I found out how Prime works. It’s on the back label.

This is how Prime works (and all de-chlorinators):

Has anyone read the entire label on the back of a bottle of Prime? I did, finally.

Reading the back label, Prime works by performing water changes and using your aquariums bio filter to remove ammonia, nitrite and nitrates.

Seachem Prime on the front label says the following:
***
Concentrated Conditioner for Marine and Freshwater. Removes Chlorine and Chloramine.
Detoxifies Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate.
***
However, did anyone read how it does this? It’s right on the back label.

First the directions: Easy, just change and add your water and add the amount of Prime it says.
***
For exceptionally high Chloramine concentrations a double dose may be used safely. To detoxify nitrite in an emergency, up to 5 times normal dose may be used. If temperature is > 86F and chlorine or ammonia levels are low, use a half dose.

Note the detoxify word above.

Now let’s read the left side of the label.

Prime is a complete and concentrated conditioner for both fresh and salt water. Prime removes chlorine, chloramine and detoxifies ammonia. Prime converts ammonia into safe, non toxic form that is removed by the tanks’s biofilter. Prime may be used during tank cycling to alleviate ammonia/nitrite toxicity. Prime detoxifies nitrite and nitrate allowing the bio filter to more efficiently remove them. It will also detoxify heavy metals found in tap water at typical concentration levels. Prime is non-acidic and will not overactive skimmers. Use at start up and whenever adding or replacing water.
****

So all the above is true as long as you follow the directions whenever adding or replacing water. But when you add or replace water, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are all REMOVED with the percentage of water changed. Assuming you perform a 50% water change, your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate would be removed by 50%. Of course heavy metals would be removed too with a water change. This would be normal for all water changes.

Detoxifying is done in the tanks biofilter. Yes, that is where your aerobic bacteria is used to perform oxidation to remove ammonia and then it naturally converts it to nitrite and then to nitrate. This would be normal for all filters with good media.

The presence of nitrite in an aquarium generally indicates an aquarium which is cycling. If you have high chlorine/chloramines this could kill your filter bacteria, so of course you would want to dose up to 5X the amount of Prime. You want to stop this fast in a cycling aquarium. You can add up to 5X the amount in the presence of high nitrites only. This would be normal for all aquarium filters with good media.

Your tanks biofilter is doing all the work to remove (detoxify) ammonia. Prime never says anything about protecting any fish in the aquarium at any time. But performing a water change protects the fish because the ammonia, nitrite or nitrates are removed! Wow, imagine that.

Use at start up and whenever adding or replacing water. Never by itself.

There is nothing magic about Prime. Go ahead and replace the word Prime above with ‘any de-chlorinator’ and the exact same processes are done.

So does Prime detoxify ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? Yes it does and so do all water conditioners on the market by simple water changes and the media in your filter.

All de-chlorinators do the same thing regardless of price.

And now we know…

 

You are on a roll lately! So tell us. Who really killed Kennedy?

 

It says it detoxifies it WHILE YOUR BIOFILTER REMOVES IT.

Nowhere does it say the BB in your filter does the detoxifying.

The way I interpret what is said on the bottle is that yes...your biofolter is responsible for removing the ammonia and nitrites. But prime will detoxify it in the mean time. If, for instance, the tank is still cycling or you have ammonia in your tap like I do.

 

It says it detoxifies it WHILE YOUR BIOFILTER REMOVES IT.

Nowhere does it say the BB in your filter does the detoxifying.

The way I interpret what is said on the bottle is that yes...your biofolter is responsible for removing the ammonia and nitrites. But prime will detoxify it in the mean time. If, for instance, the tank is still cycling or you have ammonia in your tap like I do.

Seachem does not says that but its pretty much assumed your biofilter is full of BB and removes the products. Detoxify just means cleanse but scientists and health organizations have criticized the concept of detoxification for its unsound scientific basis and for the lack of evidence for claims made. You can find that on the internet yourself.

Only takes minutes for the water to go through your filter to do it's job.

Have a great day.

 

Agree^^ I think it says to use only when adding new water because you don't want that stuff building up in the water (as a precaution for newbies that might just keep dosing instead of changing out water).

It detoxifies chloramines (chlorine plus ammonia) which means it keeps it in a safe state for up 48hrs. Then the bio filter processes the ammonia in a safe state and converts it to nitrate eventually.

Personally I use salt to detoxify nitrites, or I water change until nitrites are down to 0.5ppm and I can more easily detoxify without using a ridiculous amount of Prime. I mean, they are chemicals right?

It says it detoxifies it WHILE YOUR BIOFILTER REMOVES IT.

Nowhere does it say the BB in your filter does the detoxifying.

The way I interpret what is said on the bottle is that yes...your biofolter is responsible for removing the ammonia and nitrites. But prime will detoxify it in the mean time. If, for instance, the tank is still cycling or you have ammonia in your tap like I do.

Seachem does not says that but its pretty much assumed your biofilter is full of BB and removes the products. Detoxify just means cleanse but scientists and health organizations have criticized the concept of detoxification for its unsound scientific basis and for the lack of evidence for claims made. You can find that on the internet yourself.

Only takes minutes for the water to go through your filter to do it's job.

Have a great day.

Also agree, not sure how Prime detoxifies, you would think it converts ammonia to ammonium, but I think it's something else that they do not disclose. Again, something they don't disclose. Just like all the other aquarium miracle products. So frustrating. I guess you could trust it seeing the effects in your fish or try not using it and see what effect it has, but I won't.

Also, I think some folks are using too much of it. I mean, considering ammonia/ium is not even toxic enough until high temps and high pH comes into play. I know you know.

But i'm too scared (I admit) not to use it to detoxify my chlorine. I believe water changes (diluting) should be the number 1 method of removing toxins and keeping fish safe.

 

It detoxifies chloramines (chlorine plus ammonia) which means it keeps it in a safe state for up 48hrs. Then the bio filter processes the ammonia in a safe state and converts it to nitrate eventually.

Very easy. Put in Prime because you have 1 ppm ammonia. Change 50% of water. Ammonia is now .5 ppm. And if your filter is good and has good media the ammonia is gone magically at 0 real quick, in hours.

 

Only takes minutes for the water to go through your filter to do it's job.

No. That's false. The biofilter does not eat up .5 ammonia (my tap) in minutes!! Lol it's more like 12-18 hours. On very very well established filters. I guess it also depends on how large the water change was.

You are so passionate about this Lol.
And I've said all along that I'm skeptical. I don't have proof one way or another. And I admit that. And going around in circles is just silly!!!

I was done with this conversation. Until I saw you somewhat misinterpret their label. So I couldnt help but to clarify.

Whether it is true or not is not what I'm getting at here.

 

No. That's false. The biofilter does not eat up .5 ammonia (my tap) in minutes!! Lol it's more like 12-18 hours. On very very well established filters.

You are so passionate about this Lol.
And I've said all along that I'm skeptical. I don't have proof one way or another. And I admit that. And going around in circles is just silly!!!

I was done with this conversation. Until I saw you somewhat misinterpret their label. So I couldnt help but to clarify.

Whether it is true or not is not what I'm getting at here.

OK, that's fine. But I have a lot of fish in my tanks. I check for ammonia and I never have any. Where does the ammonia go? Oxidized very quickly.

Edit - This assuming you have efficient media in your filter where the water flows through the media and not around it.

 

OK, that's fine. But I have a lot of fish in my tanks. I check for ammonia and I never have any. Where does the ammonia go? Oxidized very quickly.

And I am going to choose to believe that the reason my angelfish fry are not showing any signs of stress after 50-75% water changes with tap at .5ppm ammonia....is because the prime is protecting them WHILE my biofilter removes the ammonia.

I guess you could say I have "faith" that it's doing was it says it will do. Since it's not completely prove-able.

And my choosing to have faith in it should not be looked down upon.

 

No. That's false. The biofilter does not eat up .5 ammonia (my tap) in minutes!! Lol it's more like 12-18 hours. On very very well established filters. I guess it also depends on how large the water change was.

That's fine. That amount of ammonia will not kill your fish. Probably will not have any long term effects. Ammonia poisoning may never show up, but some damage may have been done.

 

Are we talking about only ammonia? I thought chloramines were a bond of chlorine and ammonia. Do you have chlorine in your source water?

Very easy. Put in Prime because you have 1 ppm ammonia. Change 50% of water. Ammonia is now .5 ppm. And if your filter is good and has good media the ammonia is gone magically at 0 real quick, in hours.

Unless you have ammonia in your tap water. BTW, not wanting to argue, I appreciate all the info you have figured out and shared.

 

Are we talking about only ammonia? I thought chloramines were a bond of chlorine and ammonia. Do you have chlorine in your source water?

Unless you have ammonia in your tap water. BTW, not wanting to argue, I appreciate all the info you have figured out and shared.

Chlorine only. According to the water report from my county, only .2 ppm. But can go up to maybe .5 ppm but who knows how much.

 

OK, that's fine. But I have a lot of fish in my tanks. I check for ammonia and I never have any. Where does the ammonia go? Oxidized very quickly.

There is a difference between the ammonia the fish produce and water with ammonia in it being used for water changes. I never see an ammonia reading in any of my tanks either but that is because the fish are constantly adding tiny amounts and there is enough bacteria to keep it cleaned up. When one dumps water with ammonia in it there is a big rush of ammonia all at once. It takes longer for the bacteria to clean that amount up.

Again I will say, if a tank is cycled and there is never a rise in ammonia any of the many water conditioner will work just fine.

 

There is a difference between the ammonia the fish produce and water with ammonia in it being used for water changes.

I have not found any evidence of that. The chemical equations are identical. However, I am willing to view that information to prove you accurate.

 

Detoxification, as I understand it, temporarily changes the chemical composition of ammonia and nitrite molecules to a form that's less harmful to fish. Either by "binding" molecules of ammonia and nitrite to whatever is in prime, which is unstable and can't permanently stay in this state, or possibly by reducing ammonia and nitrite to harmless nitrogen gas or a non-toxic organic nitrogen compound, which would be permanent but still appear temporary because more ammonia is constantly being introduced to a tank. Obviously in neither scenario is it okay to add large volumes of prime without ever changing water, as it's a temporary solution that can be toxic in high concentrations.

Your claim that all conditioners have this property is clearly false, every conditioner would say it detoxifies ammonia if that was the case in order to sell better.

I don't really know why you made a post titled like a clickbait article because you finally read the back of the prime bottle. I doubt this is some grand conspiracy.

 

I have not found any evidence of that. The chemical equations are identical. However, I am willing to view that information to prove you accurate.

I'm sorry, I didn't word that well. The ammonia isn't necessarily different. The amount added is different. Fish are adding it constantly and the bacteria cleans it up almost instantly. When a large amount of it is added all at once it takes longer for the bacteria to clean it up is what I was trying to say.

 

I have not found any evidence of that. The chemical equations are identical. However, I am willing to view that information to prove you accurate.

??????
NH3 and NH2Cl are two different molecules, ammonia and chloramine are different.

 

Your claim that all conditioners have this property is clearly false, every conditioner would say it detoxifies ammonia if that was the case in order to sell better.

That's the issue. Even Seachem says they have no idea how it does what it does. But they put a good spin on it. Yet the 'invented' Prime. All the other manufacturers are telling the truth because they know just changing water and having it go though your filter is the why it works. Simple.

??????
NH3 and NH2Cl are two different molecules, ammonia and chloramine are different.

Sorry, we were just talking fish ammonia vs. ammonia. I don't think it makes any difference.

 

That's the issue. Even Seachem says they have no idea how it does what it does. But they put a good spin on it. Yet the 'invented' Prime. All the other manufacturers are telling the truth because they know just changing water and having it go though your filter is the why it works. Simple.

I will agree with one point you are making. Even I don't agree with them when they say it affects nitrites and nitrates. They only say that because so many folks claimed it helped. That is not proof enough for me. It was designed to detox ammonia, period. That is the only thing I recommend it for.

I'm sorry, I didn't word that well. The ammonia isn't necessarily different. The amount added is different. Fish are adding it constantly and the bacteria cleans it up almost instantly. When a large amount of it is added all at once it takes longer for the bacteria to clean it up is what I was trying to say.

Sorry, we were just talking fish ammonia vs. ammonia. I don't think it makes any difference.

I quoted my last reply for you just in case you missed it

 

I'm sorry, I didn't word that well. The ammonia isn't necessarily different. The amount added is different. Fish are adding it constantly and the bacteria cleans it up almost instantly. When a large amount of it is added all at once it takes longer for the bacteria to clean it up is what I was trying to say.

Ah, OK understand. But reading your answers on cycling tanks you say that 2 ppm should be reduced to 0 ppm in less than 24 hours. That's pretty fast. If you have less it's faster right?

 

That is not proof enough for me. It was designed to detox ammonia, period. That is the only thing I recommend it for.

That's fine. I suggest you email Seachem (or call) and ask them how it does this. Make sure you mention that Prime is a reducer and ammonia can only be removed by an oxidizer. The two are mutually exclusive and you can not have both.

I'm intrigued that nobody has contacted Seachem about this except myself. Problem is Seachem support answers email from a script and they talk from a script also. I know, been there done that. I live 2 hours from their one and only headquarters.

 

Ah, OK understand. But reading your answers on cycling tanks you say that 2 ppm should be reduced to 0 ppm in less than 24 hours. That's pretty fast. If you have less it's faster right?

Yes, If one has grown a strong colony of bacteria it should be able to process 2, 3 or even 4 ppm ammonia within 24 hours. The amount of time it takes to process the ammonia depends on how big the colony of bacteria is. The more ammonia added the bigger the colony of bacteria there will be. Kinda like an explosion of snails. The more food you feed them the more snails you will have.

When fishless cycling all the ammonia is added all at one time so takes longer to process. When fish in cycling just tiny amounts are added but are constantly being added. The colony of bacteria will just grow as big as the amount of ammonia produced will support.

 

Don't need to email Seachem when we have a detailed answer from a thread on monsterfishkeeping,


The rest of this thread has basically been pure speculation, this seems to prove that although the reducing agent that prime has isn't unique to Seachem, it is separate from the basic water conditioner chemicals that eliminate chlorine and chloramine.

 

Yes, If one has grown a strong colony of bacteria it should be able to process 2, 3 or even 4 ppm ammonia within 24 hours.

Great. So 4 ppm can go to 0 ppm in less than 24 hours depending on your filter and media assuming your BB is good. Just like I said. Thanks.

 

That's fine. I suggest you email Seachem (or call) and ask them how it does this. Make sure you mention that Prime is a reducer and ammonia can only be removed by an oxidizer. The two are mutually exclusive and you can not have both.

I'm intrigued that nobody has contacted Seachem about this except myself. Problem is Seachem support answers email from a script and they talk from a script also. I know, been there done that. I live 2 hours from their one and only headquarters.

I will be perfectly honest with you. I choose to trust what I have been experiencing. I don't need someone on the other end of the line following a script to answer my questions. That is the main reason I have not contacted them. I feel sure I would just be told what I can and have already read on their question and answer pages. I know it is sometimes difficult but sometimes we have to just choose to have faith in a product. I have faith that this product does the one thing I recommend it for.

They are not obliged to tell me their trade secrets. If they did that they would be giving away the store and I don't believe that would be a good business practice.

Great. So 4 ppm can go to 0 ppm in less than 24 hours depending on your filter and media assuming your BB is good. Just like I said. Thanks.

I am not sure what point this proves.

 

That's fine. I suggest you email Seachem (or call) and ask them how it does this. Make sure you mention that Prime is a reducer and ammonia can only be removed by an oxidizer. The two are mutually exclusive and you can not have both.

Prime has never claimed to reduce ammonia. Stop saying reduce. Theres a huge difference!!

 

I will be perfectly honest with you. I choose to trust what I have been experiencing. I don't need someone on the other end of the line following a script to answer my questions. That is the main reason I have not contacted them. I feel sure I would just be told what I can and have already read on their question and answer pages. I know it is sometimes difficult but sometimes we have to just choose to have faith in a product. I have faith that this product does the one thing I recommend it for.

They are not obliged to tell me their trade secrets. If they did that they would be giving away the store and I don't believe that would be a good business practice.

I am not sure what point this proves.

And that is just fine. I agree. But remember Seachem has no patents on any of their products, that I can find. I contacted them and they could not provide any patent numbers that I could look up. Strange...

 

I think Seachem is trying to say that it detoxifies nitrite and nitrate the same way it detoxifies ammonia.

 

Prime has never claimed to reduce ammonia. Stop saying reduce. Theres a huge difference!!

Correct! Prime can only reduce chlorine and chloramine to 0 ppm! Ammonia must be oxidized. Thank you!

 

Correct! Prime can only reduce chlorine and chloramine to 0 ppm! Ammonia must be oxidized. Thank you!

What are you arguing? No one on this forum thinks that prime gets rid of ammonia, that's why everyone says "detoxify".

 

What are you arguing? No one on this forum thinks that prime gets rid of ammonia, that's why everyone says "detoxify".

And it simply 'detoxifies' ammonia by a simple water change and using the biofilter to 'remove' the ammonia like the instructions state.

 

And it simply 'detoxifies' ammonia by a simple water change and using the biofilter to 'remove' the ammonia like the instructions state.

Can you not see the difference? If one gets an ammonia reading it means their bacteria isn't strong enough or not enough of it to process all of the ammonia almost immediately. Prime keeps that ammonia in a safer form while allowing the bacteria to grow in numbers and do its job.

 

And it simply 'detoxifies' ammonia by a simple water change and using the biofilter to 'remove' the ammonia like the instructions state.

What does this even mean? A "simple" water change doesn't detoxify anything, it just reduces the amount of ammonia. If you use prime, which contains a REDUCING agent that prefers to target things like ammonia and nitrites, the remaining ammonia is also temporarily detoxified.

 

Your claim that all conditioners have this property is clearly false, every conditioner would say it detoxifies ammonia if that was the case in order to sell better.

Seachem marketing is willing to stretch the truth more than others though.

That's fine. I suggest you email Seachem (or call) and ask them how it does this. Make sure you mention that Prime is a reducer and ammonia can only be removed by an oxidizer. The two are mutually exclusive and you can not have both.

Prime can have more than one ingredient though. They kind of hint as much when they say they added a binder for ammonia and because they used to have separate ChlorGuard and AmGuard which I thought could be the separate ingredients.

I'm almost certainly going to test these claims with daphnia later this year. Might as well nitrite and nitrate and all the other dechlorinators that claim to neutralize more than chlorine.

That means AmQuel, AmQuel+, Ammo-lock, Fritz Complete, aquavitro alpha, and HikarI Ultimate, Am I missing anyone?

But wait, while I'm at it I might as well test at different concentrations to see which is more effective.

 

And it simply 'detoxifies' ammonia by a simple water change and using the biofilter to 'remove' the ammonia like the instructions state.

A water change would lower it.

The biofilter removes it.

And prime detoxifies it in the mean time.

Three different things.

I don't understand what you are not getting here.

The label does not say a water change detoxifies it.

The label does not say prime removes it.

The label says prime detoxifies ammonia while your biofilter removes it. (To sum it up)

Whether or not you BELIEVE IT is one thing. But you are 100% misinterpreting it!

 

A water change would lower it.

The biofilter removes it.

And prime detoxifies it in the mean time.

Three different things.

I don't understand what you are not getting here.

The label does not say a water change detoxifies it.

The label does not say prime removes it.

The label says prime detoxifies ammonia while your biofilter removes it. (To sum it up)

Whether or not you BELIEVE IT is one thing. But you are 100% misinterpreting it!

It's called Wordsmithing. I also have some doiophenteic opliods that increase my gas mileage by 22%.

 

Seachem marketing is willing to stretch the truth more than others though.

There are tons of other aquarium companies that sell reducing agents, the head representative quoted above admits this, they are effective but not permanent solutions to an uncycled tank. The difference is that the OP of this thread makes the claim that it's the same as other conditioners, which is completely false. Other companies just sell normal conditioner that removes chlorine and chloramine, and sell a separate reducing agent, while prime contains both. It's misleading and could lead someone reading the post to believe that tetra aquasafe contains a reducing agent for ammonia and such.

It's called Wordsmithing. I also have some doiophenteic opliods that increase my gas mileage by 22%.

Your idea that Seachem is some super dishonest company making up complete lies to sell their dechlor while also apparently leaving hints on the back of the bottle that they are lying doesn't make much sense. I, as well as many others have used prime to help in emergencies and during cycling to reduce stress on fish to great effect

 

Seachem marketing is willing to stretch the truth more than others though.



Prime can have more than one ingredient though. They kind of hint as much when they say they added a binder for ammonia and because they used to have separate ChlorGuard and AmGuard which I thought could be the separate ingredients.

I'm almost certainly going to test these claims with daphnia later this year. Might as well nitrite and nitrate and all the other dechlorinators that claim to neutralize more than chlorine.

That means AmQuel, AmQuel+, Ammo-lock, Fritz Complete, aquavitro alpha, and HikarI Ultimate, Am I missing anyone?

But wait, while I'm at it I might as well test at different concentrations to see which is more effective.

Test these! Test these!

Seachem Prime
Seachem Safe
Seachem KanaPlex
Seachem Metroplex
Seachem Matrix
Seachem De*Nitrate
Seachem Stability
Seachem AmGuard
Seachem Purigen
Seachem Flourish
Seachem Flourish Excel
Seachem Pristine

Really anybody... anybody please show proof that any of the above products do what the say from and independent laboratory test, web site on the internet or even any test on the Seachem web site.

 

There are tons of other aquarium companies that sell reducing agents, the head representative quoted above admits this, they are effective but not permanent solutions to an uncycled tank. The difference is that the OP of this thread makes the claim that it's the same as other conditioners, which is completely false. Other companies just sell normal conditioner that removes chlorine and chloramine, and sell a separate reducing agent, while prime contains both. It's misleading and could lead someone reading the post to believe that tetra aquasafe contains a reducing agent for ammonia and such.

Again though.....prime does not claim to REDUCE ammonia. It doesn't call itself an ammonia reducer.

There is a big difference so I don't know why that word keeps getting used. "Temporarily detoxify" and "remove" are much different things.

 

Your idea that Seachem is some super dishonest company making up complete lies to sell their dechlor while also apparently leaving hints on the back of the bottle that they are lying doesn't make much sense. I, as well as many others have used prime to help in emergencies and during cycling to reduce stress on fish to great effect

Never said they were dishonest. Just want proof that what the say is true. Is that too much to ask? Again, how does Prime help in emergencies when you just have to do a 50% water change and have your filter oxidate the ammonia. You have bought into the hype.