How would you create soft water/low pH for Licorice Gourami?

I just put in an order for a group of 6 Licorice Gourami and I know they are a more sensitive species that like low pH and soft water. I've never bothered to mess with my pH, GH, KH but I think I'll be giving it a try for these little gourami as I would like to breed them too. Other than buying a RODI system, what would you say other possible options would be? I know very little about this sort of thing.
My current levels are:
GH-11
KH-7
pH-7.8

After a good water change and moving out the inhabitants from the old 10gal planted tank I added about 2/3 cup of peat granules to the filter and 2 big IAL leaves. I plan to test the water again in the next couple days to see where I'm at. I'm also considering getting one of those "water softener pillows" but my main concern is what happens when I do a water change? Wouldn't the new tap water just jump the levels up again and cause dangerous swings? Of course running the new water through the "pillow" before adding it to the tank is an option but more work.

A few other options I am thinking about trying is AIL extract added to new water (easy to make, measure and use) and rain water (more like snow water seeing as it's winter). Perhaps adding a different substrate? I would love to hear others' thoughts on how to easily and affordably make soft water.

 

THE AQUARIUM: Keeping and breeding Licorice Gouramis
THE resource on the topic of licorice gourami.

Blackwater: Basics and FAQ - Aquarium Article
I go into methods and water chemistry in that article as well.

For licorice gourami you have no option but pure rainwater, RO, DI or distilled water. The soft in soft and acidic is much more important than the pH. Depending on what species you ordered you will need to get that sorted FAST if the fish are already on their way.

Good thing is, a tank as small as 20-30 liters is enough for many species. And actually quite helpful to get the pH down.

I'm also considering getting one of those "water softener pillows" but my main concern is what happens when I do a water change? Wouldn't the new tap water just jump the levels up again and cause dangerous swings? Of course running the new water through the "pillow" before adding it to the tank is an option but more work.

Safe the money, these things remove GH, you need to get KH down.
But indeed, the tapwater will raise KH again, raising everything with it. Once you soften the water the water source has to be soft aswell otherwise you get constant swings. Those are in themselves not dangerous but it puts quite a strain on the fish so if they happen often this is at one point going to crash any fishes system.

If you have constant access to rainwater this is the most affordable source. Next to a simple RO (not RO/DI) unit for roughly a hundred bucks which pays off quite quickly usually. Most important is the water has to be as soft as possible. If you can, get a TDS meter, you'll need it.

Edit: This will really interest you.
Water

 

Consistency is important when you are altering water .
Counting leaves or trusting chemicals to make consistent results is tough and often undependable.
RO[ like Mac said no need for DI] and then the TDS meter .
I use the HM3 TDS meter .
https://www.amazon.com/HM-Digital-T...ds=tds+meter+hm+digital&qid=1644274430&sr=8-4
I for a while added liquid humic acid to my water for consistent black water.


It took very little to stain the water .
Always measure and be consistent during and after exploring and learning.

 

Counting leaves or trusting chemicals to make consistent results is tough and often undependable.

Exactly.

I like to use the leaf litte bed method and I can only recommed it additionally: It provides unbelievable stability.

 

THE AQUARIUM: Keeping and breeding Licorice Gouramis
THE resource on the topic of licorice gourami.

Blackwater: Basics and FAQ - Aquarium Article
I go into methods and water chemistry in that article as well.

For licorice gourami you have no option but pure rainwater, RO, DI or distilled water. The soft in soft and acidic is much more important than the pH. Depending on what species you ordered you will need to get that sorted FAST if the fish are already on their way.

Good thing is, a tank as small as 20-30 liters is enough for many species. And actually quite helpful to get the pH down.


Safe the money, these things remove GH, you need to get KH down.
But indeed, the tapwater will raise KH again, raising everything with it. Once you soften the water the water source has to be soft aswell otherwise you get constant swings. Those are in themselves not dangerous but it puts quite a strain on the fish so if they happen often this is at one point going to crash any fishes system.

If you have constant access to rainwater this is the most affordable source. Next to a simple RO (not RO/DI) unit for roughly a hundred bucks which pays off quite quickly usually. Most important is the water has to be as soft as possible. If you can, get a TDS meter, you'll need it.

Edit: This will really interest you.
Water

Those links were very helpful! Now for a few questions.

Does added tannin effect TDS? Assuming I use botanical extracts, I would have to match pH and TDS from the new water to the old water right? I'm guessing this is where the TDS meter comes into play? Another thing I'm curious about is substrate. Is there any need for buffering? I'm assuming inert substrates are safest.

The fish have not been shipped out yet and I'm not too sure when they will be, been keeping an eye on my notifications in the meantime. The listing stated they are Parosphromenus deissneri. TDS meter will be ordered shortly. If it comes down to it I'll buy the RO unit too, can't go wrong there.

Looks like I'll be busy experimenting with melted snow, I live out in the middle of nowhere so there shouldn't be much risk of impurities. Except in the winter, we get plenty of rain most the time, keeping a 10gal going should be easy enough. Another possible source of soft water is the dehumidifier, thoughts?

Currently I have a steady supply of botanicals including IAL, teak leaves, alder cones, oak leaves and caps, hickory nut husks, beach leaves etc. I collect all but the teak and IAL myself from state land and private hunting property. I also have live foods including grindal, white, and black worms. Paramecium, micro and vinegar eel cultures. I have plenty of BBS I can have hatched out within 48hrs. Spring time will offer an abundance of mosquito larva, fruit flies/larva are also easy to produce. I've raised plenty of small species so fry rearing should be simple enough. Just have to get water parameters in check with a steady water change schedule.

As far as tank mates go, I was considering keeping the current group of java loaches in with them but I think adjusting to vastly different parameters may be too hard on them as they've lived like this for a few years now, they'll be moved to another tank.

 

Does added tannin effect TDS?

Tannins only minimally effect TDS.

Assuming I use botanical extracts, I would have to match pH and TDS from the new water to the old water right?

What do you mean with old and new water? Just for clarification.

I'm guessing this is where the TDS meter comes into play?

A pH meter (except a high end device for 300-500,-) will not work in that low conductivity. PH drip tests become very unreliable with KH below 1°. A TDS and EC (they also measure conductivity, good ones do at least) helps you evaluate the conditions. Because all other tests (GH, KH, NH4, NO2, NO3 ...) will give you a reading of 0 or below detection. E.g. my tank has a TDS of 45 mg/l ( =ppm), which includes all nitrogen compounds (mostly NO3 15mg/l) and ions (i.e. iron, phosphates etc... estimated around also 15mg/l combined) from the cycle and plant fertilizers and residual TDS in the RO (should never be over 10mg/l, mine gives me about 5mg/l right out of the unit.).

Before you get a wrong impression: You will still have to measure pH and get it very far down.
My pH tests are unreliable at that level. Right now the drip says 5.5 - 6, old tank was 4.5, I'd guess this has to be read as +/- 0.5-0.75.

Another thing I'm curious about is substrate.

Inert sand, exactly. A layer of a cm or two is enough.

Is there any need for buffering? I'm assuming inert substrates are safest.

Buffering works via humic substances in blackwater. KH has no meaning here.

The fish have not been shipped out yet and I'm not too sure when they will be, been keeping an eye on my notifications in the meantime. The listing stated they are Parosphromenus deissneri. TDS meter will be ordered shortly. If it comes down to it I'll buy the RO unit too, can't go wrong there.

Good! About the RO unit: If you have any whatsover slight doubt you can provide the right water all year (looking to the height of summer), get at least a small plug&play unit like an RO buddy (I do not recommend that specific unit, but the type) for emergencies and get familiar with it. Once you can compare the TDS/EC of rainwater and RO, you should decide for the one with the lower readings.

Looks like I'll be busy experimenting with melted snow, I live out in the middle of nowhere so there shouldn't be much risk of impurities. Except in the winter, we get plenty of rain most the time, keeping a 10gal going should be easy enough.

You might still want to filter the rainwater through something like a brita.

Another possible source of soft water is the dehumidifier, thoughts?

That instead leave. It contains not only water from the air but also dust, smoke, roomsprays, candlewax... whatever is in the air in your house will also collect in it. I'd not touch it for my tanks even if you have minimal aerosoles in your home.

Currently I have a steady supply of botanicals including IAL, teak leaves, alder cones, oak leaves and caps, hickory nut husks, beach leaves etc. I collect all but the teak and IAL myself from state land and private hunting property.

Excellent!
For the recommended pH range for most species of 4.5-5.5 you will have to employ peat in purified water. In your tap peat will have had impact as it's a strong ion-exchanger, but only in water without KH you will get down where you want it. Preatreatment will be your best bet. (I'd probably use peat in a coffee filter and let RO from the storage run through it in the container for waterchange water.)
Don't rely on the extract coralbandit recommendet, because, no offense to him, I just looked up the pH range they say it stabilizes in and it's too high. They say around 6.

I also have live foods including grindal, white, and black worms. Paramecium, micro and vinegar eel cultures. I have plenty of BBS I can have hatched out within 48hrs. Spring time will offer an abundance of mosquito larva, fruit flies/larva are also easy to produce. I've raised plenty of small species so fry rearing should be simple enough.

Brilliant!

Just have to get water parameters in check with a steady water change schedule.

Absolutely! It all stands and falls with the water.

As far as tank mates go, I was considering keeping the current group of java loaches in with them but I think adjusting to vastly different parameters may be too hard on them as they've lived like this for a few years now, they'll be moved to another tank.

Considering how finnicky and delicate the gourami are, I'd at first keep them in a species tank.

Well... I hope your questions are answered and I hope I didn't forget anything.
And just for the record: I know a collector of these fish but I do not keep them myself. Still, I need similar water conditions for my dwarf cichlids, so I'm able to help with the conditions. When it comes to behaviour of the fish, their peculiarities and the like, I can also only draw my infos from the resource I send you. Which I find extensive for a website.
But then again... keeping these fish is an active conservation effort for a group of fish that is highly endangered. You have to do everything you can to offer them optimal conditions. They deserve it.

 

What do you mean with old and new water? Just for clarification.

I mean old tank water vs the new water to be added. The TDS meter I bought tests for TDS, temp, and EC. I'll be using the liquid API test for pH.

You might still want to filter the rainwater through something like a brita.

I was going to use an old HOB with active charcoal, should work the same.

For the recommended pH range for most species of 4.5-5.5 you will have to employ peat in purified water.

Where should I get some peat? I would think it is not the same as peat moss? I already have Fluval peat pellets but I also have organic peat moss (for my African violet collection).

 

Where should I get some peat? I would think it is not the same as peat moss? I already have Fluval peat pellets but I also have organic peat moss (for my African violet collection).

Peat is nothing but centuries of layers of peat moss. The peat pellets contain the moss basically as a filler. And the pellets are ok. Otherwise look in garden supply for white peat without fertilizers. Same thing, and much cheaper in bulk.

I mention it here, but as you have no choice for the fish it's nothing more than a sidenote: Peat is not sustainably sourced for sale. So be aware while helping an endangered species you also contribute to higher CO2 release as peat swamps store a lot of CO2.
I think it evens out somewhat, but this is a reason I stick to methods that are sustainable but take more time than you have to prepare the tank.

 

Good news is, fish are not going to arrive this week due to it being too cold in my area for safe shipping. Bad news is next week is going to be even colder and it may possibly stay cold for several more weeks. I only hope they are willing to work with me and hold the fish until then, otherwise my order will have to be canceled and who knows when I'll find such a good deal on the gourami. At least I now have plenty of time to get the tank ready.

I'll have to made do with the pellets for now but will be looking in the garden centers next time I'm out shopping. I did read about the negative effects from peat harvest, I was truly hoping to make due with just the botanicals I have on hand.

About 8gals of melted and strained snow it's going right into the now empty tank and the filter will be stuffed with carbon, afterwards it will be switched out for peat pellets. I hope the couple anubias on wood will be able to handle the switch okay.

Somewhat worried about the trumpet and ramshorn snails I was not able to pick out of the sand. I did my best to remove as many as I could, I just worry the tiny ones I missed will end up dying and polluting the water. I'm assuming the colonies of beneficial bacteria will end up dying too, so I'll essentially have an uncycled tank with rotting organisms... According your article I'll just have to keep an eye on the ammonia levels and do water changes as needed. Seeing as fish are not going to be added for at least a couple more weeks, I plan to let the tank cycle as is once it's been filled and peat pellets are added.

 

Good news is, fish are not going to arrive this week due to it being too cold in my area for safe shipping. Bad news is next week is going to be even colder and it may possibly stay cold for several more weeks. I only hope they are willing to work with me and hold the fish until then, otherwise my order will have to be canceled and who knows when I'll find such a good deal on the gourami. At least I now have plenty of time to get the tank ready.

Tricky situation. I hope it works out for you.

I'll have to made do with the pellets for now but will be looking in the garden centers next time I'm out shopping. I did read about the negative effects from peat harvest, I was truly hoping to make due with just the botanicals I have on hand.

With botanicals it takes time to get as far down as necessary. I mean my tank getting down to 4.5 was over a year's work. The new one has a long way to go.

About 8gals of melted and strained snow it's going right into the now empty tank and the filter will be stuffed with carbon, afterwards it will be switched out for peat pellets. I hope the couple anubias on wood will be able to handle the switch okay.

The Anubias will likely show signs of deficiencies after a week or two. I'd probably do only emersed plants and floaters.

Somewhat worried about the trumpet and ramshorn snails I was not able to pick out of the sand. I did my best to remove as many as I could, I just worry the tiny ones I missed will end up dying and polluting the water. I'm assuming the colonies of beneficial bacteria will end up dying too, so I'll essentially have an uncycled tank with rotting organisms... According your article I'll just have to keep an eye on the ammonia levels and do water changes as needed. Seeing as fish are not going to be added for at least a couple more weeks, I plan to let the tank cycle as is once it's been filled and peat pellets are added.

The highlighted/bold sentence is the essence of this type of aquarium. Botanicals, peat... it all serves as food for biofilms and bacteria. And those will give the tank the stability it needs and at one point settle the filter and seed the substrate. It's just a shift in the microfauna, not a complete loss.

 

Black water tank is getting there in terms of pH. Test says 6.4 but I’d like to aim for 5 or so. I think I’ll add more alder cones and peat pellets. This was just before I added the botanicals and then today, 3 days later.




The water is nice and dark but could be darker. Not scaped or anything, just threw it all together since there’s no fish yet.


TDS meter should arrive tomorrow

 

Nice start. Take your time. No need to rush.

 

Test says 6.4 but I’d like to aim for 5 or so. I think I’ll add more alder cones and peat pellets.

More is not necessarily better. It takes time to decompose and dureing that process a lot of the stuff you want is released.

 

More is not necessarily better. It takes time to decompose and dureing that process a lot of the stuff you want is released.

Noted, but didn’t see this until I already threw in some burr oak acorn caps. They look neat and in my other tanks the rabbit snails love to eat them. Big ones make nice caves for small fish.

 

Not a problem either. Just wanted to make sure it came across.

 

TDS meter arrived and I tested both the tank and snow water.
Tank
TDS-28ppm
Electro conductivity- 56

Snow water
TDS-5ppm
Electro conductivity- 10

And to compare, tap water
TDS-170ppm
Electro conductivity-340

Not entirely sure where this puts me. It seems to look decent so far, all the other tests (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) are giving me zeros across the board.

An update on my fish order, Aquahuna says they may not be able to ship them till Feb 28th. Fine by me so long as I get them in the end! I also have koi medaka rice fish in the same order. To be honest I'm more looking forward to the medaka, I already have experience with them and breeding them is incredibly easy (and rewarding!).

 

Tank
TDS-28ppm
Electro conductivity- 56

Perfect.

Snow water
TDS-5ppm
Electro conductivity- 10

Pretty much the values of RO.

And to compare, tap water
TDS-170ppm
Electro conductivity-340

Fits the bill except the tank parameters this is pretty much what I read here.
Now the only thing missing is more acidity.

So next step: Adding leaf litter. Bit by bit. You'll need substancial amounts in the end, but you have to do this in portions. This is the best prerequisite for infusoria and overall tank stability. The more is in and in controlled rotting when the fish arrive the better.

It seems to look decent so far, all the other tests (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) are giving me zeros across the board.

This is normal. No worries. You are also already in the pH range where ammonia is no problem anymore.

 

Exciting project! I’m researching paros as well, so I’m happy to find this thread.

I looked at the pictures on Aqua Huna’s site. The fish are tiny, but given the tail shape they do not appear to be deissneri. Of the species that tend to be labelled deissneri, they so far look consistent with cf. Bintan. But time will tell, They are all beautiful, in my opinion.

Don't rely on the extract coralbandit recommendet, because, no offense to him, I just looked up the pH range they say it stabilizes in and it's too high. They say around 6.

Humic acid has low solubility in acidic water, so any product sold at these concentrations are likely kept in solution with NaOH.

I mention it here, but as you have no choice for the fish it's nothing more than a sidenote: Peat is not sustainably sourced for sale.

I’m not sure it’s a foregone conclusion that you must use peat. The folks at The Parosphromenus Project avoid it for those reasons. Though the more sensitive species have been bred at extremely low pH, I see many reports at pH levels attainable with RO and botanicals.

 

I did a little more to the tank, tossed in frogbit, salvinia and giant duckweed. Also have a little spider plantlet sitting in the HOB filter, just started growing roots. I may add in a pothos vine as well, I’ve had them do really well in my old tank. I’ll have to add photos next time.

I’ve been debating on adding a paramecium culture. As an experiment, I strained out some mulm from my culture and put it in a bit of snow water. Added an acorn cap and let it stew for a week. The paramecium did not seem to mind the change in water parameters and are doing just fine. I wonder if there would be any benefit to adding the culture? Would it cause any harm? I think it will be fine.



As for a shipment update, aquahuna sent out the rice fish but not the gourami. The koi medaka arrived yesterday, all alive. They are not for the blackwater tank. Not sure why they wouldn’t send the gourami, hopefully they send them out on the 28th.

May as well talk about the medaka real quick. Looks like 2 pairs but they are certainly not as colorful as the photos suggest and they look pretty mature/old to me. Too soon to leave a review but currently I’m not very impressed. This male is the best looking but the “red cap” is nearly non existent



Currently hatching som BBS to get them in shape for spawning.

 

I’m not sure it’s a foregone conclusion that you must use peat. The folks at The Parosphromenus Project avoid it for those reasons. Though the more sensitive species have been bred at extremely low pH, I see many reports at pH levels attainable with RO and botanicals.

When I wrote that it was my knowledge that the fish would be delivered soon. That's why I recommended peat to speed it up. Then the situation changed to a longer timeframe.
If it was not time sensitive in the first place I would have recommended to stick to botanicals.

I’ve been debating on adding a paramecium culture. As an experiment, I strained out some mulm from my culture and put it in a bit of snow water. Added an acorn cap and let it stew for a week. The paramecium did not seem to mind the change in water parameters and are doing just fine. I wonder if there would be any benefit to adding the culture? Would it cause any harm? I think it will be fine.

Something like that would have developed anyway. So you are speeding it up a bit.

 

Bought some more driftwood to put in the black water tank. A nice assortment of small pieces.




Fish were not shipped this week like they said they probably would. I sent a message to aquahuna asking if they still intend to ship them. I have a funny feeling they’ll end up giving me a refund... Been looking around at other websites selling them. Currently top of the list is wetspot. Also been thinking of switching to chocolate gourami, their spawning behavior is incredibly interesting. Waiting to hear back from aquahuna first.

Floaters in the blackwater tank, seem to be doing okay so far but I do worry they may start showing deficiencies due to the lack of fertilizers. I’m also seeing a lot of little critters in the tank now, lots of worms and whatnot. Should be a good sign.

 

I'm interested in chocolate gouramis too, but 10 gallon might be small for them long term. Which species?

 

Fish were not shipped this week like they said they probably would. I sent a message to aquahuna asking if they still intend to ship them. I have a funny feeling they’ll end up giving me a refund... Been looking around at other websites selling them. Currently top of the list is wetspot. Also been thinking of switching to chocolate gourami, their spawning behavior is incredibly interesting. Waiting to hear back from aquahuna first.

I hope you get them. Otherwise there are a lot of other fish that would fit.

Floaters in the blackwater tank, seem to be doing okay so far but I do worry they may start showing deficiencies due to the lack of fertilizers.

The frogbit already shows deficiency. The lighter coloured leaves are a clear sign. A minimum of fertilizers is not a problem. Looks mainly like iron deficiency. Nitrogen deficiency would make them rot away.

I’m also seeing a lot of little critters in the tank now, lots of worms and whatnot. Should be a good sign.

For sure a good sign!

I'm interested in chocolate gouramis too, but 10 gallon might be small for them long term.

True, this might be a bit small.

 

I'm interested in chocolate gouramis too, but 10 gallon might be small for them long term. Which species?

Haven’t made any decisions yet, but the Sphaerichthys osphromenoides or Sphaerichthys vaillanti. Wespot also has more licorice gourami species. I’ll have to do some thinking and researching. Now that I have my first proper blackwater setup there are suddenly loads of options!

The frogbit already shows deficiency. The lighter coloured leaves are a clear sign. A minimum of fertilizers is not a problem. Looks mainly like iron deficiency. Nitrogen deficiency would make them rot away.

I’ll add some liquid ferts then and see how they do.

 

I’ll add some liquid ferts then and see how they do.

Start with 25% of the recommended amounts and work your way up. With the floating plants you're basically using the duckweed index or estimative index.

 

Haven’t made any decisions yet, but the Sphaerichthys osphromenoides or Sphaerichthys vaillanti. Wespot also has more licorice gourami species. I’ll have to do some thinking and researching. Now that I have my first proper blackwater setup there are suddenly loads of options!

Disclaimer: My knowledge here is from research, not firsthand experience. I'm just behind you in progress, but it sounds like we have similar taste. Hope we can learn from each other on this journey.

From what I'm reading, osphromenoides do better in groups, and the vaillanti do better in pairs. There are a few successful Dutch breeders on the Labyrinth Fish Facebook page who recommend 15 gallons for the vaillanti pair, which is probably how I'll try it. If you do a 10, you want to make sure there's a lot of structure.

I'm looking at the same parosphromenus spp. on Wet Spot, and the only one I'm personally avoiding for now is the ornaticauda, which is reportedly more difficult to breed.

 

FYI, I reached out to Wet Spot today and they were able to give me catch locations on the three of the paro species they carry. That's important if you want to report to the Core Conservation Program (CCP) Census:

P. nagyi - Johor Kota Tinggi , Malaysia
P. ornaticauda - Anjungan, West Kalimantan
P. sentangensis (likely sp. Sentang?) - Jambi, South Sumatra, Indonesia

I didn't hear back about P. anjunganensis.

Cheers,
Ben

 

Well looks like aquahuna has sent out the gourami, they should be here in another day or two. The tank is pretty much ready, the new driftwood still hasn’t sunk even after simmering on the stove so they are still soaking in a bucket, and they stink of swamp. A fresh batch of BBS should be ready to collect tomorrow.

Will update again once they arrive. I plan on doing a drip acclimation over several hours.

 

Gourami have arrived and have been added to their tank after a few hours of drip acclimating. They’re exploring and pecking at things. I’ll try offering some food a bit later.





The smallest one seems to be the only one having issues. Almost looks like swim bladder problems what with its back end drooping like it is.

Any ideas on the exact species?

 

You might have to wait until they show display colors to get a better ID. True deissneri are hard to get, but the deissneri males would have a spade-shaped caudal fin with an obvious black filament.

 

I think for a 100% ID a picture taken with flash as soon as they have truly settled in might be necessary.

 

...And a 100% ID may not be possible, because there are many undescribed forms. With several species that could be classified as trade deissneri, the best we can do might be a c.f. But we could get lucky! Can Aqua Huna get a catch location from the wholesaler?

 

And a 100% ID may not be possible

Sure, but we both know from dwarf cichlids, that a 100% ID can also mean 100% for a certain subgroup or species complex OR a clear statement of what they are NOT.

 

I've offered chopped black worms, BBS and even some dry foods (not all at the same time of course) and I saw them eat some of everything. The smallest one with the droopy tail has recovered fully and swims perfectly fine.

While observing them I noticed one of the medium sized fish has what appears to be a scrape/bump on its head. That one seems to be fine nonetheless.

Haven't seen any territorial behavior yet, they like to stay grouped together. The 2 largest appear to be males based on their darker coloration. The few times they did have their tails fanned out I did not notice it being spade shaped with any filament extension. Tails look perfectly rounded so far. Photos will be hard to get as they are rather shy. I also tried using the flash but all I got was a glare from the glass, may have to try a different angle.

Current water change schedule will be 1gal once a week. I plan to do it by adding peat pellets and/or botanicals and letting them soak between water changes. I would think a week of soaking should bring out enough tannins to bring the new water down in pH well enough. I need to pick up a new 5gal bucket with a lid next time I'm out to store more water in, the current 5gal tank being used is an eyesore.

On another note, I can't wait till spring so I can start collecting mosquito larva!

 

The dominant male is really throwing his (minuscule) weight around! He’s been chasing away the others during feeding time and displaying to the other male. Of course I never have my camera ready when he does flare his fins.




They’re really enjoying all the live foods including BBS, black worms, grindal worms, and last night I gave them white worms for the first time. One adult worm is plenty enough to fill one of their bellies. The picture with the flash shows one with a worm sticking out.

They’ve had one ~10% water change and they seemed perfectly fine with it. They’ll be getting their second water change tomorrow, this time with rain water rather than melted snow. More leaf litter was added last time and the water is so very dark, darker than in the photos for sure. The floating plants are at fault for that too. Frogbit roots are almost touching the substrate, they get a bit of liquid ferts after each water change.


They are still spitting out non-living foods, today I tried freeze dried brine shrimp. They had a taste and spat them out. I really would like to get them eating some prepared foods so they won’t starve should someone else have to feed them. Next on the list is frozen blood worms.

Today’s water parameters:
TDS-37ppm
Electro Conductivity- 74

 

Try frozen cyclops if you can. And be sparse with the bloodworms.

 

They are so tiny! Especially compared to the physella on the glass, which I know is closer. I'm zooming and squinting, but my guess is still P. cf. bintan.

They are still spitting out non-living foods, today I tried freeze dried brine shrimp. They had a taste and spat them out. I really would like to get them eating some prepared foods so they won’t starve should someone else have to feed them. Next on the list is frozen blood worms.

How long do you plan to be away from the tank? I've never been away for more than 3 weeks, in which case I would ask a professional to do it. But I just don't trust anyone else to feed. I think it's better to fast them. They'll find microfauna in the tank, and it keeps the water cleaner if they're not pooping.

The problem with non-live foods is that, even if they eventually take it, they might not eat it once it lands on the substrate. So it will foul the water more quickly. Live foods will still be moving even if not in the water column, so they're a lot safer.

The floating plants are at fault for that too. Frogbit roots are almost touching the substrate, they get a bit of liquid ferts after each water change.

I'm really torn as to whether to do ferts. Right now (pre-fish) I'm only dosing 1/8 EI, but the plants are obviously not loving it. I'm tempted to go higher, but I'm also aware that conductivity in the natural habitat is between 7 and 30 us/cm.

-B

 

They are so tiny! Especially compared to the physella on the glass, which I know is closer. I'm zooming and squinting, but my guess is still P. cf. bintan.


How long do you plan to be away from the tank? I've never been away for more than 3 weeks, in which case I would ask a professional to do it. But I just don't trust anyone else to feed. I think it's better to fast them. They'll find microfauna in the tank, and it keeps the water cleaner if they're not pooping.

The problem with non-live foods is that, even if they eventually take it, they might not eat it once it lands on the substrate. So it will foul the water more quickly. Live foods will still be moving even if not in the water column, so they're a lot safer.


I'm really torn as to whether to do ferts. Right now (pre-fish) I'm only dosing 1/8 EI, but the plants are obviously not loving it. I'm tempted to go higher, but I'm also aware that conductivity in the natural habitat is between 7 and 30 us/cm.

-B

I’ll be on vacation for a week some time later in summer. I usually fast all the tanks but I’m sure one of my sisters will be there once or twice to feed the cats and water the plants, they usually feed the fish too unless told otherwise. I’ve only had a mishap once with them, I had 1 month old betta fry that were to be fed micro worms. My sister was putting in the culture media rather than scraping the worms off the sides... that batch of bettas didn’t die but many of them had missing pelvic fins due to the poor water quality, it seems the rotting stuff on the bottom will burn off their tiny pelvic fin buds.

 

They will definitely find things to eat during that week, given the maturity of your tank.

 

Two days ago they got a water change and today I am watching then spawn for the first time! I knew 2 were looking pretty plump and turns out the female with the little bump on her head is spawning with the dominant male.

They are nesting between some leaves right against the glass. I tried getting pictures but it is just too dark for decent photos. I’ve seen them embrace a few times and there are some eggs. Both parents pick them up and both seem to be defending the spawning area from the other gourami (who are very interested).

Unfortunately, it does not look like the eggs are staying in place very well. The female is trying to put them up under the leaf but I only see one staying put until they brushed up against it and knocked it down.

A few observations, there is no bubble nest and the eggs look a little bigger than betta eggs (splendens). After a successful embrace the female scoops up the few eggs that are still still on the male’s side (he’s in a “u” shape still) and then the male darts off. After seeing where he darts off to, it looks like he goes directly to the opposite end of the tank and into a pre-filter sponge, the cylindrical ones with a hole in the middle. I'm wondering if he isn't taking all the eggs over there as I do not see any at the spawning cite. They may have gotten eaten be either parent too.

While the dominant male is at the opposite end, I've seen the other male try to sneak in with the female a couple times. Even tried to embrace her but it looked like she rejected him before the dominant male came back to chase him off. Spawning seems to of ended and the female has left to pick a fight with another female(?). The dominant male keeps returning to the spawning cite, looking for eggs I believe and then darting back to the sponge.

I'm not terribly concerned if the eggs end up as duds this time around but I will definitely be keeping an eye out for wigglers and free swimmers. If the male stays in/around the sponge then I can assume the eggs are there. I may be able to sneak a divider in to try and save any fry from getting eaten by the others once they are free swimming. We'll see what happens in the next week or so, any free swimmers I see will be going directly into a mesh breeder basket.

TDS-32ppm
64 electro conductivity
Temp-80F