Illness ID on cardinal tetra

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Yeah, did so, asked fishkeepers right here in the neighbourhood for opinion and to compare pics with my fish. We are all a bit on the fence between dermosporidia and gill/skin flukes, but all are sure it's not anchor worms. So as it's too late to do a waterchange tonight, I'll start dosing for flukes tomorrow after changing 50%.
I doubt I got it in with the corys, because that wormlike thing on the side cannot have grown since thursday evening and some symptoms where there before I got them, as I noticed them while adding the corys (well, 20min after that.)
 
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CichlidJynx said:
I hope you can cause I’ll feel real bad about it :banghead: I would definitely keep the fluke meds like stated
Don't feel bad. It's fine. :)
 
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And it's gill and skinflukes, ladies and gentlemen. Another tetra is skimming the surface more than one is breathing heavy. I'm delighted... -.-
Fluke meds it is in the morning after the water change.
 

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MacZ said:
Yeah, did so, asked fishkeepers right here in the neighbourhood for opinion and to compare pics with my fish. We are all a bit on the fence between dermosporidia and gill/skin flukes, but all are sure it's not anchor worms. So as it's too late to do a waterchange tonight, I'll start dosing for flukes tomorrow after changing 50%.
I doubt I got it in with the corys, because that wormlike thing on the side cannot have grown since thursday evening and some symptoms where there before I got them, as I noticed them while adding the corys (well, 20min after that.)
Flukes are hardly visible
 
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Are they? I guess I found some pictures credited wrong then.

What else could be going on then?

I checked further:

O2:
- surface agitation and waterflow: check
- no film on top
- temperature is the usual 26°C
- only the neons are affected

Not a reason either. Test says O2 = 4-5mg/l.

Stress factors:
- Me hanging out too much closely in front of the tank?
Actually since adding the cories I only watched and were not that much at home. So anthropogene stressors are out.
- The cories themselves seem a mixed bag in that regard. The neons act irritated by a cory (or a squadron of 3-4) zooming by. But... could that actually be? Tetras have gotten used to the cories by now.

possible contamination:

- I fed live foods and frozen foods several times lately. Could those be sources of pathogens? Possible sure, but how likely? Also could I have fed to much? I remember cichlids not taking an overfeeding red mosquito larvae well.
- The cories could have brought some housewarming presents. But does anything develop that fast? Yes, two cories died the first night, but what has such a short incubation period? And shouldn't the other 8 cories then not be affected, too? Looked up incubation times for different diseases that affect the gills. This one is out.
- Erm... DoubleDutch, I trust there was nothing going on in your tank with the plants in, right? Please, don't take this personally, I'm just trying to rule you out immediately. :) Not a suspect, as, thinking about it, some early symptoms were there before I got the plants.
- Have to ask my neighbour if his fish are ok. I "parked" some frogbit of DD's there and got it here later. Same, time-frame/chronology doesn't add up.


Update: One of the cardinals (and sorry for calling them neons all the time, in german they are called "red neons" not cardinals), passed away over night. Just skimmed it off the surface. Rest doesn't hang out on the top anymore. Interestingly it was not the one I started this thread for.
 
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Update #2: Waterchange done, meds dosed, fish are mostly calm.
Well, the cories just witnessed their first waterchange in my tank, so they are going bonkers a bit, schooling along the glass. But what to expect, they are only for 3 days now.
The cardinals are breathing much more freely now and not as fast and heavy as before.
 

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MacZ said:
Update #2: Waterchange done, meds dosed, fish are mostly calm.
Well, the cories just witnessed their first waterchange in my tank, so they are going bonkers a bit, schooling along the glass. But what to expect, they are only for 3 days now.
The cardinals are breathing much more freely now and not as fast and heavy as before.
Good, I hope this is the answer to your problems!
 
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I hope so too. We'll see. It says in the instructions to repeat the treatment after a certain number of days depending on the temp, when it's gill flukes. In my case that means I have to dose again on wednesday. After that it should be fine again.
 
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Update #3:
- Everyone seems relatively fine, cardinals still somewhat breathing fast, but not as heavy anymore. Gills look better.
- Cardinal with "thing" on the side still separating itself, still looking bloated. Still eating, though not going for it with much drive.
- Said "thing" has receeded/fallen off(?) partially. At least I can now be sure it's not anchor worms.
 
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Update #4: Did O2-test today. All good, 4-5mg/l is within range.

- checklist above updated
 

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MacZ said:
Are they? I guess I found some pictures credited wrong then.

What else could be going on then?

I checked further:

O2:
- surface agitation and waterflow: check
- no film on top
- temperature is the usual 26°C
- only the neons are affected

Not a reason either. Test says O2 = 4-5mg/l.

Stress factors:
- Me hanging out too much closely in front of the tank?
Actually since adding the cories I only watched and were not that much at home. So anthropogene stressors are out.
- The cories themselves seem a mixed bag in that regard. The neons act irritated by a cory (or a squadron of 3-4) zooming by. But... could that actually be? Tetras have gotten used to the cories by now.

possible contamination:

- I fed live foods and frozen foods several times lately. Could those be sources of pathogens? Possible sure, but how likely? Also could I have fed to much? I remember cichlids not taking an overfeeding red mosquito larvae well.
- The cories could have brought some housewarming presents. But does anything develop that fast? Yes, two cories died the first night, but what has such a short incubation period? And shouldn't the other 8 cories then not be affected, too? Looked up incubation times for different diseases that affect the gills. This one is out.
- Erm... DoubleDutch, I trust there was nothing going on in your tank with the plants in, right? Please, don't take this personally, I'm just trying to rule you out immediately. :) Not a suspect, as, thinking about it, some early symptoms were there before I got the plants.
- Have to ask my neighbour if his fish are ok. I "parked" some frogbit of DD's there and got it here later. Same, time-frame/chronology doesn't add up.


Update: One of the cardinals (and sorry for calling them neons all the time, in german they are called "red neons" not cardinals), passed away over night. Just skimmed it off the surface. Rest doesn't hang out on the top anymore. Interestingly it was not the one I started this thread for.
My thoughts FWIW are the cories brought something in. Or they came in with the live foods. Pretty hard to control what comes in from the wild (if that happened), I pretty much assume a hitchhiker parasite will be there.

I hope whatever it is, the meds you have treats it.

Just wanted to mention, my super blue kerrI tetras brought in suspected anchorworm, I used parasite guard by Tetra because it contains the med Diflubenzuron which treats anchorworm specifically. It's not a common thing seen in aquaria, mostly a problem with outdoor ponds, but I don't have any doubt that is where my tetras were from. But tbh, I don't see anchorworm killing so quickly, so probably it's flukes as you thought.
 
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By now I think it came with the food or the tetras had it when I bought them already and just succumbed to the parasite now. The symptoms appeared partially before the cories even entered the tank and as I said I only noticed them consciously while adding the cories.
 

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MacZ said:
By now I think it came with the food or the tetras had it when I bought them already and just succumbed to the parasite now. The symptoms appeared partially before the cories even entered the tank and as I said I only noticed them consciously while adding the cories.
Wow, this is like a crime scene investigation. I do the same thing when something goes wrong, I have to get to the bottom of it. Wishing you the best!
 
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Update #5: Original "Something's wrong...."-tetra also died overnight. Allthough in this case I'm pretty sure he was just beyond recovery. Cadaver looked untouched upon removal I so hope nobody ate from it.

I'll keep an eye on the rest and do a 10-20% waterchange before work.

Rest of the cardinals is breathing better than yesterday. I am all but sure if I want to stock up on cardinals ever again.
Cories are seemingly taking over the tank now.

Also a thought what could have happened actually: When the otos died the cardinals had a feast each time. Likely the cardinals ate something with those carcasses that needs 4 weeks+ (last oto died Jan. 6th if I remember correctly) time to develop until even visible...
 

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MacZ said:
Update #5: Original "Something's wrong...."-tetra also died overnight. Allthough in this case I'm pretty sure he was just beyond recovery. Cadaver looked untouched upon removal I so hope nobody ate from it.

I'll keep an eye on the rest and do a 10-20% waterchange before work.

Rest of the cardinals is breathing better than yesterday. I am all but sure if I want to stock up on cardinals ever again.
Cories are seemingly taking over the tank now.

Also a thought what could have happened actually: When the otos died the cardinals had a feast each time. Likely the cardinals ate something with those carcasses that needs 4 weeks+ (last oto died Jan. 6th if I remember correctly) time to develop until even visible...
Grrr sorry mate
 
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Thanks... it's frustrating and... Worst. Timing. Ever.

Noticing your "old" fish are sick and likely having been sick for a while as you add healthy new ones is the most unfortunate way this can go down I can imagine.
 

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MacZ said:
Update #5: Original "Something's wrong...."-tetra also died overnight. Allthough in this case I'm pretty sure he was just beyond recovery. Cadaver looked untouched upon removal I so hope nobody ate from it.
I'll keep an eye on the rest and do a 10-20% waterchange before work.

Rest of the cardinals is breathing better than yesterday. I am all but sure if I want to stock up on cardinals ever again.
Cories are seemingly taking over the tank now.

Also a thought what could have happened actually: When the otos died the cardinals had a feast each time. Likely the cardinals ate something with those carcasses that needs 4 weeks+ (last oto died Jan. 6th if I remember correctly) time to develop until even visible...
99.99% of the time otocinclus are wild caught and likely came in with parasites, it wouldn’t surprise me that’s what caused it. Sorry for your fish lose bye, it always sucks
 
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Agree. My mistake, now I have to deal with the consequences.
 

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