Injured Baby Kuhli Loach?

Sorry, your BN's tummy.

 

Let's see if these work better - he wasn't keeping still, clearly none of my fish want to be photo models lol





I know the photo quality is pretty lousy, but it wouldn't let me upload the original size (which is 2.5MB), so I had to downsize (which downsizes it to the "largest" size of 455kb :-/)

and I should add he does look a tad more pinkish on the photo than he does in reality, but it's fairly close for a photo...

 

Is the skin smooth or lumpy?

 

That's the best photo I could get of my little mystery fish...

His fins are 'see-through', he has 2-3 black strips in the front part of his body, starting just at/behind the gills..

Is the skin smooth or lumpy?

looks smooth to me...

 

looks smooth to me...

All looks normal.

View attachment 127855

That's the best photo I could get of my little mystery fish...

Looks almost like a rasbora to me....What do you think guys?

 

Thank godness, Marbles is another one of my aquarium favourites (well, pretty much all of them are, really ;-D )
Hopefully my water parameters are not too off - I guess I'll find out tomorrow
Will keep you updated on those, when I'll test them - hopefully it will "only" be bruising from the gravel, and nothing worse for my little KuhlI *sigh*

 

3 KuhlI Loaches
Bronze Cory
12 Neon tetras
3 Bristlenose catfish
1 Rasbora
2 guppies
1 snail

Okay. Once she comes out again, we can think about what her disease may be, but until then, I have a new stocking plan for you.
This is what a stocking calculator had to say:
Warning: At least 5 x Rummynose Rasbora are recommended in a group.
Note: Bristlenose Pleco needs driftwood.
Suggestion: If you want to keep more than 1 Guppy, minimum recommend male to female ratio is 1:2 (M:F). You will be less likely to experience problem if you get even more females.
Warning: At least 4 x Bronze Cory are recommended in a group.
Warning: At least 5 x KuhlI Loach are recommended in a group.
Recommended temperature range: 24 - 24 C. [Display in Farenheit]
Recommended pH range: 6 - 7.5.
Recommended hardness range: 5 - 15 dH.You have plenty of aquarium filtration capacity.
Recommended water change schedule: 53% per week. (You might want to split this water change schedule to two separate 31% per week)
Your aquarium stocking level is 150%.
Your tank is overstocked. Unless you are an experienced aquarist who can meet the maintenance/biological needs of this aquarium, lower stocking levels are recommended

I'd rehome the kuhlis, or rehome the cories, plecos, and guppies and up the kuhli's/rasbora school.

 

There's no such thing as a rummynose rasbora. There are rummynose tetras and rasboras, separate species.

 

There's no such thing as a rummynose rasbora. There are rummynose tetras and rasboras, separate species.

I hadn't heard of it either, but when I was on AquaAdvisor, that came up as one of the Rasbora species.

 

Good morning guys ;-) (Sydney time)
yeah, I used that calculator yesterday, but hadn't calculated in the guppy, or the rasbora, and it was over-stocked already :-/
Well, thing is, we didn't have any luck with our guppies, started out with 4, now only have one - one by one, they died, and what really baffles me is that they're supposed to be one of the "hardiest" fish species; nothing else seems to have obvious problems, except my little Tiny, of course, which, btw, is STILL hiding :-/

I've already gotten half a heart-attack, thinking that the bigger loach stripes died - he was sticking half-way out of the driftwood (tail up,nose down), but then, when I moved the plant leaf that was hanging just over him, he swam through his little hole that he had found in that driftwood, turned around and kind of gave me an "excuse me" look..

Okay, she finally came out, but was very active, so taking photos wasn't a great success - still, maybe you can see something on them..

 

She appears extra-red. Have you received the test kit yet?

 

Going to buy it today; the first pet store I went to just now didn't have it, so I'm driving to a bigger one in an hour or so...

What I noticed today is she seems very agitated, swimming around the tank almost constantly - but maybe that's also because I hadn't noticed it before as I am waiting to get a decent photo of her...

EDIT: I also noticed that while on Sunday and Monday, she used to lie more on her side, now she's lying on her tummy (sign for bruising...?) - but again, maybe that's just wishful thinking, as it means that it would be healing, or maybe that's just because we moved the corner filer a bit more away from the wall, and she fits behind there easier now... :-/

 

Going to buy it today

Let us know what you find (just remembered it's the morning for you!!) and we'll take it from there!

 

Thanks for all your help

I know in an established aquarium is should be ammonia 0, but what would be acceptable values for the rest of the parameters for a fairly newish tank?
Also, I heard that after a water change, the ammonia can go up temporarily - is that true?

 

I joined this forum knowing NOTHING about fish. Look where I am now! I'm at the place where I can give advice to others.
This forum is amazing, and I'm happy to pass my knowledge onto you, or any other member that needs it!

I know in an established aquarium is should be ammonia 0, but what would be acceptable values for the rest of the parameters for a fairly newish tank?
Also, I heard that after a water change, the ammonia can go up temporarily - is that true?

Question #1: It depends on your tank. Some newish uncycled tanks have 5.0 ammonia!!
Question #2: Sometimes yes, sometimes no. If your tank is cycled, and your tap has little to no ammonia, then it probably wouldn't.

 

Yeah, that'll be the second thing I'll test with my new test kit - the tap water ;-) (I already tested the ph of it, nearly got a heart attack - it's so turquoise/blueish, it's almost more than the last colour on my colour chart, and that's 7.8, or 8....!)

 

Wow, what an odysee!
So, I went to the local pet/fish store, asked for the API master test kit - they didn't have that, but luckily I noted that they did have the single nitrate and nitrite test kits; called up the fish store in the neighbouring suburb, they are supposed to get that master test kit sometime next week; so, I drove to the city, and stopped by a third pet store along the way, which didn't have ANY Nitrite/Nitrate nor ammonia test kits! Called up two more pet stores, which didn't have that master kit either - so, back to square one, or rather - fish store one!
To cut a long story short - I got Nitrite and Nitrate test kits, and have tested all my parameters, with the following results:

ph: 6.9-7.0 (it's lighter/more green-yellowish than 7.0, but darker than 6.6, so, somewhere in between, hence my 6.9 estimate)
ammonia: under 0.5ppm, bu not 0 - my colour chart only gives me the options of 0.0 mg/l, or 0.5mg/l, so, after looking at it, I'd say 0.4ppm
Nitrate NO3: 5ppm
Nitrite NO2: 0ppm

I have attached the photos, although the colour for ammonia looks a tad darker on the photo than it did in reality...










BTW: Nitrite and Nitrate have been tested with API Liquid test kits, ph and ammonia with AquaOne liquid test kits (so, none with those test stripes)

Now, we did a 50% water change yesterday, so it has been pretty much a day (i.e. about 22 hours) between the water change, and these tests...

 

In the last photos you posted, that red definitely should not be there. I'm still hoping it's just bruising from the substrate.

With your water params, as long as you have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and 0-40 nitrates, your tank can be considered healthy. The lower the nitrates, the better the water conditions. You would only have 0 in a heavily planted tank.

You can't order the test kit on-line?

 

Yes, I did that, too, today, but I also wanted to test the parameters today (delivery is 3-5 business days), to let you guys know, and get in there early if something was really greatly off the hook; the only thing that does worry me are the ammonia levels, which is not 0.0, but just under 0.5ppm...

In the last photos you posted, that red definitely should not be there. I'm still hoping it's just bruising from the substrate.

Yeah, I know - thing is, this morning she was all over the tank, when I came home this afternoon, she was nowhere to be seen again; however, she did have like 3 hours power swimming through the tank in the morning, and they are more nocturnal, right?
When she took her 1 minute breaks from swimming this morning, she did lie on her tummy, whereas before she was only lying on her side, so yes, I do hope it's only bruising;
I also bought sand substrate, and will exchange that tomorrow, too...

 

Yeah, I know - thing is, this morning she was all over the tank, when I came home this afternoon, she was nowhere to be seen again; however, she did have like 3 hours power swimming through the tank in the morning, and they are more nocturnal, right?
When she took her 1 minute breaks from swimming this morning, she did lie on her tummy, whereas before she was only lying on her side, so yes, I do hope it's only bruising;
I also bought sand substrate, and will exchange that tomorrow, too...

Great!!
Hopefully that will fix her issue.

 

I hope so; haven't seen her this morning yet, but only had time for a quick look, as I had to leave for work...
We'll do another water change tonight, because of the ammonia, and also change substrate;
After a water change, how long do I have to wait to get reliable test results?
I mean, since I exchange 50% of the water, the Ns and ammonia will go down (fresh water comes in), so from what timeframe after that can I be sure that the result of eg 0ppm Nitrite is indeed 0ppm and I have a working nitrogen cycle?

 

This may be a bit off topic, but the BN plecos should be in at least a 30 gallon (113.5L) tank (your tank is about 17 gallons) and there should really be one pleco of any kind per tank, as they can be aggressive to other plecos when trying to find a hiding spot.



Also, loaches eat snails. Any type of snail, including nerites and mystery.

 

I hope so; haven't seen her this morning yet, but only had time for a quick look, as I had to leave for work...
We'll do another water change tonight, because of the ammonia, and also change substrate;
After a water change, how long do I have to wait to get reliable test results?
I mean, since I exchange 50% of the water, the Ns and ammonia will go down (fresh water comes in), so from what timeframe after that can I be sure that the result of eg 0ppm Nitrite is indeed 0ppm and I have a working nitrogen cycle?

It depends on your tap, and if your tank is cycled. I can't honestly tell you until you test your tap. Sorry!!
However, in your tank (generally) you'll be able to gather accurate results within a day or so if you're using Prime.

 

This may be a bit off topic, but the BN plecos should be in at least a 30 gallon (113.5L) tank (your tank is about 17 gallons) and there should really be one pleco of any kind per tank, as they can be aggressive to other plecos when trying to find a hiding spot.



Also, loaches eat snails. Any type of snail, including nerites and mystery.

Yeah, I already got that told, and we are already looking to rehome the plecos (first and last time listenting to a LFS!)
I doubt my loaches eat my snail, as it's about tripple the size of them..

It depends on your tap, and if your tank is cycled. I can't honestly tell you until you test your tap. Sorry!!
However, in your tank (generally) you'll be able to gather accurate results within a day or so if you're using Prime.

I'm not using Prime - until yet! I'll order it when I get home, the LFS only had the normal "AquaOne water conditioner";
I tested my tap water with the ammonia yesterday, it's pretty much 0.00pm (or very, very close to)... I'll do all the tests again tonight when I get home, and test my tap water for the two Ns as well...

BTW - apparently you could hold plecos, if you get them as youngsters, so they grow up together (found that in one of the online articles on the species), I'll add the link to that site later...


That was one of the things we used as advice (see tank requirements);
I can't find the site right now about keeping more than 1, as I've "bookmarked" it on my other laptop, but I'll post that link later...

Needless to say, from now onwards the only advice in regards to stocking and tank sizes and fish species that I will rely on is this forum ;-)

It depends on your tap, and if your tank is cycled. I can't honestly tell you until you test your tap. Sorry!!
However, in your tank (generally) you'll be able to gather accurate results within a day or so if you're using Prime.

So, second day after the water change, the aquarium water parameters are:
ph: 6.9-7.0 (under 7.0, but over 6.6 on the colour chart)
Nitrite: 0.0ppm
Nitrate:5ppm
Ammonia: under 0.5ppm - seems like it's going down, looks a bit lighter than yesterday; my colour scale only shows 0.0ppm, and then 0.5ppm; it's a bit lighter than 0.5ppm, probably 0.4ppm...
Water temp: 26-27'C

I also tested my tap water:
ph: through the roof, 7.8 or higher
Nitrite: 0.0ppm
Nitrate: 0ppm
ammonia: not exactly colour-less, but almost, so I'd estimate it to 0.1ppm, probably..

Does this help?
Tiny is still in hiding, but that's something I'm trying to getting used to, although it still worries me - the last time she went into hiding, we didn't see her for a week, then she came out with those injuries; I mean, is it possible they get themselves stuck in the driftwood?

The other tow, larger, Kuhils are always out and about, but not as crazily active as Tiny was yesterday (although Purples does get his crazy 5 minutes once-a-day, where he zoomed through the aquarium and tends to bump into every fish that's in his way...)

Oh, and here was one of the other links we looked at:

we judged we could get BNs, due to
a) The LFS had heaps of them in a tank together
b) as quite a few pages said they'd be easy to breed (not that we planned on doing that), we just assumed you could hold more than one...
Well, learnt my lesson in that regards! Ain't gonna make those kind of assumptions again...

When I see Tiny, I'll try to get a few more photos off her, and keep you updated...

 

Thanks! You are a very helpful responder!
Your params are rather good, actually. (I was worried they'd be off the charts!)
Does your local store sell Prime? That is the most important tool for fixing water quality issues, and doing safe water changes.

 

Yeah, so was I - to be honest, I was nearly as exited when I tested them all yesterday as I'm usually just when sitting an exam lol
I really doubt they have Prime, so I just ordered it online and should get it within the next few days (I'll nevertheless check tomorrow, I guess you can never have enough of it ;-) )
That also gives me opportunity to ask if they'd buy 2 of the BNs off us and a few of the other fish (for the third, we are actually looking into bigger tank sizes, so hopefully I can rehome it very, very soon ;-) )

As hard as it will be to give them back, that's the best for the Fishies, after all, and that's what counts most

 

As hard as it will be to give them back, that's the best for the Fishies, after all, and that's what counts most

I have grappled with this before. You are totally doing the right thing, hard as it may be.

 

Many of us have been in your shoes. It's painful but it's part of the learning process.

I'm using a water conditioner and ph down,

You might want to reconsider using pH Down. It usually causes more problems than it helps. Usually, your stock will acclimate to a higher pH than they typically require. Using a product that affects the pH tends to make it fluctuate and that's what your fish would have trouble with.

 

You might want to reconsider using pH Down. It usually causes more problems than it helps. Usually, your stock will acclimate to a higher pH than they typically require. Using a product that affects the pH tends to make it fluctuate and that's what your fish would have trouble with.

Oh really? Wow, so much to learn, so many unnecessary products on the market that cause problems...
Our tap water is highly alkaline though (7.8-8, or probably even higher - colour chart only goes to 7.8)...

Also, I thought the lower the ph, the more of the "less toxic" ammonium (I think it's NH4?) you get, instead of the ammonia?

 

It looks like the substrate has a slightly rough texture to it; that could be part of the problem. The other suggestions are also very plausible. Hopefully this will get resolved soon. I also find that my kuhlI loach gets more pale when stressed. It's hard to tell, but the color looks a tad dull on my screen. If you don't have the room for more kuhlis, java loaches or brown/black kuhlis may be an option. My kuhlis have never had a problem shoaling with my java loaches. Good luck!

EDIT:

I agree that you should try and remove the driftwood. Maybe add a few of those cichlid stone caves. My loaches absolutely love them. They are completely smooth on the inside. I know amazon has them for a decent price.

 

So, my little Tiny still hasn't shown herself since Tuesday; we're doing another water change tomorrow again, hopefully she doesn't hide in the driftwood again, and I can check up on her...
Fingers crossed, I'll keep you updated; tested the water parameters again today, similar to yesterday, no change there, and I should get prime soon delivered within the next few days too

It looks like the substrate has a slightly rough texture to it; that could be part of the problem. The other suggestions are also very plausible. Hopefully this will get resolved soon. I also find that my kuhlI loach gets more pale when stressed. It's hard to tell, but the color looks a tad dull on my screen. If you don't have the room for more kuhlis, java loaches or brown/black kuhlis may be an option. My kuhlis have never had a problem shoaling with my java loaches. Good luck!

Thanks!
Yeah, swapping to sand substrate
As for increasing the shoal - we're checking if the lfs buys the BNs and a few of the other fish off us (like the black neons and such), and then increasing the KuhlI numbers to 5-6 (else, it's gonna be an early Christmas pressie of a larger tank ;-) )...

 

So, my little Tiny still hasn't shown herself since Tuesday; we're doing another water change tomorrow again, hopefully she doesn't hide in the driftwood again, and I can check up on her...
Fingers crossed, I'll keep you updated; tested the water parameters again today, similar to yesterday, no change there, and I should get prime soon delivered within the next few days too



Thanks!
Yeah, swapping to sand substrate
As for increasing the shoal - we're checking if the lfs buys the BNs and a few of the other fish off us (like the black neons and such), and then increasing the KuhlI numbers to 5-6 (else, it's gonna be an early Christmas pressie of a larger tank ;-) )...

Why don't you remove the driftwood for a bit? If it hurt her

 

Why don't you remove the driftwood for a bit? If it hurt her

It is worth a try.

 

Why don't you remove the driftwood for a bit? If it hurt her

Lol, that sounds like a great idea, I was already contemplating taking the driftwood out and sawing it into smaller pieces (it's one huge piece) so the BNs can still enjoy it without posing any danger to her;
The only problem is: she is hiding IN it, and the last time she was hiding, we lifted it up very very carefully and had a look into all the different holes while still keeping the entire thing underwater, but couldn't see her, so the suspicion is that the little loach is hiding somewhere "deep" inside it, and I can't think of a way of luring or coaxing her out... We will do another water change today, and our hope is that until then, the little tyke comes out, but if we lift it up and we can't find her (and I doubt she can actually bury herself completely into the gravel), I can't really remove it out of the water, as then it's likely she's again somewhere in there, right...?

I mean, when we clean the gravel and do the water change, I'll also carefully "skim" through the gravel, in case she did bury herself in there, just to entirely rule out this option, but my hopes that she didn't go INTO the bloody driftwood are pretty slI'm ATM :-(

Any suggestion on how to lure a cheeky juvenile loach out of her hiding? :-S

 

EDIT:

I agree that you should try and remove the driftwood. Maybe add a few of those cichlid stone caves. My loaches absolutely love them. They are completely smooth on the inside. I know amazon has them for a decent price.

Thanks for that tip, I'll look into that!
We have ordered some "pipe" type things from the LFS too, as they're got those in their aquariums and the loaches seemed to love those, but they haven't arrived yet *sigh* if you wanna get something ordered, you'd better order it yourself than relying on LFS, I suppose (lucky I ordered the prime myself straight away - can't wait till that comes!)

 

Thanks for that tip, I'll look into that!
We have ordered some "pipe" type things from the LFS too, as they're got those in their aquariums and the loaches seemed to love those, but they haven't arrived yet *sigh* if you wanna get something ordered, you'd better order it yourself than relying on LFS, I suppose (lucky I ordered the prime myself straight away - can't wait till that comes!)

Prime is great. Any update pics?

 

You can actually use pieces of pvc pipe, as long as you sand down the edges before you put it in.

I must've missed something. How did Tiny hurt himself on the driftwood?

 

You can actually use pieces of pvc pipe, as long as you sand down the edges before you put it in.

I must've missed something. How did Tiny hurt himself on the driftwood?

Thanks for that tip, but we already went to the LFS today - and they finally got those tubes/pipes, so we bought one ;-)
It (there are 6, stacked together (so, 3 bottom, 2 middle, one top)) was inhabited straight away by Purples (the black Kuhli).

I'm not entirely sure how Tiny injured him/herself; what I noticed that we did a water change a couple of weeks ago, during which I had to lift up the log (did that very carefully, of course, and kept it in the water all the time) and I saw Purples peeking out at one end, and as we didn't see Tiny in the aquarium, we assumed she was, like Purples, somewhere inside the many holes of that log;
after we were done cleaning, Purples swam out, looking and behaving normal, as always (looking quite relaxed, actually). But we didn't see Tiny for a week, already thinking she somehow had perished, until that Sunday when I walked past the tank and saw something zooming past it, had a closer look, and saw her, with those "injuries" - so, our suspicion (my fiancé's and mine) is that somehow she got stuck inside the driftwood (like, went in too deep or so), and then had to squish herself out again...
But that's just a suspicion...

EDIT: prior to that particular water change, while she did keep hidden too, we saw her fin and "backside" wagging out of a hole in the driftwood every now and then, then turning around, having a quick peek at us, and turning around again and hiding (with her backside still out of the hole though)

 

Prime is great. Any update pics?

Well, we did swap the substrate, from gravel to sand, and while fishing all the fish out(btw - LindaB, thanks for your step-by-step guide, helped a lot!!), we saw her again zooming past;
however, as soon as she finally was back in the tank she disappeared again somewhere, so I couldn't take any pics of her...
I didn't want to stress her and the other fish out, by removing everything in the bucket they had been in during the substrate swap, by removing all their "protection" (i.e. plants and ornament), to try and take photos of her, as the whole procedure was probably stressful enough for them already...

BUT - she is alive, and very able of zooming around quickly, so again, here's to hoping it's just bruising, and will heal overtime...

But I took a few pics afterwards of the tank








Re stocking (doesn't really belong in this thread, but I thought I'd give an update too):
we were able to take back 2 of the BNs (leaving only Marbles), and the black Neon Tetras;
however, they didn't have any other Kuhlis, to "upgrade" the family numbers, nor Corys, so hopefully they'll get them soon; still looking for a bigger tank...

 

Tank is looking good ! Those are just neon tetras, not black neon, btw. Getting a few more kuhli's would be real good, they are very social and do better in groups, I have 13 of them.