I Treated For Ick And It Got Worse

I am battling what I believe to be ick in my one-year-old 8-gallon tank. I am performing 25% daily water changes and treating with Tetra ick guard, but I want to make sure that this really is ick and not something else. I have not added anything new to the tank recently, but these fish had ick once before, so it may have been dormant in the tank.




Tank
8 Gallons
1 Year Old
Built-in Filter
Heater Preset to 78 degrees
Temperature 78 degrees
1 Platy
7 Neon Tetras
1 Nerite Snail
Sand substrate
Moderately planted with Anubias, Bamboo, and S. Repens

Maintenance
I normally do a 25% Weekly Water Change. Right now, I am changing 25% daily.
I dosed 1/2 a tablet of Tetra Ick Guard yesterday and today.

Parameters
The tank has been cycled for nearly a year.
I test with an API Master Test Kit.
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
pH: 7.6

Feeding
I feed twice daily. They get 10-15 Fluval Bug Bites for breakfast and 10-15 HikarI Micro Pellets for dinner.

Illness & Symptoms
The fish are all about 1 year old.
I first noticed the specks three days ago.
I treated with 1/2 tablet of API Ick Guard yesterday and today. I removed the carbon cartridge, but not the other filter media. The tetras appear stressed and are schooling closely. Sunny (the Platy) spends most of his time either resting on the bottom of the tank or rubbing against things. His dorsal fin is down. They eat the food that I offer them, and they seem to have a fairly normal appetite.




The only big change that occurred recently was that I moved my juvenile Peppered Cories out of this tank and into my new 20 Gallon. That was over a week ago. I did my usual weekly water change in this tank on Wednesday. I used lukewarm water and treated it with Tetra Aquasafe Plus like I always do. I vacuumed the sand a bit more thoroughly than I usually do (without the cories around to do cleanup, there was more poop) so it is possible I disturbed something in the sand. I noticed the specks and the other symptoms on Thursday.




This tank has been cycled for nearly a year. Ammonia is always undetectable, and I rarely read any nitrate when I test it. I assume this is because the plants take up most of it (they are growing like gangbusters, especially the Anubias). I detected 0.25 ppm nitrite when I added some root tabs two weeks ago, but it returned to zero after 48 hours.

I have a preset heater, so raising the temperature is not an option. I have one backup heater, but it is also the preset kind. I do not use aquarium salt in this tank because I have a snail, but if worse comes to worse, I can move him to another tank and add salt to this one.

Any insight is appreciated.

 

looks like it.

if you can't raise the temp, treat for 4 weeks.

 

Skavatar, thank you for the reply. Does anyone else have suggestions? Has anyone had success treating with salt? I know you can do it with Platies, but I’m not sure how well the tetras would tolerate it. Should I fast them or just feed what I usually do while they have ick?

Also, the carbon in my cartridge is pretty old, but I took it out while treating to be on the safe side. It’s sitting in a bucket of dechlorinated water. Will the beneficial bacteria on the carbon cartridge survive? If the answer is no, I will just toss it and put in a new the cartridge when this (hopefully) clears up.

 

carbon should be removed/replaced every 6 weeks or so.

 

the situation has gone critical. I have ick in my one-year-old established 8-Gallon tank. The tank has been cycled for over a year, and I have not added anything new to the tank recently.

The tank was stocked with one platy and seven neon tetras. I have been doing daily 25 percent water changes and treating with 1/2 a tablet of Tetra Ick Guard each day for two days. Yes, I removed the carbon cartridge. I woke up this morning and four of my neon tetras had passed away. I immediately did a 50 percent water change, but the three remaining tetras are COVERED in spots, and Sunny the platy is rubbing on everything like a madman.

My heater is preset to 78 degrees, so I currently have no way to raise the temperature. I think the remaining tetras may be goners, but I want to try and save Sunny. If I add salt, will it improve his chances of survival? I will try anything at this point. Please advise.

 

I posted in the disease forum, but the situation has gone critical. I have ick in my one-year-old established 8-Gallon tank. The tank has been cycled for over a year, and I have not added anything new to the tank recently.

The tank was stocked with one platy and seven neon tetras. I have been doing daily 25 percent water changes and treating with 1/2 a tablet of Tetra Ick Guard each day for two days. Yes, I removed the carbon cartridge. I woke up this morning and four of my neon tetras had passed away. I immediately did a 50 percent water change, but the three remaining tetras are COVERED in spots, and Sunny the platy is rubbing on everything like a madman.

My heater is preset to 78 degrees, so I currently have no way to raise the temperature. I think the remaining tetras may be goners, but I want to try and save Sunny. If I add salt, will it improve his chances of survival? I will try anything at this point. Please advise.

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Adding salt may help but use it at half strength with tetras.

 

Adding salt may help but use it at half strength with tetras.

Should I continue dosing Tetra Ick Guard? If so, how much? I have been using 1/2 tablet per day. Is there something better I could use?

 

Should I continue dosing Tetra Ick Guard? If so, how much? I have been using 1/2 tablet per day. Is there something better I could use?

You could try API Liquid Super Ick Cure. It contains a different ingredient (Benzaldehyde Green) rather than Victoria Green in the Tetra product. It may work better. Also, it REALLY would help if you could get your tank temp to 84-86 F. That would speed the cure up considerably. The longer your fish are stressed by the parasite, the more likely they will die or develop fungal or bacterial suprainfections. I'd look into a small adjustable heater and a good tank thermometer.

 

Sorry to hear about your loss.

Unfortunately, ich can kill your fish very fast if you discover it late.

Firstly, are there many white spots on your Platy?
If there are too many white spots, it might be too late to save it.
You might have to remove some fish that have too many white spots in order to save the remaining fish that have fewer white spots.

But if there are only a few white spots, you might be able to save it while you continue with the same medication.

I'm afraid your 1/2 tablet is not strong enough.
According to the instruction, 1 tablet is for 10 gallons. So, your 1/2 tablet can only treat 5 gallons.

Your dosage must be enough or as close as possible to the instruction for it to be effective.
Also, do not overdose.
Note: Whatever medication you used, you must follow the instruction strictly.


You may have to make bigger water change (50-70% or more) to reduce the parasite in the tank as much as possible. Siphon the bottom of the tank when you make water changes to remove the parasites. (my opinion)
The parasites can multiply by hundreds in 24 hours.
The smaller your tank, the more difficult to save the fish since the fish are close to each other.

I don't have experience with Tetra Ick Guard.
But from my reading of discussions in the internets, it seems to me that Tetra Ick Guard isn't very effective.
Salt is not require since you are using Tetra Ick Guard and salt may not be effective for Ich treatment.

Your low temperature(78F) will slow down the treatment.
You will still have to medicate the tank for another 10 days after all the white spots are gone.


Please read the information below.



Medications suggested by the author are Kordon Rid Ich Plus, API Liquid Super Ick Cure, Ich X.





The author suggested SeaChem ParaGuard or Super Ich Plus.

 

Sorry to hear about your loss.

Unfortunately, ich can kill your fish very fast if you discover it late.

Firstly, did you see much white spots on your Platy?
If there are too many white spots, it might be too late to save it.
You might have to remove some fish that have too many white spots in order to save the remaining fish that have fewer white spots.

But if there are only a few white spots, you might be able to save it while you continue with the same medication.
"I think your 1/2 tablet is not strong enough."
Your dosage must be enough or as close as possible to the instruction for it to be effective.
Also, do not overdose.

You have to make bigger water change (60-70% or more) to reduce the parasite in the tank as much as possible. Siphon the bottom of the tank when you make water changes to remove the parasites.
The parasites can multiply by hundreds in 24 hours.
The smaller your tank, the more difficult to save the fish since the fish are close to each other.

I don't have experience with Tetra Ick Guard.
But from my reading of discussions in the internets, it seems to me that Tetra Ick Guard isn't very effective.
Salt is not require since you are using Tetra Ick Guard and salt may not be effective for Ich treatment.

Your low temperature(78F) will slow down the treatment.
You will still have to medicate the tank for another 10 days after all the white spots are gone.

Note: Whatever medication you used, you must follow the instruction strictly.

Thank you. Sunny only has one little spot that I can see, but he is rubbing against things frequently, so I know he has it. I will do a bigger water change and gravel vac really well when I get home this afternoon. I have ordered some Ich-X, because none of my stores carry it. It should be here in a couple of days.

I'm going to wait 12 hours and see if the remaining tetras improve. If they do not, I will euthanize them and pray that Sunny recovers. I am partial to him because he has been with me the longest.

You could try API Liquid Super Ick Cure. It contains a different ingredient (Benzaldehyde Green) rather than Victoria Green in the Tetra product. It may work better. Also, it REALLY would help if you could get your tank temp to 84-86 F. That would speed the cure up considerably. The longer your fish are stressed by the parasite, the more likely they will die or develop fungal or bacterial suprainfections. I'd look into a small adjustable heater and a good tank thermometer.

Okay. I will stop by PetSmart and see if they have an adjustable heater small enough for this tank. I have a digital thermometer and a glass thermometer. As far as I can tell, they are both accurate.

 

I would not euthanize your fish unless they have given up hope.
I have had ich far worse than your photos show and everyone told me for sure my pleco who refused to eat was going to die.
Well they lied. If I had euthanized him based on their advice that my tough fish wouldn't make it, I would have killed him years too soon.
Or her I guess. She's a bushy with no nose

I'm guessing your other tank has ich as well but it's not as noticeable or showing symptoms since you said it was cories.
I never saw spots on my cories so I sort of assumed They're a bit more tolerant and a lack of scales makes it harder to infect them.

To say "my opinion" about cleaning the substrate is somewhat wrong.
It's not opinion it's fact.
Ich creates sticky capsules that collect on your sand, gravel and decor at the bottom of your tank.
This is why vacuuming is important.

If you had fish for a year and 8 months no problem, but suddenly added one fish, that one fish and the water transfered brought the parasite.
It's a huge myth that people say ich is a live in all aquariums.
It's barely even alive in the wild.
Ich can only be introduced like other parasites.

I prefer kordon rid ich because it can safely be double dosed with any fish, doing one dose every 12 hours instead of 24.

I have treated all my fish about 3 times for ich because it kept coming back.
This was about 20-30 days of treatment almost in a row, double dosing it.

Most of the greens are the same just with different names.
Malachite green and victoria green are the same, and are used in every ich medicine.

Benzaldehyde is sort of formalin, I think it said that it's a formin substitute of some sort.
So it should hopefully do the same good job as kordon.
It might even say you can dose every 12 hours on the bottle.

But as others said, you MUST continue to treat 6-10 days after the ich spots are gone.
Because of your temperature, any ich that hasnt yet been killed will take nearly a week before it's in a stage where it can be killed and affected.

Medication only affects one stage at best, and that's the free swimming state before it reinfects your fish, so you have to wait for that stage otherwise you'll end up reinfected and double treating like I did.

I never lost any fish to ich.
What I did lose them to however was columnaris, thanks to a weakened immune system compromised by ich.
Columnaris is always in your tank, and when ich takes hold, it allows columnaris to take advantage, as well as many other diseases and infections.

I would treat all your tanks and renew almost doubleyour water volume for all tanks over the course of this next week, vacuuming well, and allowing your fish a chance to make it.
I believe that lettinng them try to power through it is more humane than possibly ending their lives early.

I also wouldn't use a medication that says that a parasite is "caused by water changes"
Its ingedients might be in the right place, but obviously the knowledge is not if they believe fresh water can cause a parasite to show up from nowhere, and are willing to post that publicly on a site like Amazon.

 

A little warmer water and salt worked miracles on my neons, it took a few days to clear up but they're healthier than ever. Sorry just chiming in with what's mostly already been said! Best of luck in getting them better. (Not sure if salt should be added to a planted tank though)

 

when ich infects the fish you can't see them, they are in the skin. this is the phase Sunny is in.

once you see the little white spots (like salt) it means they have grown and are about to release a bunch of eggs into the water. a few days later those eggs will hatch and swim around and infect any fish in the tank. and the cycle repeats.

 

A little warmer water and salt worked miracles on my neons, it took a few days to clear up but they're healthier than ever. Sorry just chiming in with what's mostly already been said! Best of luck in getting them better. (Not sure if salt should be added to a planted tank though)

For me salt worked better by doing salt baths on each fish since I had extremely salt intolerant cories in my tank.
I just treated one gallon of water with 1.5 doses of salt (forgot how much now, few tsps)
And then only added the water from 4 baths to my whole 20 gallon tank.
So only 30% of the normal dosing for a 20 gallon.

 

Thanks everyone. I am sorry to report that the little Tetras were all motionless when I got home. Sunny, however, is still kicking. I did another 50% water change, vacuumed the gravel, added a teaspoon of aquarium salt, put in the new adjustable heater, and set it to 80.

I don't think Sunny likes the change very much, because he is pacing frantically, but I don't know what else to do.

How long should I wait before I crank it up to 84?

 

You can increase your temperature by 1-2 degF per hour.

By the way, I just want to clarify and share something in case of some misunderstandings with my previous post.

When I said "remove the fish that are greatly infected", I didn't say to euthanize them.
You can remove them and put them in another tank if you still want to save them.
Sorry for the confusion.
By removing them, you reduce the risks to other fish that are not greatly infected.
The more white spots on the fish, the more parasites that they carry and these parasites will multiply very quickly.

Take note that each fish respond differently to disease.
Firstly, most Neon Tetras have weaker genes(due to mass breeding) and their small size make them very vulnerable to disease and they die off easily.

Secondly, bigger fish or adult fish will be more hardy to disease and have higher chance of survival compare to smaller and younger fish.

Thirdly, I find that some bottom level fish like catfish are more hardy to certain disease.

On the other hand, some species like Clown Loach is very vulnerable to ich.
In fact, they are often the first fish to be infected with ich.
Also, catfish or loaches are sensitive to medications and may not do well with some medications.
Some medications may kill the loaches or catfish. You have to use less harsh medications for catfish and loaches.

Fourthly, if you read the links that I sent you earlier, if the ich infected their gills, it will suffocate the fish and kill them.
So, it also depends on "where" the fish are infected.
If it infects their bodies, probably they have higher chance to survive than if it infects their gills.

Also after the ich infections, the fish may get a secondary bacterial infection which will kill the fish.

When I said, "my opinion", I was actually referring to the first sentence "50-70% of water change" and not to the second sentence.
{Sorry for my wrong placement of "my opinion" }.
It can be difficult to explain things in a post / forum.

Yes, it's true that by siphoning/ vacuuming the tank, you can remove the parasites that drop to the bottom of the tank.
I said, "my opinion" because I wasn't sure how much water you need to change each day.
No one knows how many parasites are in your tank at the moment.
So, I'm only guessing.

Fish will get startled if there is sudden movement or change in the water.
Also, they don't like it when you are standing above them(or above the tank) as they are afraid of any moving shadow that fall on them.

When you do the siphoning, you have to move your siphon slowly and more gently as not to shock the fish.

Also, when you pour the water into the tank, you have to pour it far away from the fish and pour it gently and slowly.

 

You can increase your temperature by 1-2 degF per hour.

By the way, I just want to clarify and share something in case of some misunderstandings with my previous post.

When I said "remove the fish that are greatly infected", I didn't say to euthanize them.
You can remove them and put them in another tank if you still want to save them.
Sorry for the confusion.
By removing them, you reduce the risks to other fish that are not greatly infected.
The more white spots on the fish, the more parasites that they carry and these parasites will multiply very quickly.

Take note that each fish respond differently to disease.
Firstly, most Neon Tetras have weaker genes(due to mass breeding) and their small size make them very vulnerable to disease and they die off easily.

Secondly, I find that some bottom level fish like catfish or probably even Pleco are more hardy to disease and have higher chances of survival.
On the other hand, catfish or loaches are sensitive to medications and may not do well with some medications.

Thirdly, it also depend on their sizes as bigger fish or adult fish will be more hardy than smaller and younger fish.

Fourthly, if you read the links that I sent you earlier, if the ich infected their gills, it will suffocate the fish and kill them.
So, it also depends on "where" the fish are infected.
If it infects their bodies, probably they have higher chance to survive than if it infects their gills.

Also after the ich infections, the fish may get a secondary bacterial infection which will kill the fish.

When I said, "my opinion", I was actually referring to the first sentence "50-70% of water change" and not to the second sentence.
Yes, it's true that by siphoning/ vacuuming the tank, you can remove the parasites that drop to the bottom of the tank.
I said, "my opinion" because I wasn't sure how much water you need to change each day.
No one knows how many parasites are in your tank at the moment.
So, I'm only guessing.

Fish will get startled if there is sudden movement or change in the water.
Also, they don't like it when you are standing above them(or above the tank) as they are afraid of any moving shadow that fall on them.

When you do the siphoning, you have to move your siphon slowly and more gently as not to shock the fish.

Also, when you pour the water into the tank, you have to pour it far away from the fish and pour it gently and slowly.

I read 1-2 per day in a "texas" something ich cure post rather than every hour. This is better for more sensitive fish, depending on the type of cory.
Some cories are very sensitive and even when I did 2 degrees per day I still lost my two false julli.
I would do it more like every few hours than every hour.
Going up to 86 ( temperature fatal to ich) from lower than 80 in one day is a big jump.

 

Thanks for the input, everyone. Sunny seems to be doing okay for the time being. The temp is currently 81. I plan to do one degree every 12 hours until it hits 86. Sunny is a tough little guy. He jumped out of the tank and hit the floor on two separate occasions and survived, so maybe he will be tough enough to make it through this.

 

Good to hear that.

Usually if the infection is not severe, you can save the fish.
Just make sure your dosage is enough.

The dosage must be high enough at all time so that the parasites will be killed immediately when they are released into swimming stage.
Also, with fewer fish around, the chances for the parasites to re-infect the fish again will be limited, hence they can't multiply again.

 

Unfortunately, Sunny the platy passed away while I was at work.

I am not sure whether he died from the ick or from stress due to all the changes, and it may not matter anyway, but I am convinced that raising the temperature did more harm than good.

I am trying to see the silver lining here, which is that I moved my cories out of this tank before the disaster occurred. At the same time, I wonder if that change somehow stressed out Sunny and the tetras. The corys were the cleanup crew for this tank, even though it was never meant to be their forever home. After I moved them out, I started noticing A LOT more poop. I had to scoop almost every day, and I wonder if that additional waste caused an ammonia spike in spite of the reduced bio load.

Anyway, I now have an empty 8-gallon full of plants. Not sure if I want to try and keep the cycle going while the ick burns itself out or just completely re-scape it and start over.

 

So sorry to hear about your loss.

I just realized that I didn't notice earlier that you wanted to raise the temperature up to 86F.
For some fish, 86F is too high for them.
82-84F might be the maximum for some fish.

But in our country, the temperature can get up to 86F during the hotter months of the year.
And many fish stores carry the Platy without any problem even during the hotter months.
So, it's quite hard to make a conclusion.

I suspect it could be the severe infections of ich that killed your fish.

Actually, Corydoras only clean up the leftover food. They won't eat or clear the fish poo.
So, unless you had much leftover food, it wouldn't cause the increase in ammonia.

Anyway, I now have an empty 8-gallon full of plants. Not sure if I want to try and keep the cycle going while the ick burns itself out or just completely re-scape it and start over.

If you want to save the plants, you can continue to dose the medications for another two weeks to ensure that the ich are completely killed.
But you may want to remove the gravel for more effectiveness in the treatment and to ensure all the ich are killed.
Sometimes I'm afraid that the ich may hide under the gravel and won't be killed by the medications.(my opinion)

On the other hand, it might be easier to start all over again.
But you have to clean everything and sterilize them.
For tank and filter, you can clean them with bleach but make sure you rinse them well.
For filter media and gravel, usually I will throw them away because it's too difficult to clean them and to ensure they are completely clear from the parasites.
For the plants, you may have to treat them with the medications for 1-2 weeks.

But take note that some plants cannot take medications and they will die.
Also, for future medications, take note that plants may reduce the effectiveness of most medications as they will absorb the medications.
And if you buy new plants again, you have to quarantine or sterilize the plants before putting them together with your fish.
Plants may carry parasites with them just like any new fish that you add into your tank.

 

For the entire tank, as long as there are no fish in it, you don't have to medicate or clean anything.
Ich cannot survive without a host, it starves.
You can also keep your temperature raised while there are no fish in the tank.
And within a week you should be good to go.
It's only 10 days after you see no physical signs of ich (if fish are involved) because of the fact that it is in different stages. If there are no fish to infect, the free swimming ich dies within less than 4 days I believe.
I'll double check with my ich information post, and I can post the whole thing if you'd like.
With a raised temp, you can safely go to 86 and 88 now, it will speed up the breeding process even quicker.
The minimum full lifespan of ich is about 6 days, at it's peak, at it's highest temperature.
86 is fatal to ich.
That temperature shouldn't harm your plants either and is a bit less invasive and time consuming as scrubbing each and every piece for fear of ich.
What you can even do, it just put steaming hot water on or in things.
You can qt the plants alone in a bucket, and fill your tank up with either just boiled water, or water as hot as it comes out of your tap.
Water over 100 degrees will pretty much kill most things on contact. Ich isn't made to withstand heat like that, which is why heat can sometimes be the best treatment.

Vinegar and bleach dips are also just as effective as qting plants, so is buying emmersed plants as they haven't been in contact with fish most times.

 

For the entire tank, as long as there are no fish in it, you don't have to medicate or clean anything.
Ich cannot survive without a host, it starves.
You can also keep your temperature raised while there are no fish in the tank.
And within a week you should be good to go.
It's only 10 days after you see no physical signs of ich (if fish are involved) because of the fact that it is in different stages. If there are no fish to infect, the free swimming ich dies within less than 4 days I believe.
I'll double check with my ich information post, and I can post the whole thing if you'd like.
With a raised temp, you can safely go to 86 and 88 now, it will speed up the breeding process even quicker.
The minimum full lifespan of ich is about 6 days, at it's peak, at it's highest temperature.
86 is fatal to ich.
That temperature shouldn't harm your plants either and is a bit less invasive and time consuming as scrubbing each and every piece for fear of ich.
What you can even do, it just put steaming hot water on or in things.
You can qt the plants alone in a bucket, and fill your tank up with either just boiled water, or water as hot as it comes out of your tap.
Water over 100 degrees will pretty much kill most things on contact. Ich isn't made to withstand heat like that, which is why heat can sometimes be the best treatment.

Vinegar and bleach dips are also just as effective as qting plants, so is buying emmersed plants as they haven't been in contact with fish most times.

Thank you for the input! I have cranked up my heater to 88. Will this wipe out my beneficial bacteria? If so, I will do as you suggest, quarantine the plants, and use the hot water method. I plan to rescape this tank anyway, so I may replace the sand with some higher-quality substrate.

 

Thank you for the input! I have cranked up my heater to 88. Will this wipe out my beneficial bacteria? If so, I will do as you suggest, quarantine the plants, and use the hot water method. I plan to rescape this tank anyway, so I may replace the sand with some higher-quality substrate.

It's possible heat over that would wipe out your beneficial bacteria, but if you do everything except the filters, you should be fine.
It would drastically reduce the current ich numbers regardless of cleaning the filter or not.
Possible a few may be left over in the filter, but with everything else being hot, and clean, it will die much faster.
You could definitely scrap the substrate and get new of that, that will also help a lot with removing numbers too. Especially if you empty all the water, heat rinse the tank and decor then replace the filter with a barebottom and all new conditioned water.

Then I'd feed it some food or a source of ammonia just so you can be sure the sterilization didn't end your cycle.

I wish you good luck with you next endeavors, and I'm sorry I haven't said it sooner, but I empathize with your loss.
I was very sad when I lost my fish I started with. I was so disappointed in myself.
It is rewarding to have learned how to better myself though.