I still have an Icky fish!!!! 20 Gallon Tank

  1. F

    Fancyfish New Member Member

    :mad:

    I thought I was done with Ich but it seems to be back... poor Inago has a little white dot on his dorsal fin. However, it is the only spot I can see at the moment.

    I am having a dilemma: do I assume Ick, jump on it right away and begin treatment, or do I wait and see if a couple more specks show up? I have Ick Attack on the ready but the poor little fellow is just starting to feel better and I don't want to stress him out unnecessarily. I just want to get him through this so he can eventually move into his nice, new tank (once it has properly cycled- I learned my lesson and Tetra Safe Start is on its way!!!)

    He also looks like he has a small, grayish spot on his fin- about 1/8 inch in diameter: hard to get a good look at it to see if it is some kind of fungus or if it is just a colour change. I'll keep a very close eye on this, though.

    I read that a nice bath in some lightly salted water might be beneficial- would this be a good idea?
     
  2. Meenu

    Meenu Fishlore VIP Member

  3. agabr123

    agabr123 Fishlore VIP Member

    i'd go ahead and crank your heater up to about 84, it sounds like you may not have gotten the ich spores out of the tank from the first go around. you'll want to gravel vacuum extremely well to get as many of the spores out as possible, and keep the temperatures up for about two weeks. i prefer to turn the temperature up instead of using meds or salt baths because it's much easier on the fish, sometimes using medications can do more harm than good.

    now, if the spot looks fuzzy and not like a grain of salt, then i'd say it's probably a fungus and NOT ich, in which case you won't want to turn up the heater because that will just increase the spread of the fungus. could you get a picture of the spot?
     


  4. OP
    OP
    F

    Fancyfish New Member Member

    Hi Alex:

    I am not certain if it is Ick or a bit of fungus- the spot on his upper caudal fin looks like it might be the beginning of a patch of fungus, but I can't catch him at rest to take a good look at it. He has a small white speck on the edge of his pectoral fin which almost looks like it could be fuzzy (?) but it is really small and again, I can't tell. His tank mate is black and it is much easier to see spots on him but so far he is fine. Both fish look like their gills are quite red, and I am not sure why as I monitor the ammonia and other parameters very closely and also do daily water changes.

    I've read that a nice light salt bath is beneficial but would it actually help neutralize a fungal infection? I know it won't do much for Ick.
    I really don't want to heat up the water if it causes a fungus to grow.

    This poor fish has gone through so much that I am trying to just keep him stress-free until he can heal up a bit. Right now the 2 fish are in what is labelled as a 20 gallon tank (but when I measured it, it only holds 14 gallons of water!!). I just purchased a 36 gallon tank for them and am planning to let the tank cycle before switching them to their new home- I want them to be happy and healthy.
     
  5. agabr123

    agabr123 Fishlore VIP Member

    if it's fungal you can use maracyn to treat it (plain maracyn, not maracyn two or TC), it's pretty safe as far as medications go, i've never had any problems and it works well.

    it says in your info that you're using the paper strips to test the water, i'd look into getting the liquid tests because unfortunately the paper ones are extremely inaccurate. i've noticed a measurable difference between the two and now the API freshwater master kit is what i use and it's the only one i recommend.

    what is waste control that's in your info?

    also, i would definitely stop using nutrafin cycle. unfortunately it contains the wrong kind of bacteria for your tank (it's not aquatic) and will die, forcing you to add cycle weekly or bi-weekly for the entire life of your tank. if you do stop using it, make sure that you keep up the daily water changes because you will have fish in the tank while it cycles naturally. great job on letting the 36 cycle naturally :)

    what kind of filtration do you have? goldfish are MESSY and even keeping two in a 36 gallon tank will require lots and lots of maintenance and probably daily water changes or every other day to keep your nitrAtes down.
     
  6. OP
    OP
    F

    Fancyfish New Member Member

    Ah, there- I just updated my info page... To my extreme frustration, the only kind of bacterial products that Canadian stores carry are the ones everyone has been telling me NOT to use. Every fish store I have been to directs me toward Stability or Cycle and they tell me that all bacterial products are the same.. I'm finding that I am often more informed about products and fish conditions than store staff thanks to these forums!!

    I did order some Tetra Safe Start which I am hoping will make it across the border without mishap (I don't think it is actually legal to ship bacteria from the US to Canada??) but once I have it I will be able to add it to the 36 gallon to help the cycling process.

    I don't mind cleaning the tank on a regular basis- I already do daily changes to keep ammonia down so I have a routine going. The goldies have so much personality that it is worth it. They really are cute little fellows!

    A note to Alex: the speck that I could see on the very edge pectoral fin is gone today- so it was either an Ick that dropped off (o, I hope not!!) or maybe it was a small piece of fungus? The grayish spot on his upper caudal fin looks a little bit larger today but I don't see any others and I still can't get a good look at it.

    Inigo has been undergoing some pretty radical colour changes since his incident with choking on a gravel so it could just be a small spot changing: the only reason I mentioned it is that when the tank initially became infected with Ick the very first sign was a grayish spot that turned into a cottony spot- then I started noticing Ick specks. Perhaps the fish had Ick AND a bit of fungus and he still has the fungus?

    The only thing of note is that he also has a very fine thread-like thing hanging off of the dorsal fin: I can only see one and at first I did think it was a fine hair that had somehow gotten stuck on his fin.

    I don't want to be paranoid and treat for things the poor fish does not need to be treated for, but if he does have a parasite or fungal infection I obviously want to catch it as early as I can. I have not been adding any salt to the last two water changes just incase I have to use meds. On hand, I now have Melafix (which I understand doesn't work at all), TC Tetracycline, Jungle parasite clear, Mardel Maracyn and a couple of Ick remedies. I haven't raised the water temperature yet, either, because you mentioned that it would cause a fungus to spread quickly- I'm still not sure how or even if to proeed. I am going to do a water change and start reducing the substrate again just to help keep the water clean.. I'm not really pleased to see the thread-like thing.

    I attempted some pictures but they don't show anything- Inigo is feeling much better lately and quite active (and apparently quite camera shy because he turns away every time I try to get a nice video of him).
     


  7. Shawnie

    Shawnie Fishlore Legend Member

    were you able to test the water yet? as recommended in your other thread, the tank being so new could play an effect on everything...the cycling with fish, is hard and we seem to watch them much closer when that happens...his spot could be just part of him or he banged himself on something....id totally concentrate on getting the tank cycled first...as far as the thread thing, do you have any silk decorations or softer type plants that arent real? do you have any pets that have long hair? all of which can get into the tank and stuck on their fins....

    keep up your daily water changes and keep an eye on the cycle process....thats going to do wonders for them all :)
     
  8. OP
    OP
    F

    Fancyfish New Member Member

    Hi Shawnie:

    No, I don't have anything in the tank that resembles the thread that is stuck to his dorsal fin and I don't have any other pets- it looks like a thin, clear thread and it is definately firmly anchored to his fin- but as I said there is only one. Perhaps it is a tiny shred of his fin that somehow tore away.

    I test the water daily with an API Master test kit and the parameters seem to be fine: 0 ammonia, 0 nitrates, 0 nitrites and between 7 and 7.2 pH. I have an in-tank ammonia monitor that is currently showing up to .05 ppm: I do notice the fish come to the surface often and I always do a water change or even 2 if I see that they are surfacing more than normal. I have a bubble wall and a bubble stone in my tank so oxygen shouldn't be a problem. Both fish look like the inside of their gills are quite red but I think this is the ammonia? I treat the water with Prime and have a zeolite filter to help with ammonia levels but maybe there is still some present that is acting as an irritant.

    I guess I'll just keep a close eye on the thread-y thing and the patch on his tail to make sure it doesn't spread..
     
  9. Meenu

    Meenu Fishlore VIP Member

    Do you have real plants processing your nitrates, or is your tank not cycled?
     
  10. OP
    OP
    F

    Fancyfish New Member Member

    No, I don't have any plants, either. The tank is definately not cycled yet.

    I reported earlier that the white speck was gone off of Inigo's pectoral fin- it is actually still there. It is small but looks kind of cottony. I'll check again tomorrow morning to see if it has spread. I may give him a nice salted bath tomorrow.
     
  11. agabr123

    agabr123 Fishlore VIP Member

    what temperature is your tank at? since goldies are coldwater fish an increase in temperature means less oxygen, which could be part of the reason why the gills are red. hopefully gremlin, the goldie expert, will chime in soon and may have some more insight for you as far as the best treatments to use.
     
  12. OP
    OP
    F

    Fancyfish New Member Member

    Hi there- my tank is at 72 degrees as Fancies like the water a little warmer than other goldies. I do actually have quite a lot of aeration in the water but the fish are often at the top even so.. I think it is new tank syndrome.

    I looked for the thread-like thing and the cottony spot today and both are gone. I did a 50% water change and will do a nice salty bath for both fish tomorrow- it certainly can't hurt. They are very active and eating well which is great! I eagerly await Tetra Safe Start!!
     
  13. agabr123

    agabr123 Fishlore VIP Member

    good luck! :) sounds like the water change helped which leads me to believe that you've got some ammonia or nitrite in your water so keep up with daily water changes and prime and you should see improvements. goldfish are MESSY and require more filtration and consistent water changes than many other fish.
     
  14. Shawnie

    Shawnie Fishlore Legend Member

    I dont think its from the temps....I would keep going with your daily water changes and the prime until you get your TSS ........the tank is big enough and maybe the red gills were the ammoina building up prior to you doing the water changes....I wouldnt do a salt bath as that could stress them even more...its more of an old school way....just the daily changes and prime will do wonders for them.....
     
  15. OP
    OP
    F

    Fancyfish New Member Member

    Thanks for the advce- I will continue with the daily water changes. I sure wish the fish stores gave out better advice!!!
     
  16. OP
    OP
    F

    Fancyfish New Member Member

    Hello again:

    I have been watching the speck on Inigo's pectoral fin- it was there then seemed to be gone but yesterday I noticed that a section of his fin where I saw the spot is missing: whatever it was ate away his fin in that area! Now there is a new white spot beside it.

    The spot is right on the perimeter of his fin- same as the last one. The tank is very well aerated and I do 30 to 40% water changes daily.. I think this may have been brought about by stress. The little fish is fine- no sign of any spots. I don't think this is Ick.

    Again- I don't want to treat with any kind of chemical if I can beat this with salt or something natural. Any suggestions? I can't tell if it is a fungus or a bacterial infection like fin rot.. so I don't want to treat for the wrong thing. Would aquarium salt help at this early stage?
     
  17. Shawnie

    Shawnie Fishlore Legend Member

    the prime and your daily changes as mentioned above, are best for right now...and it is very stressful on fish with the cycle process(allot of us have been through this :( ) ...salt is more of an old school method and just stresses the fish more and makes them overproduce slime coat as mentioned above.......how much longer for your tss do you know? maybe you can find some stress coat+ and add fresh garlic juice to their food..that will help them allot also and is much more natural ...
     
  18. OP
    OP
    F

    Fancyfish New Member Member

    I just bought some garlic juice and have started soaking their food in it- I'll continue with this and keep an eye on the spot. The last one took quite a large piece with it I was worried- I only see the oneother spot, though.

    Thanks!