Injured Baby Kuhli Loach?

Hello everybody,

We just started keeping tropical fish, no previous experience or so, and have been busily going through different forums for various tips on keeping freshwater fish ;-)

However, I have a question in regards to one of my KuhlI Loaches:
Last week, we cleaned the tank, and since then haven't seen our smallest KuhlI Loach for like a week - I kinda feared that it might have gotten stuck in the driftwood (tank with live plants and a pretty big driftwood piece) while we were cleaning the tank (like, that it got scared, went too far into the driftwood holes, and could not get out anymore, and had died);
Yesterday I looked into the tank and all of a sudden, I saw the tiny guy zooming past - so, still alive
However, I wasn't happy for too long, as I think it might be quite hurt - it looks like it's got an internal injury, as the skin is pretty much "see-through", but I am not sure if that is typical for KuhlI Loach babies (it's about half the size of my thumb)?

I have attached an of it...

It shares the tank (65L) with:

2 other KuhlI Loaches, but both bigger
Bronze Cory
10 Neon Tetras and 2 black tetras
3 Bristlenose catfish
1 little other fish (I'm not sure what species)
2 guppies
1 snail

Nothing that seems aggressive against any of the other fish, they all get along really well...

If someone knows if that looks normal for a baby kuhlI loach, or if it's really badly hurt, that'd be great!
Thanks!




Oh, and Ph is stable at 7.0, we've had the tank since about 5 weeks now...
I also added AAA plus blocks against any ammonia (am paranoid with getting it perfect for those little guys), and tested and also brought a water sample to the LFS, and they said it'd be fine, too...

 

Hello everybody,

We just started keeping tropical fish, no previous experience or so, and have been busily going through different forums for various tips on keeping freshwater fish ;-)

However, I have a question in regards to one of my KuhlI Loaches:
Last week, we cleaned the tank, and since then haven't seen our smallest KuhlI Loach for like a week - I kinda feared that it might have gotten stuck in the driftwood (tank with live plants and a pretty big driftwood piece) while we were cleaning the tank (like, that it got scared, went too far into the driftwood holes, and could not get out anymore, and had died);
Yesterday I looked into the tank and all of a sudden, I saw the tiny guy zooming past - so, still alive
However, I wasn't happy for too long, as I think it might be quite hurt - it looks like it's got an internal injury, as the skin is pretty much "see-through", but I am not sure if that is typical for KuhlI Loach babies (it's about half the size of my thumb)?

I have attached an of it...

It shares the tank (65L) with:

2 other KuhlI Loaches, but both bigger
Bronze Cory
10 Neon Tetras and 2 black tetras
3 Bristlenose catfish
1 little other fish (I'm not sure what species)
2 guppies
1 snail

Nothing that seems aggressive against any of the other fish, they all get along really well...

If someone knows if that looks normal for a baby kuhlI loach, or if it's really badly hurt, that'd be great!
Thanks!

View attachment 127772

Oh, and Ph is stable at 7.0, we've had the tank since about 5 weeks now...
I also added AAA plus blocks against any ammonia (am paranoid with getting it perfect for those little guys), and tested and also brought a water sample to the LFS, and they said it'd be fine, too...

Welcome to the forum!!
Though it's great you tested your water, uneducated pet store employees plus inaccurate test strips equal inaccurate readiings. Therefore, I'd recommend getting an API Master Test Kit. Slightly pricey, but well worth the expense.
On to stocking.

3 KuhlI Loaches- They seem to be good.
Bronze Cory- Cories belong in schools of at least 5.
10 Neon tetras- Good.
2 black tetras- I'd really like to see a picture.
3 Bristlenose catfish-Plecos have a HUGE bioload.
Little Other Fish-Picture please!
Guppies-Good.
Get back to me on the stocking, please, and we'll see what those tetras and other fish are.
And again, welcome!!

 

Your baby kuhlI most likely bruised himself on the gravel substrate. Kuhlis really do best with sand as they are constantly digging and scavenging. Is there any way you can change the substrate out?

Kuhlis also require a much larger group, at least 6. I have over a dozen. The more you have, the safer they feel and the more of their insane kuhlI behavior you're able to witness.

If you could please post photos of the fish that you are unable to identify by species name, we can help with that and assist with appropriate stocking.

Definitely get yourself an API master kit. It's well worth the $18 you'll spend for it. We need to know accurate numbers for your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Don't let the store just tell you "fine". That's just a lie, or they're using strips, which are inaccurate.

Welcome to the forum!

 

Get a picture of the fish and get that kuhlI shoal up to 6. I just did that, now my kuhlI loaches are out 100% of the time!!!

It looks normal to me.

 

If you zoom in on the picture, you can see the red on this juvenile. That is not normal.

 

If the OP would post some more pictures, I'm sure we could offer more advice.

If the OP would post some more pictures, I'm sure we could offer more advice.
Lynda: I see the red. It almost looks like something along the lines of internal bleeding?

 

Or it could be abrasions. Not sure. Could also be ammonia poisoning.

 

Or it could be abrasions. Not sure. Could also be ammonia poisoning.

Or maybe infection from injury?

 

Don't know. Proper readings would tell us more.

 

Oh my I just got on my computer and not my phone, that is NOT normal.

Thanks for pointing it out Lynda.
Abrasions, internal bleeding, we just need a bit more info. Unfortunately, the OP is offline.

 

Hello again,
Thanks for those quick responses.
I'm off to work now, more photos will follow tonight;
When we got the Bronze Cory, we asked the store assistant if they're a schooling fish, her comment was "oh, they can be held alone" - yeah, after reading through a few forums, I noticed that myself, but some ppl seemed to hold only 1, too, and those seemed to be ok;
Ours is pretty active, and at the moment, I don't want over-stock the new tank either, so those will just have to wait;
Re KuhlI numbers, there seems to be 2 thoughts here too ;-)
I've got a ph test, and purchased an "Aqua One ammonia NH3 test kit", too, but the color scheme that comes with it is: 0.0mg/l, 0.5mg/l, 1.0mg/l and then 5mg/l - however, from reading things, the way I understand is that 0.5mg/l would already kill everything? So why then the rest of the scale??
But I'll go looking for a different (liquid) test kit, that also tests nitride & co, too - any recommendations? Not sure I trust that fish store anymore :-/
For changing the substrate - I'll look into that

 

API Master Kit (liquid). You can test ammonia, nitrites, nitrates and pH with this one kit.

My kuhlI recommendations come from about 10 years of keeping this species.

 

Hello again,
Thanks for those quick responses.
I'm off to work now, more photos will follow tonight;
When we got the Bronze Cory, we asked the store assistant if they're a schooling fish, her comment was "oh, they can be held alone" - yeah, after reading through a few forums, I noticed that myself, but some ppl seemed to hold only 1, too, and those seemed to be ok;
Ours is pretty active, and at the moment, I don't want over-stock the new tank either, so those will just have to wait;
Re KuhlI numbers, there seems to be 2 thoughts here too ;-)
I've got a ph test, and purchased an "Aqua One ammonia NH3 test kit", too, but the color scheme that comes with it is: 0.0mg/l, 0.5mg/l, 1.0mg/l and then 5mg/l - however, from reading things, the way I understand is that 0.5mg/l would already kill everything? So why then the rest of the scale??
But I'll go looking for a different (liquid) test kit, that also tests nitride & co, too - any recommendations? Not sure I trust that fish store anymore :-/
For changing the substrate - I'll look into that

I'm sorry you are confused about school numbers...but both the loaches and the cory MUST be in schools of 5 or more. MUST. LFSs tend to be incorrect. They are schooling/shoaling fish and need company. 10 years of fish keeping, 5 years I kept a solitary kuhli. I just got 5 more and guess what? he's so happy he became suddenly diurnal!

I don't quite get what you mean with the test kit? But in regards to changing it, You should get the API master kit. It is fabulous.

If you are worried about over stocking, rehome your BN plecos (such a big bioload and too big for a 65 liter, I believe plus being a bit territorial), get a picture of the unknown fish, more "black tetras" and more kuhlis, and more cories.

 

Yeah, something is definitely not right in that aquarium - we just lost our other male guppy, so now only have one female guppy left; I'll get that API test tomorrow (our fish shop closes at 5, and I've got to work till then) - I almost suspect ammonia poisoning, to be honest - we'll do a 50% water change when I get home tonight; I added AAA plus blocks against ammonia too - anyone experience with that?
I know that plecos are large on producing waste ;-) which is why we've only got 3, and 3 filters in that 65l tank: one that came with the aquarium, it's one that hangs "outside", then one sponge filter and then another inside gravel filter (both the sponge & the gravel have been filled with those greyish stones against ammonia, the outside one has the carbon in it)

 

I know that plecos are large on producing waste ;-) which is why we've only got 3, and 3 filters in that 65l tank:

Ok but BN plecos are too big for a 65l tank. I would have two in a 30 US gallon tank as a MINIMUM. Three is more for like 55 gallons. They can be big and some report them to be territorial. I have 1 in my 55 gallon, wouldn't keep very many more.

 

Oh, sorry, I've got 2 test kits, both from "Aqua one";
One for the ph, and one that tests "Ammonia (NH3)"; both are liquid test kits, and the color range of the ammonia kit is a bit weird (like, where I would have expected 0.00, 0.01, 0.02 and 0.05 as a max, it goes up to 10mg/l ); anyway, I'll get a different one, that's that problem solved ;-)
With my filtration (see other post), do you think having :
3 bristlenoses
10 + 2 tetras
That one mystery fish (photo will come tonight)
1 guppy
Would be over-stocked if I added more kuhlis & Corys?

Oh, bummer!
I was judging by the amount of BNs the fish store keep in their tank all the time...
Hm, sounds like a second tank is in order, I'd say...

 

Typically, when you use AAA plus blocks or any other product that supposed to get rid of something like ammonia, it backfires and kills the tank. It almost always ends in disaster. I wouldn't use any of that garbage anymore. With proper stocking, you can have a healthy tank without it.

 

So, assuming there is ammonia poising in the tank (can only test properly once I get that master test kit, tomorrow), will temporarily a 50% water change help, and chucking out those AAA blocks? I know that will only be a short term solution, until we get a second tank, but would that work for the next couple of days as short term remedy? How often would you then recommend a water change, under those conditions?

I used to keep guinea pigs as a kid, they seemed a lot easier to care for lol: keep them in groups, feed them, clean them, cuddle them and if they're sick, there's the vet...

 

You should be doing 50% water changes per day, and really dig into that gravel, too, to remove any debris stuck there.

Check your filter housing and media to see if it's clogged for some reason and not filtering to its full capacity. If it's clogged, rinse everything out in used tank water.

Dump the AAA blocks. They're a waste of money.

Fishkeeping is easy once you get the first few disasters under your belt.

 

There are fish vets too! Long Island Fish Hospital, to name one!
A water change would help, unless your tap has ammonia. Therefore you need Prime.

 

I'm using a water conditioner and ph down, for our tap water, as that's ridiculously alkaline (like, ph 8 or so) - I think it's both from API...
Ok, will do those 50% daily water changes, and clean out that one filter that might be clocked (I looked at the other two this morning when looking at the fish, they seemed fine, but I'll check all 3 again tonight, to be sure);
Uhm, stupid question now, but - coming back to the KuhlI - my first suspicion was also internal bleeding; but it's swimming around the aquarium ok, pretty much similar to the two "grown ups" - wouldn't internal bleeding impact it more?
And - sticking with questions - I read that symptoms of ammonia poising are red gills; does any one have any pics, especially picks of Cory's, or tetras, so that I can compare if they've already been that badly affected?
I tried researching online for pics, but couldn't find anything proper;
I also tried taking pics of my fish, but they're really fast whenever I try taking a decent photo...
But I'll try to get more tonight, hopefully they'll be still...

 

What color are your tetras?

 

Let's see of that works, as I had one on my mobile that I took yesterday ;-)

Btw - I was about to start another thread, but I can just ask quickly now - does that one neon have dropsy?
I know it's symptoms are connected with words like "protruding scales" and "cone-pine like", but I wasn't sure...?

I tried finding that guy this morning, but they all seemed "normal/slim" again..?

Hm, mobile upload doesn't seem great, I'll try it again tonight from my laptop...

 

Thanks! Your tank is really pretty!
It doesn't look like dropsy, nor pregnancy. Hmmm.

 

Thanks
I really enjoy sitting in front of it, much better than any tv program, each fish really has their own personality (except the tetras, I can't tell them apart lol);
In terms of colour - like, when looking at them from the side-view - like in the photo - their gills look normal, but when I look from underneath them (like kneeling down in front of the tank, they swimming above so I can see their bellies), and they "breath", when the gills "open up" they do look pinkish/reddish? Is that normal? :-S

 

I'm glad you're considering the information that these wonderful people are giving you, it will help alot. And more tanks will soon be at the top of your wishlists very soon
Just try to get your stocking and water in order and you'll enjoy the tank so much more.

 

Of course - what'd be the point otherwise of joining and asking questions? ;-)
I just can't stand it if people get really nasty in forums, because everybody can make mistakes ;-)
But yeah, I already learnt quite a bit, especially - never trust a lfs, and better research the fish you're interested in getting YOURSELF, instead of relying on lfs info

 

hehe well some people refuse to accept information because they aren't as devoted to keeping fish, which is a shame as they usually go on with badly setup tanks. In the end it's their decisions anyways

 

Anyway, I'll get that master test kit, will test the water, and hopefully we can figure out what's wrong with my little Tiny (yeah, I know, "inventive" name for my baby Kuhli, but "Stripes" was already taken ) - I just hope it's something curable, she's one of the aquarium favorites;
Internal bleeding would be really really bad, but then - probably just my hoping - I'd think it'd not have lasted that long with that...? (I discovered her like that Sunday afternoon, now it's Tuesday morning, and she's still zooming around the aquarium like the other 2..?)

 

Well someone said it's probably bruises from the gravel and that might be it, if so then consider changing out the gravel for sand. Otherwise maybe QT her

 

Uhm, now I know that's probably a stupid question, but - we've got like vacuum pump cleaner thingy for cleaning the aquarium, which sucks the water out - the gravel, obviously, is too heavy to be sucked up, but wouldn't the sand also be sucked up with it?
In terms of changing substrate - I assume I'd have to catch the fish, and temporarily put them into a different tank/container, while I quickly exchange the gravel with sand? (assuming I'm not simply getting another tank and set that up with sand);
And lastly - is sand ok for the bristle noses and Cory though?

 

Uhm, now I know that's probably a stupid question, but - we've got like vacuum pump cleaner thingy for cleaning the aquarium, which sucks the water out - the gravel, obviously, is too heavy to be sucked up, but wouldn't the sand also be sucked up with it?
In terms of changing substrate - I assume I'd have to catch the fish, and temporarily put them into a different tank/container, while I quickly exchange the gravel with sand? (assuming I'm not simply getting another tank and set that up with sand);
And lastly - is sand ok for the bristle noses and Cory though?

Surprisingly, it doesn't!

 

Lol that is called a gravel vac, and yes, it would suck up the sand. So to clean the poop with a sand substrate what you do is hover the vacuum above the sand about half an inch above it and the gunk will get sucked up, not much of the gunk will be beneath the sand as there isn't any space between each grain of sand for the gunk to fall into, thus all the poop will be on the substrate surface and make it easier to clean.

Also I think the other fish will be fine with the sand, as to switching it out there are many people who have done it but I don't know much about, I would think it's pretty staight forward as to simply removing the gravel and adding sand, without the fish I think although it can take awhile for sand to settle, depending on how well you rinse it.

EDIT: well GP just said it doesn't suck up sand but for me it does
I guess it depends on the suction on the vacuum

 

Lol that is called a gravel vac, and yes, it would suck up the sand.

yeah, still learning the terminology ;-P

Okay, so we just did a 50% water change about just under an hour ago, and cleaned the filters as well, now I tested again pH and Ammonia NH3, both with my AquaOne test kit (liquid test kit);
pH: 7.0; Ammonia: just under 0.5 mg/l, I have attached a photo (but there, the ammonia reading was already 5 min ago, so the water looks 'darker' (i.e. more orange) than it was when the 5 minutes waiting time for the reading were over)


unfortunately, the water change has scared my little kuhlI again, so she's back into hiding- at least she's only hiding under the driftwood this time, instead of in it (last time she was in there, I didn't see her for a week, then she came out and had those injuries... :-/)
In the meantime, while I am waiting for her to come out to post more pics as requested earlier, I have attached a photo from my orange marbled bristle nose - I was wondering if his "underside" is of normal colour? (and yes, I know that's actually a KuhlI Loach forum, but since the suspicion is ammonia poisoning, I thought while waiting for my baby, I might as well have a quick ask here...) He does look a bit brighter/reddish on the photo than in reality, but it's fairly close...



I'll buy the proper API master test kit tomorrow, and exchange the gravel with the sand to make the Kuhlis more comfy, and will keep you updated; however, I read somewhere that for newly established aquariums, it might well be that the ammonia levels are 0.2ppm/l - is that correct?

Thanks for any input

and here comes the pic for the black neon tetra that GuineaPigster asked for ;-)



oh, and yes, I am planning to exchange gravel for sand - I haven't checked out the LFS in that regards yet, but is there some "kuhlI loach special sand" that I should get? Also, how deep does the sand need to be?

We were thinking of getting an under gravel filter, then gravel, then sand on top - but I'm afraid that the kuhlis will start digging into the sand, then go in too deep, and injure themselves with the gravel again..?

 

Don't get an undergravel filter, they generally don't work a smidgen as well as the HOB (hang on back) filters or canister filters.

All of your bottom dwellers would benefit from you changing over to sand.

It's easiest if you can get all your critters out of the tank. Put them in a bucket filled with water from their tank. Pop in an airstone to keep the water oxygenated. Also, remember to keep your filter media wet, pop it into the bucket. Cover the bucket with a towel, which will help maintain temp. If you have plants, put them in, too.

Empty as much water as you can with your gravel vac. I used a little whisk broom and pan to scoop up the rest of the water as well as the substrate. Keep in mind that the gravel will have some weight to it, so use a couple of garbage bags, double-line them if necessary. Rinse off your sand before putting in the tank (use pool filter sand or sand from the lfs). Place your sand, your décor and begin to fill tank, maintaining temp that the old water was.

Surprisingly, this whole process doesn't take too long. I did it with my 75. See this thread:

 

Yeah and about sand I wouldn't worry about buying any fancy specialized sand, just get pool filter sand it's very cheap and requires less cleaning.
To rinse sand put it in a bucket(outside) and run a hose in the sand for an hour or so, the smaller sand particles(those that would cloud the water) will go over the sides of the bucket and leave you with cleaner and less clouding sand.

 

Okies, I'll do that, thanks - that'll be fun, trying to catch all those fish without freaking them out too much
Did you get a chance to look at my BNs underside?
And, as promised, I'll post the results of the API allrounder test kit tomorrow (it's 11pm here)

Btw - your tank looks amazing !!

 

Sorry I don't know anything about bn plecos

 

and here comes the pic for the black neon tetra that GuineaPigster asked for ;-)

I think you have a Black Neon Tetra. That's good.
There's an aggressive/nippy tetra that's also black, so I just wanted to make sure. What about the other fish?

Okay, so we just did a 50% water change about just under an hour ago, and cleaned the filters as well, now I tested again pH and Ammonia NH3, both with my AquaOne test kit (liquid test kit);
pH: 7.0; Ammonia: just under 0.5 mg/l, I have attached a photo (but there, the ammonia reading was already 5 min ago, so the water looks 'darker' (i.e. more orange) than it was when the 5 minutes waiting time for the reading were over)

unfortunately, the water change has scared my little kuhlI again, so she's back into hiding- at least she's only hiding under the driftwood this time, instead of in it (last time she was in there, I didn't see her for a week, then she came out and had those injuries... :-/)
In the meantime, while I am waiting for her to come out to post more pics as requested earlier, I have attached a photo from my orange marbled bristle nose - I was wondering if his "underside" is of normal colour? (and yes, I know that's actually a KuhlI Loach forum, but since the suspicion is ammonia poisoning, I thought while waiting for my baby, I might as well have a quick ask here...) He does look a bit brighter/reddish on the photo than in reality, but it's fairly close...


I'll buy the proper API master test kit tomorrow, and exchange the gravel with the sand to make the Kuhlis more comfy, and will keep you updated; however, I read somewhere that for newly established aquariums, it might well be that the ammonia levels are 0.2ppm/l - is that correct?

Thanks for any input

I can't see extremely well. Could you get a close-up? (Thanks!!)

 

I think you have a Black Neon Tetra. That's good.
There's an aggressive/nippy tetra that's also black, so I just wanted to make sure. What about the other fish?

Yeah, sorry, I was so excited I forgot to add the "neon" with the black tetras ;-)
Well, my other little fish has been very excited after the water change, so no luck so far getting a decent photo, and neither of my injured baby kuhli, so I'll try tomorrow (probably afternoon your time ;-) ) again...

I can't see extremely well. Could you get a close-up? (Thanks!!)

Of the BN, or the ammonia test?