Impossibility Of Meaningful Discourse

Mr. Kgnao

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I'll preface this by conceding that internet boards can deteriorate quickly, and the line dividing a heated disagreement and flame war is not something easily divined, but it seems increasingly clear to me that, in erring on the side of caution, vigorous debate is actively shunned on these boards.

Our posts are more or less predetermined for us through some kind of fishkeeping forum squeeze theorem which only allows room to incessantly repeat the same tired comments and relive the same insipid, unresolvable, agree to disagree, quasi-arguments.

How many threads on this forum are of the type: "can you keep neons in a 10" "no you need a 20 long" "I think you could do it in a 20" "I disagree" "well okay then". Plug in whatever variables you wish for neons and 10/20 and you have the vast majority of arguments on this board. No on ever gets anywhere because the second someone throws down a 'j'accuse' (while we're on it, could you google a foreign word or phrase to see if it's a coinage commonly used in the English language before summarily deleting it please), and debate starts to intensify and thesis threatens to meet antithesis at a point of synthesis, the thread is deleted and that's that.

It seems every thread I've been a part of that's begun to pique my interest, which is depressingly few, has been deleted. Yet every "my b3tta has t3h sicks" "learn the nitrogen cycle" page, which is really just inefficient google, seems to live forever.

I fully appreciate the necessary and far too often thankless role that moderators play, but can't we have just a little bit of peril?
 

Donthemon

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I am fairly new. I didn’t realize the moderator censors comments.... Bummer.......people so afraid of offending these days, I agree can stifle a good debate.
 

Demeter

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Debates are good and healthy but most the “debates” I’ve come across are about stubborn people refusing to acknowledge the cause and obvious solution to their problems. I’d like to see a few more threads and debates that are supported with scientific evidence rather than “because this website says so”.

I’ve personally been singled out a couple times while taking part in debates and found myself at the tail end of someone’s verbal abuse. More amusing than offensive really. The mods came through and cleaned things up, probably slapped a few wrists as wells.
 

david1978

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Yea I got yelled at a few times. A mod showed up at my house and paddled me once. But seriously most of these debates have been debated so many times it gets old. There's 3 websites I turn to as the most knowledgeable at least to me as well as the wisdom of the old fish keepers. For the most part this is a beginners forum as far as the people asking for help so "best" practices are the way to go.
 
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Mr. Kgnao

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Debates are good and healthy but most the “debates” I’ve come across are about stubborn people refusing to acknowledge the cause and obvious solution to their problems. I’d like to see a few more threads and debates that are supported with scientific evidence rather than “because this website says so”.

I’ve personally been singled out a couple times while taking part in debates and found myself at the tail end of someone’s verbal abuse. More ammusing than offensive really. The mods came through and cleaned things up, probably slapped a few wrists as wells.
One of my biggest grievances is the amount of "fish keeping wisdom" which is really just "I googled it and this is what seriously fish says". The potency of the woozle effect in this hobby is incredible. I'm convinced that if you snuck the right info onto a site that comes up towards the top of the page of google results, it would relatively quickly become common knowledge that synodontis catfish only eat Sno-Caps nonpareils, and anyone who dares try flake food is a menace.
 

bitseriously

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I’m siding with the mods in this. I think they do a great job of keeping things civil. Not every reader here is age of majority, or has thick enough skin to handle a flame war. You never know who’s on the other side of a username.
 

-Mak-

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This is why I avoid stocking threads and talking about my own stocking

If you think about it, 20 long is not nearly enough for tetras. They have a whole stream/river in nature. They probably swim at minimum several meters in all directions. Everyone should have 500 gallon tanks at home, no?

For other topics that invite disagreement, I usually argue my point and try to give scientific evidence when possible, but few things are more debatable than stocking. I haven't seen threads deleted, probably because I don't pay attention, but I think leaving them up could be a help to future readers
 

WinterSoldier.

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Debates are good and healthy but most the “debates” I’ve come across are about stubborn people refusing to acknowledge the cause and obvious solution to their problems. I’d like to see a few more threads and debates that are supported with scientific evidence rather than “because this website says so”.

I’ve personally been singled out a couple times while taking part in debates and found myself at the tail end of someone’s verbal abuse. More ammusing than offensive really. The mods came through and cleaned things up, probably slapped a few wrists as wells.
So true! Sometimes online I'll be like "Okay so you do know you can't keep a betta in a mason jar right?" And then they will pull up a video of some idiot doing it and then get all upset when I'm like "Okay well they are wrong, and that's cruel to the fish okay?"
 
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Mr. Kgnao

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@Mr. Kgnao Is there a particular thread that was deleted that you are referring to?
This has been a frustration bubbling under the surface for some time, but what finally provided the impetus to create this admittedly whiny, self-congratulatory thread was a sense of guilt over another thread, not mine, with a title like "Military History" or something in that vein which seems to have disappeared after I offended another user with my supposed "America bashing".

There is a bigger issue though, the sense of reticence I feel to correct patently bad information being passed around, because I'm not sure how to phrase that great principle of Wittgenstein's, "Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen.", in a way that couldn't possibly be construed as offensive.

Also, shame on you for responding in such a prompt, courteous, and magnanimous manner. Making me look like a jerk. Next time I'd appreciated it if you would at least humor me a little and come in birds flippin' and shade throwin'.
 

david1978

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Would you mind dumbing down your post for the rest of us? I hate googling long words.
 

scarface

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Seems to me people don't like to hear facts. I hate absolutes like can't, won't, needs, etc., because it's usually an emotional response, not a rational one. I've been accused of being a troll and even purposefully controversial for disagreeing with the norm, which is amusing since I would never say even 1/3 of the things some say here to a person face-to-face. I want to give advice that's reasonable, not emotional and opinion-based. If I appear disagreeable, it's because I care. I want people to enjoy this hobby, not throw money away when they already have a suitable setup. End of my kind-of-sort-of rant.
 

Lucy

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Well, you presented the topic being deleted was fish related. Sorry you don't care for my simple inquiry so that I could review it.
Thanks for the attack.

Now that it's been clarified that it was not about fish.

Forum Rules:
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Discussion and debating is encouraged but rudeness, insulting posts, inflammatory posts or personal attacks will not be tolerated. Controversial posts such as, but not limited to, politics and religion are not allowed. Above all, be respectful of your fellow members.

Hot topic discussions outside of fish keeping are not allowed. They tend to go downhill quickly. There are many forums on the internet where this type of discussion is more suited.

Anyone subscribed to that thread should have gotten an alert that it was under moderation review.
 

WinterSoldier.

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Seems to me people don't like to hear facts. I hate absolutes like can't, won't, needs, etc., because it's usually an emotional response, not a rational one. I've been accused of being a troll and even purposefully controversial for disagreeing with the norm, which is amusing since I would never say even 1/3 of the things some say here to a person face-to-face. I want to give advice that's reasonable, not emotional and opinion-based. If I appear disagreeable, it's because I care. I want people to enjoy this hobby, not throw money away when they already have a suitable setup. End of my kind-of-sort-of rant.
I agree, I was debating politics once, and I gave the truth, and facts, and guess what? "Look! A Russian Troll!"
 
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Mr. Kgnao

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Would you mind dumbing down your post for the rest of us? I hate googling long words.
Hey man, I paid good money for this thesaurus and I'm going to use it. I mean, I intend to apply it.

Well, you presented the topic being deleted was fish related. Sorry you don't care for my simple inquiry so that I could review it.
Thanks for the attack.

Now that it's been clarified that it was not about fish.

Forum Rules:
1.
Discussion and debating is encouraged but rudeness, insulting posts, inflammatory posts or personal attacks will not be tolerated. Controversial posts such as, but not limited to, politics and religion are not allowed. Above all, be respectful of your fellow members.

Hot topic discussions outside of fish keeping are now allowed. They tend to go downhill quickly. There are many forums on the internet where this type of discussion is more suited.

Anyone subscribed to that thread should have gotten an alert that it was under moderation review.
Whoa, just so we're clear here, that last part of my post was sarcasm. I genuinely appreciate the concern you showed.

Seems to me people don't like to hear facts. I hate absolutes like can't, won't, needs, etc., because it's usually an emotional response, not a rational one. I've been accused of being a troll and even purposefully controversial for disagreeing with the norm, which is amusing since I would never say even 1/3 of the things some say here to a person face-to-face. I want to give advice that's reasonable, not emotional and opinion-based. If I appear disagreeable, it's because I care. I want people to enjoy this hobby, not throw money away when they already have a suitable setup. End of my kind-of-sort-of rant.
I'm not going to lie, there are quite a few threads where I'm just waiting for Al Pacino to show up and set the record straight.
 

_IceFyre_

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I agree.
As long as people aren’t personally attacking others I don’t really see a reason for censoring debate. Disagreement is necessary for progress, and while people might not always respond well to hearing the opinions of others that contradict their own, I believe that having more access to polarizing perspectives would be beneficial to us all.
 

david1978

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Really the only threads I have seen deleted or posts censored were ones that had no meaningful outcome or they were directed at a particular member. I have never seen normal discussions censored or deleted.
 
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