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I'm In A Pickle, Septicaemia?

Discussion in 'Freshwater Fish Disease' started by Süßwasserfisch, Apr 18, 2019.

  1. SüßwasserfischValued MemberMember

    I currently have a breeding pair of angels in a 75 and am a month out of treating for camallanus worms. Took 4 months but I'm satisfied they are dealt with. Unfortunately I have a new issue. From my observation it appears my female has Hemorrhagic septicemia? I need help. i Used API erithromycin to take care of it and after two full doses it appears to be getting worse. They have 2 female Rams 10 otos and 9 Cory's as tankmates. It seems one thing after another with these angels? Any help or advice is welcome 15556415925845560950757648345791.jpg15556416626484344328629569341872.jpg15556415925845560950757648345791.jpg15556416626484344328629569341872.jpg15556416778792282476069850044733.jpg
  2. richie.pWell Known MemberMember

    @angelcraze helped me with flying colours she should pick this up

  3. SüßwasserfischValued MemberMember

    I definitely need the help

  4. AquaticJFishlore VIPMember

    HS is viral unfortunately, I wish API would stop labeling incorrectly.

    However, this is not that. HS would look like streaks of blood usually on the stomach and fins. This looks more like possible gill flukes or ammonia burn.

  5. SFGiantsGuyWell Known MemberMember

    J. I just checked out your YouTube channel. SUper awesome job dude!
  6. angelcrazeWell Known MemberMember

    Hi, I'm sorry about your prolonged issues. Glad you got the callamanus worms dealt with though! They are nasty.

    Sorry I'm not sure about the redness, but there's a cyst or something on the right side of the angel's face. I give up trying to diagnose these cysts based on pics, but I would suspect lymphosistis if it was my fish. It's a virus that exhibits itself in stressful conditions. If it is Lymph, it's not deadly, but a cosmetic issue. The red gills wouldn't be lymph though, so might be something else.

    I have a question, how old is this angel? Is it red on the other side? This is a blushing angel, so in the juvenile stage, the gills will appear pink on the outside until the skin hardens and they develop glittery guanine. The pics aren't clear enough for me to tell unfortunately, but maybe you can.
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2019
  7. SüßwasserfischValued MemberMember

    I greatly appreciate the information. I was pretty sure that the gills weren't the issue. A day after this it had white gelatinous stuff coming off it but was worried to dose again for fear of stressing my other fish. The only quarantine I have is a 10gallon. (Which is my mistake) so I did what LRB had suggested and used mulm from a sponge filter on one of my other tanks. After a day she seemed to be more energetic but the thing on her head looked worse then this morning I came in and she was dead. My other angel in the tank now looks like this?? Please help haha
    seriously though

    15563254804668611147044305073610.jpg15563255111801463095540500309577.jpg his belly is huge all other occupants are in seemingly good health 15563255111801463095540500309577.jpg15563255111801463095540500309577.jpg
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 26, 2019
  8. angelcrazeWell Known MemberMember

    I'm very sorry for the loss of your angel :( Your other angel unfortunately looks puffy. His eyes are bulgy. It looks bacterial and like he's retaining fluids I'm so sorry. Stop using the meds pls. They are upsetting your bacterial balance. Put simply, fresh clean water is the best you can do for him.

    However I reluctantly have to say I've never had success treating this kind of bloat. I suppose you could try to relieve fluid pressure build up with Epsom salt bath or dips, but if his infection is systematic, and if the kidneys fail, well....
    How is he today?

    So, 10 gallons is too small for an angelfish. I know you know :( It would better to treat him in a higher clear tote bin then a 10g for the next time.

    To start though
    Have you tested the parameters in the 75g? Can you pls post them?

    If you haven't recently done a water change, I would change 50% right away.
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2019
  9. SüßwasserfischValued MemberMember

    I feel it all stems from the worms. This tank was doing great before them. I am aware that tank is way too small. I keep my tanks on the low side population wise. I stopped medicating after the initial treatment though. I personally like just doing a ton of water changes or the way lrb had suggested. But it hasn't seemed to make and effect on this last angel. My parameters are as follows: pH 7.3 gh is over 180 kh is at about 120 nitrites are undetectable and nitrates are below .2
    My temp runs 80.7 during the day. Weekly water changes of about 30%
  10. SüßwasserfischValued MemberMember

    I did a water change as advised he's been living with this since the end of the treatment for camallanus so about 21/2 3 weeks but after medicating I feel like that stressed my fish even more. I now have an oto with a large white spot on it's back but swimming around and acting normal and one of my Rams has a patchy red on her scales....any advice I have done two 50% water changes and two 30% wtaer changes since reading this post yesterday morning
  11. angelcrazeWell Known MemberMember

    Thanks for the info. I don't know what to do! Those symptoms are all over the place. I continued to lose fish that were too far gone to callamanus after finishing treatment. They were either full of internal knots (bloated but not puffy) or they wasted. I didn't have bacterial problems except for a wasting angel in his final days before diagnosis. Bacterial problems could definitely happen as a result to stress, but don't know how to treat an already weakened fish.

    I've seen @Whitewolf has good advice, maybe he has some for you.
  12. SüßwasserfischValued MemberMember

    Thanks! That's how I feel! I'm going to do my best with the angel but the oto and the ram could definitely be quarantined
  13. SüßwasserfischValued MemberMember

    I think it was the stress of the camallanus medication and then trying to treat the cyst has all the inhabitants highly stressed.
  14. WhitewolfWell Known MemberMember

    If your raising angels you probably should have on hand levimasole and some medicated food containing metronidazole.
    Levimasole powder treats internal nematodes, camallanus, capallaria, a few others
    It also will kill any external worms, like flukes, skin or gill. 1/4 teaspoon treats 100 gallons, treat for 12-24 hours then do a large water change.

    Metronidazole is for internal protozoa parasites, like those that cause hexitima and spinnocerus.
    I would treat once a month with each if I was a serious angelfish or chiclid keeper. But I am also kind of a medicate first ask questions later person. Better to treat as a preventative than to loose fish when its too late (as it is now)
  15. angelcrazeWell Known MemberMember

    Thanks. OP has treated for callamanus 3 weeks ago. Not sure which dewormer treatment was used. One angelfish passed away with a cyst on its face followed by "white gelatinous stuff coming off it" Friday and the other looks bloated with infection. One ottocat has a growth and a ram cichlid has patchy redness on skin. I believe OP used two full doses of API erithromycin without any success. Do you have any suggestions for remaining fish besides a clean tank and fresh water?
  16. WhitewolfWell Known MemberMember

    Terramycin (Oxytetracycline) is a very good broad spectrum Gram + and Gram - antibiotic that is cheap and works best in flake or pellet form
  17. SüßwasserfischValued MemberMember

    These are the treatments I used for the worms and then two doses of erythromycin. Since then I've done water changes everyday large and small. My one angel is still alive still bloated the red patchyness has seemed to have gone from my ram and unfortunately the oto did not make it here's the angel 15568379696023235484272387447981.jpg and the ram
  18. WhitewolfWell Known MemberMember

    I think you are dealing with flukes. Then again, im dealing with flukes which may be why I think you are dealing with flukes.
    Really many diseases present the same, so its pretty hard to know. Cover your bases for parasites/bacteria and hope for the best sometimes all you can do.
    Many fancy bred store bought fish just don't make it...….
  19. 86 ssinitWell Known MemberMember

    10 gal tank is fine for qt for an angelfish. If medicating it’s less meds used. I qt my angel in a 5gal for fin rot. Was in it for 4 weeks. He’s cured and back in main tank. Qt with what you have. Worst thing is to medicate a whole tank. Allways qt new fish and if your into it medicate new fish in qt. Just to make sure nothings in them.
  20. SüßwasserfischValued MemberMember

    That was my thoughts process I'm having in 10 gallon for a qt for when I first got the fish I didn't even know what camallanus worms were and honestly thought they were part of the finjs on the betta when we put her into the tank it wasn't until I saw my angels with them that I became aware :(