I have a question about nitrifying bacterium....

So, my question is two part:

1) In matrix, the anaerobic bacteria, is that the denitrifying bacterium that can turn my nitrates into N gas?

If so, can I buy these bacterium to accelerate their establishment? What product(s)?

2) Are any of these bacterium in seachem stability?

I did a 70% water change yesterday and my nitrates are about 10PPM today, so I need all the help I can get!

 

Bumping this up for you

 

So Matrix doesn't have the anaerobic bacteria already on it, but in particular setups, it can grow the anaerobic bacteria needed to take up nitrates. I think you'd need to do something like a denitrate coil though.

As far as I know, Stability doesn't have the anaerobic bacteria in it.

Sounds like you're on the right track with the water changes!

 

Thanks! My Bloodworms add a lot of nitrates, but they love them! Been looking for a bottle of anaerobics to seed my matrix. yesterday I bought a reactor and denitrate. So I'd like to seed that too. My plants can't keep up with wastes anymore. Thanks!

My ICH is spreading still too!!

 

Thanks! My Bloodworms add a lot of nitrates, but they love them! Been looking for a bottle of anaerobics to seed my matrix. yesterday I bought a reactor and denitrate. So I'd like to seed that too. My plants can't keep up with wastes anymore. Thanks!

My ICH is spreading still too!!

Water changes, water changes, water changes. Gravel vacs and heat will help the ich.

Sounds like you're feeding too much. How many cubes of bloodworms are you giving them, and how often?

 

Are you dosing paraguard every day? It should clear it up.

Matrix will grow the necessary anaerobic bacteria on its own. The physical composition allows it to house both aerobic and anaerobic nitrifyers. You can't find them in a bottle because once you put them in your tank they won't survive as it is oxygenated. It takes them about 3-4 weeks to establish themselves in Matrix.

 

Water changes, water changes, water changes. Gravel vacs and heat will help the ich.

Sounds like you're feeding too much. How many cubes of bloodworms are you giving them, and how often?

Umm...Luckily blood worms, prazipro, and flubendazole have fattened up my wasting clown loaches. But, I dunno if I am feeding them too muchnow. I feed frozen blood worms, about 4 packs of them every two days. I feed flakes once daily and shrimp pellets and hakarI pellets every 2 days. I feed cherry shrimp whenever any hatch that are a good size- this seems comparably much slower! I can't seem to keep enough cherries, heh.

I bought another heater for in the future since my old one broke- since my current one cannot heat to 86 degrees, the temperature differential is too great for the tank size since it is only 300W. It could do 82 degrees though. The new one is in the mail.

I just don't know if the seachem purigen will remove paraguard effectiveness. I have them both in my tank. I am on my second treatment of paraguard today.
@CindiL do you think that the denitrate reactor will work for denitratifaction too? Let me show you what I bought. I realize that I may not use all that denitrate in one setting, but in the long run this was the cheapest way to purchase it... Lol, you know how this hobby is, you will always need more of stuff eventually, lol. Do you think this will work well? Should I add floss to it as well? I already have a dedicated water flosser






also, a related question. I was considering turning my cascade 1500 into an entire denitrate thing too. I was going to fill it with denitrate and remove all of the other stuff, except leave one of the matrix. I was going to put the flow down as far as it would go... this filter has so much bypass that I don't really like it as a water flosser. I do not like the cheapies anymore- to much bypass. I just don't even know that it will do this job well either. What are your thoughts on this? should I turn it into a denitrate factory? I currently have a fluval fx6 and hydor 600 who can do normal filtration

 

Purigen will remove paraguard and praziquantel or other medicines so make sure to remove it and/or carbon. Also if you have a UV sterilizer it needs to be turned off. I'll look at what you got and get back to you.

 

By 4 packs, do you mean 4 frozen packs, or 4 frozen cubes?

 

By 4 packs, do you mean 4 frozen packs, or 4 frozen cubes?

4 frozen packs, they are circular packs and when thawed have worms and "juice" in them, do you recommend the cubes instead? I see those in the store, but I wasn't sure what was best.

Also, another question... will this bleach work to restore purigen or is it not safe for my tank? ... Guess I will take out my purigen today, blah!



Also, is paraguard or prazipro amine based? I hope now it won't kill my fish after I renew it!

Sorry I have a lot of lingering questions. Does seachem pristine have denitrifying bacterium in it? If not, what kind?

 

Circular packs are fine. I was thinking you meant 4 entire packs of bloodworm cubes (which would be a ridiculous amount!) I might go down to no more than 1 circular pack a day, and don't feed those every day or on the same day you feed the other foods (you can try two if they eat all of it in 3-4 minutes or so). You can hurt fish by overfeeding them too.

 

I agree that four circular packs is too much

I've got about 35 small fish and they get one circular pack for dinner each night.

Yes, bleach works to restore purigen and no, prime and prazipro are not amine based. I will tell you something that happened to me that may have weakened my fish starting the whole columnaris outbreak I had this month. I was routinely recharging my purigen as directed and then one day after putting a re-charged, soaked in prime pack in, I had a gourami die, I did a quick stick check which sometimes I'll do before doing my more in-depth tests and there was chlorine in my tank!!!! Ugh. I threw it out and don't use it anymore. Went back to carbon. So my suggestion would be after recharging and following all the directions to soak it in a gallon of water and make sure there is no residual chlorine leaking into the water before putting in in your tank. It is normal for it to smell btw after recharging. Just rinse it well before putting it into your tank and the smell will go away.

I don't know what Seachem Pristine is?

 

I agree that four circular packs is too much

I've got about 35 small fish and they get one circular pack for dinner each night.

Yes, bleach works to restore purigen and no, prime and prazipro are not amine based. I will tell you something that happened to me that may have weakened my fish starting the whole columnaris outbreak I had this month. I was routinely recharging my purigen as directed and then one day after putting a re-charged, soaked in prime pack in, I had a gourami die, I did a quick stick check which sometimes I'll do before doing my more in-depth tests and there was chlorine in my tank!!!! Ugh. I threw it out and don't use it anymore. Went back to carbon. So my suggestion would be after recharging and following all the directions to soak it in a gallon of water and make sure there is no residual chlorine leaking into the water before putting in in your tank. It is normal for it to smell btw after recharging. Just rinse it well before putting it into your tank and the smell will go away.

I don't know what Seachem Pristine is?

Well carbon can cause hole in the head disease... and so I avoid it too!!! I will measure the water for chlorine shortly after putting it back in there! I just looked up online about purigen..."Do not reuse if odor of bleach/chlorine is detectable. In case of doubt, soak beads in small quantity of water and test for residual chlorine with a chlorine test kit." THANK YOU!!! Now when I recharge I will be sure it doesn't have any residual chlorine! I have the strips for it.

Seachem pristine says it removes sludge

 

I've never heard of carbon causing hole in the head. How does that work?

I wouldn't bother with Pristine. You shouldn't have sludge if you're cleaning your tank and filter properly.

 

I've never heard of carbon causing hole in the head. How does that work?

I wouldn't bother with Pristine. You shouldn't have sludge if you're cleaning your tank and filter properly.

I was hoping pristine would have denitrate bacteria. I am about to get really busy in school so I wanted to seed some nitrate thing so I don't need to do WC as often if possible.

Umm it is the only potential cause that has shown large evidence in research...

Activated carbon depletes necessary minerals and elements from the water and it completely messes up the entire % makeup of each of them... Which leads to growth issues, lateral line problems, systemic issues (e.g. hole in the head), thus- hole in the head disease.

Purigen is better than that because it has comparably very minimal impact on elements... This is why I am willing to use it.

 

I've never heard of carbon causing hole in the head. How does that work?

I wouldn't bother with Pristine. You shouldn't have sludge if you're cleaning your tank and filter properly.

There was an entire thread with a link to a study about that alleged carbon-HITH link but it was a very small sample size and variable control didn't seem all that good. The results were interesting, but not conclusive.

 

I was hoping pristine would have denitrate bacteria. I am about to get really busy in school so I wanted to seed some nitrate thing so I don't need to do WC as often if possible.

Umm it is the only potential cause that has shown large evidence in research...

Activated carbon depletes necessary minerals and elements from the water and it completely messes up the entire % makeup of each of them... Which leads to growth issues, lateral line problems, systemic issues (e.g. hole in the head), thus- hole in the head disease.

Purigen is better than that because it has comparably very minimal impact on elements... This is why I am willing to use it.

Nitrate reducing sources don't eliminate the need for water changes. I think if you do more thorough gravel vacs and filter cleanings as well as feed less, you'll have a much slower build up of nitrates.

Do you mind providing the source for that? I've never heard that, and I know many people who use carbon in their tanks without issues. Not sure if that's the whole issue.

 

There was an entire thread with a link to a study about that alleged carbon-HITH link but it was a very small sample size and variable control didn't seem all that good. The results were interesting, but not conclusive.

Well, there are many more studies which show that activated carbon change up the elemental makeup of the water. At the very least, you can find many of those and think of possible changes for the fish. Carbon adsorbs certain elements, but not others and it exchanges some of them sometimes and changes the balance.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/08997659.2011.608608?cookieSet=1


@CindiL & @TexasDomer
Basically elemental carbon reacts to form compounds with the minerals/ trace elements. I am assuming that purigen works because it selectively has a stronger affinity for proteins and larger molecules whereas activated carbon is well just carbon bonded together mainly. So some of the elemental carbon are exchanged for other elements- since its almost all carbon. With purigen I am guessing it contains some minerals so that when they are exchanged, there is not a complete loss of them.

Activated carbon is a great ion exchanger/adsorbant (in this case Carbon compounds for trace elements) and seachem states that their product is not a good ion exchanger or absorbent.

Seachem purigen: having an extreme affinity for nitrogenous organics

This is a photo of activated carbon and you can easily see how it would be a great ion absorbent. Or I can after my organic chemistry.


ALSO what is very important to realize is that seachem DOES NOT state their matrix carbon has very little impact on trace elements- because that would be a complete lie. It totally has a VERY strong impact on them! Macroporous still has a large impact on trace elements,but it is not as much. Look at this snippet.

While carbon is generally considered to be a chemical filter, that is not precisely true. It is in fact a mechanical filter as well, but it is only capable of mechanically filtering objects of molecular size. It functions through extremely small cracks and crevices, called macropores and micropores. Microporous carbons remove primarily metals and smaller ions (like trace minerals) and are best suited to air filtration, while macroporous carbons remove primarily larger organic molecules (like nitrogenous waste) and are best suited to water filtration.

 

I was under the impression that hole in the head disease is caused by a bacteria. There are antibiotics that treat it.
Well maybe I shouldn't use carbon either. I probably don't need either really.

 

Just did a 50% water change, now I have 20 ppm of nitrate after feeding... Cant wait until my reactor starts working It said a few days and it should be!

 

I thought you had 10 ppm earlier?

When you did the water change, are you thoroughly gravel vac'ing the substrate and rinsing your filter media in old tank water? Your nitrates should not be rising that fast. I'd fast your fish for a few days. It won't kill them, even if they're sick. Sounds like you're overfeeding by a lot.

 

OK. Didn't gravel vac, Just did WC. Right now they are adjusting to the change in temperature... I increased temp to 86, but it's at 82.9 (it's max ability)... They seem sluggish but the ICH is an already dropping off.

Tomorrow I should be able to do higher temp, with my new heater... I can fast.

My tap had 10 ppm nitrates.

 

OK. Didn't gravel vac, Just did WC. Right now they are adjusting to the change in temperature... I increased temp to 86, but it's at 82.9 (it's max ability)... They seem sluggish but the ICH is an already dropping off.

Tomorrow I should be able to do higher temp, with my new heater... I can fast.

My tap had 10 ppm nitrates.

Until you get the sludge and debris under control, I'd be doing gravel vacs every time you do a water change. This is especially important when you're dealing with ich.

Glad to hear the ich is disappearing! Just remember to keep the temp at 86 F for two full weeks, regardless of whether you see ich spots or not.

 

Thank you!!! would you recommend that I did 89.5 degrees instead for 4 days? Its supposed to kill the ICH. I have clown loaches, otocinculus and angel fish.

 

Thank you!!! would you recommend that I did 89.5 degrees instead for 4 days? Its supposed to kill the ICH. I have clown loaches, otocinculus and angel fish.

I wouldn't. I'd stick with the 86 F for 2 weeks.

Also, for future reference, most of the commonly available otos aren't temp compatible with angels.

 

well which algae eaters can handle the heat (

 

My understanding is that when you use paraguard or another ich medicine you should not turn up the heat as the combination is more stressful. I am treating for a small amount of ich on a couple of new fish and just using paraguard. Today was only the third dosing but there seems to be less of them now.

 

OK. I won't do both. Next time I'll do Paraguard only. Two weeks is long. Heh. How long is Paraguard treatment for this?

 

They recommend two weeks.

 

well which algae eaters can handle the heat (

O. vestitus, nerites, and some plecos. Algae can also usually be controlled with a different lighting schedule.

 

Well. My snails all were eaten. Is this vestius? This is what I have