I'm pretty sure this is not good

I'm worried that my fish may not be ok when I get home from work tonight after my tank had cycled I did a 50 % change on Saturday to get my nitrates down, and went & got 2 beautiful guppies. I tested the water 24 hrs later on Sunday and results were good. the "boys" were swimming around great, full of energy & eating.

So this morning I went to turn the lights on, and couldn't find them. I went to get ready for work and had my daughter feed them, when I went & looked, they were both swimming in one place at the top of the tank. I can't say they were gasping, it's hard to see their little mouths. I had read somewhere that it's because of the water so I quickly tested. Ammonia was 0, nitrites had spiked up to 1.6 and nitrates were the same as they were yesterday. What could cause this sudden spike and what can I do? I quickly changed 2 buckets of water (All I had time for as my daughter was going to be late for school) I added the chlorine treatment & added stability. When I get home tonight I will test again & change water as needed.

What else can I do so I don't lose these guys?

 

still not looking good, came home and they were swimming at the top just swimming in one spot. Tests show the same readings as this am, do I do a massive water change? and go buy something like Prime if I can find it?

 

do I do a massive water change? and go buy something like Prime if I can find it?

Yes, on both counts. Might want to vac the gravel as well, and see if you pick up large amounts of food debris. I am wondering if a large amount of food got dumped in with them?

 

i've only had them since Saturday, barely fed them, but I was using food to cycle with, so maybe if there is some food handing out in there ...

If I gravel vac tho won't it mess (more) with my cycle? I'm going to head to the store for Prime & see if that makes a difference. I changed the water approx 50% and one seems a little more active now swimming all over the place again, the other was activer than it was before

*crosses fingers*

 

ok got the prime added the "emergency amount" how often should I add it, it doesn't really say, just with water changes on there and then the emergency dose. and will my tests read normal when I test the water? or will the prime binding to the nitrite affect the readings and mess me up?

also how long till I notice a difference? they seem to be doing the same as before, staying at the top in one place

 

bad news looks like one may not make it, it's lying in a plant, barely moving, guess I was too late unless there is a miracle

could anything else have happened besides my water? Should I test for something else? :'(

 

I think I have lost one, I can't find him anywhere tho, unless hubby scooped him out this a.m., the other one is still alive, pretty much swimming in place at the very top, but he did go to eat, but I have a feeling he may not last long. I don't know where I wnet wrong

I don't know what to do now, do I keep changing water or will the prime help take care of the spikes?

I'm so confused on how to proceed

 

Sorry you lost one. :'(

Just to clarify...you are certain the tank was cycled before the fish went in? How long did that take? Have you tested water right out of the tap?

For the time being, if you are still spiking nitrite that high, I would keep doing 50% water changes pretty regularly. The Prime will help provide some buffering for the fish, but you don't want that level to continue to build. Water changes will help bring it back down. Did you find the dead fish? You want to be sure...if he is dead and stays in the tank you could end up with an ammonia spike too!

To answer an earlier question: the Prime in the water will confuse the readings...your tests will still show nitrite, but a lot of it will actually be "bound" by the Prime.

 

With Prime, once you dose the tank originally (which you did) you only add enough Prime to treat the amount of water you are adding to the tank. So if you add change out 1 Gal of water you would only add 2 drops of Prime to the bucket before putting it into the tank. The Prime won't do anything about the spikes, only detoxify them, but you still have to deal with them. So water changes (25% per day) to keep them under control while you deal with this mini-cycle will be helpful. The Prime will not confuse your test readings to any extent that you need to worry about. Yes it will bind up the toxic parts of the nitrite, but it won't give you a false high reading when you don't have one. It will just mean you will have a lingering reading of probably around 0.25ppm or so for an extra few days, though with water changes that might not even be the case as bound up nitrite is removed through water changes as well. So I wouldn't worry about the test results. Also do a vacuum of 25% of your tank substrate. Since you cycled with fish food there is probably a lot of it still in the substrate that might be making a lot of ammonia which is being converted to nitrite and there aren't enough nitrite eating bacteria in the tank yet (they are growing each day just not fast enough it seems at the moment). Wait a few days and then vacuum another 25%, wait a few more days then another 25%, then a few more days and then do the final 25%. This will give plenty of time for things to adjust in the tank between vacuuming sessions. Do you have a hang on back filter on that tank? Also do you have an airstone in the tank? If they are hanging out at the top of the tank, it could be a sign of not enough oxygen in the water. If you have a hang on back filter then see if you have a flow control on the intake tube and if you do make sure it's at maximum. Also don't fill the tank all the way up to the outflow of the filter, let it be about 1/2" away or so (enough to actually get some splashing). This splashing will help churn things up a bit and get some aeration happening. The only thing you can do is keep up with the water changes and hope for the best until you get through this mini-cycle. Good Luck!

 

I haven't seen the fish, I'm at work so can't do anything till I get home tonight
I do have a filter hanging on the back, and it's at full capacity, as well have a bubble wall too, so I hope oxygen wouldn't be an issue.

The tank was cycled, but I think maybe my probelm is with my tester kit giving odd readings, it's a Hagen brand (liquid not strips) and the lowest it goes to is .3. I saw the lfs has the master kits in from API so I will go grab one today and test when I get home first, before I do any water changes or vaccing. Then I guess I should vac and quarter & change more water (and hopefully find our missing fish) then retreat the new water with prime

I have not tested the tap water, I do know it has chlorine as I can smell it, but I always treated with Aquasafe before I put it in. When my cycle first started, my Ammonia spiked like normal and there were no nitrites until a few days later, so I assumed that it the water was decent.

A thought hit me - the area where they are floating is kinda near the heater... can heat be an issue? I have it set at 27°C (81°F) When I did my water change yesterday I made sure it was at 27° before it went in

Wow raising kids is almost easier :-\

 

No it wouldn't seem that oxygen is an issue. Do you have live plants or fake in the tank? I don't think they would want warmer water then what you have it set at, so that shouldn't be an issue. Are you using salt in the tank? If so, how much? I would be interested to hear the results of the API kit to see if they differ from the Hagen readings, because something sounds off. Check your pH too while you are at it, and also check the pH of your tap water to see how different they are (if at all).

 

I have a combo of plastic & silk plants in there. No salt, didn't think guppies would need it

Yes, It would be interesting to see how different the API is from Hagen. The master kit has ph test I think too? I can't remember what I saw

I just checked with hubby, he didn't remove any fish so the other one is still in there somewhere. I think I will sneak away from work to get the kit then test as soon as I get home to see what my readings are. My daughter wasn't to go to the lfs tonight as they do a shark feed that is open to the public, so I can grab anything else I need while I'm there.

Hubby says it's cuz I put so much into the water to make it better for the fish *kicks hubby* All that's in there is prime from yesterday, aquasafe from when I did my water change earlier yesterday and stability super diluted from last weekend and I've done 2 50% water changes since then

 

They don't "need" salt, but livebearers can live with a little bit. Some people swear by it while others don't use it and both ways people have successfully raised them. I was just wanted to rule it out as a problem.

Yes the API kit has a pH test. It has 2 actually... a low test and a high test. You only need to use one, but you need to find out which one you are to use. Start with the regular test (not the high range) and see what color you get. If it falls into one of the color ranges on the card then no need to do the high test at all. If it seems to be at 7.6 (the highest the regular test can read) or maybe even higher then do the high pH test. If the High pH test shows a color somewhere on the card then that is the test you should use. If it shows it's lowest color (7.4 is the High range lower value) then you most likely have around 7.5 and can stick with the regular pH test.

If one is actually dead in the tank then that is a must find situation as that could lead to all kinds of ammonia problems as the body decays. So do your best to find it.

As for the Prime and AquaSafe, just use one or the other. There is no need to use both. The Prime does more then the AquaSafe so I would just stick with it for now (it's what I use too) and shelve the AquaSafe for use at another time. As for Stability, I used it and didn't see any real benefit to my tank. Use it don't use it... it's up to you.

 

Ok got the kit, I was wondering about the ph and high ph and the difference. That cleared it up, thanks. When I get home tonight I will test, & post my results then do a water change/gravel vac 25% is I guess and go from there. hopefully the last one is still alive and the other one was hopfully sleeping in *crosses fingers & toes & eyes*

when I vac the gravel, do I just do the surface or dig around in the gravel

 

Push the large plastic end of the siphon down into the gravel (once the flow of water is already going that is) and you will see all kinds of particles start to flow up into chamber. Leave it there and don't move it until the water inside starts to run clear. Then pull it up and move to a spot right next to it and again you'll see the particles. Once it runs clear move and repeat until you've vac'ed the area you want to get clean or your bucket if full of water (watch out for that last bit there because you can get distracted that you don't notice it overflowing).

 

okey dokey, I just have to say I love th apI kits better easier to tell the colours apart then on the hagen ones which are different shades of pink

ok my readings are
ammonia 0 YAY
nitrite .50 OH OH
Nitrate 5 YAY
Ph is high at 8.2 same in tank as outta the tap, nasty city water

so I need to get this ph down and change more water to get these nitrites down. so I will change water and vac

any suggestions on ph reduction?

Also I did find our missing fish and he has moved on. He's been removed. I'm not sure if I'm just noticing this or not, but the other's tail looks kinda ragged on the end and he has poop stirngs now, is it just just stress??

Please help!!

 

update: gravel vaccing was nasty, pulled up a lot so will do some more in a few days

Got a ph reducer from apI so going to use that, also some melafix. I did see that some of the tank mates at the lfs had it too, so no surprise I guess there

 

I would not play with the pH at all. Just let it be at 8.2 and the fish will adapt. Chances are the local pet store has the same water so their fish are used to it. Playing with the pH can lead to all kinds of problems and all it takes is one quick change in that and the fish will most likely not live to tell the tale. So leave it and let's just worry about the other things. The ammonia at 0 is great and the nitrite at only 0.5ppm is ok too especially since you are using Prime (remember that little bit of bound material that I said would linger for a bit... that might be it ) Only if it goes back up to 1 or higher would I worry about it. Otherwise it will be eaten in due time. As for the frayed fins, that is probably fin rot due to the stress he's been going through. Just keep treating it as you are and keep the tank in the low 80's for temp as that helps to I believe (not a disease expert as I've been fortunate enough to never have to treat for one yet). Keep on track with the cleaning and testing to make sure things stay nice and steady now and you might be almost out of the tunnel here.

 

hubby tested the water from the sink again and said it was more towards the 7 on the ph scale, so I will keep an eye on it and see if it fluctuates at all. when I bring home a new fish, would it be good to test the Flss's bagged water to see if it's a huge difference?

"Lucky" as we now call him seems to be still kicking around. He has moments were he acts normal then others where the just stays in one place, but it's recovery time now for him. will keep testing and bringing down the nitrites with water changes as I can. My daughter really wants more fish, but I am very firm on the "wait till I get this water thing handled".

Is it a good idea to use melafix when introducing new fish? I read it on the bottle. I'm thinking they probably had it at the lfs and being stressed and in a nitrite spike made it awful for them. I don't want to have to deal with it all the time, lots of the fish at the lfs looked great, just Lucky's tank mates did not

 

Be sure on the tap water pH because if your tap is 7 but your tank is 8 then that is a problem as there is something in your tank that is making the pH rise. There are many things that could do that, but it might be a simple fix of removing a single decoration that could make things even out again. Your tank should be fairly close to your tap pH if not lower. Once you go to once a week water changes and the nitrate has a chance to rise, I've noticed that my tank slowly worked its way to 7 pH where my tap tests at 7.5 pH but this took 3 months to happen. In any event, check both to be sure, but check your tank before the water change not after.

As for the melafix, don't add new fish while you are treating another. Last thing you would want is a healthy fish to become infected with anything from a sick fish. Or worse yet, add a new fish that has a different sickness and now your sick fish is doubly infected. When you are done with the treatment, get a filter bag with Activated Carbon in it and run that in your filter for a few days so it removes all traces of the medication. Then you can dump the AC and keep using the filter cloth if you like.

As to the pH of the water from the pet store water, yes that is what I do too. It is important to know if the pet store water is very close to your tank or way off. Putting a fish into the tank if the pet store water is 7 and your tank is 8 would kill it in a matter of minutes as it would literally burn the fish. After floating the bag with the new fish for 20 minutes to get it used to the temp of the tank, put a cup of tank water into the bag with the fish. Wait 5 minutes and then add another cup of tank water to the bag. Wait another 5 minutes and add another cup. Keep doing this for at least 30 minutes (longer if the difference in pH is more then +/-0.3 pH 10 minutes for each 0.1 difference should be fine). Then add the fish by dumping the water from the bag into a bucket while holding your fish net out to catch the fish and put just the fish into the tank and not the water from the petstore.

 

could all that extra food have caused the ph to change? I never tested it before yesterday so I don't know what it was like before I started adding the food to the tank. I didn't think decorations could do that!!

 

I don't know if food could cause pH to change as the decay is more of a waste issue rather then a pH changing issue. As for decorations, it depends on the decoration. Plastic or resin decorations won't do anything, but we had one member add large shells to their tank which (if they are real and not plastic) will cause the pH to rise. I know someone who put a 12" marble statue into their tank only to find his pH went up a few weeks later. So yeah depending on what the decoration is, it can cause problems. Other things like too much aeration can also cause pH to rise, on the flip side people who have live plants and add CO2 to the tank find that their pH sometimes drops. So there are a lot of reasons why your pH could be different then the tap, but finding out what is causing the difference is important.

 

well my plants are all plastic or silk, I do have one bridge in there, not sure what it's made of, I think resin, and a hollow log with silk plants on it that I think is resin as well. I got them at petsmart, I can go look there and see if it lists it

 

I know the one's you are refering too (spent a lot of time at PetSmart looking at all the decorations with my 5 year old myself ) and yeah they are all resin or some sort of plastic (i.e. not a cause of the problem). What kind of gravel/sand do you have in your tank? Any little shell bits in it? How many airstones or bubble wands (or anything of that nature) do you have running in the tank if any?

 

I have gravel, it's natural as in not coloured, rinsed it like crazy before we put it in. I don' think there are shells in it, the rocks are fairly big pebbles. I have a bubble wall on the back takes up i'd say 1/3-1/2 of the back wall. A whisper air pump to go with them

 

Lucky is still kicking, tested water again
Ammonia 0
nitrite .25 going down
nitrate 5
ph 8

he's still lethargic and likes staying at the surface, hopefully he will feel better soon