Im thinking of maybe starting a saltwater tank, help and advice please!

Hello everybody! Im thinking of maybe turning my 15 gallon freshwater tank into a FOWLR or FO tank. I have read a few "thinking of starting a saltwater tank" type threads and I know the basics but I have a few questions.
1. Im still confused on filtration. Can I use by HOBs? Does the rocks do it? Im so confused.
2.I want to get a pair of clownfish and a CUC of shrimp (red fire shrimp/skunk shrimp I think), snails, hermit crabs, I like urchins but I'm not sure if I could get one (after my tank actually has some stuff for it to eat lol). All of these might be unnecessary or wont fit but please tell me which would be best.
3. I know you need RO/DI water so what do you think of using the RO buddy with the di add on?
4. Do I need to drip acclimate and quarantine all of the animals before putting them in the tank?
5. I have an air stone can I still use that for saltwater? Would the fish like it?
6. I don't need a protein skimmer because I'm not getting corals right?
7. Im planning on getting a refractometer, powerhead, marine salt, ro/di system (tell me if I'm missing something. Im using my heater and lighting from my FW tank since its just fish)
8. I want to get fake corals just for the look that's ok right?
9. What are the benefits/downfalls of live rock vs dry rock?
Im so sorry for all the questions but I want to make sure I have all the necessary info before I commit. THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!

Sorry the post is so long

 

I’m still researching saltwater myself but I might be able to answer a few of your questions. HOB filters can cause nitrate build ups so they’re not the best. The live rock will do the biological filtration and water changes should do the rest. Live sand is also good. A protein skimmer is not necessary but will make it easier. For the dry rock vs live I think live can carry pests but allows the tank to cycle almost immediately. Dry rock will take 1-3 months but it’ll help avoid any pests. Personally I’m going to get my live rock from petco because they are shipped dry rock and then allow the rock to mature in their tanks to prevent any pests. It mostly depends on the petco but mine takes pretty good care of their saltwater tanks so I feel like it’s a good idea to get the rock from there. Also, it’s cheaper than online or at most local fish stores.

 

I’m still researching saltwater myself but I might be able to answer a few of your questions. HOB filters can cause nitrate build ups so they’re not the best. The live rock will do the biological filtration and water changes should do the rest. Live sand is also good. A protein skimmer is not necessary but will make it easier. For the dry rock vs live I think live can carry pests but allows the tank to cycle almost immediately. Dry rock will take 1-3 months but it’ll help avoid any pests. Personally I’m going to get my live rock from petco because they are shipped dry rock and then allow the rock to mature in their tanks to prevent any pests. It mostly depends on the petco but mine takes pretty good care of their saltwater tanks so I feel like it’s a good idea to get the rock from there. Also, it’s cheaper than online or at most local fish stores.

Cool I right now have just play sand in the tank and it would be a real hassle to take out so I think I will stick with that sand but get live rock.

 

I kept saltwater tanks for about 15 years. I no longer have one as they require a lot of work and can get expensive. keeping a smaller tank will be less expensive, but it is harder to keep a small tank stable, so you have to be diligent to maintain it.

Hello everybody! Im thinking of maybe turning my 15 gallon freshwater tank into a FOWLR or FO tank. I have read a few "thinking of starting a saltwater tank" type threads and I know the basics but I have a few questions.

1. Im still confused on filtration. Can I use by HOBs? Does the rocks do it? Im so confused.

In larger saltwater tanks, it is common to use a sump and some type of wet/dry filter. However, for a smaller aquarium that is not necessary as long as the tank is lightly stocked. An HOB filter would be OK. Saltwater aquariums require higher water flow than freshwater aquariums. Thus, for a 15 gallon tank you would want to use a filter rated for 150-200 gph flow.

2.I want to get a pair of clownfish and a CUC of shrimp (red fire shrimp/skunk shrimp I think), snails, hermit crabs, I like urchins but I'm not sure if I could get one (after my tank actually has some stuff for it to eat lol). All of these might be unnecessary or wont fit but please tell me which would be best.

If you try to keep saltwater shrimp, I hope you have better luck than I did. I kept fish, anemones, soft corals, clams, and snails successfully, but I never did get either shrimp or crabs to survive for more than a few weeks in my tanks. In a tank as that small, I suggest you skip the sea urchin. The spines are poisonous and with so little space, it might be difficult for the clownfish to avoid him.

3. I know you need RO/DI water so what do you think of using the RO buddy with the di add on?

I started out with an RO/DI system, but when the DI cartridge was exhausted, I never bothered to replace it. My RO water is about 20 ppm TDS and that seemed to work fine. The RO Buddie should be fine, with or without the DI cartridge.

4. Do I need to drip acclimate and quarantine all of the animals before putting them in the tank.

Drip acclimation is always a good idea. Your tank and the one in the LFS might not be at the same temperature and salanity. Since this is a small tank, you might get aways without setting up a quarantine tank, but realize that you could lose your investment if the fish or shrimp die.

5. I have an air stone can I still use that for saltwater? Would the fish like it?

Using an air stone would be OK.

6. I don't need a protein skimmer because I'm not getting corals right?

One reason protein skimmers are popular in saltwater tanks is that they reduce the frequency and quantity of water changes by removing organics from the water. As long as you are willing to do frequent partial water changes, you can skip the skimmer.

7. Im planning on getting a refractometer, powerhead, marine salt, ro/di system (tell me if I'm missing something. Im using my heater and lighting from my FW tank since its just fish)

A refractometer is very accurate and a good investment. However, for routine checks on salinity, I found that a swing arm hydrometer such as the one by Instant Ocean works OK. However, you still need to do refractomer testing periodically to confirm the hydrometer reading. Salt water can dry inside the hydrometer chamber causing the pivot to stick and air bubbles can collect on the swing arm producing erroneous readings.

Don't forget to purchase test kits that come with charts for saltwater. The color charts you may have used for freshwater tests won't work for saltwater. Saltwater fish and invertebrates are quite sensitive to ammonia, nitrite and nitrates.

8. I want to get fake corals just for the look that's ok right?

A clownfish would be happier with a live anemone or soft coral, but they do not need one.

9. What are the benefits/downfalls of live rock vs dry rock?

If you purchase coral rock dry, after a few months it will become live rock after bacteria grow in it. I suggest getting at least a small piece of live rock as it will come with colonies of bacteria and perhaps even some other live critters such as copepods (not all copepods are harmful). The rest can be dry rock.

You might also consider purchasing live sand to get your biofilter started right.


Im so sorry for all the questions but I want to make sure I have all the necessary info before I commit. THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!

It sounds like you have already done a lot of good research. Congratulations and good luck!

 

Hello everybody! Im thinking of maybe turning my 15 gallon freshwater tank into a FOWLR or FO tank. I have read a few "thinking of starting a saltwater tank" type threads and I know the basics but I have a few questions.
1. Im still confused on filtration. Can I use by HOBs? Does the rocks do it? Im so confused.
2.I want to get a pair of clownfish and a CUC of shrimp (red fire shrimp/skunk shrimp I think), snails, hermit crabs, I like urchins but I'm not sure if I could get one (after my tank actually has some stuff for it to eat lol). All of these might be unnecessary or wont fit but please tell me which would be best.
3. I know you need RO/DI water so what do you think of using the RO buddy with the di add on?
4. Do I need to drip acclimate and quarantine all of the animals before putting them in the tank?
5. I have an air stone can I still use that for saltwater? Would the fish like it?
6. I don't need a protein skimmer because I'm not getting corals right?
7. Im planning on getting a refractometer, powerhead, marine salt, ro/di system (tell me if I'm missing something. Im using my heater and lighting from my FW tank since its just fish)
8. I want to get fake corals just for the look that's ok right?
9. What are the benefits/downfalls of live rock vs dry rock?
Im so sorry for all the questions but I want to make sure I have all the necessary info before I commit. THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!

1) Absolutely you can use HOBs on a smaller tank with a lighter bioload. The Fluval/Aquaclear or Seachem Tidal filters are well suited to the task. In point of fact it's arguably the best option on tanks that small unless you are looking at buying an all in one setup or going really crazy and plumbing a sump on it. Live Rock or Dry Rock to be seeded to become live is your biofilter in a reef tank (much the same way that your filter media is your biofilter in a freshwater tank).

2) List would be fine for that setup, although a cleaner shrimp may struggle a bit long term in a tank of that size getting enough to eat since it only has two fish to clean and will need a fair bit of supplemental food to keep fed (which creates potential issues for nutrient problems)

3) The Aquatic Life RO Buddie RODI setup would be perfect for that tank since you don't need a ton of RODI water. Just remember that in addition to the salt mix for water changes you will also need fresh unsalted RODI to top up the tank in between water changes (water evaporates but salt doesn't so this is what you do to keep salinity levels balanced).

4) Drip Acclimation IMHO depends greatly on the source. I would drip acclimate if you plan on ordering online but if you are getting them from a nearby LFS that has similar water parameters to your tank then I would say you would be fine for simply floating. As for quarantine yes, it is recommended due to the parasite issues which would require to remove the fish and quarantine to cure them. There are some nasty ones particularly with clowns (ie Brooklynella, Ich, Velvet and possibly Uronema).

5) I would advise against it. Wavemakers/Powerheads are the best choice for a saltwater tank as they need underwater current to keep the biofilter healthy and a powerhead/wavemaker does it directly while with a bubbler it's more of a bi-product. In addition the Bubbler splash will make crusted salt build up around the tank (aka salt creep) to make a huge maintenance hassle for you. You will get some regardless but with a bubbler it's much worse.

6) Honestly even if you were doing corals you could still go without a skimmer on a tank that size. Just stay on top of water changes, don't overfeed and use a clean food source (ie LRS Reef Frenzy) and you should be good to go.

7) Your list looks good, although I would recommend that unless you are sure that tank heater can be used in a marine tank to replace it and if the tank heater is at least a year old it would be worth replacing anyways. A marine compatible tank heater for your tank would run just over $20 for a pretty good one:
https://www.amazon.com/EHEIM-Jager-...Eheim+Jager+Heater&qid=1605399427&sr=8-2&th=1

You will also need Live Rock or Dry Rock for your biofilter of course and a source of ammonia and bacteria. You can do Sand or Bare Bottom and there are several good options for Sand (ie Caribsea Live Sand, Argonite, Fiji Pink). All depends on what you want to do and what look you want.

8) The problem with fake corals is that as the tank matures any decor in a saltwater tank becomes an algae magnet and you will spend a lot of time scrubbing the decor. You also need to make 100% sure the decor is saltwater compatible as most decorations are good for fresh but would corrode in saltwater. For these two reasons I say avoid and after gaining some experience add a few easier to keep coral frags to try out. Some corals are easier to keep than people think (ie softies and easier to keep LPS).

9) It's a good question and I will muddy the waters further (pardon the pun) and add in Caribsea Life Rock as another alternative:

Live Rock: Has the advantage of having the most biodiversity for maximum filtration and generally cycles the fastest since it already has lots of biolife on it. The downsides to Live Rock are that it is arguably the most expensive option AND comes with the additional misfortune of some nasty potential pests (ie Bobbit Worms, Fireworms, Mantis Shrimp, Xanthid Crabs, Aiptasia, Mojano, Vermatid Snails)

Dry Rock: Has the advantage of being the cheapest option and you can shop around with online vendors to get the best possible price since there is no worry about die off on it, so even if it takes longer to ship it won't hurt anything. Also has the benefit of being pest free. The downside is that it takes by far the longest to establish the biofilter since you are literally building it from scratch and you have to cure (ie scrub down the rock well) before use so you don't get a bunch of phosphate leeching issues (cause crazy algae problems if it's not removed). It also doesn't have much biodiversity.

Caribsea Life Rock: It's scrubbed down and cured arognitic based rock with a manmade bacteria coating that becomes live in saltwater. So you get some beneficial bacteria as well as already cured dry rock to boot so it generally cycles about as fast as Live Rock. It is also pest free. The downsides are that it is more expensive than Dry Rock (albeit a bit cheaper than live rock) and doesn't have the biodiversity of regular live rock.

So there are advantages and disadvantages to all, although I do feel that the Caribsea Life Rock is the best compromise, but that is just my opinion (I have used it in both of my tanks with good results).

 

I’m still researching saltwater myself but I might be able to answer a few of your questions. HOB filters can cause nitrate build ups so they’re not the best. The live rock will do the biological filtration and water changes should do the rest. Live sand is also good. A protein skimmer is not necessary but will make it easier. For the dry rock vs live I think live can carry pests but allows the tank to cycle almost immediately. Dry rock will take 1-3 months but it’ll help avoid any pests. Personally I’m going to get my live rock from petco because they are shipped dry rock and then allow the rock to mature in their tanks to prevent any pests. It mostly depends on the petco but mine takes pretty good care of their saltwater tanks so I feel like it’s a good idea to get the rock from there. Also, it’s cheaper than online or at most local fish stores.

I think you are confusing HOB Filters with Canister Filters. Canisters can be problematic in that respect on saltwater tanks. HOB Filters are actually a good choice for smaller tanks.

 

1) Absolutely you can use HOBs on a smaller tank with a lighter bioload. The Fluval/Aquaclear or Seachem Tidal filters are well suited to the task. In point of fact it's arguably the best option on tanks that small unless you are looking at buying an all in one setup or going really crazy and plumbing a sump on it. Live Rock or Dry Rock to be seeded to become live is your biofilter in a reef tank (much the same way that your filter media is your biofilter in a freshwater tank).

2) List would be fine for that setup, although a cleaner shrimp may struggle a bit long term in a tank of that size getting enough to eat since it only has two fish to clean and will need a fair bit of supplemental food to keep fed (which creates potential issues for nutrient problems)

3) The Aquatic Life RO Buddie RODI setup would be perfect for that tank since you don't need a ton of RODI water. Just remember that in addition to the salt mix for water changes you will also need fresh unsalted RODI to top up the tank in between water changes (water evaporates but salt doesn't so this is what you do to keep salinity levels balanced).

4) Drip Acclimation IMHO depends greatly on the source. I would drip acclimate if you plan on ordering online but if you are getting them from a nearby LFS that has similar water parameters to your tank then I would say you would be fine for simply floating. As for quarantine yes, it is recommended due to the parasite issues which would require to remove the fish and quarantine to cure them. There are some nasty ones particularly with clowns (ie Brooklynella, Ich, Velvet and possibly Uronema).

5) I would advise against it. Wavemakers/Powerheads are the best choice for a saltwater tank as they need underwater current to keep the biofilter healthy and a powerhead/wavemaker does it directly while with a bubbler it's more of a bi-product. In addition the Bubbler splash will make crusted salt build up around the tank (aka salt creep) to make a huge maintenance hassle for you. You will get some regardless but with a bubbler it's much worse.

6) Honestly even if you were doing corals you could still go without a skimmer on a tank that size. Just stay on top of water changes, don't overfeed and use a clean food source (ie LRS Reef Frenzy) and you should be good to go.

7) Your list looks good, although I would recommend that unless you are sure that tank heater can be used in a marine tank to replace it and if the tank heater is at least a year old it would be worth replacing anyways. A marine compatible tank heater for your tank would run just over $20 for a pretty good one:
https://www.amazon.com/EHEIM-Jager-Aquarium-Thermostat-Heater/dp/B003SNO8VS/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=Eheim+Jager+Heater&qid=1605399427&sr=8-2&th=1

You will also need Live Rock or Dry Rock for your biofilter of course and a source of ammonia and bacteria. You can do Sand or Bare Bottom and there are several good options for Sand (ie Caribsea Live Sand, Argonite, Fiji Pink). All depends on what you want to do and what look you want.

8) The problem with fake corals is that as the tank matures any decor in a saltwater tank becomes an algae magnet and you will spend a lot of time scrubbing the decor. You also need to make 100% sure the decor is saltwater compatible as most decorations are good for fresh but would corrode in saltwater. For these two reasons I say avoid and after gaining some experience add a few easier to keep coral frags to try out. Some corals are easier to keep than people think (ie softies and easier to keep LPS).

9) It's a good question and I will muddy the waters further (pardon the pun) and add in Caribsea Life Rock as another alternative:

Live Rock: Has the advantage of having the most biodiversity for maximum filtration and generally cycles the fastest since it already has lots of biolife on it. The downsides to Live Rock are that it is arguably the most expensive option AND comes with the additional misfortune of some nasty potential pests (ie Bobbit Worms, Fireworms, Mantis Shrimp, Xanthid Crabs, Aiptasia, Mojano, Vermatid Snails)

Dry Rock: Has the advantage of being the cheapest option and you can shop around with online vendors to get the best possible price since there is no worry about die off on it, so even if it takes longer to ship it won't hurt anything. Also has the benefit of being pest free. The downside is that it takes by far the longest to establish the biofilter since you are literally building it from scratch and you have to cure (ie scrub down the rock well) before use so you don't get a bunch of phosphate leeching issues (cause crazy algae problems if it's not removed). It also doesn't have much biodiversity.

Caribsea Life Rock: It's scrubbed down and cured arognitic based rock with a manmade bacteria coating that becomes live in saltwater. So you get some beneficial bacteria as well as already cured dry rock to boot so it generally cycles about as fast as Live Rock. It is also pest free. The downsides are that it is more expensive than Dry Rock (albeit a bit cheaper than live rock) and doesn't have the biodiversity of regular live rock.

So there are advantages and disadvantages to all, although I do feel that the Caribsea Life Rock is the best compromise, but that is just my opinion (I have used it in both of my tanks with good results).

Thank you so much! This was so helpful. I believe my heater is ok for salt water but I will double check. Should I use my HOB just like I do for freshwater or do I have to modify it some way. The fake corals I found are safe for salt water, yay! What do you think about the urchin. I've heard of pin cushions would those work or no? Right now I have just play sand could I do that with carib sea rock? Again thanks so much!

 

The only Urchin that might possibly work in a tank that size would be a Tuxedo Urchin (sometimes mistakenly called a Pincushion). That said, they eat a lot of algae. I have a Tuxedo in my 90 gallon and he is all over the place with activity, so I would worry about them getting enough to eat in a 15 gallon tank. The other Urchins get huge (ie 8-15 inches) and grow very quickly. They are also known to knock over rockwork, corals, etc. So personally I wouldn't go with one in a tank that size.

Here is my Tuxedo in action to give you an idea:

 

The only Urchin that might possibly work in a tank that size would be a Tuxedo Urchin (sometimes mistakenly called a Pincushion). That said, they eat a lot of algae. I have a Tuxedo in my 90 gallon and he is all over the place with activity, so I would worry about them getting enough to eat in a 15 gallon tank. The other Urchins get huge (ie 8-15 inches) and grow very quickly. They are also known to knock over rockwork, corals, etc. So personally I wouldn't go with one in a tank that size.

Here is my Tuxedo in action to give you an idea:

That's so cool!

 

Thank you so much! This was so helpful. I believe my heater is ok for salt water but I will double check. Should I use my HOB just like I do for freshwater or do I have to modify it some way. The fake corals I found are safe for salt water, yay! What do you think about the urchin. I've heard of pin cushions would those work or no? Right now I have just play sand could I do that with carib sea rock? Again thanks so much!

Modification into a refugium if possible would be best. This way you use macro algae for additional biofiltration and it breeds pods which are great for cleaning up around the tank and provide additional food for the fish.

Here is an idea of how to modify one:

 

Modification into a refugium if possible would be best. This way you use macro algae for additional biofiltration and it breeds pods which are great for cleaning up around the tank and provide additional food for the fish.

Here is an idea of how to modify one:

Tha ks ibe heard of doing this but I need to look more into it

 

BTW thanks for all your help and I think I'm ready to take the leap into the salty side of the hobby lol

 

I think you are confusing HOB Filters with Canister Filters. Canisters can be problematic in that respect on saltwater tanks. HOB Filters are actually a good choice for smaller tanks.

I might be, I’ve been seeing some mixed Info about using a HOB so I was just going off what I’ve heard. I’ve never actually tried it though so you’re probably right. Thanks for correcting me

 

Quick question, can i use my heater that I'm currently using for freshwater, can I use it for saltwater? It doesn't explicitly say but does it matter?

 

Quick question, can i use my heater that I'm currently using for freshwater, can I use it for saltwater? It doesn't explicitly say but does it matter?

Yup! Any aquarium heater can be used for fresh or salt.

 

Yup! Any aquarium heater can be used for fresh or salt.

Thanks! I wasn't sure.

 

Few more questions (sorry)
1. Do you have to have an aquaclear filter to make it a refugium?
2. Do you need a light for a refugium and if so does it need to be a specific light?

So sorry for all the questions but I like to be prepared lol.

 

Yup! Any aquarium heater can be used for fresh or salt.

I wouldn't go that far. I had an Aqueon tank heater that came as part of a tank kit where the salt actually stripped the enamel coating off the heater and i actually had bits of it floating around in my tank. Ever since then I haven't trusted any tank heater that doesn't specifically say it's for salt.

These are the tank heaters in question that I had issues with:

AQUEON Preset Aquarium Heater, 50-watt - Chewy.com

Tetra tank heaters also aren't specifically compatible for saltwater either

 

That is the heater i have so I will test it out and ask around I guess

 

Thanks! I wasn't sure.

I would read the post above there are a few that aren't compatible, so make sure you don't have an Aqueon pre-set tank heater or a tetra tank heater.

 

Few more questions (sorry)
1. Do you have to have an aquaclear filter to make it a refugium?
2. Do you need a light for a refugium and if so does it need to be a specific light?

Also how do you feel about keeping corals? Is it hard? It seems very daunting to me so at least in the beginning I will defiantly only keep fake coral or only rock.

 

You don't absolutely have to have an aquaclear to make a refugium, but it sure makes it easier given their wide open platform with easy access (ie the way the media basket is setup, the clear top for easy light penetration). The Seachem Tidal also has a similar layout which is well suited to the task and the modifications are generally easier. Keep in mind you will need a light for the cheato, but the good news is that pretty much any cheap led will grow it.

As for corals there is a huge variance in the skill level required based on which type of coral you go for. Softies (soft coral) are generally considered the easiest as are some of the easier to keep LPS (Long Polyp Stony) Corals (ie Duncans, Branching Hammers and Frogspawns). SPS (Short Polyp Stony) Corals are considered the most demanding and generally require very low nitrate levels and various different trace elements to be dosed. The earlier ones mentioned aren't much harder to keep than a fish only tank as they tend to prefer dirtier water (ie nitrates in the 10-20ppm range) and low to moderate flow and moderate lighting. Given that the light is freshwater though you would probably want to upgrade it in the future before going to corals as it not just that it's not intense enough but they tend to also be the wrong spectrum for coral growth.

Either way what I would recommend is sticking to your plan with FOWLR and then when you feel more confident with that starting out with a single cheap soft coral fragment to test out and see how it goes, that way you limit the potential damage if something goes wrong. Coral Frags IMHO are really the way to go in this hobby for several reasons: 1) They are generally much cheaper than the big colonies 2) They are easier to spot potential pests early on 3) It's much easier and more satisfying IMHO to track their growth over time.

Case and point here was a little Frogspawn Frag I bought from my LFS for $20 in May of 2019 (just a few days after I added it to my tank):

Here is the exact same coral 14 months later in July of 2020:

 

That is the heater i have so I will test it out and ask around I guess

Which heater do you have? If it's the fixed temp one I would definitely go with a different one, not just for the corrosion issue but also for the fact that you really need an adjustable temp tank heater for a saltwater tank since you want to keep the temp as stable as possible and things can vary quite a bit based on the year (unless you don't live in a seasonal climate).

 

Which heater do you have? If it's the fixed temp one I would definitely go with a different one, not just for the corrosion issue but also for the fact that you really need an adjustable temp tank heater for a saltwater tank since you want to keep the temp as stable as possible and things can vary quite a bit based on the year (unless you don't live in a seasonal climate).

Ahh I have a aquaeon preset heater

 

Ahh I have a aquaeon preset heater

Yeah, definitely replace it. Not good at all for saltwater for both reasons mentioned.

 

Hi again, what is salt creep? Is it bad or just annoying to clean? Thanks

 

Hi again, what is salt creep? Is it bad or just annoying to clean? Thanks

Salt Creep is the salt reside left from water movement. It creates a crusty salt residue all around which becomes a persistent pain. You will always have some to deal with but certain things make it much worse (ie bubbler). Salt creep is generally more of a pain but can become problematic if it is left long term on things like wiring. If you clean it every few weeks though it's generally not a problem and on a tank that small it shouldn't take long to clean.

 

Salt Creep is the salt reside left from water movement. It creates a crusty salt residue all around which becomes a persistent pain. You will always have some to deal with but certain things make it much worse (ie bubbler). Salt creep is generally more of a pain but can become problematic if it is left long term on things like wiring. If you clean it every few weeks though it's generally not a problem and on a tank that small it shouldn't take long to clean.

Thank you