Ich on my goldfish, isn't going away

FrillyLily

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I have a 40 gal tank w a velitail and went to the store 3 wks ago and bought 2 more. I put them in a 10 gal for a quarantine, after 2 weeks of looking great, and thinking okay I'll put them in the bigger tank I noticed two tiny white spots on one of them. I completely emptied the tank and removed gravel and used hot salt water on everything before putting it all back together. I added 3 tsp of natural salt to the tank. I ordered some ich-x which I got a couple days later and I have used that now for 3 or 4 days w 1/3 water changes like it says. The ich is much worse than when I started, little white dots all over one of the fish and the fins on the other fish look ragged, almost like I am wondering if the salt or the ich-x is burning his fins? I did not heat the water since they are goldfish and the tank stays at 72 pretty firmly. Should I be using more or less or no salt? Should I keep using the ich even if it doesn't look like it is working? Do I need to heat the water?
Is there any way to save them?
 

Datpersonwithplaties

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If this happened to my fish I’d immediately take them to a skilful fish keeper who looks after them. If you know anyone who has this skill and could get your goldfish’s ich gone, that’s great! Ring them up, ask them and take your fish round to them. If you can’t do that, ask a very skilled fish keeper on this website. Good job for noticing! :)

If you can’t do either of those by the way, use less but still a bit ich salt. Check on your goldfish frequently and google things like cures for ich or something.
 
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FrillyLily

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Everything I read says to do what I AM doing, but it is only getting worse :( I put a heater in there while ago, just watching it. Don't know how it will work cause it is for a 40 gal tank and it is in a 10, but may as well try it since they are not getting better anyway.
 

LifeGivesYouLemonOscars

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Ich will show up on the fish then fall off into your gravel that's where it will breed and multiply then will get back in your fish. The trick to get rid of ich is when it's in the gravel breeding to kill it. It won't die if it's on the fish you have to wait till it falls off the fish then treatment with some ich cure will kill it. You have to kill it when its multiplying. Make sense?

If you want to kill it in the tank without chemicals take the fish out into another tank to treat and in the infected tank turn the water temp up to 98°

Don't forget if you go the chemical way make sure you take out any carbon. You use carbon to take out medications
 
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FrillyLily

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I took the carbon out right away so that's gone. I don't have any gravel in the tank, it is a bare tank, so there isn't anywhere for it TO breed (? right?) I don't see how putting them in another tank will work if the ich is still ON the fish, won't they just still have it in whatever else I put them in? I can put them in something else, turn up the temp, but then what? How do I get it off the fish itself, he's covered w it :(
I have been doing 30% water changes daily along w the med.
 

LifeGivesYouLemonOscars

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Medications won't kill ich if it's still in your fish. It will eventually fall to the bottom of the tank and it actually goes into a gel like sack to multiply then it releases. This is when it is vulnerable. It will then attach itself back to the fish and you won't be able to kill it again. Raise the temp a little this will speed up the ich stages. Watch for it to fall off your fish then start the medications. Water changes in between treatments. This will take about 3 weeks.
 
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FrillyLily

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How high can I raise the temp for a goldfish? How long do I keep it raised? I have been using salt with the ichX, should I be doing that? There is an airstone, no hood (open top) and a 40 gal filter on it so lots of air movement. Thank you for helping me :)
 

LifeGivesYouLemonOscars

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I wouldn't do any salt especially with goldfish when raising the temp. The salt with goldfish helps it make extra slime it's like putting on a jacket in the summer. I'd put the temp to Bout 78 to 80. Air stone is fine
 

LifeGivesYouLemonOscars

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Put the carbon back in till you see the ich is off the fish then remove it. You probably have a bunch of meds in the water. Not sure if the ich will drop if the water has the meds in it. That I don't know

When adding salt to your tank I'd only ever use half the dosage it called for and don't add any if your just topping off the tank only water changes

I forgot Slowly raise the temp.

Let me know the outcome I'm pretty interested now
 

SM1199

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LifeGivesYouLemonOscars said:
If you want to kill it in the tank without chemicals take the fish out into another tank to treat and in the infected tank turn the water temp up to 98°
Certainly do not turn the heat up to 98! That is incredibly high, even for tropicals, let alone goldfish. I would do 80 max. I hope you mean 78 like you said afterwards. The heat helps accelerate ich's lifecycle - it does not kill it - so there is no point in going overboard on heat.

I would stop dosing the salt entirely. It works as a substitute when you don't have ich-specific meds. Keep up with the ich-x.

When you notice one day that some or all of the white spots have fallen off, do as large of a water change as you can, and vacuum the gravel. Re-dose the ich-x. Repeat if necessary, once they have completely fallen off, if they don't fall off all at once.
 

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There are three common methods of treating ich. (1) the temperature method (over 86 F for three weeks), (2) the salt method, and (3) medication.

Do not combine methods. Choose the one that works for you and stick with it. If you combine methods you'll do nothing but add stress to your fish.

With goldfish the best method is probably medication.

The life cycle is the white spot (can't kill it), the cyst (white spot falls off and sinks to bottom and multiplies - can't kill it), and the free swimming stage (the cysts explode and release zillions of little parasites into the water column - this is the only phase where you can kill it no matter which method you use). This is why you need to keep treating for at least a week after the white spots disappear.

The only phase where you can kill ich is one of the invisible stages, which is why it's tricky.

Don't wait until the white spots fall off. The parasites don't communicate with each other and decide to stop one phase and go to the other all at once. Once you see ich, you have white spots, cysts, and free swimming stages already. Start treating immediately once you see the white spots.

No fishkeeper is going to take your fish and cure them. Who in their right mind would want to intentionally bring ich into their fishroom?

Do lots of water changes, and keep medicating for at least a week or ten days after the white spots fall off. Your fish probably continued to have the disease either because water parameters were bad or you stopped treatment too soon. If you've been doing 30% water changes every day, that's great, but if you weren't aggressive with water changes before the problem surfaced, that's probably why your fish got it.

SM1199 said:
The heat helps accelerate ich's lifecycle - it does not kill it - so there is no point in going overboard on heat.
Heat is a legitimate treatment for ich. Most strains of ich can't reproduce above 86 degrees. However, in this case, with goldfish, the heat method is a bad choice because it will weaken the goldfish. Medication is the best choice in this situation.
 

SM1199

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GuppyDazzle said:
Heat is a legitimate treatment for ich. Most strains of ich can't reproduce above 86 degrees. However, in this case, with goldfish, the heat method is a bad choice because it will weaken the goldfish. Medication is the best choice in this situation.
I miss-spoke. I was intending on conveying that obtaining and maintaining a temperature above 86 degrees will not magically kill the ich straight off the fish, just like the meds won't either. That and it is not a feasible temperature range to reach for goldfish.
 

LifeGivesYouLemonOscars

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Yeah I said to remove the fish to turn it up to 98°

What I meant was when the ich would fall off the fish take the fish out turn up the heat to kill it........obviously I didn't mean with the fish in the tank

I don't know why you would waste medication when you know it's not going to be effective until it's off the fish.
 

Islandvic

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Frequent and large WC's + elevated temps on the mid 80's is one of the easiest and most effective ways for Ich treatment.

Something like 50% WC every 3 days is a good start, along with a vac of the substrate. This removes the free floating Ich.

Is the Ich-X you ordered the Hikari/Aquarium Solutions brand? If so, it's very similar to the Kordon Rid Ich Plus as far as the ingredients go.

If your tank is still at 72f, then bumping up the temp speeds up the life cycle of the Ich.

Continue your treatment regimen for at least 10 days after the last sign of visible Ich is detected.
 

UnknownUser

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GuppyDazzle said:
There are three common methods of treating ich. (1) the temperature method (over 86 F for three weeks), (2) the salt method, and (3) medication.

Do not combine methods. Choose the one that works for you and stick with it. If you combine methods you'll do nothing but add stress to your fish.

With goldfish the best method is probably medication.

The life cycle is the white spot (can't kill it), the cyst (white spot falls off and sinks to bottom and multiplies - can't kill it), and the free swimming stage (the cysts explode and release zillions of little parasites into the water column - this is the only phase where you can kill it no matter which method you use). This is why you need to keep treating for at least a week after the white spots disappear.

The only phase where you can kill ich is one of the invisible stages, which is why it's tricky.

Don't wait until the white spots fall off. The parasites don't communicate with each other and decide to stop one phase and go to the other all at once. Once you see ich, you have white spots, cysts, and free swimming stages already. Start treating immediately once you see the white spots.

No fishkeeper is going to take your fish and cure them. Who in their right mind would want to intentionally bring ich into their fishroom?

Do lots of water changes, and keep medicating for at least a week or ten days after the white spots fall off. Your fish probably continued to have the disease either because water parameters were bad or you stopped treatment too soon. If you've been doing 30% water changes every day, that's great, but if you weren't aggressive with water changes before the problem surfaced, that's probably why your fish got it.
You have a lot of people answering different things. This is the best answer. Follow what this one says.

LifeGivesYouLemonOscars said:
What I meant was when the ich would fall off the fish take the fish out turn up the heat to kill it........obviously I didn't mean with the fish in the tank
You wouldn’t remove the fish. It doesn’t all fall off at once. It’s a constant cycle. Hence the term “life cycle”. Putting the fish in a different tank is stressful and puts ich in both tanks.

LifeGivesYouLemonOscars said:
I don't know why you would waste medication when you know it's not going to be effective until it's off the fish.
The meds kill the parasites when they fall off. It is a continuous cycle. They are always falling off. The meds interrupt the parasite’s life cycle before it gets back on the fish, effectively lessening the amount of parasites in the tank with each cycle.
 
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FrillyLily

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Okay for some reason I was not getting an email about these replies, sorry about that. One of the fish still covered in spots, they never fell off, it died tonight :( I have the tank at 88 now and it has been that way all today and was raised up to that over the previous day or so. The other fish does not look like it has any on it. I don't know what to think about that. As far as the water parameters being bad, I can't imagine that, Ive been doign 30% changes daily and there is no gravel to hide rotted food ect, I did not discontinue treatment at any time after I started. After I bought them they looked fine for about 13 days and then one got the spots., the one that died. Not sure what to do now, for the other one?
 

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