Impossibility Of Meaningful Discourse | Page 2

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Mr. Kgnao, Feb 17, 2019.

  1. AquaticJ Fishlore VIP Member

    The mods on here have never censored me, and I’ve posted on here a more than reasonable amount.

    Any group or forum will have opinions that seem to systematically coincide, so pick your poison I suppose. I personally have found this forum to be loaded with great threads, information, and knowledgeable people. Much more so than others I’ve experienced. I’ve also met a lot of great people on here, not just their knowledge, but friendship as well.

  2. Addie42 Well Known Member Member

    I'm just crying over the "inefficient google search"

  3. ryanr Moderator Moderator Member

    I'm all encouraging of respectful discussion and debate, it's what gives us the opportunity to learn and grow.

    Unfortunately, there are just some topics that are not suitable for Fishlore. History has proven Einstein's "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results."

    It doesn't matter how many times we've tried to allow a civil and mature discussion about some topics (typically non-fish related), discussion turns to a disrespectful argument between two or three protagonists, and the argument then becomes personal. Disdain, derision and belittlement ensues, and the mods are faced with a massive cleanup task.

    The smartest approach is to remove it before it happens. Before we get inundated with reports of abusive behaviour and before we have to issue warnings (or worse). To quote your eloquent title, I would argue the affirmative, there is an inherent impossibility to meaningful discourse on an open forum.

    The mod team doesn't actively censor posts/threads, in fact, we very rarely need to edit a post (save for merging back-to-back posts), but we do have an obligation to keep it safe for the whole community; remember, unlike other forums, Fishlore's minimum age is 13, which presents different considerations to those of other forums.

    Quod est necessarium est licitum, “That which is necessary is legal" :D [sorry, love that episode of TBBT]

    Last edited: Feb 17, 2019
  4. Mr. Kgnao Valued Member Member

    Oh yeah, thanks for that, I honestly did mean to go back and fix that, I just... didn't. But I was going to I swear.
  5. mattgirl Fishlore VIP Member

    One of the many things I appreciate about this forum is the fact that rude behavior is not allowed and even when it has to be moderated by the mods it is still done with kindness. I made a few mistakes when I first joined and the action taken was done in a gentle way. I will admit that I didn't step very far over the line though so didn't need a stern warning. :D

    I have to admit I don't have very thick skin so can't handle strong debate very well. I do my best to avoid it up to and including just not posting something that might draw any kind of conflict.

    I try to think through all responses I make to hopefully prevent any one taking my words out of context. If I think something I say might be taken the wrong way I add more to it clarifying what I am saying so there is no doubt.

    I guess I must not be paying close attention because I've not noticed threads being deleted or closed unless requested by the person that started the thread. I have seen threads merged to keep all the posts in one thread and appreciate that action since it makes it easier to follow along with the problem and the answers posted to hopefully fix the problem.

    I must admit that I don't usually open any of the threads that venture away from fish keeping. That may be why I'm not seeing what you are seeing.
  6. Ronniethewitch Valued Member Member

    I am offended that I haven't yet been censored! (though some posts have been merged for me and one spelling mistake that I made but pointed out I didn't know how to edit) guess I'm going to have to step up my game! Challenge accepted....
  7. david1978 Fishlore Legend Member

    You better watch. @Lucy will come come to your house and give you a paddling.
  8. Ronniethewitch Valued Member Member

    I get excused maybe because I live too far away??? England is a fair bit of distance for a little paddling...maybe they are saving it all up for a proper beating?
  9. coralbandit Fishlore VIP Member

    I think it is funny when people think they are out of reach ..
    Why do you think they call it 'the LONG arm of the law ' !! :D
    I have learned to be one of the ones OP complains about .I gots a little knowledge but for the most part if some one wants to steer the ship off in a different direction and no one else speaks up so be it .I usually stop posting on that thread .Just did it last night again ? Hope they are alright and get some good info from some one ...:confused:
  10. Ronniethewitch Valued Member Member

    Pardon my ignorance....I had to google the 'woozle effect'. Fantastic description!

    But I do believe that a large number of people who first come here are actually beginners. We found the forum because we were looking things up on google and this site came up most often - certainly that was the case for me. There are many long term aquarists here who give best practice answers that they might not even use anymore themselves once they were more experienced and understood the consequences of certain basic actions . They do this simply because their answers create a basis of knowledge that a beginner can build upon.

    Thats where the arguments come. The ones that seem to be the same over and over....because once someone understands that we are water keepers first than we can play around with some of the 'rules' that we were first given as beginners. But when you consider that a 13yr old child could be reading what you say and taking it as gospel, or worse still has come for help and can't decipher which side of the 'argument' is more valid, so is no better off for having asked the question...then those good practice answers are the way forward. 'Thus the moderators must step in and 'clean it up' as it has been so eloquently described.

    I love a good debate though! so if you are ever in the mood for one just pick a subject and message me I will happily take the arbitrary position and we can duel! ;)
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  11. jjohnwm Well Known Member Member

    @Mr. Kgnao, thanks for starting this very interesting thread. I've been a member here for a few months and was starting to think I was the only one who felt this way. After several dozen threads in which I found myself growing increasingly irritated by a conversation in which another member asked a question, and then vehemently defended why their opinion, although wrong, should be correct...I found myself ready to throw in the towel.

    People here are so terrified by the prospect of offending someone that they will agree with almost any nonsensical gibberish in an effort to remain polite, rather than simply tell someone else that they are wrong.

    A high point of my own descent into disgruntlement came when I made a post in jest, which contained a quote that included some choice not-for-primetime language. I hasten to add that I never used any profanity...I replaced all the nastiness with a string of assorted keyboard symbols in the time-honoured comic-strip tradition of swearing-without-swearing. This string of &*$%#*^$#%@% is recognized everywhere, and appears in lieu of profanity in comics for kids...but it was too much for Fishlore, and was hastily deleted. I guess we have some members who are comic-strip characters and whose delicate imaginary sensibilities would have been traumatized...

    I came here hopefully to learn some of the new methods, techniques and technologies of modern-day aquaristics. I quickly became aware that Fishlore is, as @david1978 commented, largely a beginners' site. That in itself is okay, except for the fact that a significant percentage of those beginners have carefully read the label of every patent-medicine bottle in their LFS and now know everything. One member who responded in a thread with a statement which was patently incorrect...and who was corrected by several different people... took offense to the manner in which I disputed her claim. Several private exchanges later, this member ceased to communicate with me (thankfully...) and seems to have since then been absent from Fishlore.

    Honestly, if being told that you are wrong is so stressful, you should really either stop making so many mis-statements...or else refrain from commenting on a topic if you are simply guessing.

    I live in the North, and am forced to deal with more than my fair share of snowflakes (the natural variety). Sadly, there is another species by that name that makes me think that Fishlore isn't going to fulfill the role I had envisioned for it when I joined.
  12. david1978 Fishlore Legend Member

    I'm one of the do as I say not as I do people. Lol. But after 20 some years i have learned how far I can bend the rules with my particular water chemistry. Don't get me wrong there is a wealth of knowledge in advanced aquatics on here. You just have to learn who those people are and who is just blowing smoke with googled answers .
  13. coralbandit Fishlore VIP Member

    None of this is any different on the smart guys advanced forums ..It is how people are hardwired. Ask me how I know ? I have been a member on almost if not every major fish forum .They repeat what the smartest guy says or who ever they worship !:p
  14. Ronniethewitch Valued Member Member

    Aww... thats just so depressing a point of view. You gotta let the sun shine buddy. We all come as beginners but there are some fantastic folk on here with decades of experience who can go deeper into things if you just ask.

    I haven't personally been attacked but I did witness it a few months back quite alot and it seems to have stopped altogether these days.... which I guess really means the mods are doing a good job, yes? I hope you stay and argue, or rather debate, some more. We have to keep it interesting don't we?
  15. david1978 Fishlore Legend Member

    The one thing I find almost hilarious is one member can be helping and if the op asks for clarification or the next step most members will give the answer the person helping them would of given.
  16. david1978 Fishlore Legend Member

    I belong to what's considered an advanced forum. They spend more time arguing over why a 21" tank is better then a 20" tank. Or a certain fish only needs 5 instead of 6. Its unreal.
  17. Ronniethewitch Valued Member Member

    SNOOZE zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
    I would much rather be on a forum where censorship is actually necessary sometimes. Far more interesting!
  18. jjohnwm Well Known Member Member

    Yeah, I suppose that particular gripe is more with the nature of internet forums in general, rather than a Fishlore-specific thing.
  19. Smalltownfishfriend Well Known Member Member

    Please don't leave. I always stalk your posts when I need a laugh!!! Lol not many people have such a good sense of humor these days!!!
  20. jjohnwm Well Known Member Member

    "What do you mean funny...funny how? How am I funny? I mean, funny like I'm a clown? I amuse you???"

    ...end Joe Pesci voice. :)