Indy problems again :( Fin rot?

It seems like I get one problem solved with Indy, and then another one pops up. *sigh* I solved the issue of him suddenly constantly fighting his reflection about two weeks ago by putting a wall of artificial plants in the back. Now I’m afraid he has fin rot. He’s always had a shade of grey that seems to have become a darker grey as he’s gotten older on his back fin (as shown in the photo with him and the algae wafer), but I noticed just today that, depending on the lighting, it’s a lot darker and the texture appears to be off, like rough, and it’s not “feathered” like it used to be.

Temperature of tank is kept 77-78 degrees. I just got done with my weekly 50% water change. Indy lives with 2 African dwarf frogs and 3 mystery snails, thought there’s a divider separating them.

 

Hi,

Sorry that Indy is still having some issues! Here are a few thoughts. These suggestions are things you can do that will not affect the entire tank.

You could do some methylene blue baths. Methylene Blue will dye the ends of his fins blue, like coat it, and that may help take care of the issue. Methylene blue can be messy, and stains everything, so if you go this route, use a container that is disposable. Also, read the instructions carefully. I tried following the dip instructions, but found it to be a big waste. It's a lot to prepare for only a 10 to 15 second dip. I used this for my betta with torn fins that looked like fin rot was just starting.

You could do some aquarium salt baths. Use tank water, dissolve some aquarium salt, make sure the temp remains steady, and let him stay for 15 to 20 minutes in the bath. You can do this a couple times a day, or once a day. Follow the instructions on the aquarium salt package.

I would do small water changes daily. It doesn't take a ton of time to change a small portion of your tank water. You could change 20% or so, and that will help keep the water pristine. And of course, Indian almond leaves may help a little in the healing process.

If this is an agressive form of fin rot, and you will be able to tell that by the amount of fin loss he has over a short period of time, you might then try an antibiotic. But don't put the antibiotic in the main tank. It will kill off your beneficial bacteria. Put him in a container that can act as a hospital tank. He will need a heater and possibly an air stone. You would need to change his water in the separate container a lot. You will want to use an antibiotic that fights gram negative bacteria (erythromycin, kanaplex, maracyn-2). Be careful not to over-do it, as these meds can be very hard on the fish's kidneys.

If you have questions, you cam pm me. I am happy to help!!!!

 

Hi,

Sorry that Indy is still having some issues! Here are a few thoughts. These suggestions are things you can do that will not affect the entire tank.

You could do some methylene blue baths. Methylene Blue will dye the ends of his fins blue, like coat it, and that may help take care of the issue. Methylene blue can be messy, and stains everything, so if you go this route, use a container that is disposable. Also, read the instructions carefully. I tried following the dip instructions, but found it to be a big waste. It's a lot to prepare for only a 10 to 15 second dip. I used this for my betta with torn fins that looked like fin rot was just starting.

You could do some aquarium salt baths. Use tank water, dissolve some aquarium salt, make sure the temp remains steady, and let him stay for 15 to 20 minutes in the bath. You can do this a couple times a day, or once a day. Follow the instructions on the aquarium salt package.

I would do small water changes daily. It doesn't take a ton of time to change a small portion of your tank water. You could change 20% or so, and that will help keep the water pristine. And of course, Indian almond leaves may help a little in the healing process.

If this is an agressive form of fin rot, and you will be able to tell that by the amount of fin loss he has over a short period of time, you might then try an antibiotic. But don't put the antibiotic in the main tank. It will kill off your beneficial bacteria. Put him in a container that can act as a hospital tank. He will need a heater and possibly an air stone. You would need to change his water in the separate container a lot. You will want to use an antibiotic that fights gram negative bacteria (erythromycin, kanaplex, maracyn-2). Be careful not to over-do it, as these meds can be very hard on the fish's kidneys.

If you have questions, you cam pm me. I am happy to help!!!!

Hi, I’m sorry for the late reply. Classes have been crazy. Thank you very much for all of the very helpful information. Indy doesn’t seem to have gotten worse. He did fin bite again. I have no idea over what since I fed him that day. I’ve been trying to keep up with the 20% water change everyday. I’ve only skipped once since reading your message. I also put in nine 2 inch almond leaves on his side of the tank. Should I go the extra step and buy the Methylene blue? I’m a bit hesitant to try aquarium salt since I read that if you do it wrong, you can burn your fish. How does the methylene blue dip work? I looked it up on Amazon but didn’t see any steps for it in the description or reviews.

 

Hi,

Sometimes it's hard to figure out what the triggers are that cause bettas to bite their own tails. Sometimes it's seeing their own reflections; sometimes it's fasting them on their fast day. There are all kinds of reasons.

I have learned over the years in keeping bettas that it is good to just keep some things on hand so that you will have it when you need it. You can get methylene blue from Wal-Mart, if you have access to that store, or any pet store that sells fish products. It's usually pretty cheap. It's just one of those things that I always keep for fin damage that doesn't respond to water changes alone (kind of like keeping aquarium salt on hand just in case).

For Kordon brand of methylene blue (which is what I have), the dosage directions are to use 5 teaspoons to 3 gallons of water. The water will be extremely dark blue. Whatever you do, don't spill any of it. It will stain whatever it comes into contact with, and you won't be able to get that stain out of anything cloth, or carpet, etc. You only keep the fish in for 10 seconds.

When I use it, I will use a much lighter amount for a bath (say, a half of a teaspoon) to one gallon of water. If you do this, then you can leave him in the bath for about 20 minutes.

If you decide to give him a bath, just watch him closely when you put him in to see if he shows signs of stress. If he doesn't, then you can keep him there for the full 20 minutes. I would not add anything to the bath other than the methylene blue. This med has been around for a very long time. Some people think that there are better ways to treat issues, but it is tried and true.

The thing about methylene blue is that it dyes the end of the damaged fins, thus protecting those sensitive areas, and slows down the amount of oxygen being sent to the areas of the fin rot, thus preventing it from spreading. The bacteria/pathogen that causes the fin rot is starved of oxygen, so it dies.

If you don't feel comfortable doing this, then just keep doing the water changes and check his fins for any changes. If you don't see the water changes helping, then you can go the next step with the methylene blue.

Sorry this is so wordy, but I believe in giving a full explanation as to why things work the way they work...

I hope this helps!

 

Hi,

Sometimes it's hard to figure out what the triggers are that cause bettas to bite their own tails. Sometimes it's seeing their own reflections; sometimes it's fasting them on their fast day. There are all kinds of reasons.

I have learned over the years in keeping bettas that it is good to just keep some things on hand so that you will have it when you need it. You can get methylene blue from Wal-Mart, if you have access to that store, or any pet store that sells fish products. It's usually pretty cheap. It's just one of those things that I always keep for fin damage that doesn't respond to water changes alone (kind of like keeping aquarium salt on hand just in case).

For Kordon brand of methylene blue (which is what I have), the dosage directions are to use 5 teaspoons to 3 gallons of water. The water will be extremely dark blue. Whatever you do, don't spill any of it. It will stain whatever it comes into contact with, and you won't be able to get that stain out of anything cloth, or carpet, etc. You only keep the fish in for 10 seconds.

When I use it, I will use a much lighter amount for a bath (say, a half of a teaspoon) to one gallon of water. If you do this, then you can leave him in the bath for about 20 minutes.

If you decide to give him a bath, just watch him closely when you put him in to see if he shows signs of stress. If he doesn't, then you can keep him there for the full 20 minutes. I would not add anything to the bath other than the methylene blue. This med has been around for a very long time. Some people think that there are better ways to treat issues, but it is tried and true.

The thing about methylene blue is that it dyes the end of the damaged fins, thus protecting those sensitive areas, and slows down the amount of oxygen being sent to the areas of the fin rot, thus preventing it from spreading. The bacteria/pathogen that causes the fin rot is starved of oxygen, so it dies.

If you don't feel comfortable doing this, then just keep doing the water changes and check his fins for any changes. If you don't see the water changes helping, then you can go the next step with the methylene blue.

Sorry this is so wordy, but I believe in giving a full explanation as to why things work the way they work...

I hope this helps!

This definitely helps! And no, it’s not too wordy at all. I appreciate getting all the information I can get so I don’t do something wrong. I purchased the methylene blue from Kordon. Indy has shredded his fins to the point that I’m going to move him out of this tank to the 5 gallon where hopefully things will be better. He’s really stressing himself and me out at this point. With the methylene blue, do I add water conditioner to the gallon of water? Sorry if it’s obvious.

 

No, I wouldn't add anything to the bath other than the med itself.

He may finally settle down once you move him to a 5 gallon tank. I don't know why, but some bettas just like their own small space.

Hope he gets better soon!!!

 

No, I wouldn't add anything to the bath other than the med itself.

He may finally settle down once you move him to a 5 gallon tank. I don't know why, but some bettas just like their own small space.

Hope he gets better soon!!!

It’s been a while but I just wanted to check in to say what’s been going on with Indy. He’s much happier in the 5 gallon, I think, but the fin rot has persisted. At first it seemed like it might be going away but it’s just slowly grew back after Indy took a chunk out of his fins (actually removing it). So I went ahead with the dip. 1/2 a teaspoon in 1 gallon of water. I tried to do the 20 minutes but he was easily spooked (I’m guessing because he couldn’t see very well) so I took him out after 5 minutes in a cup. Putting him back also poured in some of the methylene blue and it has tinted the water a bit, but I expect that it will disappear soon. The areas affected on Indy’s fins don’t appear to be blue in color so I’m wondering if I did everything correctly.

 

Hi,

So sorry that you are still having a problem with your little guy!!!!

Sounds like it is a really nasty strain, and resistent to meds. This happens sometimes due to the overuse of meds, including antibiotics.

I am posting a link to a thread about using hydrogen peroxide. If you are interested in trying this, read through the thread and see if this is something that you would like to try. I have also used hydrogen peroxide to treat fin issues, and done so successfully. It just takes a little while depending on how you do this (either adding to the tank over a period of time or actually painting it on his fins, the second option being pretty stressful to both you and the fish). If you do decide to paint it on his fins with, say, a q-tip, be very, very gentle with the fish. You could harm him without meaning to. Be careful not to get any peroxide in his eyes.

Thread 'Peroxide How To'



If you don't want to try the peroxide, I would do another dip with the meth blue. If I remember correctly, I used it every other day for a total of three treatments.

Along with that, I did small water changes every other day. Keep your water absolutly pristine.

If you don't see any improvement after 3 treatments and freqent water changes (I would give it another week or so), then you can start on an antibiotic. I would do this as a last resort effort.

You can dose him in a hospital tank of some sort so you don't kill your cycle. You will need to add a heater and maybe an air stone, if you have one. You can use almost anything as a hospital tank, including a plastic tote. I use a gallon cookie jar. Just make sure it is very clean. Most fin rot strains are gram negative, so the antibiotic you get will need to say that it will treat a gram negative bacterial infection. I use Seachem and Mardel products whereas others use API products. There's a lot to choose from out there. Each product uses a different antibiotic.

I hope this information helps you!!!! I always try to use the least stressful option first, and antibiotics last, as they can do damage to the betta's kidneys and other internal organs. Antibiotics are really hard on the fish.

 

Hi,

So sorry that you are still having a problem with your little guy!!!!

Sounds like it is a really nasty strain, and resistent to meds. This happens sometimes due to the overuse of meds, including antibiotics.

I am posting a link to a thread about using hydrogen peroxide. If you are interested in trying this, read through the thread and see if this is something that you would like to try. I have also used hydrogen peroxide to treat fin issues, and done so successfully. It just takes a little while depending on how you do this (either adding to the tank over a period of time or actually painting it on his fins, the second option being pretty stressful to both you and the fish). If you do decide to paint it on his fins with, say, a q-tip, be very, very gentle with the fish. You could harm him without meaning to. Be careful not to get any peroxide in his eyes.

Thread 'Peroxide How To'



If you don't want to try the peroxide, I would do another dip with the meth blue. If I remember correctly, I used it every other day for a total of three treatments.

Along with that, I did small water changes every other day. Keep your water absolutly pristine.

If you don't see any improvement after 3 treatments and freqent water changes (I would give it another week or so), then you can start on an antibiotic. I would do this as a last resort effort.

You can dose him in a hospital tank of some sort so you don't kill your cycle. You will need to add a heater and maybe an air stone, if you have one. You can use almost anything as a hospital tank, including a plastic tote. I use a gallon cookie jar. Just make sure it is very clean. Most fin rot strains are gram negative, so the antibiotic you get will need to say that it will treat a gram negative bacterial infection. I use Seachem and Mardel products whereas others use API products. There's a lot to choose from out there. Each product uses a different antibiotic.

I hope this information helps you!!!! I always try to use the least stressful option first, and antibiotics last, as they can do damage to the betta's kidneys and other internal organs. Antibiotics are really hard on the fish.

It got very hectic over the holidays and I had an issue with my main aquarium, but I tried your advice about the water changes and the methylene blue treatment for a week. Indy’s fins have been pretty much the same, to the point I’m wondering if it’s actually his color. But the edges do look kind of odd because they don’t taper like the rest and how it used to. Or so it seems, it’s hard to tell. How fast does fin rot progress? He’s always had a bit of dark coloring, even at the base of his top fin (which has grown back very well these past few months). You can see it in all the photos. Where there is a dark grey on his back fin now, he had a blue sheen to it shortly after I brought him home. The pictures with the heater in the background are from today and the others are from February of this year. Again, I’m very sorry for taking so long to reply. Thank you so much for continuing to offer advice. I guess my next step is the hydrogen peroxide. I haven’t medicated Indy with anything before the methylene blue so I’m not sure why it’s not working if he has fin rot.

 

Hi!

I am so sorry that you are still having an issue with Indy! Fin rot can progress slowly or quickly, depending on the strain of bacteria, so it's hard to say for sure. But you would definitely see his fins disappearing and/or crumbling to pieces as fin rot advances.

I am sorry that the methylene dips didn't work!

That may be his natural color that you are seeing, as you said, but there is still a little mass missing there. Fin rot is often dark on light colored fish, but it is possible that he has had some color change going on, and he is just missing a little bit of fin, which should grow back with clean water.

You could hold off on the peroxide unless you see his fins deteriorating further, if that worries you.

If you want to try an aquarium salt treatment first (if you haven't already), I would recommend adding some aquarium salt to the tank (if you don't have any snails/invertebrates), and just follow the dosing instructions on the package. You can use this for two weeks, and see if there is any change. And I would just keep up with his small, frequent water changes. Just be sure to keep track of how much water you change so you can add back the correct amount of salt. Aquarium salt is only removed by water changes, and you wouldn't want to over dose him on aquarium salt. This would be something very safe and easy to try.

Then, if the aquarium salt doesn't seem to work, you could try the hydrogen peroxide.

If nothing else seems to work, then you could try some API Fin and Body Cure, or maybe some kanaplex, but I never use antibiotics if I can help it. It's always best to try other ways first since the overuse of antibiotics have lead to strain-resistant bacteria.

Let me know what you decide, and keep me posted! He is such a pretty boy!!!

 

Hi!

I am so sorry that you are still having an issue with Indy! Fin rot can progress slowly or quickly, depending on the strain of bacteria, so it's hard to say for sure. But you would definitely see his fins disappearing and/or crumbling to pieces as fin rot advances.

I am sorry that the methylene dips didn't work!

That may be his natural color that you are seeing, as you said, but there is still a little mass missing there. Fin rot is often dark on light colored fish, but it is possible that he has had some color change going on, and he is just missing a little bit of fin, which should grow back with clean water.

You could hold off on the peroxide unless you see his fins deteriorating further, if that worries you.

If you want to try an aquarium salt treatment first (if you haven't already), I would recommend adding some aquarium salt to the tank (if you don't have any snails/invertebrates), and just follow the dosing instructions on the package. You can use this for two weeks, and see if there is any change. And I would just keep up with his small, frequent water changes. Just be sure to keep track of how much water you change so you can add back the correct amount of salt. Aquarium salt is only removed by water changes, and you wouldn't want to over dose him on aquarium salt. This would be something very safe and easy to try.

Then, if the aquarium salt doesn't seem to work, you could try the hydrogen peroxide.

If nothing else seems to work, then you could try some API Fin and Body Cure, or maybe some kanaplex, but I never use antibiotics if I can help it. It's always best to try other ways first since the overuse of antibiotics have lead to strain-resistant bacteria.

Let me know what you decide, and keep me posted! He is such a pretty boy!!!

Hi, thank you very much for the reply! It doesn’t seem like his fins are disappearing at all and it doesn’t look like the dark color has progressed so I’ve been unsure what to do. Would the hydrogen peroxide or aquarium salt be hard on him at all? I’m always worried I’ll make a mistake with treatment, so I’m thinking I would stick with just increasing my water changes for a while and see if there’s any improvement, if that’s okay. But of course I’ll switch to the aquarium salt and hydrogen peroxide if I need to. I’m going to read up on it. Is three water changes a week sufficient and will this harm the cycle? How long do you think I should keep with it?

Thank you so much! I’ll for sure keep you updated. He seems happy otherwise! He’s been making very large bubble nests.

 

Oh my goodness, what a big bubble nest!!

The aquarium salt won't hurt anything as long as you don't have snails/invertebrates. Using it for 2 weeks won't hurt your plants, either. And it is very safe! It is very good to have on hand, and can be used for a number of issues, from mild infections to injuries to fin rot to breathing issues - it's just about all-purpose!

Three small chages a week is perfect!

And I am leaning towards it being his normal color, myself, but you know your fin baby better than anyone else, and if there has been no fin loss, you are probably right!