Ich and white spot in tank (AGAIN)

Cooper23

Hey Everyone, i recently got ich on one of my fish in one of my tanks (AGAIN, i had treated it succesfully before) and have treated it three times with blue planet multi cure. The fish that originaly had it doesnt now but has spead it to some others. Now i dont have any multi cure left (Because of covid) and cant get anymore. Wondering what i should do and why it has spread. I do have aquarium salt tho.
Thanks.
 

PeterFishKeepin

Welcome to fishlore :)

How big is this tank? What fish are in the tank? What fish has ich? When did you first notice this?

Some photos will be very useful, you could do some aqua salt? Increase water temp slightly and do water changes every 2nd day or so.
 

Cooper23

Welcome to fishlore :)

How big is this tank? What fish are in the tank? What fish has ich? When did you first notice this?

Some photos will be very useful, you could do some aqua salt? Increase water temp slightly and do water changes every 2nd day or so.
Hey, the tank is 10 gallons, running on 100 gallons an hour of filtration. Stocked with, 10 platies (Juvis), 4 small corys. I do 75 percent 2 times a week. How much salt should i add? Will get photos tomorrow, thanks!
 

PeterFishKeepin

Well good you do waterchanges regularly but I think your going to much water changing plus your filteration is too powerful IMO, also 10gal isn't big enough for 10platies and 4 Cory. I'm not sure how to advice you now but perhaps rehome the Platys and only keep max 4.
 

Cooper23

Well good you do waterchanges regularly but I think your going to much water changing plus your filteration is too powerful IMO, also 10gal isn't big enough for 10platies and 4 Cory. I'm not sure how to advice you now but perhaps rehome the Platys and only keep max 4.
Hmm yeah, I kind of got those fish thrown at me unexpectedly. Even With the tank being planted I won’t be able to keep them? ( Tanks not planted yet, except for a few Dwarf monstera and peace lily) And I’m planning on taking the Cory’s out and putting them in a 20.I understand the tank is very heavily stocked, but why would ich come so suddenly if before they were breeding like crazy, tank was setup for like 2 months before ich issues. Thanks for your help.
 

DoubleDutch

Did you introduce new fish / plants recently?
 

SparkyJones

Ich is a protozoan parasite. You could get rid of 99.9% of it in the tank and have it come back if fish are stressed and immune systems are run down. A lot of times fish that aren't stressed can avoid getting it severely or even at all if they are healthy and the ich just dies off unable to reproduce because it misses the feeding part of its life cycle. If run down and overstocked, it just gets too easy for the Ich. So many possible hosts, and their immune systems run down from the crowding so their bodies can't reject the attachment. 1 gets on feeds, fall off, multiples, repeat and you're back at hundreds and hundreds of them again.

If your fish will tolerate it you could raise the temp to 86f for two weeks and instead of the 75% 2x a week water change do 7x 20% or so with substrate vac removing 2-3 gallons a day and hopefully some ich with it that's freeswimming and encysted laying in the substrate. Whatever you don't get the temp should get.

After that it would be removing the fish for 2 days and cranking the temp over 90f and that will kill them in the tank, let it cool back down to normal and put the fish back. But they could be on the fish still and come back also.

Sometimes it can be ended getting close enough and the ich missing a step in the life cycle when their population is low.

Your stocking is likely the reason you can't get rid of it completely though and it reappears. Tons of filter, tons of water change, both good things when heavily stocked, but its still too much fish in too small volume of water that can't be gotten around no matter how clean you keep the water or how low the nitrates are. Population density leads stress and disease transmissions.

It can be done without meds. Ive had success without them, Ich is heat sensitive, but some types are resistant and require that 90f+ to get them. You'll know if the 86F don't get the job done.
 

Cooper23

Ich is a protozoan parasite. You could get rid of 99.9% of it in the tank and have it come back if fish are stressed and immune systems are run down. A lot of times fish that aren't stressed can avoid getting it severely or even at all if they are healthy and the ich just dies off unable to reproduce because it misses the feeding part of its life cycle. If run down and overstocked, it just gets too easy for the Ich. So many possible hosts, and their immune systems run down from the crowding so their bodies can't reject the attachment. 1 gets on feeds, fall off, multiples, repeat and you're back at hundreds and hundreds of them again.

If your fish will tolerate it you could raise the temp to 86f for two weeks and instead of the 75% 2x a week water change do 7x 20% or so with substrate vac removing 2-3 gallons a day and hopefully some ich with it that's freeswimming and encysted laying in the substrate. Whatever you don't get the temp should get.

After that it would be removing the fish for 2 days and cranking the temp over 90f and that will kill them in the tank, let it cool back down to normal and put the fish back. But they could be on the fish still and come back also.

Sometimes it can be ended getting close enough and the ich missing a step in the life cycle when their population is low.

Your stocking is likely the reason you can't get rid of it completely though and it reappears. Tons of filter, tons of water change, both good things when heavily stocked, but its still too much fish in too small volume of water that can't be gotten around no matter how clean you keep the water or how low the nitrates are. Population density leads stress and disease transmissions.

It can be done without meds. Ive had success without them, Ich is heat sensitive, but some types are resistant and require that 90f+ to get them. You'll know if the 86F don't get the job done.
So when i move them (To raise temp to 90) do they need to be ichless or doesnt it matter? And thanks for the help, will have to remove some fish then.
Did you introduce new fish / plants recently?
Yeah, i introduced the cories quite recently (2 weeks)
 

Flyfisha

Jumping in because I see the medication from the manufacturer blue planet . If you live in Australia Cooper23 our ich is not effected by heat. You will need a medication with malachite green to be used for 10 to 14 days after the last spots are seen.

Ich is a parasite a living creature. Adding new fish or plants are how the parasites have arrived.
 

PeterFishKeepin

I agree with Flyfisha I also have this med I think from blue planet, I've used once on a platy with 2 dots of ich and wasn't effective. Temp increase also didn't help, turned my whole 5 gal hospital tank green wasn't good, didn't work for me don't think I'll use again in future. Multi cure as malachite green I think
 

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Cooper23

Jumping in because I see the medication from the manufacturer blue planet . If you live in Australia Cooper23 our ich is not effected by heat. You will need a medication with malachite green to be used for 10 to 14 days after the last spots are seen.

Ich is a parasite a living creature. Adding new fish or plants are how the parasites have arrived.
Yeah, i do live in australia, i wont be able to get any more medication until monday (next week) What should i try to do if the heat method wont work?
Thanks,
 

Flyfisha

The heat method definitely will not work with the Australian strain. In fact it speeds up the live cycle. Meaning they go from adult to egg to adult in less time.

Without medication all you can do is hope to remove as many eggs from the gravel as possible by vacuuming the gravel. Ok for those people that must use the correct terminology they are not called eggs they are cysts ( whatever) .
The life cycle takes around 10 days depending on temperature. The medication only kills the free swimming parasites on one day after they hatch and before they find a fish. Vacuuming the gravel is a good start if you have access to the gravel. If it’s a planted tank and you can’t deep vacuum you can’t deep vacuum.

Ich is extremely common with many shop brought fish in Australia.( very common) I don’t what to sound like a smart donkey but you need to have medication on hand if you buy new fish OR PLANTS . Even when you have a quarantine tank.

image.jpg The other active ingredient is formaldehyde.

Monday is tomorrow thank goodness.

Follow the instructions when you get the medication.
Do water changes and add more medication to the new water. Gravel vac if possible.
 

Cooper23

The heat method definitely will not work with the Australian strain. In fact it speeds up the live cycle. Meaning they go from adult to egg to adult in less time.

Without medication all you can do is hope to remove as many eggs from the gravel as possible by vacuuming the gravel. Ok for those people that must use the correct terminology they are not called eggs they are cysts ( whatever) .
The life cycle takes around 10 days depending on temperature. The medication only kills the free swimming parasites on one day after they hatch and before they find a fish. Vacuuming the gravel is a good start if you have access to the gravel. If it’s a planted tank and you can’t deep vacuum you can’t deep vacuum.

Ich is extremely common with many shop brought fish in Australia.( very common) I don’t what to sound like a smart donkey but you need to have medication on hand if you buy new fish OR PLANTS . Even when you have a quarantine tank.

image.jpg The other active ingredient is formaldehyde.

Monday is tomorrow thank goodness.

Follow the instructions when you get the medication.
Do water changes and add more medication to the new water. Gravel vac if possible.
Ok, thank you so much, monday, next week....... Haha. Ill do what i can and hope for the best. Thanks for the help.
 

Blacksheep1

Hi cooper23. You’ve had amazing advice above and I wish you the best of luck with the ich. I just wanted to add ( don’t know if you have multiple tanks ) be very careful to not cross contaminate anything and sterilise equipment. After all this trouble I’m sure you don’t want to accidentally reintroduce it again.
 

Flyfisha

Is your home in lockdown with Covid? If that’s the reason perhaps we can get some medication to your letterbox?
What state do you live in ?
I don’t want you to panic but I have had ich more than half a dozen times and did lose fish once that I brought from a Sydney auction because I didn’t notice the ich in time. A week is a long time in the life cycle of these parasites.
 

Cooper23

Hi cooper23. You’ve had amazing advice above and I wish you the best of luck with the ich. I just wanted to add ( don’t know if you have multiple tanks ) be very careful to not cross contaminate anything and sterilise equipment. After all this trouble I’m sure you don’t want to accidentally reintroduce it again.
Yeah, i do have multiple tanks, and will sterilise everything. I have had the best of advise. And thank everyone for helping. Without you guys idk what i would have done. Thank you so much.
Is your home in lockdown with Covid? If that’s the reason perhaps we can get some medication to your letterbox?
What state do you live in ?
I don’t want you to panic but I have had ich more than half a dozen times and did lose fish once that I brought from a Sydney auction because I didn’t notice the ich in time. A week is a long time in the life cycle of these parasites.
Yeah we are, we thought about getting some medication shipped but we have had things take months to get here, since we live in the country (WA). So getting it next week once we can get to the city(perth) will be the fasted option. Thanks for the assistance tho.
 

SparkyJones

Apologies for the bad advice. It worked quite well for me but I don't live in Australia and haven't dealt with the strains you have there. in this case, local experiences vastly override whatever I said! I'm aware of heat resistant strains of ich, just never encountered one that could survive the 90F for two days personally.
 

Cooper23

Hey everyone, im just going to update everyone and want some help with something else. First of all, the white spot has gotten fewer, only one or two fish with it now. And i think the daily sand vacs have been working atreat. I also have a 20 gallon tank ready for the platies, been cycling for a few weeks now. So will be moving them soon. Now as for the moving, should i move them now? Or just move the unaffected fish? Or wait entirely, would really like your opinions on this. And thank you so much for your ongoing assistance.
 

Flyfisha

If you move any fish from the tank that has had even one visible spot on one fish in the last 14 days you will then have to treat two tanks with the medication when it arrives.
The parasites attach to the inside of the gills and other places we can’t see them . Until you have gone at least 10-14 days without seeing one spot on one fish all of the tank is in quarantine. All nets , hoses and equipment should be considered as infected.

Should you decide to move fish. You will just have more work and more expense. When treating multiple tanks you run a bigger risk of running out of medication before killing all the parasites.

I am glad for the sake of the fish less spots are visible. That does mean less parasites are chewing on the fish. There will be some parasites you are not seeing.

You can win this battle Cooper23. Even when you have finished treatment and gone many days without seeing any spots continue using a torch daily to have a good look for spots , just in case.
 

Cooper23

If you move any fish from the tank that has had even one visible spot on one fish in the last 14 days you will then have to treat two tanks with the medication when it arrives.
The parasites attach to the inside of the gills and other places we can’t see them . Until you have gone at least 10-14 days without seeing one spot on one fish all of the tank is in quarantine. All nets , hoses and equipment should be considered as infected.

Should you decide to move fish. You will just have more work and more expense. When treating multiple tanks you run a bigger risk of running out of medication before killing all the parasites.

I am glad for the sake of the fish less spots are visible. That does mean less parasites are chewing on the fish. There will be some parasites you are not seeing.

You can win this battle Cooper23. Even when you have finished treatment and gone many days without seeing any spots continue using a torch daily to have a good look for spots , just in case.
Ok, thank you so much, i will keep medicating the tank. And cycling the other one. Thanks heaps.
 

Cooper23

Hey everyone, just a update. I got some white spot treatment on monday and have been treating that. Its a different brand, will send photos. Just wondering after the three day treatment, do i treat straight after? Or wait a few days? Sorry if i misread something. But thanks in advance
 

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Flyfisha

Hey Cooper23,

When treating the water we are trying to kill the ich on the day it is free swimming. On the day it swims from the gravel and is looking for a host ( fish) . As the medication only works successfully on the one day I believe we need to keep the medication in the water for a minimum of 10 - 14 days. The complete live cycle from egg to adulthood then old age natural death is around 10 - 14 day ,depending on temperature it can be a lot shorter.

I realise the medication you have is not very clear on its long term dosage .

The black picture is of an ich medication. However the two other products also include the active ingredient. They have slightly different instructions. But in general all say the same thing.
1CDEA2CF-369D-46BB-B373-5AA9EE98C307.jpeg
A782E165-F2AD-42C1-8BED-FC98C5083B7D.jpeg

Having listen to long time local club members use this active ingredient some do not even measure the amount they just pour it in.

If it was my tank I would be doing a gravel vacuum and large water change and continuing an UNINTERRUPTED dose in the water.
Water changes at 3 days (if that’s what the instructions say ) will get a full strength dose for the volume of the new water.

Short answer.
No do not wait between dosage.

I have used the brand you brought in the past . It’s very similar in its concentration.
 

Cooper23

Hey Cooper23,

When treating the water we are trying to kill the ich on the day it is free swimming. On the day it swims from the gravel and is looking for a host ( fish) . As the medication only works successfully on the one day I believe we need to keep the medication in the water for a minimum of 10 - 14 days. The complete live cycle from egg to adulthood then old age natural death is around 10 - 14 day ,depending on temperature it can be a lot shorter.

I realise the medication you have is not very clear on its long term dosage .

The black picture is of an ich medication. However the two other products also include the active ingredient. They have slightly different instructions. But in general all say the same thing.
1CDEA2CF-369D-46BB-B373-5AA9EE98C307.jpeg
A782E165-F2AD-42C1-8BED-FC98C5083B7D.jpeg

Having listen to long time local club members use this active ingredient some do not even measure the amount they just pour it in.

If it was my tank I would be doing a gravel vacuum and large water change and continuing an UNINTERRUPTED dose in the water.
Water changes at 3 days (if that’s what the instructions say ) will get a full strength dose for the volume of the new water.

Short answer.
No do not wait between dosage.

I have used the brand you brought in the past . It’s very similar in its concentration.
On thank you so much, will keep treating the tanks then, and doing gravel/sand vacs. As for medication, the pet shop i went to only had that and multi cure, i got multi cure aswell. Just wanted to try a different brand first. Wants your thought on the treatments? In your opinion what would be best in later times. Thanks so much for your help during all this. Dont know what i would have done without the help.
 

Flyfisha

When you have not seen any spots for 10 - 14 days you can stop treatment. Using a torch each day ( approximately) just to make sure no new spots turn up . It’s always possible one ich gets missed goes to adulthood drops eggs and a few days later eggs hatch . I have not had it happen but looking at the fish is the suggestion?

Fresh water is our best medication available over the counter.

I have Indian almond leaf , alder cones and oak leaf in most tanks. Local club members swear by Rooibus tea as an antibiotics anti fungus. I have the tea bags on hand 365 days a year but can’t say I have seen any miracles?

image.jpg
The only medication I have as a routine is de worming.
Sometimes I dose plants from auctions with malachite green but often I don’t. Only once have I ever got ich from Petbarn plants.
 

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