Inherited tank - taking very long to cycle

Hi all,

My daughter and I inherited a 30 gallon tank from a neighbor. The tank was highly algae ridden and had hard water stains everywhere, and it came with four fish - three small tetras and one 8 inch Common Pleco.

We placed the fish in a temporary tank, cleaned up the main tank thoroughly, got all the algae off etc. The original filter pump was very noisy, so we got a new pump, but kept the old filter to help in cycling. We also kept the old gravel, but washed it with treated fish safe water. Finally, we put back the old (but now cleaner) gravel, the old (hopefully bacteria ridden) filter into the now clean tank, filled it with treated water, got the new filter pump running, put some new plants in, poured in an entire bottle of starter bacteria, some hide boxes, etc. And then, we put back the four fish.

Our fish store here in the Bay Area vehemently told us NOT to change water during the cycling process, so we haven't.

It's now been about 6 weeks but the ammonia levels haven't gone down at all yet. Our hypothesis is that it is because the Pleco generates a lot of waste and the bacteria levels aren't enough to neutralize it yet. Is this a valid hypothesis? Could something else be going on?

 

What are all your levels (nitrite? nitrate?)? Not doing water changes when you're not sure of all the other levels could mean (as you said) that the bacteria can't handle the high ammonia. you may have removed/cleaned so much of it that it's too much at once. And be sure to use some type of conditioner (Prime is what most people here use, I've seen)! Having high ammonia can poison your fish so you should be using something to detoxify it since you have fish in the tank.

You need to do frequent water changes to keep ammonia and nitrite levels low. This should help you. Fish In Nitrogen Cycle Simplified | Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle Forum | 414083

 

the algae was eating the ammonia,nitrite, nitrates. there's some bacteria in the gravel. so there was probably minimal bacteria in the filter media.

an algae wall in a tank does wonders. TheeLadyG 75 Gallon Tank - I've Done It, Perfect Cycle | Cleaning and Maintenance Forum | 403644 i also have a 150g stock tank with algae on the walls, and its been 0,0,0 for 2 yrs now.

6 weeks is too long, what are your water parameters right now? ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, ph

 

Welcome to Fishlore

Hi all,

My daughter and I inherited a 30 gallon tank from a neighbor. The tank was highly algae ridden and had hard water stains everywhere, and it came with four fish - three small tetras and one 8 inch Common Pleco.

I seldom ever give stocking advice but in this case I am going to recommend you find a new home for the common pleco. He really is too big for this size tank. Commons are my favorite kind of fish but my biggest tank is only 55 gallons. Even that is too small for a common. Some have been known to grow up to 2 feet long. 12 to 18 inches isn't uncommon.

We placed the fish in a temporary tank, cleaned up the main tank thoroughly, got all the algae off etc. The original filter pump was very noisy, so we got a new pump, but kept the old filter to help in cycling. We also kept the old gravel, but washed it with treated fish safe water. Finally, we put back the old (but now cleaner) gravel, the old (hopefully bacteria ridden) filter into the now clean tank, filled it with treated water, got the new filter pump running, put some new plants in, poured in an entire bottle of starter bacteria, some hide boxes, etc. And then, we put back the four fish.

It is very possible if the tank was covered in algae it was eating the ammonia thus starving the bacteria. That doesn't explain why you are still seeing ammonia after 6 weeks but we will get to that.

Our fish store here in the Bay Area vehemently told us NOT to change water during the cycling process, so we haven't.

This is one more piece of advice I totally disagree with. I can't understand why someone that should know better would tell some one not to remove the toxic ammonia build up. I highly recommend you start doing water changes. The amount you need to change each time depends on the ammonia/nitrite levels Once we have those numbers we can better advise. We want both ammonia and nitrites as close to zero as we can get them.

It's now been about 6 weeks but the ammonia levels haven't gone down at all yet. Our hypothesis is that it is because the Pleco generates a lot of waste and the bacteria levels aren't enough to neutralize it yet. Is this a valid hypothesis? Could something else be going on?

Something may be going on. After 6 weeks there should be enough bacteria to start seeing some forward progress. I will help us help you if you will give us all the numbers. Meaning Temp, pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Hopefully you have a test kit that tests for the 4 parameters. If you don't I highly recommend the API Master Freshwater Test Kit. With it you know what's going on in the tank.

 

We ordered the API master test kit so we dont have to keep running down to the aquarium store to get it tested. it just arrived! We will test and report back on the numbers tomorrow.

Thank you so much for all the above information! To be honest, I have been trying to convince my daughter to let go of the pleco, and maybe "loan" it to a friend with a larger tank. It's a work in progress but she is a conscientious kid, so I am sure she will be amenable to the idea of saying goodbye to her favorite fish in the tank soon.

 

We ordered the API master test kit so we dont have to keep running down to the aquarium store to get it tested. it just arrived! We will test and report back on the numbers tomorrow.

Thank you so much for all the above information! To be honest, I have been trying to convince my daughter to let go of the pleco, and maybe "loan" it to a friend with a larger tank. It's a work in progress but she is a conscientious kid, so I am sure she will be amenable to the idea of saying goodbye to her favorite fish in the tank soon.

Any of the dwarf plecos would suffice and they are just as cool. Bristlenose and Clown Plecos are two of my favorite species of dwarf plecos.

I had tremendous success with cycling a brand new tank in just 10 days with FritzZyme Turbo Start 700 Nitrifying Bacteria. Just be sure the water is dechlorinated, as it kills the beneficial bacteria and it also needs an ammonia source to feed on, which you already seem to have

 

Changing large amounts of water can slow down the cycling process but is sometimes necessary to keep the fish alive. Also can you post ammo, ph, nitrite, nitrate levels. High or low doesn't give enough information.

 

We ordered the API master test kit so we dont have to keep running down to the aquarium store to get it tested. it just arrived! We will test and report back on the numbers tomorrow.

It is great that you have your own test kit now. It is so much better to be able to keep a close eye on the parameters without having to run to the store to get the numbers. Read the instructions carefully, 'specially the nitrate test. There are extra steps that must be done to get an accurate reading. Although the instructions don't say so go ahead and shake all the bottles just before use. You don't have to shake as well as you do for nitrate bottle number two but it does seem we get more accurate reading if we shake all of them.

Thank you so much for all the above information! To be honest, I have been trying to convince my daughter to let go of the pleco, and maybe "loan" it to a friend with a larger tank. It's a work in progress but she is a conscientious kid, so I am sure she will be amenable to the idea of saying goodbye to her favorite fish in the tank soon.

Maybe if you let her know there are plecos that would work well and live comfortably in this size tank she would be more apt to let this one go. I can understand her loving this big guy but sometimes we do have to let them go for their own sake.

That handsome fellow over there in my avatar is Elbert my bristle nose pleco. He came to live with me after Jethro my common pleco went to live out his life in a huge pond. Elbert is full grown at about 5 1/2 inches. There are other pleco's that don't even get that big. Like Little Red, he is a super red bristle nose pleco. He is just a bit over 3 inches long. Hopefully knowing she can get a pleco better suited to this tank will make it easier for her to let this one go.

 

Wow, so many good ideas!

we measured the tank parameters today and here are the results;

1. ph: 7.2
2. Ammonia: between 4.0 and 8.0
3. Nitrites: 0
4. Nitrates: 0
Also, we planted a good number of plants all of which are doing well, in case that is pertinent info.

 

Wow, so many good ideas!

we measured the tank parameters today and here are the results;

1. ph: 7.2
2. Ammonia: between 4.0 and 8.0
3. Nitrites: 0
4. Nitrates: 0
Also, we planted a good number of plants all of which are doing well, in case that is pertinent info.

Oh my, that ammonia reading is dangerously high while doing a fish in cycle. You need to do your best to get and keep it down as low as possible. A 50% water change will cut the number in half. It is going to take several water changes to get it down to a safer level.

If you don't already have it I highly recommend you get a bottle of SeaChem Prime. It is the only thing you need to be adding to this tank along with the water changes.

 

Wow, so many good ideas!

we measured the tank parameters today and here are the results;

1. ph: 7.2
2. Ammonia: between 4.0 and 8.0
3. Nitrites: 0
4. Nitrates: 0
Also, we planted a good number of plants all of which are doing well, in case that is pertinent info.

That ammo is off the charts, double check your results if correct a very big water change [over 50%] would help keep the fish alive. I'm not sure but i think i heard that ammo that high can prevent bacteria from forming. It looks like the tank has no bacteria yet.

 

We are going to start regular water change tomorrow (wouldn't you know it, our new siphon broke and we had to order a new one...).

We plan to start with a 50% water change. What cadence of change and water condition measurement should we follow? Once or twice a week or more frequent?

Also, I don't want to stress the fish out too much with cold water OR by putting them in a temporary tank while the water warms up, so should I add lukewarm water from the tap and add SeaChem prime directly to it?

Finally, regarding the Common Pleco - my sister in law does have a pond, about 7 feet in diameter and maybe 18 inches deep. She would be open to taking the Pleco, and that way my daughter could go visit it. However, it is an outdoor pond and isn't warmed - and I hear that Plecos like it warmer than 65 degrees. We are in the SF Bay Area, where it doesn't get too cold in the winter, but it definitely gets down the 40s sometimes in winter, so I don't think that would be a good idea (unless we got a pond warmer as well). Does anyone have any ideas of what one might do with a largish Pleco? Would the fish store want it? would that be a good idea for the Pleco? Or should we keep looking for neighbors with large tanks with vacancy?

 

Have you confirmed ammo reading of 4-8? That seems too high. I cycled tanks where ammo never went above 1. Pleco would freeze in that cold water i would think. Ask your local store if they'll take him. Maybe use social media to give him away. Many have big display tanks and help out their customers. Add a little warm water during change the fish should be ok.

 

We are going to start regular water change tomorrow (wouldn't you know it, our new siphon broke and we had to order a new one...).

Water can be dipped if the siphon isn't working.

We plan to start with a 50% water change. What cadence of change and water condition measurement should we follow? Once or twice a week or more frequent?

Let your test numbers be your guide. Since the ammonia is so high right now I highly recommend you get it down quickly. Change out 50% of the water now. Do it again in a few hours. If it is still high do the same thing the next day. You want to get and keep the ammonia down as low as possible. I wouldn't want to see it any higher than .25 while doing a fish in cycle. Since there is a pleco in this tank you may have to do daily water changes to keep it down.

If you have Prime it is going to detox low levels of ammonia so will protect your fish from the little bit left after the water changes. If you don't have Prime, please get some.

Also, I don't want to stress the fish out too much with cold water OR by putting them in a temporary tank while the water warms up, so should I add lukewarm water from the tap and add SeaChem prime directly to it?

Yes, adjust the temp of the water at the tap. Add Prime to the water before pouring it in the tank. If you are refilling straight from the tap instead of with buckets add enough Prime for the full volume of the tank before refilling. Even if you are refilling with buckets you still want to add enough Prime to treat the whole tank until the cycle is complete and you are no longer seeing any ammonia or nitrites.

Don't remove the fish when doing a water change. That is unnecessary and is too stressful on the fish.

Finally, regarding the Common Pleco - my sister in law does have a pond, about 7 feet in diameter and maybe 18 inches deep. She would be open to taking the Pleco, and that way my daughter could go visit it. However, it is an outdoor pond and isn't warmed - and I hear that Plecos like it warmer than 65 degrees. We are in the SF Bay Area, where it doesn't get too cold in the winter, but it definitely gets down the 40s sometimes in winter, so I don't think that would be a good idea (unless we got a pond warmer as well). Does anyone have any ideas of what one might do with a largish Pleco? Would the fish store want it? would that be a good idea for the Pleco? Or should we keep looking for neighbors with large tanks with vacancy?

Contact your local fish stores. Quite often they will take these big guys in. Some folks have big tanks and would rather start out with a bigger pleco to begin with. The pond might work but you would need to add a heater.

 

Did two water changes today, currently levels are below 0.25. Incidentally, I also measured my tap water - it also showed 0.25. Will report back tomorrow!

I did confirm before the changes that the levels were indeed between 4.0 and 8.0.

 

Two water changes today. Ammonia level lower than before but still at 2.00.

I will continue with two changes daily for a bit..

 

Two water changes today. Ammonia level lower than before but still at 2.00.

I will continue with two changes daily for a bit..

Please refresh my memory. Which water conditioner are you using? How much are you feeding these fish?

 

I don't get it. You said after two water changes ammo went from 4-8 to .25 than went back up to 2 after 2 more water changes. I've never seen ammo build up that fast.

 

Today I have done one change so far. Ammo is at between 0.5 and 1.0.

I am using Seachem Prime.

Feeding once every two days.

I don't get it. You said after two water changes ammo went from 4-8 to .25 than went back up to 2 after 2 more water changes. I've never seen ammo build up that fast.

it’s likely I made a mistake in the testing somehow. I didn’t reconfirm those results since I was in a hurry. The other results I double checked with two readings since I am in the “learn” phase of this journey.

 

Update:

Changed water once (66%) around noon. Ammo before was 1.0, after was between 0.25 and 0.5.

I will measure tomorrow around noon. What should my next steps be if results are stable in the 0.25-0.5 zone? Reminder that even my normal tap water read 0.25 for ammonia somehow.

 

Update:

Changed water once (66%) around noon. Ammo before was 1.0, after was between 0.25 and 0.5.

I will measure tomorrow around noon. What should my next steps be if results are stable in the 0.25-0.5 zone? Reminder that even my normal tap water read 0.25 for ammonia somehow.

Are you also testing for nitrites?

 

Update:

Changed water once (66%) around noon. Ammo before was 1.0, after was between 0.25 and 0.5.

I will measure tomorrow around noon. What should my next steps be if results are stable in the 0.25-0.5 zone? Reminder that even my normal tap water read 0.25 for ammonia somehow.

Since you have a low amount of ammonia in your tap water as long as it stays below .5 in the tank.you can skip the water change that day. Dunk2 asked a very good question. Are you seeing any nitrites yet? If you do start seeing them it is going to be even more critical to keep a close eye on the numbers so you can keep ammonia plus nitrites below one. I know when my nitrites spiked I was doing them daily until after the 5th straight day of doing them and it dropped to zero.

Once they spike and then start dropping you should start seeing nitrates. Be sure you read and follow the test for nitrates exactly as instructed or you will end up getting a constant zero reading. .

 

Nitrites tested 0 last night. I haven’t tested today assuming they wouldn’t have had time to form yet since my last water change at noon today. Is that a bad assumption?

edit:
Just tested this very moment. Still 0 nitrites.

 

Nitrites tested 0 last night. I haven’t tested today assuming they wouldn’t have had time to form yet since my last water change at noon today. Is that a bad assumption?

Not a bad assumption at all. I had forgotten that you are still fairly early in the cycle. I would start checking at about 2 weeks. If you don't see them at that point run the test every other day until you start seeing them. Don't be concerned if it take 3 weeks or even a bit longer for them to show up.

 

Pre water change ammonia levels back up to 1.0

Doing a 50-60% change now to bring it lower, hopefully below 0.5.

 

I didn’t change water yesterday (Saturday) and haven’t changed it today (Sunday) but I tested both days.

It seems to have stabilized at slightly less than 1.0 (my tap water reads at 0.25).

 

7 days later, Ammonia levels still below 1.0 but no Nitrites at all. Should I try the Fritzzyme suggestion above?

 

7 days later, Ammonia levels still below 1.0 but no Nitrites at all. Should I try the Fritzzyme suggestion above?

I have read some very good words about Fritz-Zyme Turbo Start 700. If you can get it I would go ahead and use it. If you order it online make sure they handle it properly. It needs to be refrigerated so even this time of year I would want them to ship it with an ice pack.

 

Sounds like your still early in the cycle. If your not letting the ammo stay around 1 you may be stalling the cycle by water changes bringing it down too low for bacteria to form. If the bacteria for ammo never get going nitrite will never build up. I would let the ammo level sit around 1 and let the bacteria bring it down, not water changes. Bottled bacteria is an option but it may confuse you with the readings as it contains bacteria for both ammo and nitrite so you may not see a spike.

 

When doing a fish in cycle you are not going to stall the cycle by doing water changes. The fish are constantly adding ammonia so there will always enough in there to cycle the tank.

 

When i cycled my SW 240 gal tank it took months for the ammo to build up to 1.0. After it hit that number bacteria formed quickly and nitrites started rising. It appeared no bacteria formed until the ammo was high. I'm not sure if the ammo is never allowed to reach a high level if a tank will cycle. Admit its not very scientific, just my experience. I thought that tank would never cycle.

 

When i cycled my SW 240 gal tank it took months for the ammo to build up to 1.0. After it hit that number bacteria formed quickly and nitrites started rising. It appeared no bacteria formed until the ammo was high. I'm not sure if the ammo is never allowed to reach a high level if a tank will cycle. Admit its not very scientific, just my experience. I thought that tank would never cycle.

Any level of ammonia should cycle a tank, but. . . The lower the level of ammonia, the lower the bioload the tank/cycle will handle.

 

When i cycled my SW 240 gal tank it took months for the ammo to build up to 1.0. After it hit that number bacteria formed quickly and nitrites started rising. It appeared no bacteria formed until the ammo was high. I'm not sure if the ammo is never allowed to reach a high level if a tank will cycle. Admit its not very scientific, just my experience. I thought that tank would never cycle.

I wonder if salt water works different than freshwater. I have helped lots of folks with their fish in cycles. I have always advised keeping ammonia as low as possible. In just about every case the tank completes the cycle within 4 to 6 weeks. I know I kept mine down to negligible levels and my tank cycled in right at 4 weeks. It took a couple more weeks before the water was crystal clear but it was showing 0 ammonia, went through the nitrite spike and dropped to zero and the nitrates were rising at 4 weeks.

 

I wonder if salt water works different than freshwater. I have helped lots of folks with their fish in cycles. I have always advised keeping ammonia as low as possible. In just about every case the tank completes the cycle within 4 to 6 weeks. I know I kept mine down to negligible levels and my tank cycled in right at 4 weeks. It took a couple more weeks before the water was crystal clear but it was showing 0 ammonia, went through the nitrite spike and dropped to zero and the nitrates were rising at 4 weeks.

That's interesting. When you say low how low do you mean? The recommendations on fishless cycles usually state to bring ammo to 2.0 to get the cycle started. I always thought SW and FW bacteria were the same but really have no idea if that's true. The live bacteria i think doesn't specify salt or fresh does it? I just assumed it took fish waste longer to build up ammo in a bigger tank and that's why it takes them longer to cycle.

 

That's interesting. When you say low how low do you mean?

I actually like to keep it down to .25 That is often difficult to do but I really don't want to see it up to .5 before doing a water change to get it back down. Eventually the nitrites are going to spike. It is even more difficult to get and keep them down. We may still be seeing some ammonia by the time the nitrites spike. At that point i recommend trying to keep the total amount of ammonia plus nitrites below one.

The recommendations on fishless cycles usually state to bring ammo to 2.0 to get the cycle started.

For a fishless cycle I do recommend starting at 2ppm. If a tank will process that much ammonia we should have grown enough bacteria to fully stock the tank once the cycle is complete. Even if the tank was started with less ammonia than that it would still cycle. There just wouldn't be as much bacteria as there would be if we added more ammonia.

I always thought SW and FW bacteria were the same but really have no idea if that's true. The live bacteria i think doesn't specify salt or fresh does it? I just assumed it took fish waste longer to build up ammo in a bigger tank and that's why it takes them longer to cycle.

I don't know a great deal about bottled bacteria but I know one in particular, Fritz-Zyme Turbo Start has one for fresh water and one for salt water. 700 for fresh and 900 for salt.

 

I actually like to keep it down to .25 That is often difficult to do but I really don't want to see it up to .5 before doing a water change to get it back down. Eventually the nitrites are going to spike. It is even more difficult to get and keep them down. We may still be seeing some ammonia by the time the nitrites spike. At that point i recommend trying to keep the total amount of ammonia plus nitrites below one.

For a fishless cycle I do recommend starting at 2ppm. If a tank will process that much ammonia we should have grown enough bacteria to fully stock the tank once the cycle is complete. Even if the tank was started with less ammonia than that it would still cycle. There just wouldn't be as much bacteria as there would be if we added more ammonia.

I don't know a great deal about bottled bacteria but I know one in particular, Fritz-Zyme Turbo Start has one for fresh water and one for salt water. 700 for fresh and 900 for salt.

Interesting i just checked my bottle of Stability by Seachem and it says freshwater or saltwater. Strange. All this talk is making me dread ever cycling another tank. I like the Tetra method of pouring in their safe start NOT checking any water parameters and adding fish a few days later.

 

Interesting i just checked my bottle of Stability by Seachem and it says freshwater or saltwater. Strange. All this talk is making me dread ever cycling another tank. I like the Tetra method of pouring in their safe start NOT checking any water parameters and adding fish a few days later.

When or if that time comes along give me a shout out and we will "git-er-done"

 

A lot of information to digest above... some of it going over my head

Okay, I am not going to try to lower the Ammo below 1.0 via water change. Ordered FritzZyme Turbo Start 700, should arrive next week. Will report back results at that point!

 

When or if that time comes along give me a shout out and we will "git-er-done"

My 8' long 240 gal undersea habitat tank has been in a shed in backyard since Superstorm Sandy. Iv'e been dying to restart it ever since. If i can get a heater installed in a nice shed in yard i'll do it. You may regret your kind offer to help.

 

A lot of information to digest above... some of it going over my head

Okay, I am not going to try to lower the Ammo below 1.0 via water change. Ordered FritzZyme Turbo Start 700, should arrive next week. Will report back results at that point!

Sorry about that. I am afraid we got carried away

Like I said, I've read some very good wards about this product. It really should help get this tank over the hump. Just follow the directions and let it do its work.

 

Update!
Ammonia less than 0.25, practically undetectable unless I squint hard.

Nitrites - zero

Nitrates - 10.

FritzZyme Turbo Start 700 did the job!

 

Update!
Ammonia less than 0.25, practically undetectable unless I squint hard.

Nitrites - zero

Nitrates - 10.

FritzZyme Turbo Start 700 did the job!

Wooooo Fritz for the win!