Ich cures that AREN'T linked to carcinogens!

180 litre Juwel Rio. 12 Green neon Tetras, 7 Lemon Tetras, 4 Otos, Pair of Cockatoo Dwarf Cics and some Red Cherry Shrimp. Quite heavily planted. Used a 6 week ammonia fed fishless cycle. PH 7.2, Amm 0, Nitrites 0 and Nitrates 5-10 ppm


Hi, first time posting on this forum although I've been using it loads for info. One question really - are there any treatments out there for treating Whitespot without feeling your using really dodgy chemicals? Just slightly unpleasant ones would be a start!
I'm new to fish keeping and made the mistake of not quarantine my fish. Only 4 or 5 of the GNTs are showing white spot and I'd say the Ich has been through 4 cycles. I've been treating with Herbtana (due to no obvious normal meds outside of the afore mentioned carcinogens) and it seems to be allowing the fish to keep the disease in check (never more than 1 spot per fish and always on the fins not the body) but the Herbtana does not seem to be offering a coating to the fins. I'm running a hospital tank at the mo and this herbal remedy seems, at least, to be buying me time but I really need something that knocks it on the head. I have kids and Inverts AND a healthy distrust of any thing national Gvrnments try to ban. Are there ANY options or advice you could give please? Ps I tried heat and fish really seemed unhappy above 82 deg f.
Would appreciate your feedback.........

 

Here you go:

https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfishforum/threads/curing-ich-naturally.105665/

 

not so naturally you could use a number of medications I believe prazI pro hits ich. I would avoid salt as part of the treatment oto don't really fair well and tetra don't particularly care for it either.

 

I have personally cured ich many times using only heat. I use to use aquarium salt as well but recently proved to myself that it isn't necessary. Just slowly (over the course of a day or 2) raise the temp. in your aquarium to around 88F and let it there for about 2 weeks. Then slowly lower temp. back to normal. Simple as that...no more ich.

 

Brilliant info, cheers.
I really want to use temperature but my fish get really aggitated (almost constantly swimming around very quickly and getting aggresive with each other).
Question to you all and possibly jwhorner most would be if this is to be expected and what you've experienced or will the hightened activity damage/kill the fish anyway?

 

Good morning,

I have also used the increased heat method to remove ICH with 100% survival rate (no salt).

Ken

 

The biggest thing about increased heat is to do it slowly and to have lots of aeration also some fish are more sensitive to heat than others oto and tetra are on the list as 80 is the max they like to be in some snails are also sensitive to it. What I would consider is once any spots dropped off move the clean occupants out of the tank then either nuke the tank with boiling water and or salt and start cycling it over, or slowly increasing the temp to up to 86-90 and just taking the losses caused by the stress.

 

Good morning,

I respectfully disagree with some of the information provided in post #7 above.

Keep in mind that if 1 fish is infected, the entire tank is infected and should be treated as a whole. Moving infected fish that appear to be free of the parasite, from tank to tank, while others are still infected is only going to spread the parasite.

Too, there is no need to boil or sanitize the tank and destroy the cycle. The increased heat method will rid the tank of the parasite if done correctly and the cycle should remain in tact.

Moving the fish may be just as stressful as the parasite itself.

I do agree the temperature should be increased slowly. 2 degrees per hour should do well.

My treatment for ICH without Medications w/100% survival rate:

Increase the tanks temperature to 86 degrees and leave it there for a full two week period. Even if the fish appear to be free of the parasite, leave the temperature increased for the full two weeks. Raise the temperature slowly throughout the day. 2 degrees per hour should be fine.

Warmer water requires more oxygen so adding an air stone/supply line may help.

Do two gravel vacuums each week to remove the spores that fall off the fish and into the substrate. Make sure the new water is the same (86) temperature as what is in the tank.

Adding Garlic Guard or garlic juice onto the fish food 2 or 3 times each week will help to boost the fishes immune system. (link below for garlic juice):
minced garlic in a jar..just an example for those needing it
Garlic Guard:

Making your own juice, recipe:
"Benefits of garlic:

Purifies blood; detoxifies; lowers cholesterol levels; lowers blood pressure; blood thinner; prevents blood clots; boost immune system; prevents heart disease and strokes; destroys cancer cells; muscle relaxant; antibiotic; antifungal; suppresses growth of tumors
Using a medium size bulb; peel cloves apart, snip off ends; microwave cloves for 5 to 10 seconds to pop hulls; remove hulls; cut the length of the cloves in thin slices; place in cup of hot (from tap) water; cover, and let sit at room temperature for 12 hrs; mash the cloves and strain for immediate use; refrigerate until needed. good for two to three weeks.
The longer the cloves soak, the stronger the solution."

The information above comes from the link below:


Vita Chem (for additional vitamins) added to the fish food and directly into the tank will help the fishes overall health. Follow the directions on the bottle.


It's been my experience that salt isn't necessary with the heat treatment.

ICH may appear to get worse, before it gets better.

I highly recommend Quarantine for all new fish:
Quick and dirty quarantine setup

Quarantine!

Best wishes for your fish!

Ken

 

The increased swimming and agitation is to be expected when using the increased heat. It should not hurt them though. I have used this method on many types of fish including some so called delicate ones such as elephant nose fish and have never had a casualty.

 

Welcome to FishLore!!
So sorry you're having to deal with ich.
Good luck!

 

I said the boiling water as a nuke option if ich doesn't stop with going to 86 it is rare but there are some strains that can handle the higher heat all the way to 90+. And at 82 the fish are not responding well and are very stressed the temp might have been raised too fast or they just can't handle it. Also there are a lot of snails and shrimp who have survival time of hours at 86.

Just a few things to consider I have been lucky as to not have had to deal with ich yet. But I did read up when my betta had a single spot on him which turned out to be a pimple as more never showed up and it went away.

 

I am in the "hit it with all you've got" camp. About 6 weeks ago, I picked up some cardinals that had ich. In the past, I had always just QT'ed the infected fish and dosed with some form of malachite green. Ich was always gone in less than 2 weeks. This time though, after reading about the heat treatment, I decided to give it a go in my planted tank. 2 weeks of heat, ich still present. So then I decided to try Kordon Ich-Attack herbal remedy - supposedly safe for planted tanks. Well, after 3-4 weeks of daily double doses, the ich is still there. I finally QT'ed the fish and started treating with the old faithful malachite green. BUT, this time, the ich has grown stronger and I've been treating for almost 4 weeks now. Bottom line: skip the hippie and QT/nuke with malachite green. You want to kill your ich, not train it to overcome treatments.

 

Welcome to fishlore. I also highly recommend the heat treatment. I have a 100% survival rate as well. Don't forget to add the airstone.

 

'Thanks' always sounds a bit weak but thanks to you all anyway! All the info and considered opinions you've given here are exactly what I was 'fishing' for. I'm not in the business of knocking other forums so no names mentioned. I was getting a tad suspicous of possible vested interests on another one I was trying, friendly it certainly wasn't. I'm 2 days away from having an emergency tank set up in case the heat proves too much and I have to transfer all my fish to it - diseased, weakened or otherwise. If that happens I will, regretfully, treat with M Green (The tank is at least in an outbuilding away from the kids). I can leave the main tank with just inverts in then (they're so hard to catch!) and not risk putting traces of M Green in the air or ruining its nitrogen cycle and staining the tank. Hopefully though thetemp will be fine and i'm flapping about nothing. DEF quarantining any new stocks. Cheers for the complete feedback

 

Have got my aquarium to 82/84 deg three times now and keep bottling it before going to 86f. Time to hold my nerve I fear!

 

It should be fine. Just remember to add the airstone.

 

Yep, you fish will be fine. I recommend not stopping at 86 though as that is right on the borderline. Maybe not needed but I always take my tanks to 88F and leave it there. Like I stated before I have done this with many "sensitive" fish and have never had an issue and have always cured ich without a loss.

Just remember 2 things...1: once you get your heat up leave it there for 2 weeks...or at least 5 days after all visible signs of ich are gone.
2: you will probably notice the ich get a little worse at first due to the life cycle speeding up as you are raising the temp. For example you are at 82/84 right now...it is not high enough to kill the ich but it is speeding the cycle up and will cause them to spread quickly. Just don't panic and you will see signs of improbement within a couple of days afte reaching your desired temp.

And also like divanina has said don't forget to add an airstone or even lower your tank water a little to allow the filter to splash into the tank creating surface agitation. Because when heat goes up oxygen goes down.

 

Cheers guys. Airstone has been in for a week now. Funny how i've switched from DIY CO2 to air in about 5 seconds once I clocked the Ich! I've now noticed that this hasn't affected the plants one bit!! I've aimed the filter outlet up to create some strong aggitation and i'm hoping that a 15 watt UV filter i've recently got will help a little as well. I'm going to buy a cheapish, variable flow filter to trickle feed it but i've read that UV wattages need to be higher to kill Ich. I'll soon see no doubt! Going to have to add another heater to get it up to 86+ as mine is only just getting it to 84 deg F, which, as you say, is a sort of hyper zone for Ich. Thanks for the help. Hope I never take it for granted that like minded people can offer assistance from 3000 miles and 5 time zones away!!! Bonkers modern magic and electrickery I reckon!

 

Thanks for the advice. No signs of any white spot yet on this cycle and I'm putting in the other heater today to get above 84f. You're right, it did get a little worse and I'd imagine it's still in the tank but it's never been more than a couple of spots and right now (after about 4-5 cycles) no fish have any spots. Fingers crossed. I think the Herbtana works quite well now I'll just use heat to be sure.

 

glad to hear it is getting better. Just remember not to stop the treatment pre maturly. Keep it going for several days past any signs of ich and you should be good to go. Also remember when you are done treating to lower the temp. back down slowly. That usually isn't very hard since water holds heat pretty well.

 

Still no spots and still no idea what Herbtana is actually made from, even after receiving an e-mail from the company that makes it! 6 days spot free now (no, the fish, not me!). I'm going to keep treating for another week to be sure but if it's worked then I've luckily managed to escape using other, far nastier medicines. Thanks to you lot for all the help and advice, Jim

So Herbtana has definitely sorted out the white spot infection. Was unable to raise temperatures enough to eliminate it through heat and I've not used any other treatmnts at all. I did e-mail Microbe-Lift re the products contents but they're very protective of it's ingredients. They did assure me they were entirely natural though. Very little in the way of warnings on the bottle so I'm assuming that's a good thing and it's been entirely fine for my Inverts and Ottos. Cheers to LFS for recommending this product

 

I am in the "hit it with all you've got" camp. About 6 weeks ago, I picked up some cardinals that had ich. In the past, I had always just QT'ed the infected fish and dosed with some form of malachite green. Ich was always gone in less than 2 weeks. This time though, after reading about the heat treatment, I decided to give it a go in my planted tank. 2 weeks of heat, ich still present. So then I decided to try Kordon Ich-Attack herbal remedy - supposedly safe for planted tanks. Well, after 3-4 weeks of daily double doses, the ich is still there. I finally QT'ed the fish and started treating with the old faithful malachite green. BUT, this time, the ich has grown stronger and I've been treating for almost 4 weeks now. Bottom line: skip the hippie and QT/nuke with malachite green. You want to kill your ich, not train it to overcome treatments.

I would like to change my stance on this topic. I have literally been dealing with ICH for about 3 months. I originally tried the heat treatment but apparently lowered the heat too early and the spots came back. I then treated with Kordon Ich Attack twice per day with no effects at all. Next, I treated with Wardley's Ich Away, also with little to no effect. I finally came back to the heat treatment. It has taken a little over 3 weeks, but my last white spot disappeared yesterday. I will leave the heat turn up for at least 2 more weeks to be certain that I have killed my resistant strain of ich.

 

Ratbag17,

I am moving your post to create a thread of it's own. This thread is a bit old. Moving the thread will help you to receive more responses.

The link to your new thread will be posted here in just a moment and I'll also post a link in your Viewer Messages.

Thanks and Welcome to Fish Lore!

Ken

Here is the link to your new thread:

 

Fishermanspie,


I am moving your post and related posts to create a thread of its own. This thread is over 1 month old. I'll post the link to your new thread here in just a moment and I'll post a link in your Viewer Messages.

Here is the link to your new thread:


Thanks!

Ken