Internal Bleeding in Guppy

HI everyone, been a while since I've asked any questions here (a good thing, since nothing has happened since my last post!)

But now I have a confession to make: I may have accidentally dropped one of my guppies on a hardwood floor from about 4 feet off the ground (tank level). What's worse is she was losing weight rapidly and unable to keep up with the others when it came to feeding time, so the whole reason I dropped her was because I had netted her to target feed and somehow lost track of the handle and flipped her onto the ground (I was tired). I immediately scooped her back up and put her in the tank. The first day she appeared to recover fully and was swimming around just like her old self.

Over the next couple days I discovered a red patch on her tail--it's along her spine, not bleeding in blotches at scale level like with septicemia so I'm pretty sure it's from being dropped...
The bleeding has spread towards her head, and there is now a red patch near her gills and her entire spine is now red (she's a very pale guppy with a very see-through body).

As of this morning she seems to have lost some function on the left side of her body--she was laying on the bottom of the tank and I thought I'd have to net her out but she was still moving her fins...when I came back with the net she was swimming with the others at the top of the tank, struggling to keep up and appearing a bit stiff in her swimming motion. Her left fin was also not able to move quite as much as her right fin. Her spine does appear a little bit crooked now and she's struggling to keep her tail fanned out as much as before.

There is no blood streaking along her fins anywhere, she still eats very well, but she hasn't gained back her round tummy since I started target feeding her (as mentioned earlier in this post). This leads me to thinking her thinning out was old age, and the bleeding is internal bleeding caused by my dropping her (I honestly feel so terrible about it... )

Does anyone have any ideas for how to stop the internal bleeding? I've tried a google search with different search terms and haven't found anything..all of it says it's septicemia which I'm 90% sure it's not.

Also tank parameters:
Planted 10 gallon tank (very full of plants)
Temperature 78 degrees F
Ammonia = 0
Nitrite = 0
Nitrate = around 30
I am using a test kit, not test strips

In the tank are 3 adult guppies, 2 female 1 male (the male is not particularly interested in either female)
5 guppy fry (2 months old)
And some pink ramshorn snails (no idea how many)

Thank you for any help I might be able to get!!

I know the photos make it look really pale but honestly the red is pretty strong...anywhere you see a pinkish tint along her body (not her tail, she is red to begin with) is where there's bleeding.

 

Severe internal parasites. Do you keep chiclids? Might want to cull this one, and pick up some metronidazole to dose in their food and water.
Red streaks is bacterial hemmoragic sepicima, a secondary infection from the parasites moving out of its stomach and into other parts of the fish. Looks too far gone to save, but you can keep the others, and other fish in the future, healthy with metronidazole. It can be mixed with any other antibiotic, so you can 1-2 kill the parasites (the antibiotic metro is used off label as a paracide) and stop the secondary infection (it dosent really kill the type of bacteria that make fish sick, lol) with another antibiotic, such as Kanamycin, Oxytetracycline, minocycline, or Triple SulfaOk to mix the two, metro is well-tolerated and can be mixed.
DO NOT ever mix ANY antibiotic with an ick medication such as malachite green tho. If they devolp ick as well (secondary infections can result in a lot of things popping up suddenly, happened to me just recently) you are safe to use copper based ick meds, with antibiotics.
Just be careful on the dose of those. Copper is a poision and you have to be conservative on the dose, should you ever need to.I know, fun stuff. Good luck

 

Severe internal parasites. Do you keep chiclids? Might want to cull this one, and pick up some metronidazole to dose in their food and water.
Red streaks is bacterial hemmoragic sepicima, a secondary infection from the parasites moving out of its stomach and into other parts of the fish. Looks too far gone to save, but you can keep the others, and other fish in the future, healthy with metronidazole. It can be mixed with any other antibiotic, so you can 1-2 kill the parasites (the antibiotic metro is used off label as a paracide) and stop the secondary infection (it dosent really kill the type of bacteria that make fish sick, lol) with another antibiotic, such as Kanamycin, Oxytetracycline, minocycline, or Triple SulfaOk to mix the two, metro is well-tolerated and can be mixed.
DO NOT ever mix ANY antibiotic with an ick medication such as malachite green tho. If they devolp ick as well (secondary infections can result in a lot of things popping up suddenly, happened to me just recently) you are safe to use copper based ick meds, with antibiotics.
Just be careful on the dose of those. Copper is a poision and you have to be conservative on the dose, should you ever need to.I know, fun stuff. Good luck

Hey, thanks for the reply, though I'm quite certain it isn't internal parasites. She's been like that for a week, with the redness spreading along her spine, and has NO red streaks in her fins or along her body (as I mentioned in my post). No cichlids, as my post mentions, the tank only has guppies and ramshorn snails. No other fish have been affected, all the others are very healthy.

I'd also like to mention that I have dealt with ich before and have successfully treated it with nothing but increased temperature and water changes, so if that ever pops up again I'll be doing that the same way. I cannot use copper based meds due to the inverts in my tank--just so you know! Snails are not a fan of copper, and yes I am fully aware that copper is a poison thank you.

I was asking if anyone had experience treating internal bleeding from bruising/injuries, not from a bacterial infection or parasites, because the bleeding appeared 1 day after I had dropped her from about 4 feet off the ground.

 

I am experienced in all fish diseases. I'm no noob. Ive been rasing guppies for 9 years, and that is severe damage to the intestines of the fish.
Now, if you want to speculate, go ahead, I don't know what causing it. Its inside the fish, the only real way to find out would be to biopsy it. But more likely than not, your dealing with internal flagalette parasites, probably Hexima. If not, it could be fish tuberlosis, that also will make a fish skinny like this.
Its either or.
Like I said, the redness is known as "Bacterial hemmoragic septicima" blood poisiing, from bacteria leaking into the blood. The internal parasites can cause secondary bacterial infections.
Basically, I stand by my first assestment.
What makes you certain its not internal parasites?
Flat tummy, stringy poo, is usually either
1. Starving due to CHRONIC internal parasite
2. Emancipation/wasting due to mycobacterium marinum aka "fish tuberculosis"

 

I am experienced in all fish diseases. I'm no noob. Ive been rasing guppies for 9 years, and that is severe damage to the intestines of the fish.
Now, if you want to speculate, go ahead, I don't know what causing it. Its inside the fish, the only real way to find out would be to biopsy it. But more likely than not, your dealing with internal flagalette parasites, probably Hexima. If not, it could be fish tuberlosis, that also will make a fish skinny like this.
Its either or.
Like I said, the redness is known as "Bacterial hemmoragic septicima" blood poisiing, from bacteria leaking into the blood. The internal parasites can cause secondary bacterial infections.
Basically, I stand by my first assestment.
What makes you certain its not internal parasites?
Flat tummy, stringy poo, is usually either
1. Starving due to CHRONIC internal parasite
2. Emancipation/wasting due to mycobacterium marinum aka "fish tuberculosis"

I may be new, but I am also not a "noob". Please do not treat me like one, just like I have not treated you like one.

Like I said, she was fine previously and is very likely an aging guppy--her poop is completely normal, and she showed no signs of issues besides getting thinner until I accidentally dropped her. According to her previous state, before the drop, I did a google search around it it seemed that was generally what happened when a guppy got older. I have looked up fish tuberculosis before and it doesn't match her symptoms at all. While I agree that hemorrhagic septicaemia could be it, she doesn't show the typical progression of bleeding (very bright red spots appearing over time)--instead, she has a very gradual progression of redness developing along her spine, not in spots, but along the bone. She also lacks the red veins in her fins, and eats as voraciously as she always did. Her appetite never changed and the poop color never changed.
She is active during the day but rests more than usual, but eats during feeding time (twice a day, morning and evening).

Those are the reasons I stand by my hypothesis that this is an internal injury caused bleeding, and not caused by bacteria or infection.

I get it if there's no way to stop internal bleeding inside a fish. I asked because I had hoped there would be, she is one of my favorites. That being said, if there is no way to stop it, I'll just try to make her as comfortable as possible.

 

Okay, no worries.
I just did not want you to think I was some excited new person who dosent know what I'm talking about.
And if I came off as treating you like one, its because most of the people I try to help are in fact very much noobs, and they don't understand what I'm talking about half the time.
It could very well just be an aging process. They will droop their tails when they get older. But the skinny tells me its some type of gut problem. Should not be that skinny.
Stringy feces? Spit out food? (along with skinny or bloated)
These are sure signs of an internal parasite problem or tubcerlosis.
I'm just saying, and I didn't know it was getting old. Probably the problem then.

Sorry, did mean to come off as rude, or pushy, or know it all..... it just makes me angry when I go to all this trouble, and give people this wonderful information, and they think I'm nuts and they don't listen to me. Usually its kids or teenagers who will keep rambling on about something, you tell them what the problem is, then they say its something else, very matter-of factly. I guess that's just Kids/teenagers for you, they don't listen to a word, and they keep rambling on until finally, at the end of 20 posts, they come to the conclusion (on their own) that it is what you said it is in the first post. lol. Then your just like, okay kid, I give up. Its a pet-peeve of mine, didn't mean to be rude!

 

Sorry, did mean to come off as rude, or pushy, or know it all..... it just makes me angry when I go to all this trouble, and give people this wonderful information, and they think I'm nuts and they don't listen to me. Usually its kids or teenagers who will keep rambling on about something, you tell them what the problem is, then they say its something else, very matter-of factly. I guess that's just Kids/teenagers for you, they don't listen to a word, and they keep rambling on until finally, at the end of 20 posts, they come to the conclusion (on their own) that it is what you said it is in the first post. lol. Then your just like, okay kid, I give up. Its a pet-peeve of mine, didn't mean to be rude!

It's alright. I get it--it's frustrating when people don't take advice or talk back etc. I apologize if I sounded that way as well.

I'm honestly also very puzzled about how skinny she is. She didn't show signs of parasites besides the skinny--her poop is a normal color (color of her food) and she ate readily, swam with her buddies, explored the tank...just got weaker over time. The tank was treated with prazipro previously (several weeks ago), so I wonder if it missed something, or she developed some sort of gut issue not related to parasites?

Anyway..she's still hanging on. Barely. I have her in a net, suspended in the tank, because I discovered her stuck to the filter intake (but still alive) yesterday. She won't give up, and I'm heartbroken to see her struggle, all bruised and bleeding as she is. She still eats, though not very much, and only eats the food that floats straight to her face.

Thanks for trying to help me though, I really appreciate it. I'll definitely get some Maracyn/Maracyn2 in case I ever need it, but I think I'm going to let her go.

 

Ya I know the feeling. Guppies these days are just so weak. Too much imbreeding. They are easy to perish from the first disease that they are exposed too. I'm thinking about giving up on them myself.... too much dying off even if you do everything right. Getting sick of seeing my fish sick and having to put them down.
The same disease that would wipe out a guppy tank would never bother most other species of fish, they just have no natural immunity anymore.

Thinking about just keeping wild types of fish, no fancy bred stuff anymore. Less chance of disease problems. Its great to know about diseases, but who wants to deal with it all the time. Theres more to fishkeeping than just knowing about diseases. Even if you use the correct treatment, It seems these fancy bred guppies many times will still die.

Especially internal problems, seems like I can cure anything bacterial or ick or costia/velvet whatever, but internal problems are really tough. Its pretty much a death sentence once they get skinny or super bloated.

 

Yeah no kidding. Unfortunately I'm a sucker for how they look and their gorgeous patterns and colors so I'll probably stick with guppies for at least a little while. We'll see how long it takes me to get tired of dealing with sick fish!

I'm hoping that over time with enough of my own breeding, the fish might get a bit stronger against diseases. Not necessarily breeding for particular colors, just so long as they're still pretty!

Update on my little red female though: I thought I was going to euthanize her but when I let her out of the net she still tried to swim and actually managed it...for a short distance. As of today it actually looks like the bleeding has stopped--the redness has paled!! She's still extremely skinny of course, and very very weak. She can't get to the surface on her own and I netted her once this morning and once this evening to feed her--still has an appetite.
I'm not really sure what's going on with her but I've decided that so long as she has the will to live and eat, I'll leave her be and let her spend her days as she likes. Definitely sleeps and rests most of the day.
I'm not going to be terribly hopeful. Still though, I'm glad the bleeding hasn't gotten worse and actually appears better.

 

That is a good site to get kanamycin, which along with furan 2 green (can be found at Walmart as "fungus cure" for $4 dollars) should pretty much solve any bacterial issues you will have with fish.
You can tell that the hybrids are stronger, and so on and so forth provided you don't let brother breed to sister.
Ive had a tank of Half black reds get sick from Hexima, after my brother in law moved and I took his tank of chiclids and rehomed them. Surely enough, something that dosent hardly affect the chiclids is wiping out my guppies.
half black red is one of the first strains created, so I would venture to say its just dying out as there is too little genetic material that is not from the same source.
I'm all for getting a bunch of different colored guppies and letting them breed, then just keeping brother and sister separate. (like a ten gallon for the fry then males or females) as long as you do this they should be ok. You are not suppose to let siblings mate, but you can let the offspring mate with their parents.
You can also find wild guppies or endlers on aquabid. These are so much stronger and longer lived, (obviously not as pretty) but avoid "feeders" as these often carry diseases.
I guess I'm at the point myself where I'm just going back in time to do what I did in the first place which is raise mutt guppies. At least back then I had fun and lots of different colors to look at. Now I'm just bored and sick of looking at the red tail tuxeudos, ive sold to pet stores, people around the city, been successful with them, I guess I'm just getting bored with the same strain, and now their dying off.