Help Idk Who Or What To Believe

RazorTightMike

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Hello folks. I bought an aqueon 20g led tank, filled it with RO water, foolishly added water conditioner and the bottled bacteria. Sit for 24 hours and added fish. 3 hours and they died..I didn't test water previously, my mistake... So a week passes and the water turns cloudy. I go to another fish store (felt like I was being sold at the other store ) test the water and was told I'm perfect (tested for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH). So I added 2 more fish (white skirt ?Tetra) they lasted about 5 hours. I floated bag for 15 to 20 mins, they seemed to be freaking out so I figured let them in before they kill themselves. I'm gonna restart everything but do you all think I overdosed on conditioner? Maybe lack of surface agitation? I'm curious. Like I said im going to tear it down and start over but maybe a lesson is to be learned here? Thank you for your time. I will continue reading threads in hopes of finding something.
 

nikm128

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There is absolutely no way the tank cycled in a week. I think they saw all zeros and a neutral ish PH, then told you it was fine. The reason for all zeros would be having no fish for a week
 

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Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe you don’t necessarily have to use water conditioner with RO water.

Do you happen to know the numerical values of your tests? You should have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and some nitrates if your tank is cycled and not heavily planted (if heavily planted, nitrates may be extremely low or 0). I agree with others in that to start your cycle, you need an ammonia source, otherwise your parameters will all read fine, then skyrocket when fish are added (which seems to fit your description of the situation).

When adding your fish, I recommend drip acclimation. Basically, take an airline tube, knot it, and create a siphon from your tank to the bag or container. There should be about 2-4 drips per second. When your bag/container has mainly water from your tank in it, the fish can be safely released.

Another method is to add a shot glass worth of tank water every fifteen minutes until the bag/container water is mostly from your tank.

For either method, original water from your bag should be removed to the point that the fish are still comfortable.

The haziness sounds like a bacteria bloom, which should go away as your parameters stabilize.
 

Jaguar

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Wait never mind I see the week. But yes, it couldn’t be cycled that fast, especially because it sat there with no ammonia getting put into it.
 

nikm128

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They said 24 hours, not a week
Well, you are right, but just logically, if it won't be done in a week it can't be done in 24 hours . I don't mean to be rude, I just find it helpful to show my thought process sometimes
Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe you don’t necessarily have to use water conditioner with RO water.

Do you happen to know the numerical values of your tests? You should have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and some nitrates if your tank is cycled and not heavily planted (if heavily planted, nitrates may be extremely low or 0). I agree with others in that to start your cycle, you need an ammonia source, otherwise your parameters will all read fine, then skyrocket when fish are added (which seems to fit your description of the situation).

When adding your fish, I recommend drip acclimation. Basically, take an airline tube, knot it, and create a siphon from your tank to the bag or container. There should be about 2-4 drips per second. When your bag/container has mainly water from your tank in it, the fish can be safely released.

Another method is to add a shot glass worth of tank water every fifteen minutes until the bag/container water is mostly from your tank.

For either method, original water from your bag should be removed to the point that the fish are still comfortable.

The haziness sounds like a bacteria bloom, which should go away as your parameters stabilize.
It should be chlorine free, so probably not completely needed.
 

scarface

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I'm gonna restart everything but do you all think I overdosed on conditioner?
As said above, we do need more information. Now this question got my attention. Did you? If so, why didn't you simply follow instructions, and by how much? Generally, overdosing conditioner is fine, and I wouldn't normally see that as a cause of death--except your fishes died so quickly. I also put RO water as another reason, perhaps more of a possibility than the conditioner. Keep in mind, RO water has no nutrients or minerals which fish require. It also has no chlorine or chloramines, so there was no need to use a dechlorinator to begin with.
 

The_fishy

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Oh, I just thought of something. If where you bought your RO doesn’t remineralize the water, that may be an issue for your fish as well. If so, I don’t believe it would be the main factor, but it could be contributing.
 

WildType

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Did you use pure RO water with no re-mineralization? I've seen that skirt tetras do well in hard water anyway. That could be the issue, otherwise I'm not sure.
 
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RazorTightMike

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Do you have a filter? Heater? Gravel? Plants? Can you tell us about your tank? All you have said is that it is 20 gallons.
Right, haven't been on a forum in awhile. My apologies.... It was a kit, came with hang on back filter, heater, thermometer, net, food, conditioner hood and lights. I bought Gravel and a 1000 layer rock. I recently added a air stone with a pump thats for up to 40 Gallons.

There is absolutely no way the tank cycled in a week. I think they saw all zeros and a neutral ish PH, then told you it was fine. The reason for all zeros would be having no fish for a week
I've been told I could fill the tank with RO water and add fish the same day...the water clouded up a Lil so I figured it was cycling.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe you don’t necessarily have to use water conditioner with RO water.

Do you happen to know the numerical values of your tests? You should have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and some nitrates if your tank is cycled and not heavily planted (if heavily planted, nitrates may be extremely low or 0). I agree with others in that to start your cycle, you need an ammonia source, otherwise your parameters will all read fine, then skyrocket when fish are added (which seems to fit your description of the situation).

When adding your fish, I recommend drip acclimation. Basically, take an airline tube, knot it, and create a siphon from your tank to the bag or container. There should be about 2-4 drips per second. When your bag/container has mainly water from your tank in it, the fish can be safely released.

Another method is to add a shot glass worth of tank water every fifteen minutes until the bag/container water is mostly from your tank.

For either method, original water from your bag should be removed to the point that the fish are still comfortable.

The haziness sounds like a bacteria bloom, which should go away as your parameters stabilize.
I've been told by 2 different stores to do 2 different things with acclimation... One was floating is fine no need to add water... The other one said she told me to add water but me and the wife don't recall that part.
 

candiedragon

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I suspect the RO water. If you haven't re-mineralized the water or even so much as mix some of your tap water in, that means that your water is too pure for fish. Fish actually need some degree of minerals in the water in order to live and be healthy. That's why I suspect your fish died so quickly. Usually, fish can somewhat handle an uncycled tank.

Is RO water necessary? Is your tap water something you wouldn't drink, is the pH too acidic or too alkaline? If so, I highly encourage you do some research on re-mineralizing RO water so that fish can survive in it.
 
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RazorTightMike

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As said above, we do need more information. Now this question got my attention. Did you? If so, why didn't you simply follow instructions, and by how much? Generally, overdosing conditioner is fine, and I wouldn't normally see that as a cause of death--except your fishes died so quickly. I also put RO water as another reason, perhaps more of a possibility than the conditioner. Keep in mind, RO water has no nutrients or minerals which fish require. It also has no chlorine or chloramines, so there was no need to use a dechlorinator to begin with.
True, partly my fault.. I followed directions too closely, the bottle of bacteria said to make sure I dechlorinate the water without a thought I put conditioner that came with the 20gal aqueon kit. After death of fish. . I was later told it was wrong and bought prime. Which I added, then tested the water the next afternoon... My wife went....so she was given more prime too add. .. Given in a water bottle like a freebie after I bought the ****. Which she added.... But split up, meaning she was given enough to put 2 doses. It wasnt alot, but it was added.

Did you use pure RO water with no re-mineralization? I've seen that skirt tetras do well in hard water anyway. That could be the issue, otherwise I'm not sure.
Didn't know that was a thing....

I suspect the RO water. If you haven't re-mineralized the water or even so much as mix some of your tap water in, that means that your water is too pure for fish. Fish actually need some degree of minerals in the water in order to live and be healthy. That's why I suspect your fish died so quickly. Usually, fish can somewhat handle an uncycled tank.

Is RO water necessary? Is your tap water something you wouldn't drink, is the pH too acidic or too alkaline? If so, I highly encourage you do some research on re-mineralizing RO water so that fish can survive in it.
Re-mineralization is news to me...i was told to use ro water let it run and add fish, the fish start the cycle... Definitely something I'm gonna look into thanks.
 
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WildType

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Re-mineralization is news to me...i was told to use ro water let it run and add fish, the fish start the cycle... Definitely something I'm gonna look into thanks.
Water that has no minerals has no buffering capacity. It's possible you attempted a fish-in cycle and the ammonia the fish produced wildly altered the pH of the water(or the pure water's dissolved solid level shocked them). You need to add either a proportion of tap water or some sort of re-mineralization product for the proper gH and kH levels.

Depending on how hard your water is you might not need RO. But where you buy the fish and whether they use RO is what's important, you want similar parameters.

It seems like everyone kills fish when they first start, the important part is learning to house the future fish, you can't change the past.
 

candiedragon

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Re-mineralization is news to me...i was told to use ro water let it run and add fish, the fish start the cycle... Definitely something I'm gonna look into thanks.
RO water is a process that strips everything from water so that it is a 7.0 pH with 0 hardness of any kind. It creates a base allowing someone to customize parameters for whatever goal they have in mind, most commonly used for those who have non-potable water, people who wish to breed fish with particular requirements, and delicate fish like Discus. If you leave it as is then it can have very harmful effects on the fish, it's kind of like how humans can't process pure oxygen and die from it.

Hopefully that gives you a good back-bone of what to read into. Please feel free to ask questions here though. There's a knowledgeable and supportive bunch on Fish Lore.

It may help to start from scratch, do a bit of research and asking around on forums and then get right into it.
 
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RazorTightMike

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Water that has no minerals has no buffering capacity. It's possible you attempted a fish-in cycle and the ammonia the fish produced wildly altered the pH of the water(or the pure water's dissolved solid level shocked them). You need to add either a proportion of tap water or some sort of re-mineralization product for the proper gH and kH levels.

Depending on how hard your water is you might not need RO. But where you buy the fish and whether they use RO is what's important, you want similar parameters.

It seems like everyone kills fish when they first start, the important part is learning to house the future fish, you can't change the past.
Is there another test I should be doing? I seen they test for phosphates and some other stuff. Part of me wants to correct what I got going now.

RO water is a process that strips everything from water so that it is a 7.0 pH with 0 hardness of any kind. It creates a base allowing someone to customize parameters for whatever goal they have in mind, most commonly used for those who have non-potable water, people who wish to breed fish with particular requirements, and delicate fish like Discus. If you leave it as is then it can have very harmful effects on the fish, it's kind of like how humans can't process pure oxygen and die from it.

Hopefully that gives you a good back-bone of what to read into. Please feel free to ask questions here though. There's a knowledgeable and supportive bunch on Fish Lore.

It may help to start from scratch, do a bit of research and asking around on forums and then get right into it.
So that bottled bacteria did nothing as far as the mineral content goes for the water? That was just bacteria for cycling I assume.
 
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AngryRainbow

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I've got RO water in my house and constantly had issues with the stability of ph until I added an alkalinity filter to the system.

I still lightly dose with prime since I'm on well water and slightly worried about metals in the water.
 

AvalancheDave

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Almost certainly death by salinity shock aka osmotic shock.

Chloramine will zip right through RO membranes. It's also difficult to remove with carbon. You need catalytic carbon, a very slow flow rate or a very large amount of carbon, and regular testing with ultra low range chlorine tests.

I had chloramine get through my RO filter so I switched to catalytic carbon. Some chloramine still go through so I added a 2nd canister of catalytic carbon. That did the trick but it didn't last long. I eventually settled on five canisters of carbon.
 
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RazorTightMike

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No, it didn't remineralize any of the water unfortunately
I don't understand why it was suggested. And if it worked for them why not me... I hear that over conditioning is hard to do, and I only added a half cup of bacteria..... I got the RO water from the same place they did... I hope I wasn't being shafted by the store.

Almost certainly death by salinity shock aka osmotic shock.

Chloramine will zip right through RO membranes. It's also difficult to remove with carbon. You need catalytic carbon, a very slow flow rate or a very large amount of carbon, and regular testing with ultra low range chlorine tests.

I had chloramine get through my RO filter so I switched to catalytic carbon. Some chloramine still go through so I added a 2nd canister of catalytic carbon. That did the trick but it didn't last long. I eventually settled on five canisters of carbon.
So your saying the place I got my ro water isn't handling their **** properly? I Mean, would this be something they keep in check? I hope.
 
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nikm128

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I don't understand why it was suggested. And if it worked for them why not me... I hear that over conditioning is hard to do, and I only added a half cup of bacteria..... I got the RO water from the same place they did... I hope I wasn't being shafted by the store.
May I ask what store? If you don't want to be specific, was it a chain store such as petsmart or petco?
So your saying the place I got my ro water isn't handling their properly? I Mean, would this be something they keep in check? I hope.
That may be the case, is there a specific reason for not using your tap water?
 
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