I’m a noob & didn’t know about cycling. Please help me save my daughter’s Betta fish.

velospeed

EDIT: we mixed up nitrite and nitrate readings on OP. Both nitrate (10) and nitrite (0) are at safe levels.
Hello everyone,

First and foremost, thanks for all the helpful and informative posts here. It has been a helpful resource, but I’ve made a bunch a f mistakes and need an intervention. I purchased an 8 gallon Betta tank for my 4 y/o daughter back on 10/3. Two weeks later, we noticed the fish wasn’t swimming much and it died the next day.

Foolishly, I replaced the fish the same day with an identical one, and added a Pleco and Cory to distract her from the slight difference in the Beta’s appearance. She noticed anyway—so I told her the fish was growing. Our cat just died a few months ago and my daughter still talks about it daily, so I was trying to protect her from more sadness.

Now the second Betta is sick, and probably the Cory and Pleco too. I’ve tried to adjust the tank toxicity by reading this forum over the last two weeks. Per a “Nitrite too high” thread here, I ordered Seachem Prime and Tetra SafeStart+. It just arrived yesterday but while searching for guidance here, I read about ammonia and the cycling stages. Now I am unsure of what to do next, and hoping for your guidance. I’ve copy/pasted the emergency template below and am heading to PetSmart for an ammonia test kit this evening.

Tank:Top Fin® Dazzle Aquarium Starter Kit - 8 Gallon, 7 Color Changing LEDs | fish Starter Kits | PetSmart
What is the water volume of the tank? 8gal
How long has the tank been running? 8 weeks
Does it have a filter? Small integrated
Does it have a heater? No
What is the water temperature? Room temp 71-73 F
What is the entire stocking of this tank? (Please list all fish and inverts.)
1 Beta
1 Plecostomus
1 Cory Catfish

Maintenance
How often do you change the water? Once during 5-6 weeks, then daily for a week (last week) and again yesterday.
How much of the water do you change? 20-30%, and two 50% changes last week when nitrite was off the chart high.
What do you use to treat your water? API StressCoat+
Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water? Yes, vacuumed a couple of times.

*Parameters - Very Important
Did you cycle your tank before adding fish? NO
What do you use to test the water? Tetra Easy Strips 6in1
What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.

Ammonia: unknown, going to buy test kit now
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 10 (sorry, wife mixed these up on OP)
pH: 8-8.2

Feeding
How often do you feed your fish? Lately, barely, but 2x/day during first 5-6 weeks.
How much do you feed your fish? 4-6 flakes
What brand of food do you feed your fish? Omega One Betta Buffet Flakes
Do you feed frozen or freeze-dried foods? No

Illness & Symptoms
How long have you had this fish? 5-6 weeks
How long ago did you first notice these symptoms? 2 weeks
In a few words, can you explain the symptoms? Both Betta and Cory were very active swimmers. Two weeks ago, we noticed they’re barely swimming and the Betta was hanging out in the top corner near the filter feed. After several water changes over three days, the Cory seemed to recover but the Betta did not. One week later, now the Cory has stopped swimming again.
Have you started any treatment for the illness? Not yet
Was your fish physically ill or injured upon purchase? No
How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all? Lethargic and hanging out near the surface in the same spot all day long.

Thank you for your help!
 

StarGirl

Hi! Welcome to the forum and asking us for help with your fish.

The 1st thing I would do is do a 75% water change to get those Nitrites down. That is most lethal to fish. Once you dose with the Prime when you change water I wouldn't use the stress coat along with it since they are both dechlorinators. I would definitely start with a big water change. You may need to do it tomorrow too.

The next thing I would do is return the Pleco when you go to get your ammonia test. They are big poopers and is not going to help your water right now and your tank is not big enough for a pleco anyhow.
 
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Bettybrown922

Hello everyone,

First and foremost, thanks for all the helpful and informative posts here. It has been a helpful resource, but I’ve made a bunch a f mistakes and need an intervention. I purchased an 8 gallon Betta tank for my 4 y/o daughter back on 10/3. Two weeks later, we noticed the fish wasn’t swimming much and it died the next day.

Foolishly, I replaced the fish the same day with an identical one, and added a Pleco and Cory to distract her from the slight difference in the Beta’s appearance. She noticed anyway—so I told her the fish was growing. Our cat just died a few months ago and my daughter still talks about it daily, so I was trying to protect her from more sadness.

Now the second Betta is sick, and probably the Cory and Pleco too. I’ve tried to adjust the tank toxicity by reading this forum over the last two weeks. Per a “Nitrite too high” thread here, I ordered Seachem Prime and Tetra SafeStart+. It just arrived yesterday but while searching for guidance here, I read about ammonia and the cycling stages. Now I am unsure of what to do next, and hoping for your guidance. I’ve copy/pasted the emergency template below and am heading to PetSmart for an ammonia test kit this evening.

Tank:Top Fin® Dazzle Aquarium Starter Kit - 8 Gallon, 7 Color Changing LEDs | fish Starter Kits | PetSmart
What is the water volume of the tank? 8gal
How long has the tank been running? 8 weeks
Does it have a filter? Small integrated
Does it have a heater? No
What is the water temperature? Room temp 71-73 F
What is the entire stocking of this tank? (Please list all fish and inverts.)
1 Beta
1 Plecostomus
1 Cory Catfish

Maintenance
How often do you change the water? Once during 5-6 weeks, then daily for a week (last week) and again yesterday.
How much of the water do you change? 20-30%, and two 50% changes last week when nitrite was off the chart high.
What do you use to treat your water? API StressCoat+
Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water? Yes, vacuumed a couple of times.

*Parameters - Very Important
Did you cycle your tank before adding fish? NO
What do you use to test the water? Tetra Easy Strips 6in1
What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.

Ammonia: unknown, going to buy test kit now
Nitrite: 10
Nitrate: 0
pH: 8-8.2

Feeding
How often do you feed your fish? Lately, barely, but 2x/day during first 5-6 weeks.
How much do you feed your fish? 4-6 flakes
What brand of food do you feed your fish? Omega One Betta Buffet Flakes
Do you feed frozen or freeze-dried foods? No

Illness & Symptoms
How long have you had this fish? 5-6 weeks
How long ago did you first notice these symptoms? 2 weeks
In a few words, can you explain the symptoms? Both Betta and Cory were very active swimmers. Two weeks ago, we noticed they’re barely swimming and the Betta was hanging out in the top corner near the filter feed. After several water changes over three days, the Cory seemed to recover but the Betta did not. One week later, now the Cory has stopped swimming again.
Have you started any treatment for the illness? Not yet
Was your fish physically ill or injured upon purchase? No
How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all? Lethargic and hanging out near the surface in the same spot all day long.

Thank you for your help!
Yeah, your tank needs cycled asap. If you don't know anyone with a cycled mature tank, you can buy a pre-seeded sponge filter from angelsplus. I did that with my last tank and was thrilled with how quickly it cycled my tank. In the meantime, I'd do a water change daily to keep ammonia and nitrite down. Once you've seeded the tank, stop the water changes until it's cycled. Good luck!
 
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Dippiedee

Hi, welcome to Fishlore

Alright, so, lots to unpack here. Bettas are tropical fish and need heated tanks. Temperature range should be 78 - 80. As I'm sure you know by now, the ammonia and nirite build up from the uncycled tank with very few to no water changes coupled with the low temperature is what killed the first betta.

I see you're going to purchase a test kit, that is great. Knowing the ammonia level will paramount to your success. First thing I suggest is buying some Seachem Prime; this will dechlorinate and detoxify the ammonia and nitirte. It will safe guard your fish during the cycling process. Bettas are very hardy so definitely capable of coping with it.

Next thing is the bad news; this tank is too small for plecos and corydoras. Corydoras are actually schooling fish that need to be in groups of 6 or more. If you can't get a bigger tank (it would need to be 20 gallons at least) they will really need to be returned to the shop or rehomed.

I don't want to overload you with infomation, I think its best to talk you through the process once you're prepped with prime and a test kit. Until you have those; I suggest 50% daily water changes to keep levels down.
 
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Lucy

Hi welcome to FishLore!!
You are not alone, most of us stared out the same way!

Great advice above. Good luck!
 
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velospeed

Thank you. Upon reading your suggestion to get nitrites down, I realized my wife mixed up the values in her text message. It’s at 0, with nitrates at 10, so both presumably safe, right? I’ll ask the local fish store (not PetSmart) if they’ll take back the small Pleco.)

Hi! Welcome to the forum and asking us for help with your fish.

The 1st thing I would do is do a 75% water change to get those Nitrites down. That is most lethal to fish. Once you dose with the Prime when you change water I wouldn't use the stress coat along with it since they are both dechlorinators. I would definitely start with a big water change. You may need to do it tomorrow too.

The next thing I would do is return the Pleco when you go to get your ammonia test. They are big poopers and is not going to help your water right now and your tank is not big enough for a pleco anyhow.
 
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StarGirl

Thank you. Upon reading your suggestion to get nitrites down, I realized my wife mixed up the values in her text message. It’s at 0, with nitrates at 10, so both presumably safe, right? I’ll ask the local fish store (not PetSmart) if they’ll take back the small Pleco.)
Yes those are good numbers......phew! Interested in your ammonia readings though!
 
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velospeed

Thanks so much. I’ll have the ammonia test within a few hours. I have the SeaChem Prime but I’ll hold off on adding until posting the ammonia level. I’ll also purchase a thermometer while there because I’m guessing on the temp and the lamp may be heating it.

Hi, welcome to Fishlore

Alright, so, lots to unpack here. Bettas are tropical fish and need heated tanks. Temperature range should be 78 - 80. As I'm sure you know by now, the ammonia and nirite build up from the uncycled tank with very few to no water changes coupled with the low temperature is what killed the first betta.

I see you're going to purchase a test kit, that is great. Knowing the ammonia level will paramount to your success. First thing I suggest is buying some Seachem Prime; this will dechlorinate and detoxify the ammonia and nitirte. It will safe guard your fish during the cycling process. Bettas are very hardy so definitely capable of coping with it.

Next thing is the bad news; this tank is too small for plecos and corydoras. Corydoras are actually schooling fish that need to be in groups of 6 or more. If you can't get a bigger tank (it would need to be 20 gallons at least) they will really need to be returned to the shop or rehomed.

I don't want to overload you with infomation, I think its best to talk you through the process once you're prepped with prime and a test kit. Until you have those; I suggest 50% daily water changes to keep levels down.
 
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Dippiedee

Thanks so much. I’ll have the ammonia test within a few hours. I have the SeaChem Prime but I’ll hold off on adding until posting the ammonia level. I’ll also purchase a thermometer while there because I’m guessing on the temp and the lamp may be heating it.

Okay great, update us when you've got the ammonia levels
 
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velospeed

Unfortunately we just moved here (Cape Cod) and don’t really know anyone yet, let alone with a mature tank.

Yeah, your tank needs cycled asap. If you don't know anyone with a cycled mature tank, you can buy a pre-seeded sponge filter from angelsplus. I did that with my last tank and was thrilled with how quickly it cycled my tank. In the meantime, I'd do a water change daily to keep ammonia and nitrite down. Once you've seeded the tank, stop the water changes until it's cycled. Good luck!



Yeah, your tank needs cycled asap. If you don't know anyone with a cycled mature tank, you can buy a pre-seeded sponge filter from angelsplus. I did that with my last tank and was thrilled with how quickly it cycled my tank. In the meantime, I'd do a water change daily to keep ammonia and nitrite down. Once you've seeded the tank, stop the water changes until it's cycled. Good luck!
 
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StarGirl

Thanks so much. I’ll have the ammonia test within a few hours. I have the SeaChem Prime but I’ll hold off on adding until posting the ammonia level. I’ll also purchase a thermometer while there because I’m guessing on the temp and the lamp may be heating it.
I would just switch to using the Prime with every water change because it will help if there are any freaky spikes afterwards. It is really the only thing you need to use unless you need ferts for plants.
 
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AggressiveAquatics

Thank you. Upon reading your suggestion to get nitrites down, I realized my wife mixed up the values in her text message. It’s at 0, with nitrates at 10, so both presumably safe, right? I’ll ask the local fish store (not PetSmart) if they’ll take back the small Pleco.)
That’s strange that you only have 10 nitrates with that stocking. Do you have live plants? And is it just a common pleco because those grow up to a foot long
 
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Flyfisha

As I read this post . I read of a successfully cycled tank with no nitrites and some nitrates that are low because of recent water changes.

The pleco will have to be removed. Your wife and daughter can be told it was returned.
The corydoras should have a group of at least 4 of its own species. This would fully stock the tank.

Edit I now think it’s not a good idea to put a school of corydoras in only and 8 gallon sorry.
 
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velospeed

Thank you so much guys. Not sure what kind of Pleco it is—it’s small, barely 2.5” long. The Cory, 1.5” long, is my favorite and I would be thrilled to add a few more if an 8gal tanks is large enough?
 

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Flyfisha

That looks like a sterbai corydoras? One of the slightly bigger corydoras .
To be honest after thinking about this for 5 minutes even 3 is pushing the limits of stocking in an 8 gallon. I am sorry I ever wrote that it could be done . I think I have mislead you on that.
 
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velospeed

No real plants—just three silks. Unsure of Pleco breed but posted a pic.
That’s strange that you only have 10 nitrates with that stocking. Do you have live plants? And is it just a common pleco because those grow up to a foot long
All good, I’m easily excited, but can adjust quickly so no apology needed!
That looks like a sterbai corydoras? One of the slightly bigger corydoras .
To be honest after thinking about this for 5 minutes even 3 is pushing the limits of stocking in an 8 gallon. I am sorry I ever wrote that it could be done . I think I have mislead you on that.
 
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StarGirl

I will add as a tip not to change the filter cartridge every month as they say on the box. Just rinse it good in the water you take out doing your water changes. Most of your "good" beneficial bacteria are in your filter and on that cartridge! If you change it, it will throw away all of the good stuff you have been trying to grow. Then you may have spikes every month and we don't want that.
 
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velospeed

Ammonia at 0-.5
pH still seems pink/high, but everything else on the strip looks good.
I bought a 50 watt heater to ensure the water is warm enough.
Next steps, just wait and test again tomorrow?
 

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mattgirl

I will recommend you invest in an API Master Freshwater Test Kit. Test for pH (both low and high), ammonia, nitrites and nitrates are including in the test kit. Test strips have their place but once opened they can start degrading and before long is is possible you will get inaccurate readings.

It is very possible that this tank is cycled. Seeing nitrates leads me to believe that. I will ask you to test your source water for nitrates though to be sure what you are seeing isn't coming from there.
 
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velospeed

Okay, I just ran a test on a glass of water from the tap (source)
Nitrate is lower in tap than tank
Tap water softer than tank
KH is lower in tap than tank
pH is lower in tap than tank
 

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mattgirl

Okay, I just ran a test on a glass of water from the tap (source)
Nitrate is lower in tap than tank
Tap water softer than tank
KH is lower in tap than tank
pH is lower in tap than tank
We can't know for sure until we get an ammonia reading. I truly don't understand why the strips don't test for the most important parameter. Seeing some nitrates in your source water tells us all the nitrates you are seeing in this tank weren't produced in the tank.
 
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Kribensis27

Btw, that pleco appears to be a common or sail fin. The common grows up to nearly two feet, whereas the sail fin stays around a foot.
 
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velospeed

Guys this poor fish is a fighter, but hanging on by a thread this morning. Could this be Dropsy?
 

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Kribensis27

Guys this poor fish is fighter, but hanging on by a thread this morning. Could this be Dropsy?
I don’t see any pineconing, so I’m not sure it’s dropsy. It’s still could be, though.
 
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velospeed

Well this is a sad surprise: the Pleco died this evening. Of the three fish, that one seemed the healthiest lately, and least impacted by the water parameter fluctuations. What is wrong with this water?
 

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mattgirl

Well this is a sad surprise: the Pleco died this evening. Of the three fish, that one seemed the healthiest lately, and least impacted by the water parameter fluctuations. What is wrong with this water?
I am sorry to hear this. Are you able to test for ammonia yet?
 
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velospeed

I am sorry to hear this. Are you able to test for ammonia yet?

Thanks. Yes, tested and it was 0-.5 range.
 
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mattgirl

Thanks. Yes, tested and it was 0-.5 range.
Did you get the full testing kit. We will be able to better help you if we have all the numbers. With as long as this tank has been running I would expect it to be cycled but since you are seeing ammonia I have to think it isn't.

What you are doing is basically a fish in cycle. When doing one you need to keep both ammonia and eventually nitrites as low as possible with water changes. When you do the water changes be sure you both temp match and add your water conditioner to the fresh water before pouring it in there. If I saw .5 ammonia I would change out at least half the water to get it down to .25

You want to see 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and some nitrates. You want your pH up to at least 7. Much lower than that and your bacteria struggles to process the ammonia.
 
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velospeed

Did you get the full testing kit. We will be able to better help you if we have all the numbers. With as long as this tank has been running I would expect it to be cycled but since you are seeing ammonia I have to think it isn't.

What you are doing is basically a fish in cycle. When doing one you need to keep both ammonia and eventually nitrites as low as possible with water changes. When you do the water changes be sure you both temp match and add your water conditioner to the fresh water before pouring it in there. If I saw .5 ammonia I would change out at least half the water to get it down to .25

You want to see 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and some nitrates. You want your pH up to at least 7. Much lower than that and your bacteria struggles to process the ammonia.

Thank you. Note that I did two consecutive days of 50% water changes last week, so I might’ve screwed up the cycle. I cannot get the full testing kit until Wednesday. In the meantime, I’ll do a 25% water change, adding Seachem Prime, right?
 
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Biiba

Thank you. Note that I did two consecutive days of 50% water changes last week, so I might’ve screwed up the cycle. I cannot get the full testing kit until Wednesday. In the meantime, I’ll do a 25% water change, adding Seachem Prime, right?
Yes water changes with prime will help to get the ammonia down. Also water changes don’t disturb your cycle as most of the beneficial bacteria is in your filter! I think most of us on here have been in the same position as you (I most definitely have) .... hang in there and don’t be disheartened. I would do a 50% water change each day with prime as the prime will make the ammonia less harmful until your next water change. It is a lot of work but essential to keep the water safe for your fish. We are all here to help. Good luck
I forgot to say.....make sure you put prime into the new water BEFORE you put it into your tank! (Sorry if this sounds silly but someone I knew had problems because they added water into the tank first then added prime to the tank!!!)
 
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Flyfisha

I am kind of saying the same thing as Biiba, almost.

Bacteria lives ON hard surfaces . In our tanks it’s mostly found on the filter that has a supply of food ( poop ) flowing past continuously in the water. But all hard surfaces are a potential home including the glass and gravel.

You have an 8 gallon tank that now has less fish in it. When using Prime as your conditioner the ammonia is less toxic for 48 hours.
I suggest a water change every second day ( 48 hours) is often enough. Personally I consider 50% of the total water volume to be a maximum safe amount for a water change.
Perhaps 45% of the total water allowing for ornaments gravel etc is a safer MAXIMUM volume to change?
Matching the temperature of is considered important. That is just one of the parameters that will shock the fish if it’s different to the tank water.
Imo 25% daily is a safe option?

As far as 50% or more water changes is concerned they will not effect the cycle no matter if you do them every day.


As you now have the API ammonia test I feel the need to talk about the colour chart.
It is my opinion that zero ammonia is not the yellow on the chart. If however you see any green that is definitely ammonia .
I believe the colour chart should be used in daylight with your back to the sun. Not artificial house lighting.

A couple of pictures of the same test tube from my tanks zero ammonia. The second is under house lights the first is in sunlight. Nether is the yellow of the colour chart.IMO.

E2EB066A-F450-4B60-A8D2-287FCA59BCC9.jpeg
6DF17365-CB68-4596-9EA7-27B3A798799E.jpeg
 
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Biiba

How’s your betta today?
 
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FishGirl115

First off, welcome to fishlore.
How's your betta doing?
In my opinion, if you really want more corys, you could get 3 more if you add some live plants and keep up on weekly 50% water changes. Obviously this is after we know the tank is cycled If it's possible, return the cory you have now and get 6 pygmy corys. They would fit in your tank better
 
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mattgirl

Thank you. Note that I did two consecutive days of 50% water changes last week, so I might’ve screwed up the cycle. I cannot get the full testing kit until Wednesday. In the meantime, I’ll do a 25% water change, adding Seachem Prime, right?
Biiba answered this question very well. Now that the pleco is gone I think it would be sufficient to do your water changes every other day. You may have already read this (fish in cycle simplified) but I wanted to highlight it just in case you haven't. Test your ammonia daily. If it is up to .50, change out half the water to get it back down to .25 If it is already .25 skip the water change that day.

Always both temp match and add Prime to the fresh water before pouring it in the tank. As long as you do that each and every time you will not be harming your growing cycle. The bacteria isn't free floating in the water. It is growing on all the surfaces in your tank. The strongest colony will start out on your filter media because that is where the most food is going to be.

I am sorry that your pleco didn't make it but this tank really isn't big enough for one, I love plecos. In fact they are my favorite species of fish but they are poop machines. I actually have one in a 5.5 gallon tank but this little pleco is going on 2 years old and is only 1 inch long. She was the runt of one of my spawns. She just never grew but most plecos need a much bigger tank.

Please try not to beat yourself up over what is happening. Most of us started right where you are right now. We made mistakes and sadly we lost fish. We are all here to help you get through this and we all want you to end up with a tank that is a safe place for your fish.
 
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velospeed

Hi guys. I’m sorry for lag in responding. Sadly, the Betta died this afternoon. I’m really upset about it, but finding some comfort in the fact that Cory is swimming again. He seems to be doing well. I’ll follow up more later—just need to clear my head of this.
 
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Biiba

Oh no, I’m so sorry for your loss. It’s just heartbreaking........I’m glad your Cory is doing better, I used to keep cories a few years ago!
 
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