How to: Using Seachem Cupramine without a test kit?

neofyt05

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Hey fishlore friends,

My fish are flashing and twitch their heads but no sign of ich or inflammed gills or something. They are acting fine, eating normally, schooling, good colors. I can confirm there is no pH swing. Did 30% water change, still nothing.

The tank is a moderately planted 32g with 1 angelfish, 2 male mollies, 3 cories, 10 harlequins,10 neon tetras and a GBR.

I live in Europe so many mediaction brands are not available here. I can find Tetra, Sera, JBL, Seachem, Waterlife and Melafix. I narrowed down to Seachem ParaGuard and Cupramine. IME paraguard is very mild and I am thinking Cupramine but I don't have the money for the recommended test kit. I have some activated carbon on hand. Should I use it and how?

Thanks a lot
 

CatfishJack

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I'm not sure about diagnosis or which med to use, but save the carbon until after you're done medicating. It is for taking meds/chemicals OUT of the water. You wont want any carbon in the filter if you end up having to dose the water itself.
 
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neofyt05

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Thank for the input Bonefish... What I am trying to say, Cupramine is a copper based medication which works if there is 0.5ppm copper in the water, 1ppm is toxic to fish, below 0.5ppm and the parasites will be not affected so the ammount of copper in the water should be monitored. I know the use of AC I don't know how often and for how long should I use it to keep the copper atsafe levels
 

supernaut06

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I guess it depends on how badly you're noticing signs of flashing/twitching and have you noticed any other signs of parasites?

I have used paraguard in the past, usually in quarantine tanks, and unless something was fairly far progressed it has worked for me.

I have also used cupramine, in fact I am using it now (not in home aquarium) and I have not noticed it stressing my fish out. IF you use cupramine since it is copper based I would make sure to have some copper test kit on hand. Also make sure to monitor your fish for increased signs of stress. While medicating do not use any other meds or use water conditioner (so don't add stress coat for healing scales for example). If you do notice increased sings of stress perform a large water change, add carbon and use a good water conditioner.


Cupramine
 

CatfishJack

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That sounds like a difficult medication to use. I hope someone comes along that can help you with it.
 

supernaut06

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Bonefish, from my experience it isn't all that hard to use. Just have to follow directions and test your level of copper and of course watch your fish for signs of stress.
 

CatfishJack

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supernaut06 said:
Bonefish, from my experience it isn't all that hard to use. Just have to follow directions and test your level of copper and of course watch your fish for signs of stress.
When I started typing that post out, I had not seen yours yet. LOL

Doesn't sound near as difficult as I was imagining.
 

supernaut06

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I figured, the only thing I wonder about is using it with the neon tetras. While I have used it with other tetras in the past I haven't used it with those. I don't think it will impact them negatively but I would watch them and the corries.


*Of course as I mentioned earlier paraguard has worked for me when not dealing with advanced cases of illness.*
 
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neofyt05

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How effective did you find the Cupramine to be? (compared to ParaGuard)
 

supernaut06

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Very but I knew what I was treating, there were visible signs of ich. I had bought some glow light tetras and put them in my quarantine tank. They seemed fine for a couple days and then I noticed "sugar like" spots on them. I raised the temp in the tank and did daily water changes to no avail. I then started to add paraguard in addition to that and again didn't notice an improvement. That lasted about two weeks until I decided to try cupramine, making sure no trace of meds were in the water first. I followed directions and it cleared them up, I won't lie and say that I wasn't nervous about using it at first though.

I was lucky in that I knew what I was treating for in this case so I knew these medications should work if used properly. If you aren't sure what you're fish have I would do some more searching before medicating.

*In the past I had used paraguard when I was dealing with ich that didn't respond to heat and water changes and it had worked very well. This was the worst case of ich I have had to deal with which thankfully hasn't been all too many.*
 
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neofyt05

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So would you advise me to use Cupramine over Paraguard?
Flashing is a sign of a parasite and both meds are for this purpose so I don't think I am treating with the wrong med... I am leaning towards (gill) flukes, it's been 3 days and no spots btw
 

supernaut06

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Well I haven't used either to treat for flukes but I believe seachem states that both will work for that. I'll put it like this if you can get a copper test kit use cupramine and if you can't use paraguard. While I haven't had any unpleasant experiences with curpamine I would still not advise to use it without a way to test your water for copper levels. So without a test kit paraguard is a safer option, follow seachem's suggested treatment length and monitor your fish.
 
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neofyt05

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I have been using paraguard for 3 days with no evidence of improvement on the fish. That's why i want something copper-based. Cupramine should be added twice. The first dosage is actually a half dosage for the fish to be acclimated then on day 2 you put the rest of medication in your tank..What I am thinking is if I use AC on day 4 accompanied with a 30% water change and on day 5 i start the using cupramine again? Isn't that safe enough? thanks for your help guys
 

supernaut06

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For ease of mind I would do a larger water change, run the carbon for at least two days and do another water change before adding cupramine. It's a little more than just adding two doses you're trying to reach a concentration of .25mg/L and maintaining that for fourteen days which is why a test kit is pretty handy. But if you did the water changes and ran carbon you would probably be ok, watch your fish. With whatever route you go I hope the fish recover and feel better soon.


*Looking at your other thread, are you sure have not noticed any white stringy poops? That's important because it would signify internal parasites.*
 
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neofyt05

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I can confirm that they don't have white stringy poop. I think they have excessive slime coat and they are still flashing, not much but every now and then.

I think I will go for the Paraguard, and if things get worse I will have to giave cupramine a shot. The fish just dart/flash/twitch their heads every now and then, nothing that serious to suggest a copper-based medication, right?
"I have used paraguard in the past, usually in quarantine tanks, and unless something was fairly far progressed it has worked for me. "
 

supernaut06

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Yeah I don't think so. If you end up thinking that they truly have flukes you could try something like prazipro if you are able to obtain that. Good luck.
 
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neofyt05

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supernaut06 said:
Yeah I don't think so. If you end up thinking that they truly have flukes you could try something like prazipro if you are able to obtain that. Good luck.
Parasite Guard had no effect at all. It turned out to be gill/skin flukes and I treated them with praziquantel (JBL gyrodol 2 similar to prazipro you suggested).
 
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