Ich and Platy Aggression... help!

I disagree. Every time it comes up, we learn a little bit more. Maybe not learning a new fact about it, but at least gaining a bit of a better idea of what it does and doesn't do. .

yea I was just trying to be funny. it seems to come up a lot! maybe ill give some a try next time instead of maracyn. I probably still won't use it with my bettas, just in case. I know maracyn is safe for them as I have used in many times. also never tried coppersafe.

 

Just realized something I forgot to ask concerning the Rid-Ich:

Will it stain my gravel at all?

Also what do I do with my fake log that has a Java fern grown onto it? It's pretty big so I don't have another tank to put it in or anything... and the log is light tan so I have to remove it. Should I perhaps find a container and fill it with some tank water next time I do a water change?

I guess I seem paranoid but I really don't want to have to replace anything in the tank. And I'd rather not take any chances

 

I've never used Rid Ich but I have used Rid Fungus. It didn't kill or stain anything. Smells kinda nasty though.

 

There isn't much I feel like commenting on in this thread, as it seems to be full of very passionate people. What I will say is that I respectfully disagree with the statement that removing your substrate will cause a mini-cycle, this is false. Your beneficial bacteria lives on every surface of your tank, the majority of it being in your filter. If you have a cycled tank with an established filter, removing all of your substrate won't have any side effects whatsoever. Having faith in that fact, I recently switched from gravel to sand, and not even a digit of change in my water stats. As long as your tank is cycled and your bacteria colony is matured, you can do anything you'd like with the substrate, including excessively vac'ing (as the bacteria produces a glue like substance that adheres it to surfaces).

It kind of depends on how well-established your tank is. If it's barely cycled, removing the substrate can remove a large enough amount to cause a minicycle, simply because there's barely enough there to begin with

Just realized something I forgot to ask concerning the Rid-Ich:

Will it stain my gravel at all?

Also what do I do with my fake log that has a Java fern grown onto it? It's pretty big so I don't have another tank to put it in or anything... and the log is light tan so I have to remove it. Should I perhaps find a container and fill it with some tank water next time I do a water change?

I guess I seem paranoid but I really don't want to have to replace anything in the tank. And I'd rather not take any chances

Remove anything light-colored. I think gravel will be OK but the stuff turned my airline blue XD. Rid-Ich does work and did not hurt my featherfin catfish, if anyone's wondering. It may stain your aquarium silicone but that has not occurred in my aquarium.

The reason I would shy away from melafix (besides the obvious argument that it's risky - apparently, even if those deaths were caused by an OD, it's an easy thing to mess up with on labyrinth fish) is that it is specifically marketed for bacterial infections, while ich does not fall into that category. It might work, but ich is not on the list of what it is supposed to treat.

 

Unless you're using a UGF, there isn't going to be much water running through the substrate. Also, if the tank is young, there is still going to be much more beneficial bacteria in your filter than anywhere else.

Bacteria needs food. The more water flowing through media, (whether it be gravel or a filter) the more food you're bacteria will have. The more food, the larger the colony

This is why canister filters make such good bio filters.

 

I still feel removing the gravel on a possibly new thank, new filter, overstocked is a lil unsafe. I had a ammonia spike shortly after a fishless cycle, new tanks don't take much to get thrown off. although I completely tore down my 20g, let the filter run on another tank. switched gravel, painted a background and the filter was the only thing I added back, it was fine.

now that being said where not even sure the OP has a cycled tank. ill play ken here and remind everyone we need to stay on topic. helping cure ich and get this tank cycled. aquaticat now has plenty of info on removing the gravel if they want to go that route.

Just realized something I forgot to ask concerning the Rid-Ich:

Will it stain my gravel at all?

Also what do I do with my fake log that has a Java fern grown onto it? It's pretty big so I don't have another tank to put it in or anything... and the log is light tan so I have to remove it. Should I perhaps find a container and fill it with some tank water next time I do a water change?

I guess I seem paranoid but I really don't want to have to replace anything in the tank. And I'd rather not take any chances

I would move your plant and log into a bucket or tub. leave it in the sunlight or put a tank light over it. if its light colored it could stain it, I would remove anything that I don't want stained. you could go buy some cheap decorations to use only for treatment, that's what I do. I have decorations for my QT tanks. some people use pvc pipes or whatever they can find that is safe. it is possible it could stain your silicone. if you are that worried I would use the heat

 

It kind of depends on how well-established your tank is. If it's barely cycled, removing the substrate can remove a large enough amount to cause a minicycle, simply because there's barely enough there to begin with

Indeed, that's why I was sure to state:

As long as your tank is cycled and your bacteria colony is matured

As long as your bacteria colony is a mature colony, you can remove your substrate and change it as many times as your heart desires, without causing the tank to re-cycle, but ONLY if the bacteria in your filter is mature. I too, would not recommend anyone swapping their substrate if you are cycling or recently cycled.

 

Hello again everyone,

So good news: I was finally able to get the API Master Test Kit and a gravel vacuum. So, I decided to test the water and then do a water change. These are the results:

pH 7.5

Ammonia 0.25 ppm

Nitrite is between 0 and .25 ppm

Nitrate is about 60 ppm

Update on the fish: I found one ghost shrimp today and netted him so he doesn't get sucked up when I vacuum. The male sunburst is doing fairly well, his ich cleared up but he's still hiding and not doing much other than coming out to eat every evening. I watched him one afternoon hang out in one of the front corners of the tank, "protected" by the female sunburst. She would hang around him, swimming around the thermometer and pecking the log and gravel, and when the other platies came near she would chase them away. Oddly, she let the betta do whatever and he often swam up to the male like he was checking on him. That betta is funny

I plan on giving the male away once I'm certain he's healthy for the most part, although I'm worried when I do he might not make it. A friend of mine has an empty 5 gallon and they're willing to take him, so hopefully I'll be able to give him over to them soon. And hopefully he'll transition alright.

I feel kinda bad for him, the tank is pink and girly

Edit: I also got some plant supplement tablets. Will these be safe for the shrimp?

 

well it sounds like your tank is cycled dew to how much nitrate there is. it seems to be in a minI cycle, you will need to keep up daily water changes and frequent gavel vacs tell you have 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite. all the water changes will also help to lower your nitrate, its a lil high. id say 40% water changes with prime tell your parameters are good.

glad to hear the ich is going away. make sure you don't turn the heat down to early.

 

I regret to say that the male platy died yesterday morning. I had been planning to send him to his new home in just a few days, but I was cautiously waiting because he looked like he wasn't doing too well. I'm glad I waited and didn't send him off to a totally new environment that would add to his stress.

I plan to do another water test tomorrow, as I forgot yesterday and missed today. I've really been wondering what to do... So my tank stocking is okay now, with only 4 fish and I believe one shrimp is still alive. It molted not too long ago but disappeared again last week. I plan to check out the back of the tank and lift up the log when I do a water change just to see if any shrimp are still alive. I've not seen them come out at feeding time in a while so I'm a little worried, but not surprised if they didn't make it. The other fish are doing their usual things... swimming tirelessly through the log, behind the filter and heater, and foraging around in the gravel. Oh and not to mention trying to uproot the dwarf hairgrass over and over

So now, I've been really thinking about giving away all of the platies and getting some new fish if the tank is truly cycled. Though I used a product that was supposed to add bacteria to start the cycle I know my fish still took a beating from the whole thing, so I really don't know if the rest of them will survive long anyway. The whole thing is a mess; the platies still fight (Though Mr. Betta does his own thing like he's off in his own world and the others go at it), I've had a recent algae problem (blackish-green fuzzies on the log), and now the red wag male has a tiny bit of ich on his tail. I've had the temperature cranked up for a while but I'm sure this is from stress. Aaaah anyone have any suggestions?? They'd be really appreciated I've really messed up on my first tank lol!

 

have you been keeping it extra clean? sometimes new tanks just get algae for a time, it should go away eventually. how long are your lights on? sometimes leaving lights on to long causes algae.

 

Usually the lights in all of my tanks are on about 12 to 13 hours every day. I try to turn them off about the time I turned them on earlier that morning but sometimes they're on later.

As for the algae I've been dealing with brownish-green splotches on the tank walls for a while. I use a magnet cleaner to clean the tank walls about once every week. I just noticed the fuzzy algae a few days ago when I was checking out the plants and such... I recall seeing some before but it didn't last very long.

 

I use these on all of my tanks. It gives me one less thing to have to remember. I use to keep my lights on 12 hours per day as well and was struggling with algae. I have since reduced it to 10 hours per day and things are much better. I also have upped my excel dosing which seems to be helping with the algae as well.

 

So, did another water test today, the results are slightly better than the last one:

Ammonia 0.25 ppm

Nitrite 0 ppm

Nitrate 40ppm

Did a water change and tested again, and got the same results. Every time I test ammonia I get 0.25 ppm... Nitrite and Nitrate results are usually pretty similar each test.

Is it safe to say my tank is cycled? If so I would like to get something to take care of the algae problem if possible. I thought about an Otto but read they are sometimes difficult to keep, and I don't really have a good quarantine setup available. I considered buying a cheap acrylic 5 or 10 gallon and buying an extra filter for the main tank to move back and forth to the quarantine as needed, but I don't know if I can afford it yet. That said, I'd prefer an algae-eater that is fairly hardy and doesn't need perfect water conditions (as I'm still working into the routine of weekly water changes and tests). Are there any good options besides an Otto or Pleco? A snail perhaps?

Other quick question I've meant to ask... I sometimes (like today ) accidentally slightly overdose on the API stress coat and my Aqueon conditioner when I prepare fresh water for my water changes. Will this seriously harm the fish?

 

I'm surprised no one has brought this up yet. ONLY Tetra Safe Start and Dr Tim's One and Only are known to be effective bacteria starters with the correct bacteria. Don't even bother with others. ATM Colony may work but we have not yet tested it much here. I may get countered here, but my advice would be to do an 80% water change, wait 24 hours, dump in an entire well-shaken appropriately sized bottle of Safe Start, and do nothing but use the rid-ich and lightly feed your fish for 14 days. After 14 days if a liquid test kit reads 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and more than 0 nitrates, you are cycled. You would have to use the rid ich during that time because you cannot do water changes during the 14 days unless you get those readings earlier than that.

I can't seem to edit my above post with the iPhone I am borrowing right now so I have to post again. No, slightly over should not hurt your fish.

And yes, go for the snail, but not until you have cured your ich problem as ich meds are usually unsafe for invertebrates. Also, you need to wait until your tank is cycled. You know something, are you testing within 24 hours of a water change? The conditioner may be messing with your results.

 

As far as I know, the ich has cleared up with the higher temperature, so I've decided not to use the Rid-Ich. I have too many newly-anchored Java Ferns (pretty tiny and have barely latched on) to move the log out right now, so I figured I'd stick with the temp raise.

And thank you, Eienna... I tested again just a few hours after the change I'll test again tomorrow and check things out.

As for a snail, what kind? I've always loved the look of Nerite snails, but I don't know much about them, or any snail for that matter Time to research!

After spending a few hours reading up on Mystery snails, I decided it would be a really bad idea to get more than one I'd rather not deal with tons of baby snails right now, that's for sure. Are Nerite snails as prolific of breeders?

Also is plant munching a concern with Mystery snails? My plants are looking better than ever at present so that thought will give me nightmares :shock:

 

just to warn you the nerite snails lay eggs. no babies will come but they are white and HARD to get off. really annoying when you have a black background and the eggs are white. I have a tank that I tore down and cleaned pretty well and the reset it back up, still have eggs on the glass lol.

ottos usually die because there is not enough algae. so id say give them a try, there cooler than snails anyway.

what size tank is this again? usually ottos are best in a 20 gallon and up. that being said I keep them in a 15g.

 

bankruptjojo, it is a 10 gallon. The problem with getting an Otto for me is continuing to feed it. Algae wafers are pretty expensive (almost $5 for the smallest bag) where I live, not sure if that price is the same for everyone else, so a snail would be a cheaper option, if they could live on the algae and flakes that the other fish miss.

ottos usually die because there is not enough algae. so id say give them a try, there cooler than snails anyway.

I do agree with you there though the mystery snails aren't the prettiest in the world, part of the reason why I would go with a Nerite instead. But I do like Ottos.

 

yeah I have the nerite snails I really like them and they do a good job. I just wanted to let you know about the eggs.

 

yeah I have the nerite snails I really like them and they do a good job. I just wanted to let you know about the eggs.

Thanks! I'll probably have to look around quite a bit in my area to find some, my pet stores don't usually have anything but Mystery snails.

Some good news, though: I may have found a fairly good LFS nearby, going to check it out soon!

 

When I woke up this morning and came in to feed everyone I noticed the water was cloudy. The water change I did yesterday was about 40% as I had to vac the gravel. What might have caused this? I'll keep an eye on it today to see if it gets worse/clears up.

 

Cloudy eater is either a bacterial bloom or an algae bloom. As you have been struggling to cycle and stabilize this tank, and as you cleaned it yesterday it is most likely bacterial, which is a good thing. Looking straight down into the tank, does it appear to have a white coloring? That is bacteria. It will clear on its own.

Why are you using a water conditioner and StressCoat? The overdose of both products can lead to issues. StressCoat does everything that the simple water conditioner does....and more. I would only use one or the other. Overdosing products make it more difficult to stabilize a tank and can cause that tiny bit of ammonia you have.

What are your water parameters today?

Did you rinse the filter media with your tank maintenance?

What form of algae do you have? Instead of adding more inhabitants to an unstable environment it would be best to fix the causes of the algae.

 

Exactly how did you rinse the filter, if you did?

 

Catsma,

Yes the water does have a white haze. It has actually gotten a bit better and is harder to see from above. It's a good thing? That really puts me at ease, and kind of excites me

As for the treatments, I don't usually use both but I questioned whether or not Stress Coat really dechlorinated as well as conditioner. Thanks for telling me that though, now I know that my past changes with Stress Coat were just fine. I should have stuck to the system ;D

Eienna,

I don't usually rinse the filter media, but the intake tube and outflow lip have been getting icky lately so I planned on starting that. I've been scared to even touch the filter while my tank is cycling!

New question: how do you go about replacing/cleaning a filter cartridge? My cartridge is green and icky now, would rinsing with treated water do okay? Even then I don't know how well it would clean up :\

I'll do another water test this evening and post the results when I'm done replanting a few of my minI Java Ferns. :shock: Goofy fish.

 

When you do a water change, swish the media gently around in the old water, just to get the worst of the solid junk off so water can flow through it properly. Only do this once weekly, tops. Right now, probably give it two weeks between. Be very gentle until your tank is well-established. Here's a good video on tank maintenance, aside from the fact that you will be doing water changes more often until you are cycled.

 

Catsma,

Yes the water does have a white haze. It has actually gotten a bit better and is harder to see from above. It's a good thing? That really puts me at ease, and kind of excites me

Also, a grey haze can indicate overfeeding

As for the treatments, I don't usually use both but I questioned whether or not Stress Coat really dechlorinated as well as conditioner. Thanks for telling me that though, now I know that my past changes with Stress Coat were just fine. I should have stuck to the system ;D

You know, you could/should read the label so you know what the products you are adding to the tank actually do.

My responses are in the quote in this color

 

Also, a grey haze can indicate overfeeding

I only feed my fish a small pinch every other day, as my betta totally inflates himself if I'm not careful. Now I usually net him and give him his own betta pellets so the other fish can have a little bit more.

And yes I read the label Just doubted what I read, that's all. Which it turned out I was wrong ;D

Thank you for the video, Eienna!

Did another water test, the results shocked me:

Ammonia just above 0.25 ppm

Nitrite 0.50 ppm

Nitrate is between 40 and 80 ppm, the chart has always been very hard to match.

Not sure what would have made it spike other than I added a freeze-dried shrimp in for the ghost shrimp (I know that sounds weird or bad, but the ghost shrimp have always loved them) but that's the only thing I could think of.

 

strange I would be doing lots of gravel vacs. could be uneaten food or maybe a fish death, any missing?

so you have not cleaned your filter? that could be it, so clean it in a bucket of tank water after a water change. if you want I will make you a video on how I clean my HOB filters, I have to work on them today anyways. I use aquaclear filters, what kind do you have?

 

All the media in my tank came with an Aqueon kit, so the filter is probably an Aqueon Power 10 filter (or something like that).

And yes, a video would be great!

 

ok ill have it up tonight. it will be diff from your aqueon but same idea.

sorry, I had unexpected company. ill get it done tomorrow.

on your filter the BB/benfical bacteria live on the blue sleeve the carbon bag slides into. being that your is a new tank I would just clean the carbon insert as best you can and not replace it this time. I will clean my filters at the sink but this is not recommend for a new thank its best to just do a light cleaning in tank water to keep all of the BB you can. later you'll have enough built up in the tank and bio media, then it will be ok.

I would like to say I really don't like where aqueon says the BB live. the blue plastic sleeve does not look as good as the bio media in the aquaclear filters, its the white bio balls. just if you every need another filter, next time give them a try.

 

sorry, I had unexpected company. ill get it done tomorrow.

just if you every need another filter, next time give them a try.

That's perfectly fine!

I might get another filter to put in the main tank for my quarantine tank that I'm trying to set up (LOL we'll see how that goes), so if I do I'll give one of those a try!

Also I've been thinking about getting a 20 gallon... not that I'd actually get fish in it for a while, but now that I have a test kit I can do REAL fishless cycling! LOL But for now I have to straighten things out in the 10 gallon... so I have to make myself wait.

For the good of the fish. But MTS has crept its way in!

 

just missed 12, lil late but here it is yours will look a lot different but I hope this helps.

 

I am TOTALLY jealous of your tank

Thanks so much for the video! A LOT different than my filter of course but I get the idea of how to clean mine.

I'm pricing supplies for a 25 gallon tank I need to stop dreaming, it will take a while for me to sort out this 10 gallon after all the mistakes I've made. LOL

 

thanks!

we all make mistakes this site is a life saver.

 

Been a while since I last posted, so a quick update:

Sooner or later I will be rehoming one of the females and the male. I know I've said this several times already, but it just hasn't worked out yet. It should happen sometime this week but I can't guarantee anything. All I know is that it has to happen soon -- the sunburst female recently had a big quarrel with the male and ripped a chunk out of his tail, and everyone has been especially touchy lately (except for Sir Betta). I've finally been able to get a breeder net (Yay!!) so I moved him into it, both so he could rest while his tail healed and so I could monitor how the sunburst and tuxedo got along without him. The two females still bicker a bit, but not quite as much as they used to while the male was present. I let him back out a few days ago to see how they would react. One ferocious fight between the male and tuxedo (which has almost never happened before) and he went back into the net.

So, from seperating the male from the females it has revealed the sunburst to be the root of the aggression problems. She bickers constantly with the male and always has picked on him, so she at least must go. But then I face the problem with the male and female together. Though I do like the male and would like to keep him, I don't want him to be harassed or vice versa, and he will have 5 gallons all to himself so it's a better option

For now, I just have to wait to see if I can get the two moved out sometime soon. Fingers crossed Tired of stressed out fish! Though some of it is my fault, if not most of it

 

Well, if it is your fault, that simply means you have the responsibility to fix it.

 

Now that Christmas is just around the corner, I've been cracking down on my list for a few weeks. I've decided this would be a great opportunity to do some tank upgrades... I will probably ask for an AquaClear 20 filter and a few other things for the plants. Will this be too much filtration for my 10 gallon? I've heard a little more filtration isn't a bad thing but I don't know how strong the outflow is... if it will be too strong it's a good excuse to upgrade to a 15 or 20 gallon ;D

 

A rating at double the tank volume is a good rule of thumb for an HOB, but it is easy to overcurrent a 10g. You could create an outflow baffle.

 

I already have problems with the current filter's outflow, but I've not really done much to soften it because the betta loves swimming through it. Crazy thing ;D

 

I have an AC20 on a ten gallon. No problem. It has flow control on it anyway, making it easy to increase or decrease the current depending on what your stock can handle