I Have A Betta In Distress

I'm so scared for my fish, I test my water once a week which after reading around here I realized I should actually be doing every other day and shouldnt use the strips because they are unreliable so I'm gonna get the master test kit one but anyways, on Monday, because I tested my water with the strip and the nitrates were 200ppm and nitrites are 10ppm in my 5 gallon betta tank and my pH wouldn't go up past 6.0 I've been adding the neutral regulator everyday like it says on the label to try and get it to 7 but I won't budge. Also my ammonia level is way too high like between 2.0-4.0 I've been adding ammo lock every other day 2.5 ml pet smart had me do a 50% water change on Monday and come back Wednesday. So I went back Wednesday and everything was pretty much the same they said to do another 50% water change but replace the water with spring water and now today (Friday) the nitrates are down to 80ppm and ammonia is down just slightly but nitrites and pH are still the same. I changed my filter Monday because it was time to do it anyways could that be what caused this? It was really dirty. Oh and I'm only feeding him every other day and I did very thorough gravel vacs every time I did the water changes. I've had this tank for about 6 months. I was afraid I took out a lot of the good bacteria so I added some tetra safe start I added 2.5 ml. Should I do another water change today?

 

When you say you changed the filter does that mean you removed the cartridge and replaced it with a new one? It sounds like your cycle may have crashed.

 

I changed the cartridge out for a new one, I had these spiked readings before I changed the filter media.

 

Water changes and more water changes even if you have to do them twice a day. I would be doing at least 75% water changes until you get those numbers down.

I would first run the tests on your source water to see if some of the problems are coming from it. If they are then buy some bottled water. Spring or just plain drinking water that can bought from dispensers at lots of the big box stores. Just not distilled water.

stop adding the ammo-lock or anything other than your water conditioner if you have chlorine in your tap water. I always recommend Seachem Prime for your water conditioner since it also helps keep fish safer when there is an ammonia spike of 1.0 or less.

 

Okay so it is safe to just keep taking that much water out?

 

Okay so it is safe to just keep taking that much water out?

Yes it is as long as you treat the water for chlorine before adding it. Right now your numbers are at critical levels and they have to be lowered with water changes.

Just test the tank after each water change to see where you stand.

 

Just keep doing water changes and don't try to mess with the ph. The fish will adapt to the pH and messing around with it can stress out the fish.

 

Okay I just went out and bought 9 gallons of spring water the tap water here is very bad

what should I add to the tank after taking all this water out? I have...
tetra safe start
Terta easy balence
Terra cleaning bacteria
ApI Stress-zyme
ApI Ammo lock
ApI Betta fix
ApI Aquarium salt
ApI Tap water conditioner

 

Okay I just went out and bought 9 gallons of spring water the tap water here is very bad

When you change his water don't add anything to it. Since you are using water that should have no chlorine in it even a water conditioner shouldn't be necessary.

Which water conditioner do you normally use? I do highly recommend Prime because of its ability to render small amounts of ammonia, nitrites and nitrates less harmful for your fish.

I see you answered my question as I was typing and I answered yours too Add nothing

 

I usually use the betta water conditioner but I ran out and have been using the ApI one

 

I usually use the betta water conditioner but I ran out and have been using the ApI one

I edited my last post as you were typing.

 

what should I add to the tank after taking all this water out? I have...
tetra safe start
Terta easy balence
Terra cleaning bacteria
ApI Stress-zyme
ApI Ammo lock
ApI Betta fix
ApI Aquarium salt
ApI Tap water conditioner

Pretty much the only two in the list you need is the safe start and water conditioner, I would stop using all the others you have listed and get prime to help with ammonia issues.

 

I know you changed your filter cartridge so threw out some of the bacteria necessary for a healthy tank but there will still be some in there to help get your cycle back.

Right now the very most important thing is getting that toxic water out of there and replace it with clean water.

we may be able to work with your tap water after this is taken care of but for now the bottled water should get him taken care of.

I have to run to town. I should be back in a couple of hours. I just wanted to let you know I am not ignoring you if I don't answer you for a while.

 

Okay I did the water change and now it's reading NO3 at 40ppm and NO2 between 3-5 and ammonia is reading at 1.0 also I just noticed Algae starting to build up along the top of the tank is this all related?

Okay thank you!

 

HI Geena Welcome to FishLore!

The first thing I want to recommend is you read up on and fully understand the nitrogen cycle (clicking blue word will take you to article explaining it).

Okay, now on to what you should do...
1) Get and API Master Test Kit for Freshwater and a bottle of Prime ASAP. If you can only afford one, get the Prime.
2) Do daily 50% water changes (preferably with Prime) until you get the API Test Kit.
3) Once you have the test kit, test to see what your water parameters really are. You may be surprised how different they were for the test strips.
4) Now do some water changes with Prime to get the ammonia and/or nitrite levels as close to 0ppm as possible.
5) WAIT 24 HOURS! (VERY IMPORTANT)
6) 24 hours after your last water change add an entire, well shaken, appropriate sized bottle of Tetra SafeStart to the tank.
7) Do nothing but lightly feed your betta for the next 14 days (no water changes, no adding chemicals...nothing)
8) On day 14 test your water. If all worked correctly, you'll have a cycled tank.

Sadly you have purchased quite a few products that you do not need. They would be:
Terta easy balence
Terra cleaning bacteria
ApI Stress-zyme (Does nothing, but every fishkeeper (myself included) seems to own a bottle of it that the used once before realizing it is not needed.
ApI (You're much better off using Prime. I lot of members who used Ammo Lock seem to be unhappy with it)
ApI Betta fix (You betta doesn't need fixing...he's perfect the way he is.
ApI (Come on, it's a freshwater fish.)
ApI Tap (Once again, you're better off using Prime, but once cycled you can use up the API Tap Water Conditioner)

Best of luck!

 

I keep trying to understand the nitrogen cycle I'm still learning it. I unfortunately went into having a fish without any fish knowledge which seems to be the case for a lot of beginners unfortunately. I am very upset for my poor fish that he has to suffer from my mistakes. Thank you for writing out all of this instruction and simplifying it for me I'll keep reading about the nitrogen cycle until I really fully understand it. So today I've done the 75% water change should I do the 50% tomorrow with prime? I can only afford 2 bottles right now but I can pick it up tonight if I have to.

 

OK, back from town. Just have to cook us something to eat here in a few minutes but wanted to say, jdhef give you some very good information and a good plan to follow.

Please don't beat yourself up too much. We were all beginners at one point and we all made beginner mistakes. The good thing now is that you have a good idea as to what is happening and have a plan to fix it.

The 2 most important things one needs in their fish cabinet is Prime and an API Master Freshwater Test Kit. With the test kit one can know exactly what is happening with the water and with the Prime one can protect their water pets from low amounts of ammonia, nitrite and even nitrates.

 

Okay I am going to get prime and the kit asap

Do you think he will be okay?

 

Do you think he will be okay?

How does he look to you? It is very possible that your perimeters aren't as bad as they seem since test strips have been known not to be very accurate 'specially as they age.

 

The nitrogen cycle is really less complex than it seems.

In a cycled tank:
1) Fish constantly release ammonia into the water. Ammonia is highly toxic to fish
2) A bacteria in your filter media, consumes the ammonia in the water as it passes through the filter media.
3) This bacteria then releases nitrites into the water as it's waste product. Nitrites are also very toxic to fish,
4) A second bacteria that also lives in your filter media consumes the nitrites in the water as the water passed thru the filter media.
5) This second bacteria releases nitrates into the water as it's waste product. At low levels, nitrates are not toxic to fish.
6) Because fish constantly release ammonia, which is constantly converted into nitrites, which are constantly converted into nitrates...your nitrate levels start to build up
7) To keep the nitrates low enough so they are not toxic (under 20ppm preferred) you need to do weekly partial water changes.

But in an uncycled tank:
1) Fish release ammonia, and it builds and builds and can kill your fish.
2) After several weeks of having ammonia in the water, that ammonia consuming bacteria will start growing in your filter media. It will then start converting ammonia into nitrites.
3) After several weeks of having nitrites in the water, that second bacteria will gorw and then convert the nitrites into nitrates
4) At that point the tank would be cycled, if your fish didn't die first. If your fish die, there is no ammonia being released and the ammonia converting bacteria would starve off.

TSS is basically a bottle of that bacteria which would grow in your filter media over the course of several weeks. So you can see how TSS would really speed the process up.

 

He seems okay besides going to the surface for air every now and again he still swims around and rests in his betta log

The nitrogen cycle is really less complex than it seems.

In a cycled tank:
1) Fish constantly release ammonia into the water. Ammonia is highly toxic to fish
2) A bacteria in your filter media, consumes the ammonia in the water as it passes through the filter media.
3) This bacteria then releases nitrites into the water as it's waste product. Nitrites are also very toxic to fish,
4) A second bacteria that also lives in your filter media consumes the nitrites in the water as the water passed thru the filter media.
5) This second bacteria releases nitrates into the water as it's waste product. At low levels, nitrates are not toxic to fish.
6) Because fish constantly release ammonia, which is constantly converted into nitrites, which are constantly converted into nitrates...your nitrate levels start to build up
7) To keep the nitrates low enough so they are not toxic (under 20ppm preferred) you need to do weekly partial water changes.

But in an uncycled tank:
1) Fish release ammonia, and it builds and builds and can kill your fish.
2) After several weeks of having ammonia in the water, that ammonia consuming bacteria will start growing in your filter media. It will then start converting ammonia into nitrites.
3) After several weeks of having nitrites in the water, that second bacteria will gorw and then convert the nitrites into nitrates
4) At that point the tank would be cycled, if your fish didn't die first. If your fish die, there is no ammonia being released and the ammonia converting bacteria would starve off.

TSS is basically a bottle of that bacteria which would grow in your filter media over the course of several weeks. So you can see how TSS would really speed the process up.

Thank you for explaining, I was doing partial water changes every week but did not realize how often the filter needed to be changed. I've only done it twice since having this tank. How much tss should I be using when I change out water?

 

Really you never want to change you filter media until it is absolutely falling apart. The reason is because that is where all the bacteria that cycles your tank lives. If you change the media, you lose your cycle. But the problem with many filters if that they have carbon encapsulated inside a plastic frame with floss stretched over it. The bacteria lives in the floss. But carbon only works for about 4 weeks, then becomes saturated and needs to be replaced. So what you should do (if that's how your filter media is) is cut a slit in the floss and dump out the carbon. It's not necessary to use carbon (many members her do not use it).

You can just swish your filter media in a bucket of dirty tank water with each water change to clean it out. It will still look all brown and ugly, but that fine, so long as water can pass thru it. The reason to use dirty tank water is that if you use tap water, the chlorine in it will kill the bacteria.

 

Really you never want to change you filter media until it is absolutely falling apart. The reason is because that is where all the bacteria that cycles your tank lives. If you change the media, you lose your cycle. But the problem with many filters if that they have carbon encapsulated inside a plastic frame with floss stretched over it. The bacteria lives in the floss. But carbon only works for about 4 weeks, then becomes saturated and needs to be replaced. So what you should do (if that's how your filter media is) is cut a slit in the floss and dump out the carbon. It's not necessary to use carbon (many members her do not use it).

You can just swish your filter media in a bucket of dirty tank water with each water change to clean it out. It will still look all brown and ugly, but that fine, so long as water can pass thru it. The reason to use dirty tank water is that if you use tap water, the chlorine in it will kill the bacteria.

So I don't need the carbon part at all? Wow I wish I knew that Monday. I tossed my full filter media. Yes it is that plastic with the floss and carbon inside.

What a flawed design

 

Yeah, just cut a slit and dump the carbon. Your tank will be fine without it. I didn't use carbon in my betta tank.

Oh yeah, I keep forgetting to answer your question about whether your betta will be okay. I can't say one way or the other, but I can say that bettas can be pretty tough fish, so they is a decent chance he'll be okay.

What a flawed design

That's why I love the AquaClear Filters. They have a separate sponge, a bag of carbon and a bag of ceramic media that the bacteria lives in. So it is real easy to remove the bag of carbon and replace it.

 

He seems okay besides going to the surface for air every now and again he still swims around and rests in his betta log

Going to the surface to grab a breath of fresh air is normal for a Betta. That is how Betta's breathe so hopefully he is just doing what Betta's do.

 

Yeah, just cut a slit and dump the carbon. Your tank will be fine without it. I didn't use carbon in my betta tank.

Oh yeah, I keep forgetting to answer your question about whether your betta will be okay. I can't say one way or the other, but I can say that bettas can be pretty tough fish, so they is a decent chance he'll be okay.

Thank you, I really do hope so.

Yeah, just cut a slit and dump the carbon. Your tank will be fine without it. I didn't use carbon in my betta tank.

Oh yeah, I keep forgetting to answer your question about whether your betta will be okay. I can't say one way or the other, but I can say that bettas can be pretty tough fish, so they is a decent chance he'll be okay.


That's why I love the AquaClear Filters. They have a separate sponge, a bag of carbon and a bag of ceramic media that the bacteria lives in. So it is real easy to remove the bag of carbon and replace it.

I just looked it up on Amazon If I wanted to get a new filter in a few weeks would that mess with everything I'll have done in the tank? I've been needing a lower flow filter I currently have mine with a water bottle attached to the front as a buffer because the current is strong

Okay everyone, so I went and bought the only two bottles of prime my petsmart had and a master testing kit, my new readings are
PH 6.4
Ammonia 1.0ppm
Nitrite 2.0ppm
Nitrate 5.0ppm

 

I just looked it up on Amazon If I wanted to get a new filter in a few weeks would that mess with everything I'll have done in the tank? I've been needing a lower flow filter I currently have mine with a water bottle attached to the front as a buffer because the current is strong

As long as you move the filter media from the filter you are using now over to the new filter you should be good to go. Some bacteria grows on the inside walls of the filter housing but most of it is on the media itself.

Okay everyone, so I went and bought the only two bottles of prime my petsmart had and a master testing kit, my new readings are
PH 6.4
Ammonia 1.0ppm
Nitrite 2.0ppm
Nitrate 5.0ppm

That sounds so much better. Prime will neutralize a combined total of ammonia and nitrites up to 1 so you really need to get those 2 things down as low as you can get them with water changes. You will want to add enough prime for the full volume of your tank every 24 hours as long as you are still registering them.

If you are planning on using the Tetra Safe Start as jdhef suggested you want them as low as you can get them and then wait 24 hours after your last addition of Prime before adding the TSS. You want them as low as possible before adding TSS to keep the ammonia from overwhelming the TSS and because you aren't supposed to do water changes for 14 days to allow the bacteria to grow.

Personally I am not sure you need to go that route but of course that is up to you. The reason I am not sure you need it is because this tank has been running for quite some time so I suspect you already have a good start on the cycle (bacteria) growing in there and by keeping an eye on the perimeters and keeping up with the water changes as needed I believe this tank will cycle without adding it and putting this little guy through 14 days of no water changes.

I cannot swear to it but I think the fact that so many things were added to this tank it threw it completely out of whack and then the test strips could have made it look even worse than it actually was. I personally think ammo-lock should be taken off the market as it seems to cause a lot more problems than it solves. On top of that you were adding a product to manage the PH. Absolutely not your fault. I am sure someone told you you needed it. If your PH is in fact too low there are safer ways to raise it and keep it stable that won't affect anything else in the tank. Crushed Coral, cuttlebone and/or seashells will gradually raise it and keep it stable.

as always just my humble opinion.

 

As long as you move the filter media from the filter you are using now over to the new filter you should be good to go. Some bacteria grows on the inside walls of the filter housing but most of it is on the media itself.


That sounds so much better. Prime will neutralize a combined total of ammonia and nitrites up to 1 so you really need to get those 2 things down as low as you can get them with water changes. You will want to add enough prime for the full volume of your tank every 24 hours as long as you are still registering them.

If you are planning on using the Tetra Safe Start as jdhef suggested you want them as low as you can get them and then wait 24 hours after your last addition of Prime before adding the TSS. You want them as low as possible before adding TSS to keep the ammonia from overwhelming the TSS and because you aren't supposed to do water changes for 14 days to allow the bacteria to grow.

Personally I am not sure you need to go that route but of course that is up to you. The reason I am not sure you need it is because this tank has been running for quite some time so I suspect you already have a good start on the cycle (bacteria) growing in there and by keeping an eye on the perimeters and keeping up with the water changes as needed I believe this tank will cycle without adding it and putting this little guy through 14 days of no water changes.

I cannot swear to it but I think the fact that so many things were added to this tank it threw it completely out of whack and then the test strips could have made it look even worse than it actually was. I personally think ammo-lock should be taken off the market as it seems to cause a lot more problems than it solves. On top of that you were adding a product to manage the PH. Absolutely not your fault. I am sure someone told you you needed it. If your PH is in fact too low there are safer ways to raise it and keep it stable that won't affect anything else in the tank. Crushed Coral, cuttlebone and/or seashells will gradually raise it and keep it stable.

as always just my humble opinion.

I replied wrong before and can't figure out how to fix it sorry, how much prime should I add to my 5 gallon tank? And should I do a 50% water change again? Thank you for your opinion

 

Your pH is 6.4? You may have some trouble cycling the tank with a pH level that low. At a pH below 7.0, ammonia starts turning into ammonium. And by the time the pH gets down to 6.0, all ammonia has turned into ammonium. The good news is that ammonium is far less toxic than ammonia (some claim it is non-toxic). The bad news is that ammonium is a terrible food source for the ammonia converting bacteria. So there is a pretty good chance that the TSS bacteria will starve off and the TSS will fail.

So I would recommend raising your pH to get it to at least 7.0. The easiest way would be by putting a cuttlebone directly in the tank. They sell cuttlebones in the bird section of the fish store. Just be sure to buy a plain white one, do not get one that is flavored or colored.

But be careful with raising the pH. As it starts getting closer to 7.0, all of that non-toxic ammonium in your tank will start turning into toxic ammonia. So keep and eye on your levels and do water changes with Prime as required.

 

I replied wrong before and can't figure out how to fix it sorry, how much prime should I add to my 5 gallon tank? And should I do a 50% water change again? Thank you for your opinion

I may add a bit more than some folks because they go by drops and I go by mls. I would be adding 1/2ml of it to 5 gallons. I'm not sure how many drops that would be. A needle-less syringe is perfect for measuring it. The good thing about prime, It is hard to overdose it since even seachem recommends adding 5 times the normal dose under certain conditions.

BTW: at the bottom left of each of your posts you should see the edit button. Click on that if you need to add or change something in the message.

 

I replied wrong before and can't figure out how to fix it sorry, how much prime should I add to my 5 gallon tank? And should I do a 50% water change again? Thank you for your opinion

With Prime you only need 2 drops per gallon, but I always used 3 drops per gallon just to be on the safe side.

Yes, I would do another 50% water change with Prime. Ideally you want to keep ammonia+nitrite under 1ppm so that the Prime will fully detox them.

 

Your pH is 6.4? You may have some trouble cycling the tank with a pH level that low. At a pH below 7.0, ammonia starts turning into ammonium. And by the time the pH gets down to 6.0, all ammonia has turned into ammonium. The good news is that ammonium is far less toxic than ammonia (some claim it is non-toxic). The bad news is that ammonium is a terrible food source for the ammonia converting bacteria. So there is a pretty good chance that the TSS bacteria will starve off and the TSS will fail.

So I would recommend raising your pH to get it to at least 7.0. The easiest way would be by putting a cuttlebone directly in the tank. They sell cuttlebones in the bird section of the fish store. Just be sure to buy a plain white one, do not get one that is flavored or colored.

But be careful with raising the pH. As it starts getting closer to 7.0, all of that non-toxic ammonium in your tank will start turning into toxic ammonia. So keep and eye on your levels and do water changes with Prime as required.

Cuttlefish bone okay, this is something I wish that the people at petsmart would be required to have knowledge of. I'd much rather have been using that than the ph neutralizer that isn't even working.

 

Sadly, more often then not you get bad advice from the pet stores. But now you've discovered FishLore, you will be able to have access to good advice.

 

And sadly they always have just the thing you need (NOT) and will gladly ring you up.
We have nothing to gain other than a good feeling when we have managed to help someone such as yourself.

 

Ain't that the truth sister!

 

The levels after I just did another 50% change with spring water and prime are
PH 6.4
Ammonia 0.50ppm
Nitrite 5.0ppm
Nitrate 0ppm

 

You said earlier that your tap water is really bad. Can you clarify what that means? Now that you have a test kit will you run the tests on your tap water and post them here? That low PH will probably cause problems with cycling this tank.

If your tap water can be used and if it has a normally higher PH we can determine if it would be better to use it instead of spring water. If it is low you will need to get it up and hold it steady. As I said before this can be done naturally by adding either crushed coral, cuttlebone or real seashells. I actually run all three in my tanks because I have naturally soft tap water with a low PH.

When I was cycling my big tank a couple of years ago my nitrites went up to 5.0 To get them down and protect my fish I was doing 30% water changes every day. On the 5th day my nitrites dropped to zero and that is where they have stayed. I, of course, was using Prime and I believe it helped keep my fish safer during the nitrite spike and the whole cycling process.

All of this to say, I would be doing at least a 30% water change daily until those nitrites drop to zero and would be finding a natural way to raise and stabilize the PH a bit higher than it currently is. 7 or 7.2 would be alright although a bit higher would be OK too.

It is always a good idea to run the tests on your source water be it tap or bottled. That way you will know exactly what you are working with.

 

Unfortunately I have to go to work

You said earlier that your tap water is really bad. Can you clarify what that means? Now that you have a test kit will you run the tests on your tap water and post them here? That low PH will probably cause problems with cycling this tank.

If your tap water can be used and if it has a normally higher PH we can determine if it would be better to use it instead of spring water. If it is low you will need to get it up and hold it steady. As I said before this can be done naturally by adding either crushed coral, cuttlebone or real seashells. I actually run all three in my tanks because I have naturally soft tap water with a low PH.

When I was cycling my big tank a couple of years ago my nitrites went up to 5.0 To get them down and protect my fish I was doing 30% water changes every day. On the 5th day my nitrites dropped to zero and that is where they have stayed. I, of course, was using Prime and I believe it helped keep my fish safer during the nitrite spike and the whole cycling process.

All of this to say, I would be doing at least a 30% water change daily until those nitrites drop to zero and would be finding a natural way to raise and stabilize the PH a bit higher than it currently is. 7 or 7.2 would be alright although a bit higher would be OK too.

It is always a good idea to run the tests on your source water be it tap or bottled. That way you will know exactly what you are working with.

I've tested the PH of the tap water and it's hard to tell what it is as the color doesn't match any on the test chart. It's looking to be between 7.0-7.2 though and I was always using tap water up until petsmart told me not to on Monday but for some reason my PH always sits in the 6.5 range. But I just purchased a cuttlebone and put it in the tank and I'm about to do the daily 30%water change with prime.

 

Unfortunately I have to go to work

I've tested the PH of the tap water and it's hard to tell what it is as the color doesn't match any on the test chart. It's looking to be between 7.0-7.2 though and I was always using tap water up until petsmart told me not to on Monday but for some reason my PH always sits in the 6.5 range. But I just purchased a cuttlebone and put it in the tank and I'm about to do the daily 30%water change with prime.

If your tap water is at or close to 7 and you have no or very low levels of ammonia, nitrite or nitrates in it I can see no reason not to use it. I really don't understand why they told you not to use it. I don't understand a lot of their recommendations though.

We can know for sure if you run the tests on it when you have a chance to do so. The cuttlebone should help stabilize the PH. It isn't going to happen instantly like it would if one adds chemicals but it will help raise the hardness thus help keep the PH stable. Stable is better than a specific number. I have soft water so a naturally low PH. The coral, cuttlebone and seashells keep mine at a stable 7.2. Without them it drops down to the 6.8 that comes out of my tap.