Ich, Need To Understand Aspects Of The Disease (ick)

I have read the post "ICH (ICK) Life Cycle and Natural Treatment" as well as other articles and posts throughout the net.

From API: "Ich, a protozoan parasite, also known as white spot disease, is caused by the external parasite Ichthyophthirius multifiliis. This microscopic parasite has a multi-staged life cycle and is invisible during its theront stage. Theronts burrow into gill and skin tissue causing severe electrolyte loss and gill damage and promoting secondary bacterial and/or fungal infections. Early symptoms of this infection in fish include darting in the aquarium and scratching against the gravel and ornaments. Fish exhibit labored breathing and may remain at the water’s surface, near filters and aeration devices. White spots may or may not be visible on fish"

Q: Can a fish get in contact with Ich (let's ay through the gills) but fight it off?

Q: If not, then how long can the fish carry the parasite in a community tank being a threat to give it to others?

Q: If yes, then never show white spots?

Q: If yes, and if that was the only parasite in a community tank, is the Ich then dead and no longer a threat to the community tank?

Q: I have had fish that had it, then used API super Ich cure, then the fish lost the white bump, but dried white spots remained. Looks like scars. About how long before the white spot scars heal up and are no longer visible?

Questions assume tropical tank at average temp of 79

I had a younger guy at the LFS say that Ich is ALWAYS present, all fish either have it or can get it when stressed, but I said no, my books state that Ich is a parasite, not an airborne disease, therefore Ich has to be introduced to a clean tank and it's Ich-free fish, therefore regardless of the amount of stress, a fish will never just come down with Ich if it's not already there in the first place.

Therefore, please do not reply to the post with answers that are semI guesses. Let's get down to the facts on this since it is a serious disease.

 

Ich is a protozoan, it could attach to the fish, and the fish could survive the life cycle of it. Once we normally see it, it's attached. It also has been feeding, likely for a while to get to the stage large enough to where we can see it. One large enough it "drops" and then becomes:

A tomont, which moves about and eventually needs to latch onto something, this leads to reproduction. Which is basically the bursting of a cyst filled with little: swarmers.

These swarmers (I forget the scientific name) now need to find a host or will die in less than a week (lots of variables on this time), if they do find a host the cycle starts gain, this time with a LOT more bad guys present in the closed environment of a fish tank.

Ich has shown no long term dormancy stage. Ich has never been proven to always be present, and looking for a fish. That being said strong healthy fish could have ich on them but never show. Then when a weaker fish is introduced they would become Ill.

Those are all facts. What I will say now has never been proven or disproven. I believe the aforementioned scenario is where this is where that myth came from.


Does that help?

TT

 

Ich is a protozoan, it could attach to the fish, and the fish could survive the life cycle of it.

Most of that I know, but there are a lot of unclear areas... So you are saying that Ich attaches to a healthy fish, the fish never shows white spots, the life cycle at 79 degrees lets say is 4 days, the ich parasite (since there are no white spots) never got to the stage large enough and never dropped, but instead died and now the community tank is Ich free?

That being said strong healthy fish could have ich on them but never show. Then when a weaker fish is introduced they would become Ill.

So you are saying we have 2 fish, one has ich kind of semi-attached on it and the second fish, which is weak, gets ich because the parasite came loose from the healthy fish and attached itself on the weak fish (lets say through the water flow current of the filter) and now the healthy fish is completely ich free and the weaker fish "has it"?

But if the parasite gets loose, and lets say gets sucked out accidentally through routine 25 percent water change, then our tank is ich free?

The healthy fish is not going to have the ich parasite for more than a week, for example, and not show it right?

I appreciate the long reply, but it still does not really clear up my questions... For example, an additional question to the original post, can I have a quarantine tank with 1 new fish it in for 7 days at 79 degrees with no white spots and mistakenly assume that it is ich free, transfer it to the community tank and now have introduced ich into the community tank?

 

Most of that I know, but there are a lot of unclear areas... So you are saying that Ich attaches to a healthy fish, the fish never shows white spots, the life cycle at 79 degrees lets say is 4 days, the ich parasite (since there are no white spots) never got to the stage large enough and never dropped, but instead died and now the community tank is Ich free?

the ich cycle could complete. It could cyst and reproduce, though there would be a lot fewer swarmers since it never got too large in stage one. But this could continue and your healthy fish could be a unknowing host of the ich for however long the cycle continues. So Ich could be on the fish, the fish could fight it off continually and again this is where the "ich always there" myth comes from IMO. Then when the fish is stressed, it can't fight off the ich, and you see it.
OR
what you said above could happen. Both are viable.

So you are saying we have 2 fish, one has ich kind of semi-attached on it and the second fish, which is weak, gets ich because the parasite came loose from the healthy fish and attached itself on the weak fish (lets say through the water flow current of the filter) and now the healthy fish is completely ich free and the weaker fish "has it"?

The odds of one fish having it in a tank and the other not are very low. Likely both fish have it, one is showing signs and the other isn't. The one that isn't is the healthier, and this time was able to resist it. However when the sickly fish's ich spores since there will be multiple times the number of "ich" the odds that the healthy fish will again be able to fight it off are reduced.

But if the parasite gets loose, and lets say gets sucked out accidentally through routine 25 percent water change, then our tank is ich free?

The odds of you vacing all of the ich out when it's swarming is very low. But in theory yes this is possible, though highly unlikely.

The healthy fish is not going to have the ich parasite for more than a week, for example, and not show it right?

See above in theory this could continue for several cycles.

I appreciate the long reply, but it still does not really clear up my questions... For example, an additional question to the original post, can I have a quarantine tank with 1 new fish it in for 7 days at 79 degrees with no white spots and mistakenly assume that it is ich free, transfer it to the community tank and now have introduced ich into the community tank?

The idea of a quarantine does a few things. A lets see if anything manifests in this fish, ie stress/ick. B treat the tank. In one week at near 80 I wouldn't definitively say it's gone. In 14-21 days I'd feel a lot more comfortable saying that.

That help?

TT

 

Yes, thank you!