I Might Give Up On Keeping Plants Because Nothing Seems To Help..

Hello everyone,

I've been battling this issue for over 2 years now and I'm losing. It seems like nothing I've done seems to help. It's very frustrating to see everyone is doing well while I'm strugging.

I have a 55gal tank with a few plants. They grow normally and shoot beautiful green leaves, but as soon as they grow they turn brown, curl down and die, especially the water sprite. They keep producing new leaves, but after a few days they get covered in a brown ugly stuff. Looks like diatoms, but I'm not sure. I attached pictures and wrote the symptom on them so you'll diagnose it better.

I DO dose fert and excel. I use eco complete as substrate. Finnex 24/7 light. 2 canister filters.

Possible causes: I used to think high GH, pH and silicate are the contributions to the issue. But I could be wrong. Look at my water parameters:

- pH: 7.6. --> recently lowered with peat granules driftwoods

- GH: 10 dGH (10 drops) --> that means I have no short of Calcium and Magnesium. That means Ca and Mg deficiencies ruled out

- KH: 5 dKH

- TDS on tap: 500ppm

- TDS on tank: 400ppm (with 1:1 RO/tap ratio)

- Phosphates: 0 - 0.5ppm

- Nitrite, ammonia: 0

- Nitrate: 20ppm --> nitrogen deficiency ruled oht

- Fert: Flourish dosing twice a week; excel daily; iron twice a week; potassium twice a week; root tabs below plants

- Light intensity: 2 fixtures; 5 - 7 hours On;_Tank is 20in high.

Conclusion:
- Ca & Mg ? I don't think so
- phosphates: could be, since the test came out zero, but I feed my fish everyday
- nitrogen? No way, since my nitrate always comes out above 10ppm
- potassium? Maybe not, no holes in leaves and I dose K frequently
- silicate in water causing diatoms and it affects my plants?

 

I'm just starting out myself...but I'm gonna tag Vishaquatics (Koiman) and Demeter because I bet they can help get you fixed up. Also following so I can learn stuff

 

Notes: it's very possible the cause is my water quality. It's liquid rock so it might affect my plants. I was thinking about using 100% RO but it would be very expensive since I'll have lots of waste water down the drain.

I'm just starting out myself...but I'm gonna tag Vishaquatics (Koiman) and Demeter because I bet they can help get you fixed up. Also following so I can learn stuff

Thank you that would be great if you know more experts please tag them here too.

 

I am far from an expert on plants ( I have my own issues ) but from what others here have told me,
I only use excel once a week, Potassium 3x a week, Iron 3x a week, Flourish once a week and Niloc Thrive+ 5 pumps 2x a week.
My plants started doing better since. 55 gallon with Eco Completes Substrate and a plant spectrum LED light for plants

 

Following this thread because a lot of my plants look like yours Just so you know....you are not going through this learning curve alone.

 

I may have skimmed over it, but what kind of lighting is it? You water checks out to me, so if it’s not the water/nutrients then it’s usually the lighting.

I’m more of a trial and error person than a numbers person. I simply find plants that do well in my tanks rather than try to make plants work for me. Your java fern and crypts seem alright to me, is it mostly the stem plants and swords that have problems? What plants are doing well so far?

 

I’m by no stretch an expert on plants but my set up is different as I used basic pool filter sand ( started wit gravel and didn’t like the looks) I used to dose all kinds of things and my plants would grow die grow die . I changed my routine to dosing just nilog thrive and it was a world of difference honestly. I don’t do co2 .. I still on occasion dose some excel potassium and iron and still use root tabs in random places such as around my swords.. sometimes less is more. I also use a finnex 24/7 and leave it on full sunlight for 8 hours . Your dual lights could be melting them as well . For the record mine is also a 55. It took me a year to get the right balance . But like I said sometimes less is more try doing strictly thrive for a couple weeks with 50% weekly WC’s and see how that works for you. Good luck hope this helps a little

 

Looks like phosphates and magnesium.

Your gh doesn't mean what you think it means. It measures all of it combined. You may have 0 magnesium.

Your sword needs root tabs. I like the seachem ones.

You don't need ro. Silicates suck though. I run a phosphate remover for 2 days after water changes, then remove it so I can dose phosphates. This is how I remove silicates and stop my brown algae.

Idle curiosity not associated with anything, but do you have green spot algae?

 

I may have skimmed over it, but what kind of lighting is it? You water checks out to me, so if it’s not the water/nutrients then it’s usually the lighting.

I’m more of a trial and error person than a numbers person. I simply find plants that do well in my tanks rather than try to make plants work for me. Your java fern and crypts seem alright to me, is it mostly the stem plants and swords that have problems? What plants are doing well so far?

My lights are:
- Beamswork 6500k
- Finnex 24/7 planted+
* I usually switch between them or use them both on max. Yeah if that's the light issue then it would be more relieving than those nutrient issues.

Finding the right plants that do well seems to be a smart choice, but I've seen plenty of people in my area (mostly LFS) have different kind of plants so I thought "why can't I" ?

I’m by no stretch an expert on plants but my set up is different as I used basic pool filter sand ( started wit gravel and didn’t like the looks) I used to dose all kinds of things and my plants would grow die grow die . I changed my routine to dosing just nilog thrive and it was a world of difference honestly. I don’t do co2 .. I still on occasion dose some excel potassium and iron and still use root tabs in random places such as around my swords.. sometimes less is more. I also use a finnex 24/7 and leave it on full sunlight for 8 hours . Your dual lights could be melting them as well . For the record mine is also a 55. It took me a year to get the right balance . But like I said sometimes less is more try doing strictly thrive for a couple weeks with 50% weekly WC’s and see how that works for you. Good luck hope this helps a little

Thank you. I also used Thrive in the past but in my case it didn't do anything different, unfortunately. I'm glad it turned out great for you but mine, not so much

Looks like phosphates and magnesium.

Your gh doesn't mean what you think it means. It measures all of it combined. You may have 0 magnesium.

Your sword needs root tabs. I like the seachem ones.

You don't need ro. Silicates suck though. I run a phosphate remover for 2 days after water changes, then remove it so I can dose phosphates. This is how I remove silicates and stop my brown algae.

Idle curiosity not associated with anything, but do you have green spot algae?

This is a great reply. Thanks.

If you're correct about not needing RO then I'm happy. What fert/source of Mg should I dose?

Yes I do have green spot algae on the glass (it isn't severe so I didn't mention earlier) but yes they exist. I recently started dosing Phosphorus though.

As for the crypts I do put root tabs close to their roots, not sure why it still didn't help...

 

My lights are:
- Beamswork 6500k
- Finnex 24/7 planted+

Finding the right plants that do well seems to be a smart choice, but I've seen plenty of people in my area (mostly LFS) have different kind of plants so I thought "why can't I"?

I'll tell you every tank is different. I can't explain it, but I have had exact tanks with exact bioload and not every plant that flourished in one flourishes in another. I roll with whatever wants to grow now instead of trying to said plant to grow. A dwindling plant isn't using up much nutrients, while algae takes over.

Btw, your crypt look good! Just let it grow in. Your Amazon sword needs a root tab too though. It honestly just looks to me that your plants are transitioning to grow in your tank, maybe transitioning to more nutrients, especially the old leaves to new leaves pics. If the last is ludwigia or reneiki, just let it grow in more. Looks like nice buds to me. The java fern is a super slow grower and I just remove leaves that look ugly. Nice new leaves pop up in it's place.

Actually I looked at the pics again, is this new growth very close to the water surface? Could it be emersed growth?

 

Following this thread because a lot of my plants look like yours Just so you know....you are not going through this learning curve alone.

Yeah I'm glad I'm not alone here. I hope you will do well too.

 

This is a great reply. Thanks.

If you're correct about not needing RO then I'm happy. What fert/source of Mg should I dose?

Yes I do have green spot algae on the glass (it isn't severe so I didn't mention earlier) but yes they exist. I recently started dosing Phosphorus though.

As for the crypts I do put root tabs close to their roots, not sure why it still didn't help...

Personally, while I love seachem, I hate their liquid fertilizers. I would just bite the bullet and get an all in one. If you are in the states, thrive seems to do well.

You can also just pick up an all in one for micros. Most manufacturers keep them separate because iron doesn't play well with macros.

Your crypts will feed from the water column, but they are slower in low tech tanks. I thought you had a sword though. While they look similar sometimes, they differ. Crypts don't really care how they get nutrients. Swords pretty much seem to demand it from the roots and in massive quantities. Mine can't consume it fast enough and end up damaging leaves when they grow spikes despite everything I do.

I dry dose. I can customize what I need to, especially phosphates since they seem to always be low for me. It also allows me to not add nitrates because, well I have a ton of fish. Custom dosing spoons are under 10 bucks I believe and make this process stupid simple.

 

I'll tell you every tank is different. I can't explain it, but I have had exact tanks with exact bioload and not every plant that flourished in one flourishes in another. I roll with whatever wants to grow now instead of trying to said plant to grow. A dwindling plant isn't using up much nutrients, while algae takes over.

Btw, your crypt look good! Just let it grow in. Your Amazon sword needs a root tab too though

It's funnt because I put TWO tabs under the sword and it's been 3 months it hasn't grown anything, only gets worse...

Personally, while I love seachem, I hate their liquid fertilizers. I would just bite the bullet and get an all in one. If you are in the states, thrive seems to do well.

You can also just pick up an all in one for micros. Most manufacturers keep them separate because iron doesn't play well with macros.

Your crypts will feed from the water column, but they are slower in low tech tanks. I thought you had a sword though. While they look similar sometimes, they differ. Crypts don't really care how they get nutrients. Swords pretty much seem to demand it from the roots and in massive quantities. Mine can't consume it fast enough and end up damaging leaves when they grow spikes despite everything I do.

I dry dose. I can customize what I need to, especially phosphates since they seem to always be low for me. It also allows me to not add nitrates because, well I have a ton of fish. Custom dosing spoons are under 10 bucks I believe and make this process stupid simple.

Thank you very much. I checked your "All in One" link and it led me to a water conditioner product?

Don't you think It's weird we have a ton of fish but always get low on Phosphates? I thought I had plenty of P until I did a test. It came out almost zero.

 

Phosphate tests are not accurate apparently, I've been warned already. Is the sword planted in a shady area?

 

Thank you very much. I checked your "All in One" link and it led me to a water conditioner product?

Don't you think It's weird we have a ton of fish but always get low on Phosphates? I thought I had plenty of P until I did a test. It came out almost zero.

I didn't make that link. It's automatic and just an ad revenue stream for the site.

Your test kit only tests for organic phosphate and even then, not very accurately. I think with food getting so good nowadays, there is very little the fish don't utilize. Even supposed "fillers", they have their place. That's a tailspin for a different day though.

 

Hey Steven, I completely feel your frustration. A few years ago I tried so hard to get my planted tank going but I never stopped having problems. Tried everything.. Different ferts, DIY CO2, playing with the lighting... Nothing seemed to work and I eventually just gave up and completely took my tank down. I was really discouraged and disappointed..

I just bought a small fish tank and decided to slowly ease myself back into the world of planted aquariums. Its only been a week and I have already opened more posts on this forum than I can count and have serious fish/plant anxiety lol One thing that has changed since then is that I have a small vegetable garden in the back of my house. My neighbor has the most beautiful garden ever and when I asked her for some advice, the only thing that she said was "I only grow what wants to be grown here. If it doesn't wanna be here, I don't want it here". This really stuck with me and is so true! I apply that to my herb garden at home and it has saved me a ton of headaches. In retrospect, when I tried to set up a planted tank last time, I was fixed on keeping plants that weren't appropriate for my setup. I'm keeping it much more simple this time and hoping I have some luck. Following this post because I want to learn some stuff too, but please don't get discouraged!

Really hope someone here can help you out. Good luck and keep us posted!

I’m by no stretch an expert on plants but my set up is different as I used basic pool filter sand ( started wit gravel and didn’t like the looks) I used to dose all kinds of things and my plants would grow die grow die . I changed my routine to dosing just nilog thrive and it was a world of difference honestly. I don’t do co2 .. I still on occasion dose some excel potassium and iron and still use root tabs in random places such as around my swords.. sometimes less is more. I also use a finnex 24/7 and leave it on full sunlight for 8 hours . Your dual lights could be melting them as well . For the record mine is also a 55. It took me a year to get the right balance . But like I said sometimes less is more try doing strictly thrive for a couple weeks with 50% weekly WC’s and see how that works for you. Good luck hope this helps a little

NICE PLANTS!! Everything looks so green and healthy!

 

You may actually want to set up a separate smaller tank to get the hang of it first. 55 gallons are large and harder to light because of the height, and beamswork is on the lower end of intensity/light quality already. With a smaller tank you will pay less for substrate, ferts, plants and whatever else you may want.

 

So it appears that there's a lot of diatoms (brown stuff covering the plant leaves). Just to confirm, do they wipe off easily?

Personally, I don't believe there isn't a plant anyone can't grow. 10 dGH is a very good dGH for growing plants (mine is personally 13 dGH and I have yet to find a plant that won't grow for me). 80% of aquatic plants available in the commercial market can be grown easily in almost any water condition and without CO2 (but still needs ample nutrients).

As for the lighting, is it on a timer and what is the photoperiod?

One thing jumped out at me here: 0ppm PO4.

PO4, a macro nutrient consumed in large quantities, is likely the limiting factor here. Feeding fish and PO4 derived from that is almost never enough. However, this doesn't mean that your PO4 is the magic bullet here.

Planted tanks as a whole thrive on stability. So here's a general guideline that you can follow if interested which I've had work for many clients of mine:

1) Set lights on a timer. 3 hours on, 3 hours off, 4 hours on. This split photoperiod discourages algae growth.

2) I'd recommend getting dry ferts from nilocg. Their EI dosing package + GH Booster is great

Fert Schedule:

Sunday: 10ppm NO3, 1dGH GH Booster, 2.5ppm PO4
(Whatever K comes from the GH booster, KNO3, and KH2PO4 is sufficient)

Wednesday: 0.3ppm Fe from CSM+B

Saturday: 50% water change (mandatory)

Use this link to know the exact teaspoon amounts to dose:

3) Get more plants. Planted tanks with a large plant biomass generally do better. I'd recommend getting some anacharis and wisteria. Many people sell this stuff and while I currently am not shipping, there are many people on this forum that will gladly sell you an entire tank full worth of the stuff. The more plants a tank has, the more stable the overall system will be and will be able to fight off algae given that there are sufficient nutrients and stable conditions

 

Hey Steven, I completely feel your frustration. A few years ago I tried so hard to get my planted tank going but I never stopped having problems. Tried everything.. Different ferts, DIY CO2, playing with the lighting... Nothing seemed to work and I eventually just gave up and completely took my tank down. I was really discouraged and disappointed..

I just bought a small fish tank and decided to slowly ease myself back into the world of planted aquariums. Its only been a week and I have already opened more posts on this forum than I can count and have serious fish/plant anxiety lol One thing that has changed since then is that I have a small vegetable garden in the back of my house. My neighbor has the most beautiful garden ever and when I asked her for some advice, the only thing that she said was "I only grow what wants to be grown here. If it doesn't wanna be here, I don't want it here". This really stuck with me and is so true! I apply that to my herb garden at home and it has saved me a ton of headaches. In retrospect, when I tried to set up a planted tank last time, I was fixed on keeping plants that weren't appropriate for my setup. I'm keeping it much more simple this time and hoping I have some luck. Following this post because I want to learn some stuff too, but please don't get discouraged!

Really hope someone here can help you out. Good luck and keep us posted!



NICE PLANTS!! Everything looks so green and healthy!

Good luck on your second journey! You can do it

I agree with what you said that "we should grow what can grow in our tank", but as we know the majority of aquatic plants can do well that means we're able to grow them, we just need to learn more, and that's what I'm trying to accomplish, if you know what I mean. But I completely understand your situation and that's totally fine

You may actually want to set up a separate smaller tank to get the hang of it first. 55 gallons are large and harder to light because of the height, and beamswork is on the lower end of intensity/light quality already. With a smaller tank you will pay less for substrate, ferts, plants and whatever else you may want.

I actually just got a 5gal a week ago! This tank is a 100% RO (with Equilibirum of course), because I was worried the tap water is the big issue on my big tank. But as Vishaquatics said we can grow 80% of plants, that made me think otherwise... But Idk we'll see...

So it appears that there's a lot of diatoms (brown stuff covering the plant leaves). Just to confirm, do they wipe off easily?

Personally, I don't believe there isn't a plant anyone can't grow. 10 dGH is a very good dGH for growing plants (mine is personally 13 dGH and I have yet to find a plant that won't grow for me). 80% of aquatic plants available in the commercial market can be grown easily in almost any water condition and without CO2 (but still needs ample nutrients).

As for the lighting, is it on a timer and what is the photoperiod?

One thing jumped out at me here: 0ppm PO4.

PO4, a macro nutrient consumed in large quantities, is likely the limiting factor here. Feeding fish and PO4 derived from that is almost never enough. However, this doesn't mean that your PO4 is the magic bullet here.

Planted tanks as a whole thrive on stability. So here's a general guideline that you can follow if interested which I've had work for many clients of mine:

1) Set lights on a timer. 3 hours on, 3 hours off, 4 hours on. This split photoperiod discourages algae growth.

2) I'd recommend getting dry ferts from nilocg. Their EI dosing package + GH Booster is great

Fert Schedule:

Sunday: 10ppm NO3, 1dGH GH Booster, 2.5ppm PO4
(Whatever K comes from the GH booster, KNO3, and KH2PO4 is sufficient)

Wednesday: 0.3ppm Fe from CSM+B

Saturday: 50% water change (mandatory)

Use this link to know the exact teaspoon amounts to dose: Rotala Butterfly | Planted Aquarium Nutrient Dosing Calculator

3) Get more plants. Planted tanks with a large plant biomass generally do better. I'd recommend getting some anacharis and wisteria. Many people sell this stuff and while I currently am not shipping, there are many people on this forum that will gladly sell you an entire tank full worth of the stuff. The more plants a tank has, the more stable the overall system will be and will be able to fight off algae given that there are sufficient nutrients and stable conditions

Thank you, I just ordered Thrive on amazon.

The brown stuff is really annoying. They always cover the old leaves. I"m not sure if that's diatoms but it affects the Water Sprite so bad, you can see that in the pics. As soon as the leaves mature they turn brown and die. Other old leaves such as anubias and java fern just curl downward and die too. This is the biggest problem I have and I don't know what causes it. Silicate? Phosphate deficiency? Magnesium deficiency?

 

If you're referring to how the java leaves appear to be wilting, I agree, it's diatoms that are weighing the leaves down. Then they block light to the leaf or suffocate it causing decay. Are they planted in a particularly shady area? How long have you had the java again?

I also struggle with diatoms in all my tanks, so i'm following to learn. But I can keep a tank free of them with regular water changes and maintenance. I gently brush off any diatoms on leaves and suck them out. Same goes for glass sides. I do a good skI'm siphon in all my planted tanks. Keep filters and tubes clean.

I also add probiotics when I remember

 

If you're referring to how the java leaves appear to be wilting, I agree, it's diatoms that are weighing the leaves down. Then they block light to the leaf or suffocate it causing decay. Are they planted in a particularly shady area? How long have you had the java again?

I also struggle with diatoms in all my tanks, so i'm following to learn. But I can keep a tank free of them with regular water changes and maintenance. I gently brush off any diatoms on leaves and suck them out. Same goes for glass sides. I do a good skI'm siphon in all my planted tanks. Keep filters and tubes clean.

I also add probiotics when I remember

Brown algae is diatoms. Unfortunately the best way to keep them out removes phosphates. They will cover a plant and basically starve them as angelcraze has stated. It's why Ionly use silicate removers for a couple of days at a time. I remove it soon after water change change day so I don't stay phosphate deficient. My otos and other fish keep it down after that to bridge the gap.

 

Brown algae is diatoms. Unfortunately the best way to keep them out removes phosphates. They will cover a plant and basically starve them as angelcraze has stated. It's why Ionly use silicate removers for a couple of days at a time. I remove it soon after water change change day so I don't stay phosphate deficient. My otos and other fish keep it down after that to bridge the gap.

Thank you, I just ordered Thrive on amazon.

The brown stuff is really annoying. They always cover the old leaves. I"m not sure if that's diatoms but it affects the Water Sprite so bad, you can see that in the pics. As soon as the leaves mature they turn brown and die. Other old leaves such as anubias and java fern just curl downward and die too. This is the biggest problem I have and I don't know what causes it. Silicate? Phosphate deficiency? Magnesium deficiency?

IME, diatoms are not caused by high phosphate levels. OP said that his PO4 levels are 0 so this wouldn't be the case either. There are also compelling anecdotes from hobbyists that silicates do not cause diatoms either. I've experienced diatoms multiple times and I've noticed that they're caused by:

1) An excessive amount of light without adequate CO2 injection
2) Immature biological media

For a lowtech tank, a split photoperiod as well as lights that were not too powerful seemed to work well. Additionally, using mature biological media is also the second part of the equation as well as ensuring proper filtration. Often, upgrading filtration with mature biological media as well as having a light that isn't too powerful or on too long will help to get rid of the diatoms.

There's absolutely no need for a phosphate or silicate remover.

As for your plants dying, it's likely a nutrient issue starting with the 0 phosphate problem. I'd recommend that you dose your tank with 6 pumps of Thrive once a week to start with a 50% water change at the end of the week.

How long has this tank been setup again?

 

IME, diatoms are not caused by high phosphate levels. OP said that his PO4 levels are 0 so this wouldn't be the case either. There are also compelling anecdotes from hobbyists that silicates do not cause diatoms either. I've experienced diatoms multiple times and I've noticed that they're caused by:

1) An excessive amount of light without adequate CO2 injection
2) Immature biological media

For a lowtech tank, a split photoperiod as well as lights that were not too powerful seemed to work well. Additionally, using mature biological media is also the second part of the equation as well as ensuring proper filtration. Often, upgrading filtration with mature biological media as well as having a light that isn't too powerful or on too long will help to get rid of the diatoms.

There's absolutely no need for a phosphate or silicate remover.

As for your plants dying, it's likely a nutrient issue starting with the 0 phosphate problem. I'd recommend that you dose your tank with 6 pumps of Thrive once a week to start with a 50% water change at the end of the week.

How long has this tank been setup again?

You misread. I said the unfortunate part is that it removes phosphates as well. Unless I am unaware of a silicate remover that doesn't also remove phosphates.

 

You misread. I said the unfortunate part is that it removes phosphates as well. Unless I am unaware of a silicate remover that doesn't also remove phosphates.

Ah yes, my bad on that. Thank you for the clarification!

I'm still not sure that silicates cause diatom algae although I see compelling cases for both sides.

 

Ah yes, my bad on that. Thank you for the clarification!

I'm still not sure that silicates cause diatom algae although I see compelling cases for both sides.

I'm not entirely convinced myself, but removers have prevented it from coming back. When I forget to use them, I get issues.

 

Wraithen Vishaquatics (Koiman)

I'm so confused now. Some people say diatoms are caused by silicate and now others claim they are caused by high phosphate? If it's the latter then why do I still have some GSA? Not trying to be mean but I'm kinda confused...

But yeah Vishaquatics (Koiman), I'll try lowering the light intensity and see how that goes. I don't think my bio media is immature because it's been there for 2+ years.

Also I'll try Phosguard as Wraithen recommended. Can I ask how we know when to remove Phosguard? You mentioned 2 days, but what if after 2 days the silicate is still in the water?

 

Wraithen Vishaquatics (Koiman)

I'm so confused now. Some people say diatoms are caused by silicate and now others claim they are caused by high phosphate? If it's the latter then why do I still have some GSA? Not trying to be mean but I'm kinda confused...

But yeah Vishaquatics (Koiman), I'll try lowering the light intensity and see how that goes. I don't think my bio media is immature because it's been there for 2+ years.

Also I'll try Phosguard as Wraithen recommended. Can I ask how we know when to remove Phosguard? You mentioned 2 days, but what if after 2 days the silicate is still in the water?

So on diatoms. The traditional thinking is they are caused by silicates. This seems to make sense for me, but it also is conflicted by one of my lfs having different water and the same issue. I don't believe a mature filter media as being involved at all, nor do I think high phosphates cause it. Especially not the phosphates our tests indicate (organic only.)

Traditional thoughts on gsa are low, or high phosphates. 5ppm is a good number and should keep gsa at bay, provided other nutrients are relatively in balance.

I personally use the phosphiltrum for 2 days. I do this to strike a balance as I have a gsa problem due to low phosphates already, so I don't want those gone. After 2 days, when I remove it, I don't have enough diatoms that my algae eating crew can't keep my plants clear. After a week I have a very light coating of it on some of my glass, but it takes a few seconds to rid the glass of it. Beyond that, and I have no noticeable diatoms. I am trying to get to monthly water changes so I am riding a more delicate balance than traditional eI techniques which involves a weekly 50 percent water change to reset fert levels.

I apologize. The two of us kind of have side conversations in topics such as these as problems come up and we voice our experience and theories. This has likely been what's led to your confusion.

I think your game plan is good. Dial in one, maybe 2 things at a time. A lot of this is like playing battleship. You zero in on a target problem with small adjustments, one thing at a time, until you hit your target. Then you move onto the next target. As you do this more and more, you get to know your situation better and can adjust 5 things at once to confidently correct issues. We say balance a lot. Most of the time, your balance will be off a bit. You trim plants so there's less mass so you have too many fertilizers, or it's been two weeks since you trimmed so you have more bio mass so you're slightly under fertilized in something. It's all about the little tweaks here and there.

 

I think it's also important to keep filters and substrate clean. Too much gunk can impede nitrifying bacteria from performing 100%. I'm saying this mostly because I have to go clean my filter right now!

Also I use Eheim prefilters on my canisters. It makes it easily to rinse it, takes 2 minutes.

 

The process of growing plants is a real balancing trick.......I have learnt this the hard way.

You need to look at the two stages of plant growth:

1. new growth - most plants will let out new growth when the water conditions are good. So your new growth implies that you water conditions are good for new growth. One of the main requirements for new growth is Nitrates - so your filtration system works well to produce nitrates from your ammonia. New growth requires minerals. and food (nitrates, CO2, light O2). There are two ways new growth gets minerals:
   1. from the water - so when you have new growth you need to do water changes, add micro elements and other minerals such as phosphates, ferrous and magnesium
   2. from existing growth - new growth will behave like a parasite for existing growth if they cannot access the required food and minerals from the water! This will cause existing growth to deteriorate. Some plants will use their roots to draw up minerals, so root tabs work, however not all plants do.
2. existing growth. Existing plants need good conditions to flourish:
   1. micro elements and other minerals such as phosphates, ferrous and magnesium. So either you feed them via the water or via root tabs if your plants can cope with them. These need to be replenished after each WC.
      
   2. good water flow - this is essential to ensure that your plants are getting enough CO2 and O2. Good water flow also ensures that there is no build up of ammonia around the plants (where water flow is hindered). When I look at your Java fern, I get the impression that your water flow is lower than required.
   3. right water temperature - this is a tricky one, as tropical fish tend to prefer higher temperatures and plants lower temperatures. You don't actually specify what the water temperature is in your tank (top of tank and bottom of tank). Can you share the temps please. If you are above 80, then you have an issue.
   4. cleaning - no mater how good an environment you set up, you will always need to clean your tank. While doing a WC, use a soft brush to remove the diatoms - which incidentally you do have a lot of, and to clean the bottom of the tank - you seem to have some sort of muck floating around the gravel. Algae eaters are good to keep leaves clean, but as for the gravel, you will really need to hoover regularly.

Looking at your pics, I would:
1. Check that water temps don't not exceed 80F
2. Rinse all the plants in tap water and brush the algae off them
3. Increase the water flow around the plants with either a power head or an air stone
4. Increase the amount of WCs you make and after the WC add micro elements and minerals i.e. Ferrous and potassium.

You should see a change within 6-8 weeks.

 

Get some jungle val and ludwiga, I used to be a plant serial killer but those two grow like weeds

 

Ludwigia is very slow growing in my 120g! It's funny, the same type grew like a weed in my 46g bowfront.

 

Ludwigia is very slow growing in my 120g! It's funny, the same type grew like a weed in my 46g bowfront.

Allelopathy?

 

The process of growing plants is a real balancing trick.......I have learnt this the hard way.

You need to look at the two stages of plant growth:

1. new growth - most plants will let out new growth when the water conditions are good. So your new growth implies that you water conditions are good for new growth. One of the main requirements for new growth is Nitrates - so your filtration system works well to produce nitrates from your ammonia. New growth requires minerals. and food (nitrates, CO2, light O2). There are two ways new growth gets minerals:
   1. from the water - so when you have new growth you need to do water changes, add micro elements and other minerals such as phosphates, ferrous and magnesium
   2. from existing growth - new growth will behave like a parasite for existing growth if they cannot access the required food and minerals from the water! This will cause existing growth to deteriorate. Some plants will use their roots to draw up minerals, so root tabs work, however not all plants do.
2. existing growth. Existing plants need good conditions to flourish:
   1. micro elements and other minerals such as phosphates, ferrous and magnesium. So either you feed them via the water or via root tabs if your plants can cope with them. These need to be replenished after each WC.
      
   2. good water flow - this is essential to ensure that your plants are getting enough CO2 and O2. Good water flow also ensures that there is no build up of ammonia around the plants (where water flow is hindered). When I look at your Java fern, I get the impression that your water flow is lower than required.
   3. right water temperature - this is a tricky one, as tropical fish tend to prefer higher temperatures and plants lower temperatures. You don't actually specify what the water temperature is in your tank (top of tank and bottom of tank). Can you share the temps please. If you are above 80, then you have an issue.
   4. cleaning - no mater how good an environment you set up, you will always need to clean your tank. While doing a WC, use a soft brush to remove the diatoms - which incidentally you do have a lot of, and to clean the bottom of the tank - you seem to have some sort of muck floating around the gravel. Algae eaters are good to keep leaves clean, but as for the gravel, you will really need to hoover regularly.

Looking at your pics, I would:
1. Check that water temps don't not exceed 80F
2. Rinse all the plants in tap water and brush the algae off them
3. Increase the water flow around the plants with either a power head or an air stone
4. Increase the amount of WCs you make and after the WC add micro elements and minerals i.e. Ferrous and potassium.

You should see a change within 6-8 weeks.

My water temp is around 80.6F. Jesus, that might ne part of the problem then. But I remember in the winter I didn't use any heater and it was around 20F, plants still struggled.

I did try using powerheads. Yes I put one that blew on top of the java fern. It still struggled to grow and it even collected much more algae (BBA). I stopped using the powerheads since then....... But now I have a HOB filter just right on top of the fern.

 

Ludwigia is very slow growing in my 120g! It's funny, the same type grew like a weed in my 46g bowfront.

That's a surprise! Because the Ludwigia grows very fast in my tank. You can see that in one of the pics.

 

Water temp is not a huge factor IME, I’ve had healthy and rapid plant growth at 87F and 60F.

How often are you doing water changes?

 

Allelopathy?

Yes I've always wondered about this. That's why I just roll with whatever wants to grow

 

Water temp is not a huge factor IME, I’ve had healthy and rapid plant growth at 87F and 60F.

How often are you doing water changes?

I'm doing 30%-50% weekly.

 

Guys, this is the rotala after only a few days. Honestly I just wanna kill all the plants -_-

 

I use no ferts in a tank. I don't know why my plants grow but here is a video of one of my old tanks I had set up. No ferts or CO2 but I did have dirt under the gravel and 2 shop lights over it and it grew plants fine. In fact my tank I have now the lights just went out and I plan on going back to the shop lights. They work for me.
Anyway here is the tank that I didn't use any ferts and just tap water in. The plants did really good, not beautiful like folks that use all the fancy stuff but hey my plants did good lol. Maybe because I had plenty of fish??? Don't really know.
My tank now is a work in progress which is why I'm showing my favorite set up I've ever had with out all the "good" stuff.

 

Of course I only stuck to plants that worked in my tank, I had some that didn't so I just didn't keep putting them in there.