I need help, ASAP!

  1. MysticWaters Initiate Member

    So I just got back from being a week away from home. Before I had a small Ich problemwith my cories, so I had medicated the tank with kordon ich attack. My LFS had said this would be the best thing to use with my cories. I have just gotten back and one of my cories has died, but that is not the problem, my opaline gourmani is extremly pale in color and seems to have a few small fluffy green spots. He also has frayed fins and what looks like bruises on his body, his pectoral fins are red at their base too. I need help ASAP! My aquarium is a 36 gallon bow front, is lightly planted, has 3 platies (F), 8 Danios, 3 Cories, and 2 mystery snails. The water was a little cloudy because I took out my Carbon filter before medication. I can't list the water parameters as of right now because I have just done a huge water change in hopes of helping. I'll get some pictures soon, please help! ( I posted this here because I am new to owning a gourmani )
    P.S. The Opaline gourmani is about five inches in length, is "panting", hiding, and seems to have trouble swimming straight.
     
  2. mg13 Well Known Member Member

    Quarantine...

    that's the first thing I can think of.
     

  3. MysticWaters Initiate Member

    UPDATE I may sound crazy but I think that these patches are moving on him because now both are on top of his head
     
  4. MysticWaters Initiate Member

    Here's a picture ImageUploadedByFish Lore Aquarium Fish Forum1405713602.632643.jpg ImageUploadedByFish Lore Aquarium Fish Forum1405713617.657133.jpg this first one is of his fins the second is the two spots on the very top of his head, sorry for bad picture quality


    Hi! I'm new!
     

  5. Coradee Moderator Moderator Member

    That looks like it could be septicaemia poeticinjustices has been dealing with one of her fish with it & could advise what meds have worked well.
     
  6. MysticWaters Initiate Member

    After looking around the internet It seems that I may have fish lice, Can anyone tell if I do? What should I treat it with?
     
  7. MysticWaters Initiate Member

    ignore the last post, I had ment to post it before. I'll be sure to go and ask, thanks for the help!
     

  8. poeticinjustices Well Known Member Member

    Hi there. I'm sorry for your fish's illness and the lost cory.

    The green spots - I know nothing about fish lice. But it does seem to fit the photos I quickly googled. Still, I wouldn't go off of just my say-so as I know very little about it.

    As for septicemia, I've recently acquired a lot of information and I am going to share ALL of it with you. Bear with me, please. You're in for a long post, I just want you to get the same information I was given.

    I will say that, with septicemia, one of my two infected fish showed symptoms in the joints of the pectoral fins first. The other developed a very large, very bloody patch on her belly quickly followed by fins just filled with blood and popeye. Very, very serious. As of this moment, things are looking way up. I spoke with two aquatic vets, the breeder of my fish and just about everyone I could about the symptoms. My course of treatment is Kanaplex both in the water column and fed in Repashy gel food bound with SeaChem Focus. So far, I'm seeing improvement.

    Length of treatment is 10-14 days. When the fish show 48 hours with no symptoms, that determines which end of the 10-14 day range. If, by day 10, they are cleared of symptoms for at least 2 days, treatment is safe to stop. It was also recommended to salinate the tank and keep the water warm (but that may just have been because fancy goldfish are less stressed in warmer water). Looking back, I would have chosen epsom salts over aquarium salt for fluid regulation. Popeye is an early indication of dropsy and epsom salts draw out fluids whereas aquarium salt, I've been informed by Rivieraneo, retain them.

    Kanamycin, regardless of what it says on the container, WILL affect your filter bed. If it doesn't, it's my opinion that it might not be working at full efficacy. What is the pH in your tank? Kanamycin is best used at pH values at least above 7. This is a guorami right? They like softer water, if I recall? If your pH is lower, I think tetracycline is broad-spectrum for low pH (turn off tank lights during treatment, it will break down in the presence of light)- someone please confirm all that about tetracycline- and you may also want to research Triple Sulfa drugs. Septicemia is commonly caused by aeromonas (but not always) which is a gram negative bacteria. Oxonolic acid powder is a very powerful gram negative antibiotic but hard to come by. The other option is to use medicated food only but at triple the strength, which is only something I have read about, not confirmed. In fact, as septicemia is internal, medicated food is the preferred delivery method if the fish will eat. Not all antibiotics are to be used in this way, Kanamycin is the only one I know for certain to be used in this manner. I also added a drop or two of Garlic Guard to all food.

    The photos do look somewhat like septicemia. And it can occur secondarily. Fish lice create an open wound, I believe feed on the blood, thereby reducing your fish's immune system and introducing bacteria into the bloodstream. Hence, septicemia. But it's possible it's also just bleeding created by the lice? I honestly do not know. I've given you the information I have, now I'm going to let you know where I'm stuck. If, in fact, you have fish lice, I'm not entirely sure what to treat first. In fact, I don't actually know how to treat fish lice. I read about dabbing with an anti-parasitic (maybe Prazipro?) or potassium permanganate and removing them with tweezers.

    What you treat first is a medical decision. I don't feel strong enough in my abilities to make a recommendation there, all I can do is provide the information and resources I am currently utilizing. Do check those water parameters as we all know that water quality lies at the heart of most, if not all, infections. If you do treat in the water column, be prepared for the outcome. SeaChem is just...wrong. It does affect the biofilter. Large water changes between doses to control ammonia buildup.

    Aquavetmed.info is a portal I used to find local aquatic vets to help me make a decision. With it, I was able to contact an aquatic vet who, sadly, was very far away, but gave me precious information listed above - he was the one who told me about the salt, warmer water (75-80F) and to use a broad-spectrum antibiotic. I also used JustAnswer (paid service) to speak with a vet named Dr. B about the septicemia. I don't for a moment regret having done this. The advice given was sound and, although they are not clear yet, they are better by leaps and bounds.

    Best of luck!
     
  9. MysticWaters Initiate Member

    Thanks for helping me, I think I have a better idea of what had happened now. I have some bad news though, I just had a fish funeral D: Monty (the opaline gourmani) died about an hour ago, I dont think that he would have lived through treatment. When I got him out of my aquarium I noticed that the two green scurrying splotches were gone. I dont see them on my other fish as of yet and they all seem healthy so far. I have been treating them for ich and it has disapeared, I keep to the instructions and keep medicationg though! This is my first encounter with septicemia, I am planning to get some jungle anchors away because I heard that it will get rid of the lice. I am certain that is what they are. Any thoughts on my plan? I think that by treating the lice first that the septicemia will go away. ( short story ) I named the opaline gourmani Monty.....because he looked like a python ( he was awesome while I had him!) And im planning on looking on the bright side of life while treating my other fish :D ( Im sorry but I just couldn't resist telling the story of his name, or that pun please excuse my ranting )
     
  10. poeticinjustices Well Known Member Member

    Oh I'm sorry you lost him :( And it's a great story. You have a good outlook - my fish got sick and I immediately go into drama-mode. My pets are my weakness, they turn me into a person I am not under other stress conditions haha.

    If you've started an ich treatment then, yes, by all means finish it. With your gourami, I would have QT'd and treated his issues separately. I would keep a very close eye on those other fish though.

    I don't necessarily know that septicemia would have gone away following treatment of the fish lice, though it was the underlying causative agent probably. It's possible, I'm just not sure. Once a bacterial infection of the bloodstream takes hold, it's there till you get rid of it I would think. All blood flows through the heart and is pumped across the entire body. I could be wrong though, your fish's symptoms didn't seem to be very severe. My fish got very sick, very fast. It is also my first encounter with septicemia and, hopefully, my last which will end in a 100% survival outcome. Hopefully.

    I am again sorry you lost Monty and your other fish are in my thoughts that they don't show any symptoms and continue to improve. I know very little about the life cycle of fish lice, but I might do some serious gravel vacuuming anyway. Good luck!
     

  11. MysticWaters Initiate Member

    Thanks poetic, I dont see any lice on my other fish yet, but I think that the two suckers are hiding D:< I did some research and fish lice seems to be similar to ich (in my opinion), it seems you can only treat it while in its juvenile stage because the medicine needed to kill the adults would harm and/or kill the fish. Im still trying to find a form of treatment, whish me luck!
     
  12. MysticWaters Initiate Member

    Now I have no doubt in my mind that this is fish lice. I just saw the little thing up close as it latched onto another fish. ImageUploadedByFish Lore Aquarium Fish Forum1405779496.885784.jpg the big green splotch is the louse. Does anyone have experience treating this? I would be happier If someone could recommend a medicine for me to use, thanks!


    Hi! I'm new!
     
  13. Lucy Moderator Moderator Member

    Eeek! Had to look that up.
    Nasty little things!

    I'm sorry your fish aren't well.

    First let me say I know don't have first hand knowledge of treating fish lice so take this info with that in mind.

    Looked it up in Manual of Fish health book and it recommends potassium permanganate (30 minute bath using 10-20mg per liter of water)

    It is also a popular plant dip to rid any new plants of nasties before putting them in tanks.

    Perhaps what the other posters are seeing as septicemia (red blotches) are the lice bites.
    Areas are red from where it feeds (according to the book)

    Here is some more in depth reading and advice about using Potassium permanganate against fish lice.
    http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa184

    Good luck!
    Hopefully others will chime in with some first hand experience.
     
  14. MysticWaters Initiate Member

    I got some medicine and I am treating them wish me luck! :)
     
  15. Lucy Moderator Moderator Member

    Good luck and keep us posted!
     
  16. MysticWaters Initiate Member

    okay, the medicine says that it lasts for 1 month. As of know I only know where one of the lice are, on my poor platy D: hopefully the little pest died! I have been on another one of my fish but it seems to a have disappeared.
     
  17. MysticWaters Initiate Member

    It looks like everything went well, the two lice that I had seen are gone, hopfully dead, I will give updates as needed.