I have angelfish wigglers!!!

Bit shocked/excited/alarmed this morning! Yesterday I tried to flick some snails off the clay pot where Eddy had laid her eggs and both she and Colin attacked me with more enthusiasm then they have with past clutches. It actually hurt a little bit! It made me wonder whether this clutch was actually going to be viable. In fact I thought the eggs looked a little darker when I peered closely. They've never survived before though so I didn't have much hope.

This morning I looked in and there were no eggs on the clay pot. Then I noticed a weird whitish film hanging off the edge of a Java fern leaf higher up and looked closer thinking it was some weird bacterial growth. It was a mass of wigglers! Mom and Dad must have moved them up there in the dark after they hatched!

I am now completely alarmed! I have hungry tetras in that tank. I don't know if I can catch them. I had enough difficulty catching them to move them into this tank! I do and I don't want the babies to survive. It's a lot of work! I'm scared! I'm not worthy! *sob*

 

:;bananahat

 

Sounds exciting!

If you are unsure whether you want the fry to survive maybe see how good the parents are at protecting them? It would probably be interesting to see the parental instincts come through. I'm not sure how you would go about feeding them though.

How often do Eddy and Colin spawn?

 

I, too, have some day 1 free swimming wigglers. You should do what I did and quickly set up a 10 gallon with a sponge filter and heater to around 81 degrees, and then use some water from the main tank mixed with fresh primed water. Let the tank run a few days until it looks like they are just about to be free swimming, and then siphon them out with a turkey baster into the 10 gallon being very careful. I suck them up with only the first half of the baster suction and then keep pulling in water the other 50% until I can put my finger on the opening to prevent them from falling out in movement. The first time this took hours, but last night I did it in just an hour and a half. Keep checking back till you have gotten them all because some are well hidden.

Once they grow a bit I would set up another 10 gallon and split them into two even groups to grow-out a bit more. Then eventually, I did it after 6-7 weeks, you will move them to their own grow-out tank.

Yes it is a lot of work because I recommend water changes about every other day, and feeding every 4-6 hours. It is pretty fun and fulfilling to see them growing though (you probably will have a few losses I had about 8 out of 140), and it can be profitable if you make it more than a hobby.

 

They'll need grow out tanks larger than 10 gal eventually. If you can't provide this, let them be eaten Hard, I know! If this is too difficult for you to repeat, it may be a good idea to separate the pair.

 

This is their third or fourth spawn but the first one that was viable. I think I'm going to let nature take its course but with a little help from me. I may try to grow out just a few for the experience and I've bought brine shrimp eggs just in case!

Got home and the leaf that the wigglers had been attached to was like swiss cheese! Clearly the Marisa cornuarietis had been there I was sure the parents had been so stressed that they must have eaten the babies. I watched them for a bit though and they led me straight to them; the whole big mass of babies had been moved to a new leaf. I took a video! They're very tiny and it's not very clear but that's Mom Eddy hanging out behind them

Can I use a 20 long as a first tank? I can go out and buy a 10 gallon but is it important that it be exactly that size? I can put 2 sponge filters in it instead of just one.

Also, how many should I take out and when?

 

Can I use a 20 long as a first tank? I can go out and buy a 10 gallon but is it important that it be exactly that size? I can put 2 sponge filters in it instead of just one.

Also, how many should I take out and when?

A 20 long will be a good size for a few weeks. Maybe a month. Depending on how many you have.

Maybe what you should do is just try and get a small group of them and let nature take its course for the rest of them. That would allow the 20 gallon to be usable for a longer period.

I was lucky and my first few spawns ended up being very small. (20 or less) because the parents didn't do a very good job getting them to the free swimming point.

I would love for you to be able to raise some babies and I'd love to go through the experience with you. Is the 20 gallon set up? If not, get it set up....I would suggest you get a turkey baster and try and suck up a small group of them and put them into the 20 gallon now. If I want to raise any babies, I like to remove them before they start swimming.

But since you don't have a ton of space, don't remove too many of them. A 20 gallon would work for a couple months if you just have a small number of them. And when you do go in there with the turkey baster, try really hard to distract the parents!!!!!

 

I have turkey basters and the 20 was in the process of being taken down. It still has the sand substrate so I guess I'd better get on that and get it cleaned up today. I have one day off and I have to cook the turkey and all the fixings today, too!

Happy Thanksgiving (one day late) from Canada!

 

I have turkey basters and the 20 was in the process of being taken down. It still has the sand substrate so I guess I'd better get on that and get it cleaned up today. I have one day off and I have to cook the turkey and all the fixings today, too!

Happy Thanksgiving (one day late) from Canada!

Happy Canadian thanksgiving!!

Get to work on that turkey....BUT...get to work on that tank too!! LOL You don't have to take out the sand by the way (if you were planning to)....I haven't done bare bottom on any of my fry tanks..... You can if you want to, but you don't HAVE to is all I am saying.

 

Well that's good! I thought you had bare bottom in all your grow-out tanks. I thought it had to do with being able to keep it spotless in there and to see the fry. I'll have you know that I'm absolutely terrified at the thought of having to do water changes with such tiny little babies floating around.

In other news, I just got a practice run at moving a wiggler with a turkey baster! Mom and Dad are doing a great job at keeping the kids in line and putting back the ones that get away but there was one they didn't seem to be able to see that had attached to a small bladder snail! I decided to rescue that one before it got too far away where it was more likely to be eaten by a tetra and got to experience an attack on the turkey baster. I got the little guy on the first try though and gently released it right in front of Mom who scooped it up and put it back

 

Well that's good! I thought you had bare bottom in all your grow-out tanks. I thought it had to do with being able to keep it spotless in there and to see the fry. I'll have you know that I'm absolutely terrified at the thought of having to do water changes with such tiny little babies floating around.

In other news, I just got a practice run at moving a wiggler with a turkey baster! Mom and Dad are doing a great job at keeping the kids in line and putting back the ones that get away but there was one they didn't seem to be able to see that had attached to a small bladder snail! I decided to rescue that one before it got too far away where it was more likely to be eaten by a tetra and got to experience an attack on the turkey baster. I got the little guy on the first try though and gently released it right in front of Mom who scooped it up and put it back

Bare bottom is always easiest to keep clean...but I think sand is 2nd best. Gravel would be the worst because all the debris would sink into the gravel and it is hard to do a gravel vac with fry!! At least with sand it also rests on top....like it would on a bare bottom.

But I don't get a whole lot of debris in my fry tanks. I have HOB filters on all of my fry tanks (with a sponge over the intake) So that helps I am sure.....I also have a bubble stone in each of the fry tanks for added movement. When I do a water change and the babies are too tiny to keep track of, I just suck water from the very top....I figure...I may not be vacuuming, but I am still changing water.

Once they get a little bigger (a couple weeks in) it will be easier to avoid them because they will be easier to see. And if they do end up in the bucket, you can just turkey baster them right back into the tank. They don't get hurt or stuck in the syphon when they are that little. In fact the first time I moved free swimming babies, I used the syphon to suck them up!!

So it sounds to me like some of the babies are starting to try and free swim....so I suggest if you want to remove some...definitely do it today, it will be harder once they all start swimming. You can get more in one "suck" of the turkey baster if they are all still stuck together.

Glad you were able to get that one little baby back to it's parents!! Very cute story

 

Being a 20 long with a sand bottom I found I couldn't have a HOB running because it just threw the sand everywhere. I've been running extra sponge filters in their tank all along though so I can just move those cycled sponges over and I expect it will be enough to keep the water nice for them.

 

Being a 20 long with a sand bottom I found I couldn't have a HOB running because it just threw the sand everywhere. I've been running extra sponge filters in their tank all along though so I can just move those cycled sponges over and I expect it will be enough to keep the water nice for them.

Ya, a couple sponge filters will be just fine!!

GET MOVING!!!!!!!!!

 

On it!

 

On it!

I am so excited!!! it's like they are my own angels!!

 

Ack! I've half filled the tank and apparently I missed some teensy baby RCS. They've grown and I have some small adults roaming around the tank! They must have managed to survive in the tiny bit of water that was still sitting. Are they dangerous to baby angels? I may have to break down the tank after all to get them out of there completely!

 

Big congrats on the wrigglers. =D Looking forward to seeing updates~

 

I recommend moving those RCs... the fry should be alone in the tank. I know said you didn't need to remove the substrate, but if you're doing water changes and cleaning every other day or so it would really help IMO to have a bare bottom because you can see the waste more clearly. I can always see a lot of left over food and stuff and you can even reuse the turkey baster to get the big clumps up. It will also be easier for them to see / pick up food that has drifted to the bottom. Now that my fry are in a 90 gallon I have substrate, but none of my fry tanks did because it will make the cleaning take longer.

 

The wigglers are starting to swim!

New video! The parents moved the babies again after I stole a few but moved them right to the front of the tank!

 

Looking good!!!

 

I just got home from my pre-storm shopping trip and I can't see the babies anywhere I know the parents must have moved them but it drives me nuts when I can't see them...

 

Don't be so sure... the same thing happened to me and they were gone right after free swimming...which is why we recommended moving them. Most likely the parents ate them because of stress from the community or the community ate them ._.

 

I found them! The parents had moved them again

 

I found them! The parents had moved them again

I knew it!! They have proven to be very good parents!!

I still love that one of them is an angel that was in terrible shape not too long ago when you rescued him. And you did such a good job that now he's breeding!!!

I keep forgetting, which one is the one you just rescued?

 

That was Colin! I don't know if it's normal when fins have to regrow but he has flowier fins than Eddy and also more of those threadlike points off the ends. His fins were chopped back to about half their current size by a combination of nipping and rot. He's doing pretty good

 

Those little wrigglers are very cute! Eddy and Colin seem to be doing a good job

 

The parents seem to be doing a really good job of protecting their babies for their first time.

 

They are! I'm really proud of them

LOL! I just looked in on the babies and Eddy paused in her fry wrangling to look at me at which point a small cloud of wigglers rose from the leaf and swam off in several directions! Eddy's attention was right back on her babies and she's been desperately trying to round them up ever since. It's a lost cause. Those babies have learned to swim and they don't want to stop;D

Here they are!!!

 

Awesome video!! The babies are so cute!!!

 

I've managed to spot 2 of the wigglers I moved over to the 20! Either that or I spotted the same one twice They're so hard to keep track of! I feel sorry for the parents

 

Here I think it's difficult at times to chase after two of my offspring, I would go nuts chasing after that many.

 

I think my favorite thing about this video is watching all the babies swimming around gleefully and mom and dad just looking on in obvious dismay LOL.

 

Well now the babies are sticking close to Mom Eddy which is unbearably cute. She has a constant cloud of little babies hovering around her head at all time! Poor Colin seems to have been given the task of rounding up the stragglers who try to take off. I swear they put them to bed on a leaf last night. It was so cute to see Eddy hovering protectively over all these little babies resting on the leaf :3

Oh, and it seems that some of the wigglers that I moved to the 20 gallon away from the parents have survived! My brine shrimp haven't hatched yet but they have those teeny tiny copepods or isopods (the little white things) and I've been adding powdered presoaked pellets and bloodworm liquid so they have something to eat until then.

Eddy's "cloud"




LOL just looked in and Eddy's been given a break. Colin now has a cloud around his head!

 

Congrats!

 

Congratulation

 

Thank-you

The family was begging for food at the surface so I thought it would be a great opportunity for a picture from above. Apparently hovering over his children like a common predator is a big no-no to Dad and he splashed me repeatedly until I left, dripping I love this guy!

Here's one picture I managed to get that you can see the babies clearly enough to identify them.



I don't think any of the babies that were in with the parents (about 20) made it through the power outage yesterday. Their tank dropped temperature the most because it wasn't well insulated. Eddy and Colin both look like their slime coat went into overdrive and they both look a little ghosty today with that extra covering.

The good news is that the 20 was well insulated so only lost a couple of degrees and the babies in there seem to have survived quite well! I'm sad for Eddy and Colin though

 

Awww bummer! Sorry to hear that! How long was the power out?

How many babies do you think you have in the 20?

 

Well wishes to the family!

 

Approximately 10 hours. The temperature in the house didn't drop that I noticed but still lower than my heated tanks. The parents' tank dropped the most because it wasn't as well insulated.

I think I have 3 babies in the 20. Could be more, could be less. I can't see them all at the same time and I have a heck of a time seeing them even when I know what I'm looking at! It was cute this morning when I looked in and spotted a baby appearing to "attack" its reflection

Ugh. It may not have been the temperature that killed them. Just checked and my nitrites were at about 0.50ppm! Though I'm not sure that would have happened during the power outage since that requires the filter to be running. I think it's more likely that the BB were set back during the outage and then when it came back on the only bacteria to really survive were the ones that convert ammonia to nitrites. Couple of back to back water changes and large doses of conditioner and I hope they spring back soon enough. Too late for the babies but Eddy and Colin should feel better soon. I wonder why it only happened in that tank?

 

Ugh I just caught up on this thread and I'm so sorry. What a stroke of bad luck!

As for your question, maybe it has to do with bioload size?