5 Gallon Tank I think my betta is dying...

Hi! I'm a new betta mom of a month. I got Andromeda before I knew about anything about bettas from Petco and started the tank with him in it. I have since learned about the Nitrogen cycle and feel so so terrible about it. I really did mess up here. He was fine and happy for the past 4 weeks. I added some live plants in there and a water lily seed that's growing well and even a mystery snail to keep him company. I feed him a mix of pebble/flakes, frozen blood worms and dried blood worms.

5 days ago we saw him floating to the surface sideways. After further research my partner and I figured it was from overfeeding so we backed off for a few days to see if he was just constipated and fix the issue. Unfortunately this was not the case as today he's not looking too well.
I did a master test the tank:
Ph - 7.4
Ammonia - .25 ppm
Nitrite - 0
Nitrates - 5 ppm

He's also potentially showing symptoms of dropsy I believe. The scales on his stomach is losing color, he's lethargic and I believe he's developing a stomach drop. I will try to get some pics after this post (he's been laying across the bottom of the filter). To see if he'd eat I gave him 2 dried blood worms (his favorite) and he didn't even go near it.

I'm really worried about him and I'm not quite sure what to do. He's my first pet and I've really grown attached to him. I'm not sure what to do first. Do I go for a dropsy treatment? Is it the water levels / the cycling with fish effect? Is is more of a swim bladder issue? Is it possibly something else? I just want to make sure I can do everything in my power to keep him alive.

 

Sorry to hear that, the first thing you're going to need to do is a a couple of back to back water changes. You'll need to keep the water pristine.
You can try adding some Indian almond leaves. It will turn the water brown but those are the tannins and it's really good for bettas.
Feeding daphnia can be used as a laxative, it might help with him being overweight.
Giving him an aquarium salt or a (plain unscented) Epsom salt bath might help as well.

Good luck, I hope he gets better

 

That ammonia reading is problematic. It's probably not outright killing him at 0.25, but it's obviously poisoning him enough for other secondary issues to set in. I believe if you remedy the ammonia issue with water changes, and the aforementioned measures by Ghelfaire in time, he should pull through and start making a recovery.

As for the cause of the new ammonia after a successful cycle, as evidenced by the nitrate reading and the fact that he's not dead yet, I would place my bets on the mystery snail. Snails are a lot messier than you'd think and it could well have tipped the young cycle over the edge.

 

Here are the pics as promised. He's being really difficult with the photos so they're not great. I'm also adding a before pic for comparison

Sorry to hear that, the first thing you're going to need to do is a a couple of back to back water changes. You'll need to keep the water pristine.
You can try adding some Indian almond leaves. It will turn the water brown but those are the tannins and it's really good for bettas.
Feeding daphnia can be used as a laxative, it might help with him being overweight.
Giving him an aquarium salt or a (plain unscented) Epsom salt bath might help as well.

Good luck, I hope he gets better

I'm having my partner get daphina on the way home. I may need to order the Indian almond leaves though so it might be a day or two for that to come in. Would I be able to do the aquarium salt/epsom salt in the tank or should I put him in a quarantine for that? Would the water changes be 100% or 50%? I'm so sorry for all the questions thank you so much for your answers I really appreciate it.

That ammonia reading is problematic. It's probably not outright killing him at 0.25, but it's obviously poisoning him enough for other secondary issues to set in. I believe if you remedy the ammonia issue with water changes, and the aforementioned measures by Ghelfaire in time, he should pull through and start making a recovery.

As for the cause of the new ammonia after a successful cycle, as evidenced by the nitrate reading and the fact that he's not dead yet, I would place my bets on the mystery snail. Snails are a lot messier than you'd think and it could well have tipped the young cycle over the edge.

Thank you for the info I really appreciate it. Should I be doing these water changes daily? Multiple times a day? I was hoping the mystery snail would help keep the tank cleaner... Is this going to have to be remedied constantly because of Gary?

 

Here are the pics as promised. He's being really difficult with the photos so they're not great. I'm also adding a before pic for comparison

I'm having my partner get daphina on the way home. I may need to order the Indian almond leaves though so it might be a day or two for that to come in. Would I be able to do the aquarium salt/epsom salt in the tank or should I put him in a quarantine for that? Would the water changes be 100% or 50%? I'm so sorry for all the questions thank you so much for your answers I really appreciate it.

Thank you for the info I really appreciate it. Should I be doing these water changes daily? Multiple times a day? I was hoping the mystery snail would help keep the tank cleaner... Is this going to have to be remedied constantly because of Gary?

I would suggest daily water changes for the time being.

Gary can stay. Eventually the bacteria responsible for the cycle will grow to accommodate its bioload, probably within a couple of weeks at the most.

 

Daily water changes. I wouldn't do the salt in the tank because of the snail. So either remove the betta and do a short Epsom salt bath and return him to the tank or remove either him or the snail and use the aquarium salt.
Make sure it's aquarium salt and not marine salt...I'm not 100% but I think there's a difference

 

I was hoping the mystery snail would help keep the tank cleaner... Is this going to have to be remedied constantly because of Gary?

You're getting great advice but I just wanted to add that is not how stocking works. A snail will ADD to the bioload of the tank because they produce waste (ammonia) which in turn will eventually be converted into nitrate. The only way they can "clean" the tank is by grazing on algae or leftover food but that does next to nothing to help with water parameters. We are responsible for the majority of the actual cleaning of the tank and there is no way around that.

 

Hi Just an update.
He's still alive but he's still floating by the filter.
I went to a fish store and a really kind person helped me out! They got me the Indian Almond Leaf that's in the tank as well as the aquarium salt and beneficial bacteria that I was told to add with the conditioner with every water change. They also suggested to slow down the filter with some filter foam in case he does try to swim it won't push him around so I did that as well. No daphnia at the store but they suggested to do the pea trick to see if that will help with the swim bladder issues.

We finally got the Ammonia down to 0 for the past 2 days and nitrates are going down as well.

Ph - 7.4
Ammonia - 0ppm
Nitrites - 0ppm
Nitrates - 5ppm

That makes me feel a lot better that I'm finally getting the water under control but he's still having swim bladder issues.

I fed him a quarter of a pea and he took a bite of it but I think he's still constipated. He's been a bit more active but still having a lot of buoyancy issues and gets tired of fighting it so he lays on top of the filter.

I'm worried to do the aquarium salt bath for him in fear of stressing him out too much with the moving of the tanks and I don't want to put it in the water because of Gary and the plants. Is it a good idea to still do the salt bath? Would the movement stress him out too much or possibly put him in shock?

You're getting great advice but I just wanted to add that is not how stocking works. A snail will ADD to the bioload of the tank because they produce waste (ammonia) which in turn will eventually be converted into nitrate. The only way they can "clean" the tank is by grazing on algae or leftover food but that does next to nothing to help with water parameters. We are responsible for the majority of the actual cleaning of the tank and there is no way around that.

I understand that as well I meant cleaning as in eating the algae growing in the tank when I said that. Thank you for the further explanation though I appreciate you helping me out

 

I would also say don't do the salt bath until it's the last resort. There's lots of other things to try first.
I would say do the following steps:
1) Do 25% water changes every day - it is absolutely VITAL you keep the water pristine and since you've got your ammonia to 0 there's no need to do any more but make sure you do them daily to avoid an increase again. Treat your new water with WC or Stress Coat if you can (it's just a normal WC but with added stress-reducing formula).
2) Completely stop feeding him for at least 3-4 days. Don't worry, he won't starve, and trying to feed him in this state will only be doing more harm than good, putting more stress on his digestive system and fouling up the water even more. Keep in mind that a betta's stomach is roughly the size of his eye - only ever feed him this amount. After 3-4 days offer him a small amount of peas (blanched and shelled). Don't give him anything else but peas, every 2nd day until he shows signs of improvement.
3) Keep the lights off as much as possible to reduce stress.
4) If there's no improvement in the next week or so, then I recommend doing what others more experienced on betta medications have suggested you. What I have recommended here is standard procedures to take on constipated, stressed fish but I wouldn't know what exactly he has and what is the best route to take to cure it.
5) Consider re homing Gary or placing him in another tank if he's adding too much bioload to the young tank, or reduce his feeding aswell.
I hope it works out well, and keep us updated! Don't despair, you're already doing a much better job than most other betta owners by researching what to do and fixing your mistakes! Andromeda is lucky to have such a caring owner!

 

Hi, mostly he looks bloated, I think you were just feeding him too much. How much do you normally feed? Fast him for a couple of days and daphnia would be good, as well as frozen blood worms. They are carnivores. I mostly feed my betta frozen blood worms, 2 in the morning, 2 at night and 1 pellet at one meal and 2 floating pellet at the other.

At your PH of 7.4 that small amount of ammonia was in a non-toxic ammonium form so unless it got a lot higher, that is not the issue at play here.

You can give him an epsom salt bath. Use 1/8 tsp in a small container of water and float him in his tank inside the container with the epsom for about 20 minutes once or twice a day. If your betta is like mine, he comes to the surface when I’m near so I simply stick a plastic bowl under him and he is instantly sucked into the bowl with the water. Dissolve the epsom first.

 

I agree with feeding him daphnia instead of a green pea. Daphnia is a natural laxative, and if you incorporate it into his diet, it can really help in preventing digestive issues. You can get it frozen, live, or freeze dried, though the freeze dried version is hard to work with. Frozen is so much better!

I hope he gets better soon!!!!

 

Bettas are very susceptible to bloating. They are one of the few fish that can't process food and calories like a McDonalds, so their feeding must be kept an eye on. It doesn't help that most flake and pellet food is designed for omnivorous fish, not carnivores like him, and he won't be able to digest some of the things in there very easily.

Looking at him again, it would appear that this is the issue he is suffering from. He should be able to make a complete recovery thankfully.

 

Another update for y'all.

Andromeda is the same. He's still laying under the filter. He can hold himself up a little better but not much. Today was the first day I fed him. I finally got my hands on frozen daphnia. It took 4 stores and an hour hike but I finally found it! I just fed him some (a teaspoon amount of the water after melting it in tank water in a small cup) and I'm not sure if he's eating it. I'm trying to leave him be for now so I'm hoping he'll eat some at his leisure.

I would also say don't do the salt bath until it's the last resort. There's lots of other things to try first.
I would say do the following steps:
1) Do 25% water changes every day - it is absolutely VITAL you keep the water pristine and since you've got your ammonia to 0 there's no need to do any more but make sure you do them daily to avoid an increase again. Treat your new water with WC or Stress Coat if you can (it's just a normal WC but with added stress-reducing formula).
2) Completely stop feeding him for at least 3-4 days. Don't worry, he won't starve, and trying to feed him in this state will only be doing more harm than good, putting more stress on his digestive system and fouling up the water even more. Keep in mind that a betta's stomach is roughly the size of his eye - only ever feed him this amount. After 3-4 days offer him a small amount of peas (blanched and shelled). Don't give him anything else but peas, every 2nd day until he shows signs of improvement.
3) Keep the lights off as much as possible to reduce stress.

I've been trying to keep up with the daily water changes but I'm ngl I have missed a couple days but never 2 in a row so it's been a lot more consistent rather than the weekly 40%s I was doing prior. I've been checking the water every other day and everything has been staying consistent.
I've also been keeping the lights off as well and only turn it on for an hour at most to take a peek at him daily.

Hi, mostly he looks bloated, I think you were just feeding him too much. How much do you normally feed? Fast him for a couple of days and daphnia would be good, as well as frozen blood worms. They are carnivores. I mostly feed my betta frozen blood worms, 2 in the morning, 2 at night and 1 pellet at one meal and 2 floating pellet at the other.

So I'm not sure how much we were actually feeding him. I know I was feeding him at night 2-3 frozen or freeze-dried bloodworms daily but my boyfriend was feeding him in the morning. I never explained to him how much to feed him cause I assumed he knew but alas he was feeding him quite a huge sprinkle of bettagran color food.

I wasn't sure if the bettagran was high quality so when I went to the fish store they recommended hikari betta bio-gold which I bought. I hope that is an okay pellet for him once he makes a full recovery.

At your PH of 7.4 that small amount of ammonia was in a non-toxic ammonium form so unless it got a lot higher, that is not the issue at play here.

So I'm not actually sure where my pH is anymore as my boyfriend and I have conflicting views on the color that the test showed up. I figured it was 7.4 however he sees it at 8.2 or 8.4. I'm not sure if it was 8.4 at the most it would effect the situation or if the pH is actually increasing. I'm trying to research if the water lily blooming could have any influence on this or possibly the bacteria added with the water change?

Nevertheless, in case that the pH is rising, the worker recommended a seachem product that keeps the water at a 7pH so I might use that if we are still conflicted when I check the water again tonight before water change.

I also got a betta book at one of the stores. I'm excited to learn more about bettas and create more of a bond with Dromi once he feels better. I think he's scared of me rn when before he was more curious so I'm hoping with the daphnia every other/ every 2 days he'll recover quicker.

Thank you all for being so supportive and positive it really does mean a lot. I'm trying the best I can and didn't realize how much there is to learn but I am slowly getting a grasp on it.

 

I've been trying to keep up with the daily water changes but I'm ngl I have missed a couple days but never 2 in a row so it's been a lot more consistent rather than the weekly 40%s I was doing prior. I've been checking the water every other day and everything has been staying consistent.

So I'm not sure how much we were actually feeding him. I know I was feeding him at night 2-3 frozen or freeze-dried bloodworms daily but my boyfriend was feeding him in the morning. I never explained to him how much to feed him cause I assumed he knew but alas he was feeding him quite a huge sprinkle of bettagran color food.

I wasn't sure if the bettagran was high quality so when I went to the fish store they recommended hikari betta bio-gold which I bought. I hope that is an okay pellet for him once he makes a full recovery.

So I'm not actually sure where my pH is anymore as my boyfriend and I have conflicting views on the color that the test showed up. I figured it was 7.4 however he sees it at 8.2 or 8.4. I'm not sure if it was 8.4 at the most it would effect the situation or if the pH is actually increasing. I'm trying to research if the water lily blooming could have any influence on this or possibly the bacteria added with the water change?

Nevertheless, in case that the pH is rising, the worker recommended a seachem product that keeps the water at a 7pH so I might use that if we are still conflicted when I check the water again tonight before water change.

Yeah it was probably the huge sprinkle of flakes he was getting. He should only get 2 bio-gold pellets 2x a day along with the blood worms and I’d keep those to 2 also.

I’d return the Seachem product for PH. It’s way more important to have a stable ph then try and get a certain number. But if it is 8.2 or 8.4 then ammonia is toxic at low levels, even .25. You will want to do daily water changes and dose prime while you have ammonia. Do you have the liquid test kit for ph? Thats the best reliable way to test ph.

 

At your PH of 7.4 that small amount of ammonia was in a non-toxic ammonium form so unless it got a lot higher, that is not the issue at play here.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that ammonia only became ammonium in acidic pH; above 7.0 it is in the form of the much more toxic ammonia. Why would ammonia be protonated in alkaline conditions?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that ammonia only became ammonium in acidic pH; above 7.0 it is in the form of the much more toxic ammonia. Why would ammonia be protonated in alkaline conditions?

Temperature has an effect also on the toxicity of ammonia in the tank. This is a handy chart I often refer to.