I believe I'm dealing with old tank syndrome

I have had my tank for about 2.5years, everything was good until we added new fish(guppies are staying alive, clown pleco we have 3 that have passed) nitrates were high 40-50(one point higher when the first died) i did 50% water change got nitrates down and continue to take 1-2 gallons out of a 20 gal daily. Still showing 0 nitrites but ammonia keeps climbing it will be .25 after water change and the next day progress to .5 now its showing 1ppm(i have been using prime and cut back feeding) been dealing with it about 3 weeks now and testing water daily. I have the seachem ammonia alert and it shows 0 for toxic. Api is the one showing a 1ppm as of last night. Ph 6.6, kh 0-40, gh 150(have seen it at 300 we have very hard water anyway) i have guppies glow fish and rasboras. Already added a bigger filter based on what i read here, running tetra whisper for 50gal, 2 bubble stones. I have one guppy that isn't doing well with the water changes she's been laying low since the last 50% change 3 days ago, she does come out to eat but then back to the bottom corner or back of the tank. Any advice to get this straightened up?
EDIT TO ADD THE GLOW FISH DO NOT BOTHER THE GUPPIES THEY WILL NIP AND CHASE EACH OTHER JUST NOT THE OTHER FISH ‍♀️ i know alot of people say they will fin nip but I haven't had any issues in about a year of having guppies

 

I have to ask. How often were you doing water changes? How much were you changing each time before all of this started?

Old tank syndrome really doesn't happen just because a tank has been up and running for a long time. There are things that build up in our tanks that most of us don't test for. If we don't do regular water changes to keep them diluted those thing will eventually get to a point to where it starts affecting our fish.

Has your pH always been this low? Has it gone lower than that? You posted 0-40 for your kh. Does it fluctuate that much? Bacteria struggles to clean up ammonia when the pH drops well below 7. The good thing is, normally the ammonia with a pH that low isn't as dangerous as it would be if the pH was much higher. Getting the pH up should get the bacteria working again.

The small water changes you are doing right now really aren't going to help much if at all. If I saw an ammonia reading of 1ppm I would change out at least half of the water to get it down to .50ppm. As long as you temp match and add your water conditioner to the fresh water before pouring it in the tank big water changes won't hurt anything and quite often help.
.

 

Not very often went 2months without a change just cleaned gravel and topped off the tank, yes ph is always this low the type of fish i have prefer 6.4-6.6 ph. I used a test strip to test kh it was mainly yellow(0) but had green(40) in the middle..its been staying at 40 that last couple days. I did do 50% water change when the ammonia showed a 1. water was between .25 and .5 ammonia wise for about 12-16 hrs and started going up did another 50% change last night but now i have 3 out of 5 guppies laying around in the bottom/corners they do eat which I've cut back amount and down to once a day plus skip days

 

I am going to call A201 I am no good at determining fish illnesses. It is very possible something was building up in your water over time and finally got high enough to start affecting your fish. By changing out half the water after going so long without changing any may have affected your little guys.

Is this a planted tank? If so the plants may have been helping keep the water in better shape and I may be way off base but in my humble opinion the very best thing we can do for our water pets to keep them healthy is keep them in fresh clean water. Personally I change out 50% of the water in my tanks every week. And then once a month change out even more. I truly believe it is for this reason I've never had to deal with any kind of disease in any of my tanks.

 

IMO, no such thing as old tank syndrome. My 65 gal. has been up & running 22 yrs. & my 120 gal. is going on 8 yrs.
I know this is going to sound counter productive, but stop doing gravel vacs. If you are careful not to overfeed, and there is at least two inches of substrate (three inches or more is better) the BB in the gravel or sand will take care of the bio gunk & keep the nitrates down.
In smaller tanks (any tank under 75 gal.) a weekly 50% WC is a good idea. Tends to prevent a lot of maladies.
Bigger tanks are usually more forgiving reference stable water parameters, but still require at least a 30% - 40% weekly WC.
Depend on disease prevention, achieved by effective water management, rather than meds.
Use meds as a last resort & stay away from antibiotics. They rarely cure fish, wreak havoc on an aquarium environment & are systematically being banned for aquarium use.
Hope things get better soon.

 

Thank you A201

Vickie123 You may want to fill out the sick fish template and start another thread. Personally I have to think this started because of the water conditions. It is possible simple water changes will stop what is happening though. Almost everything we read about every day can be tracked back to water conditions unless something has been brought in by adding new fish.

If you've not added any new fish lately it is possible now that water conditions have improved the deaths will stop. We can only hope too much damage hasn't already been done. At this point all we can do is keep the water clean and hope.

 

Also, if you have plastic decor, they trap a lot of debris that settles before the filter can pick it up. If they're not jostled every once in a while (like during water changes), they can be harboring a lot of things causing issues. Also, if you have live plants, check for decaying material. If you don't have any little cleaners like snails or shimp, I would look into getting some to help out.

 

6.6 pH and low/0 kH. Ammonia (ammonium) is non (less) toxic at low ph so the alert won't go off, but the bacteria cannot thrive to convert it either. Why such low pH/kH?

mattgirl , she is using ppm to express the kH so it's only a variance of roughly 2 degrees. Allot of tanks can burn 2 degrees in a week or 2.

Vickie123 , can you set out a cup of your water change water for a few hours, then test it and post results? If you have low kH like I do out of the tap, you may have to buffer it up a bit (can do it mid water change schedule if you want to keep the ph at/just below 7). I get about 2 degrees each kH/gH and in my better producing higher stocked tanks I have to use potassium bicarbonate to keep the kH numbers up, I also have to use a calcium, and a magnesium buffer to keep the gH balanced or I get deficiencies. If you are on a city water system is always possible that something has crept just a little and what used to work just barely and perfect is a touch too filtered out now. If you have a water softener that got replaced or something that may also impact the balance.

 

I am going to call A201 I am no good at determining fish illnesses. It is very possible something was building up in your water over time and finally got high enough to start affecting your fish. By changing out half the water after going so long without changing any may have affected your little guys.

Is this a planted tank? If so the plants may have been helping keep the water in better shape and I may be way off base but in my humble opinion the very best thing we can do for our water pets to keep them healthy is keep them in fresh clean water. Personally I change out 50% of the water in my tanks every week. And then once a month change out even more. I truly believe it is for this reason I've never had to deal with any kind of disease in any of my tanks.

No it is not a planted tank. When i was keeping up with weekly changes i did 25% since I noticed the high nirates(believe thats what killed the clown plecos) i did 50% change(2wks ago)then continued to do 2gal every day (Simply because it said on here some where to do small changes daily) Ammonia went up to 1 ppm so I did another 50%(4days ago, guppy didn't like it) did another 50% change the other night( 2 guppies still not happy, was 3 out of 5 but one snapped back today)

6.6 pH and low/0 kH. Ammonia (ammonium) is non (less) toxic at low ph so the alert won't go off, but the bacteria cannot thrive to convert it either. Why such low pH/kH?

mattgirl , she is using ppm to express the kH so it's only a variance of roughly 2 degrees. Allot of tanks can burn 2 degrees in a week or 2.

Vickie123 , can you set out a cup of your water change water for a few hours, then test it and post results? If you have low kH like I do out of the tap, you may have to buffer it up a bit (can do it mid water change schedule if you want to keep the ph at/just below 7). I get about 2 degrees each kH/gH and in my better producing higher stocked tanks I have to use potassium bicarbonate to keep the kH numbers up, I also have to use a calcium, and a magnesium buffer to keep the gH balanced or I get deficiencies. If you are on a city water system is always possible that something has crept just a little and what used to work just barely and perfect is a touch too filtered out now. If you have a water softener that got replaced or something that may also impact the balance.

Ph has always been that low in the tank. my tap ph is round 7.2 after sitting out with bubble stone for 24hr even with 50% water change it comes up to 6.8 in the tank but a day sometimes 2 its back down to 6.6..had it down to 6.4 when nirates were high fish kinda Mopey went back up to 6.8 and been steady 6.6 for about 2wks(fish happy more active, tried ph up to bring it to a 7 and they went back to mopey, once it cleared and ph went back to 6.6 good again) guppies are not liking the water changes the glofish and rasboras are fine/acting normal. Never thought to check tap water after a few hours(i did check ph, nirite, nirate, ammonia with api kit, just got strips to test kh/gh a few days ago) just learned to leave it out before testing recently. I will post results of that shortly! I did add seachem stability for 2wk( rather than just the 7 days when adding the clown pleco and guppies which are still fairly new only had them about a month)

Also, if you have plastic decor, they trap a lot of debris that settles before the filter can pick it up. If they're not jostled every once in a while (like during water changes), they can be harboring a lot of things causing issues. Also, if you have live plants, check for decaying material. If you don't have any little cleaners like snails or shimp, I would look into getting some to help out.

I do have plastic decor and move them when i vacuum, no plants

Thank you A201

Vickie123 You may want to fill out the sick fish template and start another thread. Personally I have to think this started because of the water conditions. It is possible simple water changes will stop what is happening though. Almost everything we read about every day can be tracked back to water conditions unless something has been brought in by adding new fish.

If you've not added any new fish lately it is possible now that water conditions have improved the deaths will stop. We can only hope too much damage hasn't already been done. At this point all we can do is keep the water clean and hope.

I agree most definitely water conditions from me not be able to change frequentl. New fish added about a month ago. ive got everything fairly good just cant figure out what to do to get the ammonia converted and out. I mean testing every day for a month and not one single time have i had nitrites, ammonia has been present since i added the new fish, couple days its spiked(normal added bioload) but it still climbs and only goes down with water changes. I have some tetra safe start but every thing ive read says not to do water changes after adding for a little while( i cant skip the water change for 2 days without getting ammonia reading of .5 or higher( stays at .25 after water change but only about 24hr then its back up)

20 gal tank, gravel about 2.5-3in deep. I've already cut back vacuum as well. last time and only time i used general cure was 1yr ago when we got the first set of guppies they were flashing?(rubbing against things to the point of sore spots) had a common pleco who started eating them! so we rehomed pleco and got more guppies and a smaller pleco( 3 have died 1 definitely from high nitrates, others make it til water change day(yes i match temperature and add prime)

 

Ph 6.8, kh did the same as tank water yellow(0) outside green(40) in the middle(green spot bigger though), cholrine .8, nirate 0, nirite 0, gh darker than 150 but not as dark as 300. Temp stays at 78 never added that info for you guys!

 

It might be worth it to give the TSS a shot. The good thing about your pH being so low is the fact that the ammonia you are seeing isn't as toxic as it would be if it was much higher. The bad thing though is the bacteria in it still may not thrive.

What I would do though is get the pH up to at least 7 so the ammonia you are seeing can be eaten by the bacteria. You can get your pH up simply be adding crushed coral to your tank. It will raise and stabilize your pH up to the level of your tap water. It will raise the pH in the tank very slowly over 2 or 3 days so isn't going to harm your fish. Put a handful of it in a media bag and situate it in your filter. If it won't fit in there put it where water is running over and through it.

I know you said you have fish that need the lower pH but you have to balance that need to the needs of your bacteria. The bacteria is struggling.

 

The majority of fish available today are raised in hatcheries, in water with parameters far different from their wild ancestors.
Most aquarium fish can adapt to a wide range of water parameters. IMO, unless a keeper is attempting to set up a breeding operation with a particularly fragile & demanding species, there's really no need to adjust water parameters.
I agree that it's a good idea to include a bit of crushed coral or limestone in an aquarium as to buffer the parameters against a PH crash. It's been my experience that the slight boost in PH has no negative effects on most species.

 

Already ordered some crushed coral will have it in a few days, i will post back after i add it and its been in for a couple days! Thanks everyone

 

For information purposes, what substrate are you using?

 

just plain aquarium gravel my pic is my tank
Also wanted to add, all guppies are acting normal today, havent check water parameters yet im a night owl and do everything late lol

 

i did a 50% water change Saturday and added 1-1.5 cups crushed coral, pH is steady at 6.8(added a lil more coral today) added tetra safe start Monday and today I got ammonia reading of 0! Kh still staying around 40, a little less as there is still a trace of yellow on strip(need to get a liquid test, didn't know they made one until after i got strips lol)

 

i did a 50% water change Saturday and added 1-1.5 cups crushed coral, pH is steady at 6.8(added a lil more coral today) added tetra safe start Monday and today I got ammonia reading of 0! Kh still staying around 40, a little less as there is still a trace of yellow on strip(need to get a liquid test, didn't know they made one until after i got strips lol)

Thank you for the update. This is very good news. Now that you will be able to keep the pH up I don't think you will experience any more problems like this. I would try to make a point of changing out 50% of the water at the very least every other week but can't over stress the importance of keeping the water fresh and clean. If at all possible every week would be better. By doing so we never have to worry about anything bad building up in the water. Our fish will bless us with long healthy lives if we keep their water clean.

We don't want to over clean our filter or all the surfaces in our tanks but we do want to keep the water clean.