ick suggestions for catfish (scaleless)

jim55379

Member
Hello I recently purchased 3 pictus catifsh for my 20 gallon.  I was going to buy some tiger barbs but they were out. A lot of the tanks I saw had white spot in them but I took  a chance and bought these fish anyway since this place has 90 day warranty on fish.  I cycled tank for about 5-6 days before I put in fish and added that cycle bacteria stuff.  When I put them in the water they were swimming at the top like maybe they were stressed.  I did a test before and as usual the ph was slightly high and ammonia was good.  Anyway I noticed they had the white spot.  so tried some new medication.  It has malchinte green with formeldahide. I am hoping the formeldahide may kill the ick quicker.  I tried the malchite green before and killed them (fish).  I should have turned up heater but the 50 watt could barely keep it at 74. I have since purchased a 100 watt.  I found out later I should have halfed the dosage for scaless fish.  I notice a lot of the medication doesn't give very good directions.  They don't say if a partial change is required or not.  Or I will notice that it will give better instruction on the throw away container that it was packaged in.  The bottle won't tell you near as much detail.  I turned the heater up to a little past 80 degrees and this morning also added some of that jungle lab tablets for secondary infections.  I am thinking about possibly adding salt at a later date.  Anyone have any info about how much to add for catfish/per gallon. Any other tips I can do?  Should I turn up the heater more?  I also bought one of those stick areators.  I used to use only the power filter.  Those stick things are great.  They stick on the wall with suction cups and really pour out the bubbles.  One poor catfish swims around in that current all the time.  I think it helps scratch his itch (ick).  What is the actual temp that kills ick?  I know they stop breeding at about 78?  This site has really helped me a lot.  I am learning more every day.   ??? ???  At least I think I am.  I will see if these fish survive.
 

EmpPleco

Member
The temperature has to be gradually raised and held consistent at about 85 for a few days. I am not really sure what to tell you medication wise because I really try not to use these chemicals in my tank, but I have tried the Jungle brand ick tablets before ( when I first started, and I found they did no good IMO) You could usually add a small amt of aquarium salt for ick, but with scaleless fish, I'm not sure that they would take too well to that, so it may do more harm than good.

IF you don't mind, please tell us what exact numbers you have for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.. Anything above 0 for ammonia and nitrite and anything above 35-40 ppm is harmful for your fish, and you will have to start doing more regular water changes to keep these levels down.
 

Jon

Member
its best to keep nitrate below 10

dont give them salt baths or add salt... salt kills any scaleless fish instantly
 

fish_r_friend

Member
I use jungle labs ich tablets and my tanks had ich twice
 

newbie101

Member
wow you are having bad luck :-\ poor fish...my fish have never had ich, but it seems inevitable for you...Did the cats die?
 

fish_r_friend

Member
when my tanks had it 5 fish that I have had have died from it
 

EmpPleco

Member
sorry to hear that :'(
 
  • Thread Starter

jim55379

Member
Emma said:
wow you are having bad luck :-\ poor fish...my fish have never had ich, but it seems inevitable for you...Did the cats die?

No Emma not yet. I had temperature at 80 and used some differnt medicine and they were doing ok. I kicked heater up to 82 and they didn't eat this morning. I did a partial 25% change and put in some tablet jungle labs for after ick healing for fungus and secondary infections. I may have to turn the water down tonight to 80. That ick medicine really seeems to be working most of the spots are gone. This is something new that has malchite green and formaldahide n it. I think I will do another 25% change tonight and if they aren't eating I will have to lower temp back to 80. I think if I put it at 85 I would have a catfish fry. My heater is close to maxed out anyway. Don't know if it would get any hotter unless I added a spare 50 watt heater that I have. I am using a 100 right now.
 
  • Thread Starter

jim55379

Member
Jon said:
its best to keep nitrate below 10

dont give them salt baths or add salt... salt kills any scaleless fish instantly
A bath may kill them but how about like a couple of tablesppons for 20 gal tank? I don't know either so will play it safe and no salt for now. Thanks for the reply
 
  • Thread Starter

jim55379

Member
fish_r_friend said:
I use jungle labs ich tablets and my tanks had ich twice
Yeah fisher friend those jungle lab tablets I think are nothing more than food coloring for the water. Malchite green with the formeldahide works but I half the dose for catfish and Tetras. I am using some of those jungle lab tablets and don't know if they are any good either. I use half dosage but they really turn the water greenish/blue.
 
  • Thread Starter

jim55379

Member
jim55379 said:
fish_r_friend said:
I use jungle labs ich tablets and my tanks had ich twice
Yeah fisher friend those jungle lab tablets I think are nothing more than food coloring for the water.  Malchite green with the formeldahide works but I half the dose for catfish and Tetras.  I am using some of those jungle lab tablets and don't know if they are any good either.  I use half dosage but they really turn the water greenish/blue.
I forgot to specify the jungle lab tabs that I am current also using are for the secondary infections. Well I will say a prayer and hope they will make it. ??? 8)
 
  • Thread Starter

jim55379

Member
jim55379 said:
Emma said:
wow you are having bad luck :-\ poor fish...my fish have never had ich, but it seems inevitable for you...Did the cats die? Yes emma it does seem inevitable. But some of the cause is the tank was fairly new when I started it. About 5 or 6 days of cycling. I would have gotten some tigers to help cycle but they were out. I really love my cats. Also this time at Wallmapart I saw a few tanks with white spot in them. I don't know positively if the cats were infected at this time or not. But If they don't make it there is a 90 day warranty which is unheard of in the fish world. I don't know how they can honestly make a profit with all the novice sometimes ignorant fish owners like myself who are learning but getting many casualties as a result. Nice Bird Emma. How are your fish doing. I know for a awhile you were having a few die also?? ;D

No Emma not yet.  I had temperature at 80 and used some differnt medicine and they were doing ok.  I kicked heater up to 82 and they didn't eat this morning.  I did a partial 25% change and put in some tablet jungle labs for after ick healing for fungus and secondary infections.  I may have to turn the water down tonight to 80.  That ick medicine really seeems to be working most of the spots are gone.  This is something new that has malchite green and formaldahide n it.  I think I will do another 25% change tonight and if they aren't eating I will have to lower temp back to 80.  I think if I put it at 85 I would have a catfish fry.   My heater is close to maxed out anyway.  Don't know if it would get any hotter unless I added a spare 50 watt heater that I have.  I am using a 100 right now. 
 

dahly

Member
I'd be careful adding too many chemicals and confussing the situation. When I had ick in my 29, I use Nox-Ich, which has Mal. green in it. The directions said to use it for three consecutive days, stop for a day and do a water change, then repeat if the Ick was not gone. It also said use only half doses when scaleless fish are present. I also turned the temp up to 80 degrees. The spots dropped off after the first day and I did as directed for the 3 days. I've not had an ick problem since.

Good luck!
 

chickadee

Member
jim55379 said:
Emma said:
wow you are having bad luck :-\ poor fish...my fish have never had ich, but it seems inevitable for you...Did the cats die?

No Emma not yet.  I had temperature at 80 and used some differnt medicine and they were doing ok.  I kicked heater up to 82 and they didn't eat this morning.  I did a partial 25% change and put in some tablet jungle labs for after ick healing for fungus and secondary infections.  I may have to turn the water down tonight to 80.  That ick medicine really seeems to be working most of the spots are gone.  This is something new that has malchite green and formaldahide n it.  I think I will do another 25% change tonight and if they aren't eating I will have to lower temp back to 80.  I think if I put it at 85 I would have a catfish fry.   My heater is close to maxed out anyway.  Don't know if it would get any hotter unless I added a spare 50 watt heater that I have.  I am using a 100 right now. 
According to the fine folks at Aquarium Pharmaceuticals the temperature has to be 85 for the parasite to go freeswimming and leave the fish. Then the medication, if you use any can kill it. As long as it remains on the fish NOTHING will kill it. The temperature being up to 85 for a week at least may take care of the problem even without medication a lot of the time since the parasite won't attach to another fish at that temperature and will die without a host. But the number is not a matter of opinion, it has to be 85 degrees. I am so sorry about your fish.

Rose
 

EmpPleco

Member
Yeah I would definitely try to avoid giving the tank any more medication than it has already received, because scaleless (armorless) fish, are extremely sensitive to chemicals. Even a small amt, (if prolonged) could really upset them
 
  • Thread Starter

jim55379

Member
ok thanks guys... I think tonight I will do a partial change 25% but with no chemicalsexcept for chlorine conditioner and turn up the temp and see how they react. Thanks I agree with trying not to use chemicals. I don't think they like it... :
 
  • Thread Starter

jim55379

Member
I heard that in approximately 3 days the parasite will fall off and then they release eggs or something into the water. I have seen it. It looks like a jelly like substance almost like a possible fish dropping. Yes at this point chemicals may do more harm than good. If the fish quit eating and don't start soon I know too well the outcome............ :-\ :'( ???




chickadee said:
jim55379 said:
Emma said:
wow you are having bad luck :-\ poor fish...my fish have never had ich, but it seems inevitable for you...Did the cats die?

No Emma not yet.  I had temperature at 80 and used some differnt medicine and they were doing ok.  I kicked heater up to 82 and they didn't eat this morning.  I did a partial 25% change and put in some tablet jungle labs for after ick healing for fungus and secondary infections.  I may have to turn the water down tonight to 80.  That ick medicine really seeems to be working most of the spots are gone.  This is something new that has malchite green and formaldahide n it.  I think I will do another 25% change tonight and if they aren't eating I will have to lower temp back to 80.  I think if I put it at 85 I would have a catfish fry.   My heater is close to maxed out anyway.  Don't know if it would get any hotter unless I added a spare 50 watt heater that I have.  I am using a 100 right now. 
According to the fine folks at Aquarium Pharmaceuticals the temperature has to be 85 for the parasite to go freeswimming and leave the fish.  Then the medication, if you use any can kill it.  As long as it remains on the fish NOTHING will kill it.  The temperature being up to 85 for a week at least may take care of the problem even without medication a lot of the time since the parasite won't attach to another fish at that temperature and will die without a host.  But the number is not a matter of opinion, it has to be 85 degrees.  I am so sorry about your fish.

Rose
 

EmpPleco

Member
WELL GOOD LUCK!!!
 

dahly

Member
Tolmites are what is released into the water. Raising the tank temp kills them off. Once the spots are gone and the temp has been a 80 or better for 2-3 days more, the ick should be over. Stress is what causes ich in the first place, as apparently the fish carry the parasite in a dormant condition until stressed. Good luck and keep us posted!
 

Jon

Member
you asked if you could add a couple of tablespoons of salt? I believe you said you had scaleless fish right?

dont add any salt salt is extremely harsh on scaleless fish and will kill them in small doses... I have heard mixed reviews but I have never seen someone add salt to a scaleless tank and be happy with the results
 
  • Thread Starter

jim55379

Member
Thanks for the info but they already perished. They quit eating as all have so far. I used half dosage as directed and 82-84 degrees but I still lost them. How are those Corie fish? Are they pretty tough or are they also ick prone? I was reading one of these posts and someone said that ick is probably present in the fish and when they get sick or stressed it comes out. I think I am beginning to believe this. Well I am learning a lot. I have 2 things of salt I think I may return back to Wall Ma Part ??? 8)
 
  • Thread Starter

jim55379

Member
fish_r_friend said:
I use jungle labs ich tablets and my tanks had ich twice
You failed to say if they lived or died. I tried those pills to (blue) and they didn't work for me? did they for you>> ???
 

EmpPleco

Member
They did not work for me - they made things worse, I had ick once (I am not the person you quoted, so you may have another viewpoint coming soon ) But I threw the remaining out.
 

fish_r_friend

Member
jim55379 said:
fish_r_friend said:
I use jungle labs ich tablets and my tanks had ich twice
You failed to say if they lived or died. I tried those pills to (blue) and they didn't work for me? did they for you>> ???
it worked well
 

chickadee

Member
I am sorry to hear about your fish. Ich is a terrible disease and if you cannot jump right onto it, it is usually fatal. I learned a lot about it from the folks at Aquarium Pharmaceuticals who make a lot of cures for fish diseases and did not try to sell me any of their products, just gave me good information. They also referred me to a fish vet at the Unviersity of Montana who has saved me much anguish over my fish and their problems and also told me when it was time to give up and let the fish go the way of nature.

Again, my deepest sympathies over the loss of your fish. It is not an easy thing to happen, no matter what the cause.

Rose
:'(
 
  • Thread Starter

jim55379

Member
Thanks Chickadee
 

atmmachine816

Member
sorry I didnt read the whole post but I saw you have ick if you still have it I would suggest raising your temp to around 85 degrees and treating it with NOX-ICH its in a small bottle white and greeen and takes just a drop per gallon of water only sideeffect is it stains your sealant blue might rub off haven't tried it on mine yet but it took care of my ich and hasnt effect any of my fish
 

fish_r_friend

Member
atmmachine816 said:
sorry I didnt read the whole post but I saw you have ick if you still have it I would suggest raising your temp to around 85 degrees and treating it with NOX-ICH its in a small bottle white and greeen and takes just a drop per gallon of water only sideeffect is it stains your sealant blue might rub off haven't tried it on mine yet but it took care of my ich and hasnt effect any of my fish
Nox-ich works well too
 

sandmaster

Member
You can use a ick treatment bun ONLY use half the recommended amount for scaless fish. Best thing turn the temp up around 82
 

bullhorsetook

Member
Anyone using Ick Guard II from Jungle?. I was concerned that after moving my tank and fish from one house to another that a bit of an ick outbreak may have occurred. My 'fish guy' suggested this and it worked well. I used it for the recommended time and the corys were fine.
 

Butterfly

Member
The raised temperature will kill ich without the medications. Using a lot of meds at once can hurt your fish as much as the ich can and a lot faster. Leave the temp raised at least fourteen days and at least one week after you see the last spot.
Scaleless fish cannot handle salt at all. best of luck.
Carol
 

bullhorsetook

Member
What temperature do you raise it to? I am seeing two numbers 82 and 85. Does the entire tank have to be at that temperature or are there areas that can be less than the number needed. My tank may vary as much as two degrees in certain points.
 

Butterfly

Member
Anything over 82F is good, closer to 85 will kill it faster. My heaters are located under the overflow from my filter, horizontally at the bottom of the tank. That way the water is more uniformly heated, but I imagine a difference from one end to the other is normal. As long as the whole tank is over eighty-two.
Heat and water changes will take care of ich with much less stress for your fish. I just don't use chemicals unless I absolutely have to Hope that helps.
Carol
 

bullhorsetook

Member
Thanks. I will keep this in mind the next time the problem arises.
 
Top Bottom