I almost killed my Kois Help 

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MISTRAL

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Hi,

I got myself a new 65 lt tank for a pair of angelfishs. Along with the angels, I also bought a couple of baby Kois about 2" long each. I bought them to add a little color to the aquarium housing 4 tinfoil barbs almost of the same size as the Kois. No sooner had I introduced the Kois, the Barbs sprang upon them like a pack of Pirhanas.

I almost immidiately managed to take the Kois out (I was lucky I had the net nearby) and transfer them to the new tank housing the angelfishes. One of the Kois lay still for a long time and gradually about half an hour later turned belly up gasping and lay on the bottom of the tank (see pict). The shock of the tinfoil attack must have been too much for the poor soul I thought I was losing him and with a heavy heart and sense of guilt was contemplating euthanasia when suddenly I saw it upright itself, go for a pellet of food that was sinking, gulp it and then slowing again turn belly up. This kept repeating and I thought I'll give it a chance till the next morning. This has continued for three days now and the KoI has stabilised, it rests and swims upright now. I thanked myself for not jumping the gun. However since yesterday (5 days since the episode), I have noticed some white spots appear on its lateral side.
This morning I found its eyes completely coverd with the white stuff and I fear a few more spots developing near its tail too. I've posted a picture here. I guess this could be a fungus infestation at the places of injury. As a emergency tmt, I have added abt 5 tsps of sodium chloride (Common Salt)along with 10 ml of yellow liquid (I do not know the chemical composition but local aquarists call it yellow liquid which when put in the aquarium, turns the water color fluroscent greenish yellow) supposed to be a remedy for white spots.

Was wondering if some one could suggest an antibiotic? The unheated normal water temperature is already 80deg F(abt 30degC) so was also wondering if it would be wise raising it any higher with the heater.

The other KoI and the angel fishes however, look normal.

Thanx for suggestions.
 

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Aquarist

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Good morning,

Sorry to hear about your experience and sick Koi. It appears to have cloudy eye disease. My best recommendation for this is pristine water conditions.

The fish doesn't appear to have ICK so you're probably right about it being some type of fungus. I'm not familiar with the treatment that you've added. If you'll go to the top part of the screen and try a search for Fish Fungus, you'll find a good bit of information there.
I hope it's going to be ok

Do you have plans to move the KoI to a pond? They can grow to 3 feet long and maybe even larger. See the link below:
https://www.fishlore.com/profiles-koi.htm

Best of luck and please keep us posted.

Ken
 

platy ben

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I keep and breed koI in a pond and therefore I have strong opinions about keeping koI in tanks.
KoI should never be kept in a fish tank that is any less than 300G, and they will still need a pond even with that. Your tank is 65 litres, 17G. For a home for koi, its appauling which makes me irritated
This is also a perfect example of why koI shouldn't be put into freshwater tanks, it will never work, even long term.
In my experience with keeping koI (almost 10 years), once disease sets in that bad, there isn't a lot you can do, and I will be surprized if he recovers.

I'm sorry I can't say anything more positive, but koI in tanks isn't something I beat around the bush about.

As much as I hope it survives, I'm scared for its future. Do you intend on keeping them?

Ben.
 

gremlin

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The attack from the barbs probably did quite a bit of damage. It could be an infection from the attack, or it could be the wounds themselves...if the eye was attacked, it could be the outer layer of skin trying to slough off. It could also be a combination of things. Melafix is a fairly good medication for wounds on goldfish. If possible, do you have a larger tank or small pond that the koI can be moved to? They really need a lot more room than a 17 gallon can give them. KoI should really be kept in larger ponds. They can grow quite large - as in a couple of feet long. Also, the koI and the angelfish have different water requirements.
Tinfoil barbs can be pretty aggressive. They can also grow to be about a foot long, so they will need a large tank - about 75 gallons (about 285 litres). I think they would be okay with your bala shark, but you would need to have a large tank for them.
You should also have a liquid test kit so you can keep track of the ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates in your tanks. Any amount of ammonia in the tank is bad for the fish. Ammonia comes from the fish poop and leftover food and even just from the fish 'breathing' . Your sick KoI should probably be moved into it's own tank so no one picks on it to allow it time to heal - if it can. It looks pretty bad. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you and your fishy babies.
 
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Hello Every body, Thanx every one for your invaluable advise specially Aquarist48 for the very prompt reply and also Platy Ben for the concern and gremlin for all the information and suggestion.

At the outset, I have news for you. Prolly some good news. With all your good wishes, the KoI seems to be recovering from the setback. The thick white covering on the eyes which you've seen in the picture has lightened a lot when I examined him this morning. He also seems to be more cheerful than he was yesterday, even went on in a frenzy to gulp down the granules I dropped in the tank this morning, best of all he is now swimming around the tank up an down lef and right.

I appreciate Platy Ben's concern. He certainly has reasons to get irritated. Prolly if I was in his place I too would have been irritated. Rest assured, I'll keep the Kois in a larger tank exclusively for them with more water and space for swimming. The 17 gallons tank was meant only for the angelfishes, and since this was just adjascent to the tank with the tinfoils, all that I could immidiately do in emergency at that moment was to net the Kois and transfer them to the nearest other tank. I'm letting them be there for some more time coz I don't want to stress them any more till the time I build a larger tank for them (which I'll do pretty soon). Thankfully the angel fishes are very tolerant and did not bother the injured koi.

I'm pretty concerned abt the nitrogen cycle and the ammonia levels in the water. All my tanks are already cycled. The place where I stay, keeping aquariums is still in a state of infancy, hence sophiticated (or for that matter even basic level) water testing kits are unheard of at the loacal pet shops and are unavailable. But not taking any chances, I normally make it a point to change half the quantity of water in each tank almost every 4 to 5 days. I'm also particular about not over feeding my fishes. This also helps in their healthy upkeep.

In 1984, just out of college, I built myself my first aquarium (in aluminium frame and wax mixed with tar). New Delhi, the Capital of India, about 580 square miles in area, the place I belong to, had just two aquarium shops, today the numbers have grown, but, fish keeping is still considered a hobby for the "well to do".

Though maturing as a hobby, its still in its state of infancy and enthusiasts have to rely on books (though, these days internet has helped) to identify their fishes and learn about their habit(at)s etc. We have to rely and use any or only what ever is available or provided at the pet shops. Unfortunately none of the medicines listed here is available with my aquarist .
In this case, I'm relying totally on grassroot level experience I've had in handling fishes for over the last two decades and the very valuable inputs from this site. I'll be grateful if someone can provide the chemical formula of Melafix so that I can try locating it locally.

Thanx again to every one. x
 

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Hello Mistral

I'm so glad to hear that your KoI is recovering! That's great news!

The active ingredient in Melafix is MELALEUCA OIL (Contains the natural botanical extract from the Tea Tree (Melaleuca) ).

Please keep us posted.

Ken


 
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aquarist48 said:
Hello Mistral

I'm so glad to hear that your KoI is recovering! That's great news!

The active ingredient in Melafix is MELALEUCA OIL (Contains the natural botanical extract from the Tea Tree (Melaleuca) ).

Please keep us posted.

Ken


Thanx a lot for your good wishes and the tip about the medicine... I'll look around for it and I guess I'll be able to locate it too... BTW just happened to stike me as I was writing this, would a very diluted solution of tea liqure help? Prolly it will... Niway thanx for the info. I'll keep the board informed and will post picts too
Thanx again
Mist.
 

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HI Mistral,

I've never used tea liqure so I can't really say.

Ken
 
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I've never used tea liqure so I can't really say.

Ken
Hi,
I made a concoction of 2 tsp of tea leaves with 5 tsp salt in half a glass (abt 150 ml) of water microwaved the sloution for 2 minutes strained it and let it cool before putting in abot 10 ml of the solution to the 65 lit tank which is now doubling as an ICU for the Kois. I have been monitoring the fishes every 15 minutes for abt 4 hours now. Every thing looks normal, though don't know how effrctive this may prove for the fungus removal, but surely I find the white patch shrinking in size, also the spots which were appearing near the tails have diminished. I'm also observing the other koI for similar tell tale signs. Fortunately there ar none. Both fishes seem normal as of now with the recovering koI foraging for food underneath the small gravels I have not done anything to increase the temperature of the water since the ambient water temp is already around 80 deg F. I forgot a little detail. There was remarkable progress in the recovery after I introduced live worms in the tank. Both the kois devoured them. Will keep posting.
Thanx
 

Meenu

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Good luck to you.

Can I suggest that whenever you are in the market for more fish, you do what I do? I go to the store to see what they have. If I like it and am not positive about its care, I don't buy it that day. Instead, I make a note of what I liked and then research it before buying. It will help you avoid pitfalls such as purchasing koI to go into a 17 gallon tank. I understand that when you are at the store, the fish look great and you want them, and the storekeeper tells you they will work in your setup. But sometimes, the storekeepers don't know the best care. Fishkeeping is a hobby where you need a lot of impulse control.
 

sirdarksol

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Meenu said:
Good luck to you.

Can I suggest that whenever you are in the market for more fish, you do what I do? I go to the store to see what they have. If I like it and am not positive about its care, I don't buy it that day. Instead, I make a note of what I liked and then research it before buying. It will help you avoid pitfalls such as purchasing koI to go into a 17 gallon tank. I understand that when you are at the store, the fish look great and you want them, and the storekeeper tells you they will work in your setup. But sometimes, the storekeepers don't know the best care. Fishkeeping is a hobby where you need a lot of impulse control.
This is an excellent suggestion, and is similar to what I do now. It has saved me from bringing home some pretty, but very inappropriate, fish for my community.
I wish I had done it years ago, when I first purchased Miyamoto (RIP), my platinum butterfly koi. Instead, I asked the nice folks at Petsmart, who obviously had to know more about keeping fish than I did, if he would be a good addition to my 20 gallon community. They said "yes," and I ended up with a fish that was already far too large for the tank, and would only grow bigger.
 
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HI Meenu,

thanx for the gr8 suggestion and your good wishes too... you are very right what you say about the store keeper and the impulsive buyer... and about how to get over the impulse to buy just because something looks gr8.

Actually buying the kois was deliberate and and having to keep them in the 17 gallon tank was purely result of circumstances. My post some how seems to sound as if the kois were meant for the 17 gallon tank which is not so.

I am building a 200 lit tank ( I have to go in for the tank because I live on the fourth floor and have only a terrace and no pond) for the shark which stung me and I had thought of adding the kois there. The kois which are barely 2" long now (size is evident if you compare it to the filter pump in the back ground) I thought would add to the color of the almost 30 gallon tank which contains the tinfoils till the new home was ready. I thought it was ok coz at the shop they were in the company of tinfoils quite ignored by the tinfoils, but unfortunately things turned the other way round.

Folks, thanx for all the concern... I just want to assure you all that my fishes right from the small zebra danios to the rouge shark are family for me and I'll do all that is necessary to keep them well... well accidents do happen and unfortunately it happened in my tank. Just that because accidents are not frequent in my tanks, I was clueless about the treatment and medicines. x once again
 

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Melaleuca oil can be found in human health food stores. If you have anything like that around, they might have it for you. I don't know if you might be able to order it on line. Continued good luck and looking forward to pictures of all your finny babies!
 
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gremlin said:
Melaleuca oil can be found in human health food stores. .... Continued good luck and looking forward to pictures of all your finny babies!
Thanx again... will cirtainly check up with my chemist... in the mean while I'll keep my fingers crossed. Though the recovery is slow but it certainly is taking place... Will have to wait n watch and keep changing the water.
 

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MISTRAL said:
I am building a 200 lit tank ( I have to go in for the tank because I live on the fourth floor and have only a terrace and no pond) for the shark which stung me and I had thought of adding the kois there.
Oh, sounds like you needed more planning there as well, then. 2 koI would not be appropriate for a 200 litre tank. I think the right size would be closer to 2000 litres. This forum is a great place to do your research before you actually purchase your fish.
 
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Meenu said:
Oh, sounds like you needed more planning there as well, then. 2 koI would not be appropriate for a 200 litre tank. I think the right size would be closer to 2000 litres. This forum is a great place to do your research before you actually purchase your fish.
Yes, I guess you are right... This is a gr8 place with lots of valuable information and gr8 people ready to help.

Thanx again
 
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HI all,

This is just an update...

The tea liqure does not seem to have any adverse affect the Kois and angelfishes. they look normal and behave normally. They are as active as they were before the treatment... no sluggishness observed...

Now abt the Fungus, the worst seem to be over the eye is now visible, its not cloudy but there are still a few strands of the suff over the eye. The spots on the body and near the tail have disappeared completely. The fins are upright and no longer drooped as it was earlier. The injured KoI is eating well forraging under the gravels and seems to be more active than ever before.

What I did for treatment:

1. Did one complete change of water every day by multiple changes in small (1/4th tank at a time)quantities four to five times over two hours.

2. Added about 50 gms of common salt (NaCl) dissolved in abt 100ml of water microwaved in a glass tumbler free from detergents.

3. let the water temperature remain at abt 82deg F. This has been going on from day one,

4.however started with tea treatment as described in my earlier post for the last 2/3 days.
Not too sure of the results... nothing adverse noticed, though I wish some one could throw in some light about the effects of caffeine on fishes. Tea is also supposed to contain caffeine

5. In addition to above, also used in prescribed doses, the yellow liquid whose formula or chemical composition I do not know

Touchwood, if things go the way its going, I should be able to see a pair of crystal clear eyes by tomorrow morning. Will post picts then.

Thanx for all the good wishes.
 
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HI All,

this is just to post after tmt s of the Koi... The second shows the damaged eye.. its taking time to recover but it certainly looks better than it was on day one.
 

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