Ich or Fungus

Discussion in 'Freshwater Fish Disease' started by Mum, Aug 11, 2015.

  1. MumValued MemberMember

    I thought this was Ich yesterday, but today I'm not sure. It appeared suddenly, my black fella was clean one day and when I woke up the next morning he had these white splotches on him. I certainly would have noticed things on him since he's pure black...and I watch my fish closely. I increased the temp to 86F yesterday, but before I continue treating this like it is Ich I want to be sure...

    Anyone have ideas? Is this Ich or something else?

    DSC_0132.jpg

    DSC_0139.jpg
     




  2. RogueValued MemberMember

    ICH usually look like sprinkles of salt. This looks more like a fungus to me.
     




  3. LiterallyHydroWell Known MemberMember

    Does it appear fuzzy? It's likely a fungal infection and needs to be treated differently from Ich.

    What are the exact parameters of your aquarium?

    Temp
    pH
    Ammonia
    Nitrite
    Nitrate

    And do you add any salt to the aquarium? From my understand mollies do best in slightly brackish tanks.
     




  4. MumValued MemberMember

    Mollies are very good in water without salt, it's not a requirement.

    I posted the current temp in my OP, but I normally keep it at 80F. My pH is consistently between 7 and 8. Ammonia and Nitrite is 0. Nitrate was under 20 ppm last I checked and I do regular water changes and I just vacuumed the gravel last week.

    It started out as small specks and has grown in the last 24 hours to what you see in the pictures. That's why I thought it was Ich originally...I've seen Ich before, but only as it started, not as it spread. Could this be Ich that has spread?

    I guess what I really want to know is if I can treat for Ich and Bacteria all at once? All of the bottles I've read at the store, API and Seachem, both say they are good for when introducing new fish...so I assume they won't hurt anything if added together?

    I have introduced a new fish recently, but she doesn't have a spot on her. All fish are swimming and eating very well, none are acting "funny".
     
  5. Sarcasm IncludedWell Known MemberMember

    It is entirely possible that you did have ICH and got a bacterial infection. It looks like it might be a columnaris saddle, but hard to tell. You can treat both ICH and bacterial at the same time as long as you are not using a copper treatment, but you will want to drop the temperature back down to 80. Bacterial infections will explode at the higher temperature, killing the fish before treatment will have effect. Seachem kanaplex mixed in food(freeze dried works best), and Kordon ICH attack will work well. API General cure will treat ICH and bacterial infections but if it is columnaris or stronger infection, it won't be effective.
     
  6. junebugFishlore LegendMember

    It's not a requirement, per se, but it's highly advised. The predominant species our petstore mollies have been bred down from is a brackish species. Often several brackish species.

    That looks like columnaris to me as well. I'd be getting all of the fish in that tank antibacterials ASAP. I don't see any ICH on the fish. As was mentioned above, you're going to want to drop the temp back down. Columnaris or similar bacterial infections flourish in high temperatures. You might even go a few degrees below 80 if possible.
     
  7. MumValued MemberMember

    Okay, I was worried about the temp too, since it looked worse. I hoped it was just worse before it got better. Heat helps with ICH, so I'm glad I asked before waiting too long.
     
  8. MumValued MemberMember

    Okay, I turned the water temp down to 76F yesterday. The spots seem to be not as fuzzy looking this morning. However I noticed this morning that my Dalmatian has a very funny looking eye, like someone squeezed her...it looks like pop-eye from what I can tell.

    My plan is to (in this order):
    Do a 25% water change, vacuuming substrate
    Add a little aquarium salt
    Start treatment with Kordon Rid Fungus.


    I've been trying to read as much as I could before starting treatment because I didn't want to make anything worse. I think I have a good plan now. Thoughts?

    I had a toss between Kordon Rid Fungus and API PimaFix...anyone have a preference?

    @Dom90, you've always had good suggestions to my posts and others that I've read from you. Do you have any here?

    Here are pictures from today.

    DSC_0141.jpg
    See how it doesn't look as cloudy as my OP?

    Here is the Dalmatian. Her left eye has always looked a little popped-out. I tease that she always looks scared, but it's her right eye that looks weird to me. In comparison you can see that it pops out more than the other. Is this pop-eye?

    DSC_0144.jpgDSC_0153.jpg

    My camera scares them, so they hang out in the back of my tank when I put it up close...hopefully these are clear enough pictures.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 13, 2015
  9. Dom90Fishlore VIPMember

    Sorry, Would gladly help but I'm not too familiar with fish diseases and infections, DoubleDutch is a lot more familiar with such things.
     
  10. Matt68046Valued MemberMember

    Dosent look like F. Columnaris to me. Quite honestly putting this fish in a Hospital tank or plastic tub with some methylene blue for a few days and raising the temp would clear it up. Looks like a infected wound to me.
     
  11. junebugFishlore LegendMember

    The fish don't have fungus, why would you treat with antifungals? As we mentioned, you need antibacterials, as the fish is suffering from a bacterial infection. And if an infection has popped up in another fish, that would indicate the beginning of a more widespread issue, so I would simply treat all of the fish in the tank.
     
  12. Bijou88Well Known MemberMember

    It looks like columnaris to me as well, though I don't have experience with it personally. Pop eye can also be indicative of a bacterial infection. You'll want meds that will treat gram negative bacteria I believe. Good luck, hope everyone recovers for you.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Fish Lore Aquarium Fish Forum mobile app
     
  13. DoubleDutchFishlore LegendMember

    Not sure but the spots on the Black Molly do look a bit like Costia or Chilodonella.
    Both are treatable with anti Ich-meds.
    The other one indeed looks like a bacterial problem. Do you only have Mollys.? As mentioned Mollys can benefit of some salt in the water, which also works antibacterial.
     
  14. MumValued MemberMember

    No, I have an ADF in that tank and cannot move him into the fry tank...that's just sending him to the buffet. :) But I wanted to add some aquarium salt because I had been reading that it helps when fish are sick.
     
  15. MumValued MemberMember

    Okay, my apologies, I'm obviously getting things confused. I am trying though...

    Can you maybe suggested a specific product brand? Like API MelaFix? That could just end the confusion. I Googled so much yesterday I'm clearly getting mixed up.

    Can I treat by water change, adding the aquarium salt, and then using MelaFix and ICH Attack? Just so that all my bases are covered?

    This is frustrating enough for me to see my fish sick, please just be patient with me as I'm trying to figure it out. I'm not trying to make mistakes..
     
  16. Sarcasm IncludedWell Known MemberMember

    In general, the threshold to treat bacteria with salt is to raise the tank's specific gravity over 1.008. This will kill off the bacteria, you will have to recycle the tank as well, as it will kill off the beneficial bacteria. The saltwater species lives at levels over 1.008 and will grow to replace the old bacteria. Your ADF should be dead in a couple days at these levels as well. OR you could treat your tank with an antibiotic as suggested.

    No, you can not treat with salt, Melafix(mild antiseptic) and ICH attack, this is a major infections and needs to be treated with an antibiotic. The best antibiotics for this are Kanamycin and Nitrofurazone combined, Seachem kanaplex and API Furan-2. You can treat with just one of these, Kanamycin being the best, but they will really knock it out together.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 13, 2015
  17. MumValued MemberMember

    None of those are available at either of our LFS, I will have to order both online and they won't be here any earlier than Saturday. Is there something that is sold in large LFS chains that will help until the big guns arrive?
     
  18. Sarcasm IncludedWell Known MemberMember

    Petsmart carries API General cure, which is metronidazole(broad spectrum bacteriacide) and praziquantel(anti-parasitic), they also carry tetracycline(good only in low PH and light sensitive). You need to remove tetracycline from the system before putting in any other medications. Petco doesn't carry anything of use.
     
  19. junebugFishlore LegendMember

    You can also get meds from a fish specialty store, or online... What you buy will depend on what they have, but you need antibiotics. Natural remedies and fungus meds aren't going to do anything, just like they wouldn't do anything for you if you had a bad staff infection.

    Metronidazole may help, fish-mix may help. Mostly if you only have Petco and Petsmart near you, or the like, you'll want to look for a medication that treats columnaris. Then read the ingredient list to make sure it has actual antibacterials in it.

    Edit: That was supposed to say "fish-mox". It's veterinary grade amoxicillin.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2015
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