I Might Give Up...is This Columnaris - Page 2

Jenoli42

Use what you’re comfortable using. All I can advise is what I know works. Kanaplex and furan 2 won’t crash your bb. Maracyn and maracyn 2 will. But, if the other fish aren’t showing signs of columnaris, I’d hold off using meds. If you could move the snails and add the salt before you leave, you may be ok. Let me say this about furan 2: Furan and Dioxin are two of the worst poisons (in their purest forms) in agriculture. That being said, Furan2 is NOT pure Furan. It is a tiny bit of a bound molecule. If every aquarium in the US dosed furan2 at the same time and dumped the “used” water in the same hole, there wouldn’t be enough furan to measure. I could go on and on but I won’t. I’m tired.

I wish you could see the photos. . 4/6 remaining Cories appear to have perfect fins & are spawning & loving life. 2/6 have fins that are ragged & even appear like the front hard fin cartilage is completely separated from the rest of that fin like the fin has disintegrated.
 

Fishlover832

I've posted multiple threads over the months and haven't gotten any complete answer. The only thing I found was that my pH was around 8.2 (the tank has cardinal tetras, sterbaI & habrosus cories, rummynose tetras, serpae tetras, otos). Because it's hot here during the summer, my tank usually stays around 80-81. If anyone has any guesses please respond anywhere I'm desperate for answers lol. I will try to upload pictures tomorrow morning and I'll also start another thread for mine. My tank is heavily planted so my nitrates are never higher than 5ppm.
 

Jenoli42

I've posted multiple threads over the months and haven't gotten any complete answer. The only thing I found was that my pH was around 8.2 (the tank has cardinal tetras, sterbaI & habrosus cories, rummynose tetras, serpae tetras, otos). Because it's hot here during the summer, my tank usually stays around 80-81. If anyone has any guesses please respond anywhere I'm desperate for answers lol. I will try to upload pictures tomorrow morning and I'll also start another thread for mine. My tank is heavily planted so my nitrates are never higher than 5ppm.
once you do a thread pls post link here or feel free to private message me with it. I will at least watch it and help if I can
 

Fishlover832

I will! Thanks for your help.
 

Gypsy13

I wish you could see the photos. . 4/6 remaining Cories appear to have perfect fins & are spawning & loving life. 2/6 have fins that are ragged & even appear like the front hard fin cartilage is completely separated from the rest of that fin like the fin has disintegrated.

If you have mblue you could give the ones with damages fins baths. You may even want to qt them before it gets worse. I’m sorry this is happening right at vacation time. Life happens. However inconvenient it may seem sometimes. I hate the sound of those two corys. I wish I could see the pics too.
 

Fishlover832

On a side note I happen to be leaving for vacation in 10 days... ugh
 

Jenoli42

If you have mblue you could give the ones with damages fins baths. You may even want to qt them before it gets worse. I’m sorry this is happening right at vacation time. Life happens. However inconvenient it may seem sometimes. I hate the sound of those two corys. I wish I could see the pics too.

I don't have mblue & don't have an available QT atm. I could possibly move the baby Odessa from our 21L to this potentially infected bowfront to free that QT up but then it might be eaten or infected.

how big should baby fish get before they join a tank?
 

Jenoli42

On a side note I happen to be leaving for vacation in 10 days... ugh
same... we leave in a week
 

Gypsy13

I don't have mblue & don't have an available QT atm. I could possibly move the baby Odessa from our 21L to this potentially infected bowfront to free that QT up but then it might be eaten or infected.

how big should baby fish get before they join a tank?

As long as there’s a place to hide for the babies and they won’t easily fit into anyone else’s mouth, they’re good. I don’t remove my fry and I’ve always got too many. I wouldn’t move the Odessa though. Too risky.
 

Jenoli42

Can I suggest a measured wait and see approach instead of giving up?
We went thru a lot of the same things together, with sterbais and rummies back in early March. From all those fish in my quarantine tank of death, all that survived are 3 rummies. They won the lottery, if u want to look at it that way. They remain healthy, now they’re in a rather understocked tank that looks nothing like what I envisioned or dreamed when I was setting the tank up. I fought hard against this outcome, but now that it’s what I have... I LOVE IT!! Less maintenance, no dying fish, no endless trips to lfs for more or new meds.
Look for the silver linings, my friend.

I never properly responded to you, my friend. I actually don't mind if we end up not having sterbaI or any Cory cats in this tank and maybe add a few golden barbs instead or leave it under stocked.

I'm most gutted that we can't order a replacement EBJD until we figure this out. and I don't want it to spread to the other species in the tank... which seem slightly low on appetite but otherwise sweet as.

thank you for trying to help. I can't believe how often I've needed fabulous people like you since getting myself schooled on this hobby. .. it's depressing ..but I'm really grateful to you.
 

Jenoli42

As long as there’s a place to hide for the babies and they won’t easily fit into anyone else’s mouth, they’re good. I don’t remove my fry and I’ve always got too many. I wouldn’t move the Odessa though. Too risky.
the only mouth it could fit in is our firemouth.... risky
 

Jenoli42

As long as there’s a place to hide for the babies and they won’t easily fit into anyone else’s mouth, they’re good. I don’t remove my fry and I’ve always got too many. I wouldn’t move the Odessa though. Too risky.

the baby is not as long as a neon/ cardinal but a bit taller if that makes sense? otherwise similar size to the size of neon they sell in fish stores...
 

Gypsy13

the only mouth it could fit in is our firemouth.... risky
the baby is not as long as a neon/ cardinal but a bit taller if that makes sense? otherwise similar size to the size of neon they sell in fish stores...

Other than the contamination risk, it would probably be ok. As long as firemouth is getting plenty to eat. Winking. Is firemouth adult?
 

Jenoli42

Other than the contamination risk, it would probably be ok. As long as firemouth is getting plenty to eat. Winking. Is firemouth adult?
no, lucI (firemouth) is a tweenie. not a baby but not a teen yet if that makes sense? if she were a person, she'd be 11-12yo.

the reason I'm not as concerned as I should be about infection is because I only moved the baby from the breeder net in this tank a week ago.

for some reason I expected baby fish to be like canaries in a coal mine - if it wasn't doing well, something must be wrong. it was fine. then our EBJD died & now a sterbai. so the baby Odessa as an early warning system theory is proven wrong I suppose....
 

Gypsy13

no, lucI (firemouth) is a tweenie. not a baby but not a teen yet if that makes sense? if she were a person, she'd be 11-12yo.

the reason I'm not as concerned as I should be about infection is because I only moved the baby from the breeder net in this tank a week ago.

for some reason I expected baby fish to be like canaries in a coal mine - if it wasn't doing well, something must be wrong. it was fine. then our EBJD died & now a sterbai. so the baby Odessa as an early warning system theory is proven wrong I suppose....

Yeah. That doesn’t work so well.
 

bitseriously

Jenoli42 I know how invested you and your family are in your dream tank. How willing are u to step back from your dream stocking and consider that maybe it won’t work?
I am an ecologist by education. I spent many happy years learning about complex ecosystems and some of the coolest are complex tropical reefs. In setting up my original first tank, my dream was to have as many species and as many different types of creatures as possible. I wanted schools/shoals of middle and bottom fish, and a centrepiece. Snails, frogs, shrimps, the works. But it wasn’t close to being sustainable. I always had a healthy cycle, and I never once had mass deaths, but I never went more than a few weeks without 1-2 deaths. All without symptoms. Sounding familiar?
So, looking beyond Columnaris, fin rot, medications and treatments, I think maybe your tank/community is trying to tell you something. If that’s the case, fighting it now may (emphasis: may) solve a short-term problem, but something else will come up sooner or later.
My advice for your current situation, and for moving forward, is that you keep an eye on things, do only what you must to maintain the best possible environment and water quality, and when your tank and community stabilizes, work with that success instead of trying to reach something else.
As for salt, sure go for it.
 

mattgirl

Jenoli42
My advice for your current situation, and for moving forward, is that you keep an eye on things, do only what you must to maintain the best possible environment and water quality, and when your tank and community stabilizes, work with that success instead of trying to reach something else.
As for salt, sure go for it.
I couldn't agree more with this whole post. I have learned over the years that one can't save all fish and I knew I would be pulling my hair out if I tried. In the wild only the strongest survive. I have excepted the fact that it is the same in my tank. All we can really do is keep their home as close to perfect as we can and let nature do her thing. I've learned to accept the losses and move on.

I learned a long time ago that neon tetras for the most part don't last long. Thankfully there are exceptions and I have had them live for a couple of years. When my school of them gets down to 5 I get more because I love these little guys and always want some of them in my tank.

Over the past 2 1/2 years I have lost 2 albino cory's, 1 false juliI cory, numerous neons, 3 Dalmation Mollies shortly after buying them, (the 3 orange ones bought at the same time are all alive and well and producing babies), 1 tiny bristle nose pleco that never grew and finally died, and now I am slowly losing some of the zebra and pearl danios I started with. I also lost 3 of the 4 columbian red/blue tetras I bought on a whI'm because someone used them to cycle their tank and then returned them.

All of this to say, fish loss in almost inevitable. A lot of the fish available to most of us aren't a tough as we would like for them to be and no matter how hard we try losses are going to happen.

Jenoli42 No one has done more than you have to assure that your fish live long healthy lives but some fish do die no matter how hard we try.

Personally I would just add maybe a forth of the recommended dose of aquarium salt and then go enjoy your vacation. Be sure to let your step-daughter know that it is possible some fish might be lost and if possible she needs to take them out as soon as possible.

It really is way past time for you and your family to get some relief from worrying about what shoe is gonna hit the floor today and time for y'all to start enjoying instead of stressing.

Hopefully knowing that both bitseriously and I have lost fish will help you understand it happens no matter what we do or how we do it.
 

Jenoli42

thank you both bitseriously & mattgirl
I'll update with any significant changes.

Tiana's fish is LucI in this tank so she'll keep an eye on them when she feeds while we're gone (btw, we're going scuba diving in 9ºC water off Stewart Island down south. I may turn into a popscicle. the water is meant to be ridiculously clear though.)

with only a couple exceptions, we've been happy to give up our fave stocking idea in order to have a more stable or better community tank. (one exception was our cardinals which I refused to give up on after the first batch died in our tiny QT. the next two batches have been happy & healthy in the larger qt & then their destination tank.)

can I ask one more question please? the batch of cardinals that's our final batch to stock our other tank had been in QT for two weeks... then I stupidly stuck my hands in there to feed them without washing after my hands from the bowfront tank that's now got issues.

how long would yous keep the fish in QT to make sure I didn't spread a virulent form of disease to these fish before adding to our OG tank? would you re start 4 wks from the day I put my hands in?
 

bitseriously

would you re start 4 wks from the day I put my hands in?
Time could prive me wrong, but I’m not convinced that the Columnaris that you may have in the DT is a primary pathogen.
Meaning, if the cards are healthy now, and remain that way, I don’t think your cross-contamination slip-up will be an issue. If u will feel better taking some action (as opposed to none), maybe follow @mattgirl’s advice and salt the card’s tank before going away.
 

mattgirl

I have to agree with bitseriously although I am sure you researched the symptoms of columnaris 'til you were sure it is in fact what is going on and it could very well be. It is very possible that the cory's problem was/is caused by stress from being picked on by the Odessas. It is hard to know what is going on when the lights are off or our backs are turned. Lots of bad things can and do happen to stressed out fish and sadly we can't always tell if it is a disease or something else going on. Hopefully the Cory's will be the only one affected by it since they were the ones being picked on.

I think I would stick to the original timeline for the QT cardinals 'specially if they seem to be alright when their time in quarantine is up. Just keep a close eye on them. I have been reading up on this disease and it seems most fish are prone to getting it but something has to trigger it. Most of the time it doesn't raise its ugly head until some injury or some kind of stress comes along to trigger it.

I am so jealous of you. I would love to be there with y'all even though I would probably turn into a Popsicle quicker than you and may never get warm again but it would be so worth it
 

Disturbed.)

Temperature is a trigger for columnaris. It doesn't reproduce well in temps below 75. My first bout with it was after ich found its way into my 275 gallon system; most likely on java fern that I didn't qt, just rinsed and sprayed with H2O2. There were no aggressive fish in the tank. mattgirl is right though you can't always know what's going on I did have two Severums that were as laid back as a cichlid can get but who knows what they did when I was not in the room and they were bored. I dosed the system and cranked the heat. Right when the ich was only a few spots in the whole tank I started seeing saddlebacks.

The next time I had to deal with it was without question because of aggression. It was in a 75 gallon grow out tank of Red Spot Gold Sevs and they are notoriously brutal with each other when young. Once it sets in on an injured fish it spreads throughout the tank if you don't remove both the aggressor and injured fish quickly enough
 

bitseriously

Hey Jenoli42 how's this situation progressing?
[Sorry can't recall if we're into your planned absence or not yet]
 

Fishlover832

Just a heads up, I'm finally starting a thread for my situation. I just lost another fish with no warning signs. This is so frustrating.
 

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