How to tell if goldfish is stunted?

My friend had 2 goldfish in a 6.6 gallon Fluval ChI for about a little over a year (too small, I know!) and when he realize that it's too small, he gave them to me, tank and all. It was a common goldfish and a fantail Well, I did my research and finally got a 32 gallon with Marineland Penguin 350gph and is now cycling it. I wanted to know if the goldfish are stunted and how badly. I am not really sure about the symptoms and stuff because I don't really know what a healthy goldfish should look like. The fish aren't lethargic or anything like that, I am just trying to know how healthy they are because I still want them to grow big (+6"), instead of staying tiny because they are stunted. Unfortunately, I can't post the picture for some reason. The page keep saying "Invalid Aquarium Fish Forum specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the" Anyway do anyone have an idea to how stunted they are?

Oh, I got it to post now. Here's the fantail:




Here's the common:





P.S. I am more concerned about the common because when my friend get it it was already big (3" without tail) and the fantail right now is 2" without tail. The fantail double in size since my friend first got him. Any advise? If they are stunted, how do I unstunt them?

 

I had a comet goldfish in a 10 gallon for 8 years no water changes until I finally got in the hobby. Once I put him in a 30 gallon with weekly water changes and high quality food, he doubled in size. Just recently turned 10 and is still growing. I don't think the goldfish you have will have any serious health issues. just focus on water quality and monitor the fish well.

 

HI there. Good for you for rescuing these guys from certain death in a tank that size. I'm guessing your friend didn't know anything about water quality and cycling? The truth is that they have probably been affected by this, whether it's stunting or a short lifespan. With stunting, there's not really much to do to unstunt them, but you can encourage healing and better development with good water quality and improved diet.

So you know, if that common isn't stunted, he's going to outgrow that tank. The fantail will be fine, and a 32g is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than what either of them were in anyway, but common and other long-bodied goldfish grow A LOT bigger than fancy varieties and often need to be placed in ponds. I think you're probably fine for now, and really you've improved their quality of life exponentially, just be prepared that common may very well outgrow the tank, and quickly too haha.

All you can do from this point is keep good water conditions and a good, varied diet. You can try adding extra vitamins to the food (VitaChem) and boost general health and immunity with Garlic Guard. A good staple pellet plus fresh veggis and also yummy frozen foods. Protein might help them pack on any mass they are missing from being crammed in a tiny tank.

 

I understand that the common will grow out of that tank and is trying to find a local pond owner that will take her. My tank is 2 week into cycling so will still take a while, so I hope that they can survive that long. Will they still grow to a decent size though? I wanted to keep the fantail, and I hope that he can at least grow to 7". I won't hate him if he don't, but it's just a personal preference. What is the recommended diet for the fish? I am giving them Nutrafin goldfish pellets because they are not big enough to eat HikarI yet. The food I give them are the pellets, algae on a rock, frozen bloodworm once every 2 weeks, cooked wild/brown rice (a few time a week), spinach and lettuce once a month (which they completely hate, for some reason). Is that a good enough diet for them? Also, I do water changes 2 times a week so the water are pretty good. Since I am cycling the 32 gallon, I am letting the algae run wild in the tank that goldfish is currently in. I figure that it will suck nutrients and be a food source. Any thoughts?

 

How big a fish grows depends on water quality, diet and genetics. Even raised under the most ideal circumstances, there's no telling for sure that they will or won't grow to a certain size. I think you will most certainly see a growth spurt. However, in a tank that small, I would recommend, rather than fishless cycling the larger tank, you get them in that tank now and use Tetra SafeStart to cycle the tank with fish. The tank they came to you in is far too small and you run a much greater risk of ammonia/nitrite poisoning and illness in that tank than by cycling the bigger tank with them in it, especially if you use Tetra SafeStart.

If you use Tetra SafeStart, there are very specific directions for using it not included on the bottle. Please post here for the specific steps so we can give them to you.

As for diet, I can recommend a few changes that might help.

1) I don't know about the Nutrafin, but I'm not a fan of Hikari. The first 3 ingredients in HikarI food is fish meal followed by two fillter products with no nutritional value. For a staple pellet, I would recommend New Life Spectrum or Omega One. If you read the ingredients on either, you'll see the difference.

2) I have never heard of people feeding boiled rice and a quick online search produced mixed results. So I can't comment on that. Can you tell me what the purported benefit of feeding the rice is? I would worry it would cause constipation but I don't actually know much about it.

3) Rather than lettuce, try other veggies. Lettuce is mostly water and doesn't have much benefit. Cucumbers, brocolli, squash, cauliflower and even a little fruit here and there is good. These foods must be boiled/blanched till they sink.

4) Do you know about feeding goldfish peas? A frozen pea, thawed out, shell removed and cut up into bite sized peas is excellent and treating and preventing constipation, which is common in fancy goldfish.

5) Spirulina algae is one of the best algae treats out there. You may want to consider algae wafers if you are going to feed algae as it will contain spirulina. I believe they also sell it in a flake.

6) Frozen bloodworms are good. As as many other frozen treats. I feed daphnia (also a laxative like peas), bloodworms, brine shrimp and, my favorite for goldfish, Emerald Entree. This is a frozen, omnivorous blend that contain everything - a variety of veggies, spirulina, shrimp, krill...I mean everything! They love it.

I also supplement my goldfishes' diets with VitaChem and Garlic Guard dose on their food in the morning and evening, respectively. VitaChem adds extra vitamins and garlic is an appetite stimulant, immune system booster and can even help treat infections.

It sounds like you're off to a good start with diet I really would just put them in the bigger tank though. It'd be one thing if they were in a 10 or 20 gallon but in a tank that tiny, they are safer in a large, cycling tank. I would just use Tetra SafeStart. The product has an excellent reputation, I've used it twice myself, including on a goldfish tank.

 

I had a comet goldfish in a 10 gallon for 8 years no water changes until I finally got in the hobby. Once I put him in a 30 gallon with weekly water changes and high quality food, he doubled in size. Just recently turned 10 and is still growing. I don't think the goldfish you have will have any serious health issues. just focus on water quality and monitor the fish well.

That is very encouraging, considering my Fantail's predicament. Did your Goldies succumb to any illnesses?

 

My goldfish are not currently sick, they are swimming around in the small tank and being goldfish. The benefit to feeding wild rice is that it provide many vital vitamins amd also help with constipation like the pea. My goldfish never had constipation, but I give it to them just in case. I will check out the omega one pellet, it seems pretty good to me. Also, I feed romaine lettuce so it is better than iceberg and I give them spinach(I heard that it is good for them). I also give them broccolI amd frozen krill, although I am not sure if they are healthy. Do you have any experience regarding that? I like your idea about cycling using the fish, but my tank is almost done cycling, so couldn't they wait for another week or two? TeteaSafestart sound like a good product. I live in Wilmette, IL, so do you know where I can get them? Do I still need it even though my tank is almost done cycling?

P.S I have no ammonia or nitrite and 30 ppm of nitrate in the small tank because I do frequent water changes.

 

Hmm I will have to research more on the rice I have never heard of that! Thanks!

Romaine lettuce is better than ice berg yes, but if they won't eat it well then you may want to try something else anyway. You can also try soaking the romaine in garlic juice or garlic guard to make it more enticing.

BrocolI is excellent as long as it is boiled first. Frozen foods like krill, brine shrimp, bloodworms and others are good to supplement diets as well, so you are doing a good job!

With the cycling you could do either way, wait to put them in till it is done or do it now. It sounds like you are on top of the water changes in the small tank.

However TSS would make it easier by sparing you the constant water changes. It is available at most major pet stores like petco. But you may be all right to wait if this is what you are comfortable with judt remember to acclimate carefully as it is likely nitrates will be much lower in the big tank.

 

Hmm I will have to research more on the rice I have never heard of that! Thanks!

Romaine lettuce is better than ice berg yes, but if they won't eat it well then you may want to try something else anyway. You can also try soaking the romaine in garlic juice or garlic guard to make it more enticing.

BrocolI is excellent as long as it is boiled first. Frozen foods like krill, brine shrimp, bloodworms and others are good to supplement diets as well, so you are doing a good job!

With the cycling you could do either way, wait to put them in till it is done or do it now. It sounds like you are on top of the water changes in the small tank.

However TSS would make it easier by sparing you the constant water changes. It is available at most major pet stores like petco. But you may be all right to wait if this is what you are comfortable with judt remember to acclimate carefully as it is likely nitrates will be much lower in the big tank.

By the way, If I add the TSS will it make the cycling faster? I just checked the levels and it seems like the cycle stalled a little. It had took me almost a month now but the stupid nitrite spike still haven't gone down yet..... My ammonia is now 2 ppm with +5 ppm nitrite and 20 ppm nitrate. Will the TSS make it faster? I wanted the cycle to be as fast as possible, because I am eager to get the fish out of the 6.6 gallon.

 

Yes. It will complete your cycle in 2 weeks maximum and during that 2 weeks you do not have to do any water changes.
I used it late in a cycle when I could not get my nitrites under control either.

It sounds like you are still awhile away on the cycle. Here Are the steps for safestart.
1. Do water changes to bring ammonia and nitrite down as close to 0ppm as you can.
2. Wait 24 hours.
3. Shake up TSS and add the whole bottle in. You cannot overdose.
4. For the next 14 days, just feed and observe your fish for signs of stress. Post any weird readings here before you do a WC unless the fish appear stressed.
5. Day 15 test if it is cycled you can begin regular maintenance. If it's close just wait a few more days.

It sounds like you are doing really well thought so do what you are comfortable with.

 

Yes. It will complete your cycle in 2 weeks maximum and during that 2 weeks you do not have to do any water changes.
I used it late in a cycle when I could not get my nitrites under control either.

It sounds like you are still awhile away on the cycle. Here Are the steps for safestart.
1. Do water changes to bring ammonia and nitrite down as close to 0ppm as you can.
2. Wait 24 hours.
3. Shake up TSS and add the whole bottle in. You cannot overdose.
4. For the next 14 days, just feed and observe your fish for signs of stress. Post any weird readings here before you do a WC unless the fish appear stressed.
5. Day 15 test if it is cycled you can begin regular maintenance. If it's close just wait a few more days.

It sounds like you are doing really well thought so do what you are comfortable with.

I just got the TSS from Petco. Just a thought, wouldn't cycling with fish damage them by exposing them to high ammonia and nitrite? I don't want to get into all these trouble buying the tank and cycling only to have them die in it.

 

The point of TSS is to avoid spikes, when used correctly. I have seen it go wrong, but everything I used it, it worked beautifully. I stress the when used correctly part. But first you need to bring down the ammonia and nitrite that's in the tank with lots of water changes. This is required when switching to a TSS cycle. Ultimately you have a decision to make.

I do not want to tell you what to do and I certainly don't want to stress that you change something when you have a system in place that's working. If you feel your cycle has stalled, and it may still be awhile before they can get out of that tiny tank, I would recommend TSS. But, you are doing really well maintaining the little tank until you get the big one cycled too and you are to be commended for your diligence, seriously. So it really is about trusting your gut. There is no truly wrong decision here. It is about what YOU feel comfortable with.

1) How big are the goldies in the little tank?

2) Is it Tetra SafeStart Plus or regular Tetra SafeStart?

3) What size bottle did you get?

 

1) The common is 3" and the fantail is 2"
2) Tetra SafeStart Plus (It's the only one I can get, does it work too?)
3) 3.38 oz. The bottle say it's for 40 gallon and I figure that the more the better.

Also, how do you use correctly? According to the bottle, I just dump the whole thing in a wait a while, then I add fish. If it won't hurt my fish, I am more comfortable doing the TSS method since it's faster (I think?). My gut is busy digesting my dinner, so I am using my brain here: Tetra SafeStart seems like a pretty good product. I already had a bacteria in a bottle that is called "StartSmart Complete" that is completely snake oil so far. I dumped the whole bottle in(16 oz) and added a little ammonia and pray that it work. I just checked and the ammonia went from 2 ppm to 0 ppm within hours, and the nitrite is off the chart. The nitrate is 20 ppm. What do you suggest? I have no experience regarding this matter so I am putting the life of my fish on your hand.

 

Tetra SafeStart Plus is just a more concentrated version of regular SafeStart, I'm actually glad you got that one. And 3.38oz bottle is good.

I'm not sure about StartSmart Complete. I wish I could help you more there, I'm just not sure about it. If you're saying that your ammonia dropped that fast, well, that's good. But really high nitrites can inhibit the cycle too, so you probably need to bring them down. I'm not terribly experienced with fishless cycling so you may want to put up another post about that so people who have done it before can help you. Certain bottled bacteria products contain the wrong bacteria that work really well but die in about 7 days and require re-dosing. What's more is they out-compete the natural bacteria and prevent your cycle from ever happening naturally and being self-sustaining. I do not know that SmartStart is one of these products, however.

When did you add the SmartStart? Did your ammonia drop after you added it or was that a separate event? I'm trying to figure what's going on here.

If you go the TSS route, these are the steps...

1) Your levels need to be as close to 0ppm as possible when adding TSS. Do a large water change or multiple large water changes to get them down.
2) Wait 24 hours. Water conditioners can kill the bacteria in the TSS bottle. You must wait at least 24 hours for them to dissipate before adding.
3) After 24 hours, shake up TSS and dump the whole bottle in.
4) For the next 14 days, no water changes and no extra water conditioner. Just feed your fish, watch for signs of stress, test your levels. Some people recommend you don' test them because TSS can produce faulty readings. I always test daily when I use it, just to be safe.
5) Day 15, test your levels. 0 ammonia/nitrite and a nitrate reading means it's cycled. You can begin regular maintenance. If it's close but not quite there then you can wait a few more days.

Before I make a suggestion, I want to make sure I understand what's going on in your tank.

1) When did you add the SmartStart Complete?

 

I start using SmartStart Complete from the very beginning of the cycle, and in all my other tanks as well. I don't know if it do anything in my other tanks however in this tank it did absolutely nothing. I waited a while after adding ammonia and it didn't even change for a week. I seed the tank after that with filter media and gravel from the small tank. I added too much ammonia at first, so that might be why there are so much ammonia-eating bacteria. I did seed my tank with filter media and gravel from the small tank, now I think about it. They probably contain lots of ammonia bacteria because goldfish are massive ammonia producers. If I do the TSS method, would the fishless cycle work better though? Even though the fish have to stay in the tank a little longer, they are not exposed to high ammonia and nitrite so won't be damaged.

BY THE WAY! I just read an article about Tetra SafeStart and it say that any water conditioner that remove chloramine kill TSS! I have StressCoat Water conditioner and the bottle say that it remove chloramine too! What water conditioner do you use, and do you think that StressCoat will kill TSS?

 

I start using SmartStart Complete from the very beginning of the cycle, and in all my other tanks as well. I don't know if it do anything in my other tanks however in this tank it did absolutely nothing. I waited a while after adding ammonia and it didn't even change for a week. I seed the tank after that with filter media and gravel from the small tank. I added too much ammonia at first, so that might be why there are so much ammonia-eating bacteria. I did seed my tank with filter media and gravel from the small tank, now I think about it. They probably contain lots of ammonia bacteria because goldfish are massive ammonia producers. If I do the TSS method, would the fishless cycle work better though? Even though the fish have to stay in the tank a little longer, they are not exposed to high ammonia and nitrite so won't be damaged.

BY THE WAY! I just read an article about Tetra SafeStart and it say that any water conditioner that remove chloramine kill TSS! I have StressCoat Water conditioner and the bottle say that it remove chloramine too! What water conditioner do you use, and do you think that StressCoat will kill TSS?

LWormy, can you post a link to the article that you are referencing ? Essentially, water conditioners that treat chloramine break it down to ammonia which then bond to the ammonia to protect your fish. These products won't kill the beneficial bacteria in TSS, but can starve it from the ammonia/nitrite it needs to oxidize into energy.

Your goldfish size will also depend on how your fish were treated during their first year of development. This, diet, water quality and genetics determines the end result size of your fish. Continue providing them with good water quality and food. Best of luck.

 

Ha there's a bit of an age-old debate with TSS. Do you see, where I gave you the steps, where I said wait 24 hours between water change and adding TSS? That's why. It's unclear whether these water conditioners are only ones that bind ammonia like Prime or if they mean all water conditioners in general. So we recommend the 24 hour period for everyone which will allow the product to dissipate. I would be interested to see that article, however, as well.

It sounds like the SmartStart didn't do much, you are right. However, you did just mention that your ammonia levels had a significant drop in a few hours,so you may already be well on your way. In which case, I might just keep it simple and do what you are doing. If you find yourself getting frustrated or taking too long, you have the TSS on hand as well.

Either way, you're not really doing anything "wrong", so I'm finding it difficult to tell that you should do this or should do that. It's just a choice - you can finish fishless cycling or you can use TSS. Haha. I know that's not very helpful. But when I made the TSS recommendation I thought you had just started cycling the tank and it was still a long while away, but it sounds like you are almost done. It's really just a personal choice.

 

Ha there's a bit of an age-old debate with TSS. Do you see, where I gave you the steps, where I said wait 24 hours between water change and adding TSS? That's why. It's unclear whether these water conditioners are only ones that bind ammonia like Prime or if they mean all water conditioners in general. So we recommend the 24 hour period for everyone which will allow the product to dissipate. I would be interested to see that article, however, as well.

It sounds like the SmartStart didn't do much, you are right. However, you did just mention that your ammonia levels had a significant drop in a few hours,so you may already be well on your way. In which case, I might just keep it simple and do what you are doing. If you find yourself getting frustrated or taking too long, you have the TSS on hand as well.

Either way, you're not really doing anything "wrong", so I'm finding it difficult to tell that you should do this or should do that. It's just a choice - you can finish fishless cycling or you can use TSS. Haha. I know that's not very helpful. But when I made the TSS recommendation I thought you had just started cycling the tank and it was still a long while away, but it sounds like you are almost done. It's really just a personal choice.

if I am almost done, why is my nitrite still so high? Should I do a WC to bring it down?

 

How high is the nitrite?

 

The nitrite is off the chart. I need to decide whether or not to add the fish today, so I need to ask you a few questions.
1) Can I fishless cycle with TSS?
2)Will the high nitrite hurt TSS? Should I bring it down with WC?
3) Can you list the pros and cons for TSS method and Fishless cycle method?

 

1. Yes, TSS is designed for fishless cycles.
2. High nitrite won't exactly "hurt" TSS, but it will make it harder and more time-comsuming for TSS to do its thing. How high is high?
3.
TSS Pro: Add your fish right away to the larger tank. Faster than fishless to complete the cycle process.
TSS Con: Life. Make a mistake and a fish might die. Cycle formed in TSS cycle is not as strong as one you get in a fishless cycle.

Fishless Pro: Your cycle will be built like an iron tank. No potential for loss of a fish.
Fishless Con: Takes time and a decent amount of work. The fish are stuck in that 6 gallon for another month or so.

 

1. Yes, TSS is designed for fishless cycles.
2. High nitrite won't exactly "hurt" TSS, but it will make it harder and more time-comsuming for TSS to do its thing. How high is high?
3.
TSS Pro: Add your fish right away to the larger tank. Faster than fishless to complete the cycle process.
TSS Con: Life. Make a mistake and a fish might die. Cycle formed in TSS cycle is not as strong as one you get in a fishless cycle.

Fishless Pro: Your cycle will be built like an iron tank. No potential for loss of a fish.
Fishless Con: Takes time and a decent amount of work. The fish are stuck in that 6 gallon for another month or so.

My nitrite is off the chart high. Would you recommend bringing it down with a huge water change? If I use TSS, will my cycle be NEVER as good as the fishless? If I fishless cycle with TSS, wouldn't I have both the speed of the TSS AND the power of the fishless cycle?



You're from Chicago too!

 

If it's off the chart, yes. Do a WC. But you can't combine a fishless cycle with TSS. It won't really work. As far as the cycle strength, I suppose they'll be comparable enough in time.

 

1) Fish less cycling with TSS is not recommended as far as I know but I do not know thay it cannot be used for it.
2) I believe really high nitrite like you are describing can hurt all bacteria not just TSS. So you may need to bring it down either way. But yes to do TSS cycle all levels would have to start off as close to 0ppm as you can get it.
3) I have never fish less cycled before but it is obviously the only 100% safe way to cycle a tank. I have heard it can take awhile, that's the con and eith nitrites so high you may still need a couple more weeks from what I have read of other's experiences. TSS works in 14 days if used correctlby and you can add your fish. It does on some occasions fail either due to user error or on RARE occasions a bad bottle.

I have cycled both tanks with TSS. Once it was complete given a little time the goldie tank is unshakable. In the betta tank I had to use meds and the cycle still didn't fail. So it gets stronger in time. Normally I would say finish your fish less but you have kind of big fish in a tiny tank so it's kind of picking whatever you feel is the safest for them.

 

https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfishforum/threads/q-a-with-tetra-about-tetra-safestart.58116/

 

1) Fish less cycling with TSS is not recommended as far as I know but I do not know thay it cannot be used for it.
2) I believe really high nitrite like you are describing can hurt all bacteria not just TSS. So you may need to bring it down either way. But yes to do TSS cycle all levels would have to start off as close to 0ppm as you can get it.
3) I have never fish less cycled before but it is obviously the only 100% safe way to cycle a tank. I have heard it can take awhile, that's the con and eith nitrites so high you may still need a couple more weeks from what I have read of other's experiences. TSS works in 14 days if used correctlby and you can add your fish. It does on some occasions fail either due to user error or on RARE occasions a bad bottle.

I have cycled both tanks with TSS. Once it was complete given a little time the goldie tank is unshakable. In the betta tank I had to use meds and the cycle still didn't fail. So it gets stronger in time. Normally I would say finish your fish less but you have kind of big fish in a tiny tank so it's kind of picking whatever you feel is the safest for them.

I think I'll go with TSS and cycle with fish.
1) If I have fish in it how much ammonia and nitrite can they endure?
2)Also, if water conditioner kill TSS, wouldn't I kill them off every time I do a WC?
3) Will I need to do frequent water changes during the process? I don't have that much time to change water all the time, and lugging buckets of water around is not my idea of fun. If I DO have to do frequent water changes, I might want to change my mind.

 

Read through the steps I gave you in post #14.

It will answer all of those questions. Follow those steps to the letter and you should be fine.

 

I understand the answer for 2 of my questions now. But for question 2, I meant that if water conditioner kill TSS, once I start doing regular WC after the cycle I'll have to add the water conditioner every time to get rid of the chlorinamine/chlorine. If I do that, and the established TSS is in the tank, will they die or no?

 

No. I have done countless water changes since doing TSS cycle. Once established they are fine. The cycle is permanent barring human error upset.

 

I understand the answer for 2 of my questions now. But for question 2, I meant that if water conditioner kill TSS, once I start doing regular WC after the cycle I'll have to add the water conditioner every time to get rid of the chlorinamine/chlorine. If I do that, and the established TSS is in the tank, will they die or no?

HI LWormy, I've answered your question in post 16. Thanks.

 

No. Once you're into a pattern of doing routine water changes on a cycled tank, you just add Prime to the new water (or directly into the tank if you use a water changer like Python or Aqueon) and off you go. TSS is a bacteria source for new tanks. It can also be used in specific situations with established tanks, but that's not really important at the moment. It's a source of bacteria to make a tank inhabitable for fish. Your tank will begin to cultivate its own bacteria as it matures. Adding treated water to the tank will not harm the bacteria. Adding untreated water almost always will harm the bacteria. Does that help?

 

I think I'll go with TSS and cycle with fish.
1) If I have fish in it how much ammonia and nitrite can they endure?
2)Also, if water conditioner kill TSS, wouldn't I kill them off every time I do a WC?
3) Will I need to do frequent water changes during the process? I don't have that much time to change water all the time, and lugging buckets of water around is not my idea of fun. If I DO have to do frequent water changes, I might want to change my mind.

1. No amount is 100% safe.

If you do a large water change with conditioned water before you add the TSS (wait 24 hrs after the water change), you will lower the ammonia and nitrite levels. Test your source water and tank water to get a baseline. If you have very low pH, < 6.4 ish, cycling is very difficult. If you have ammonia, nitrite or nitrates in your source water, you will see their presence in the tank water until processes by the beneficial bacteria. Tank water is tested either immediately before a water change or 24 hrs later to get accurate results.

2. Water conditioner only disrupts bb (beneficial bacteria) that is newly added from the bottle.

Once the bb is established in the filter and you are cycled, the bb will be somewhat fragile, but gradually become more robust. As a precaution, you could get the water and treat and store it for 24 hrs before using it in a water change.

3. No water changes (with TSS) for 2 weeks, unless the fish are showing stress. If you have to do a water change, i.e. if the ammonia is > 1.0-1.5 ppm steady for 24 hrs- you can do the water change then start over with another bottle of TSS and repeat the cycling process.

Good Luck!

 

Yes! Thank you very much! I will change out all the water today and start cycling with my fish tomorrow! I also have the 6.6 gallon running, so if anything happen to my fish (i.e. high ammonia/nitrite) it I can put them back in there until I solve the problem.

To Rivieraneo: I asked about the level of ammonia and nitrite goldfish can endure, but I can't find the answer to that in you post. I still need to find that answer so if the level get too high I'll do WC.

 

Yes! Thank you very much! I will change out all the water today and start cycling with my fish tomorrow! I also have the 6.6 gallon running, so if anything happen to my fish (i.e. high ammonia/nitrite) it I can put them back in there until I solve the problem.

To Rivieraneo: I asked about the level of ammonia and nitrite goldfish can endure, but I can't find the answer to that in you post. I still need to find that answer so if the level get too high I'll do WC.

Not to speak for Riv, but the amount they can endure is really zero. AI'm for zero, or as close to zero as possible. Do you use Prime to condition the water? If not, what do you use? I ask because Prime (which most of us use) temporarily binds ammonia and nitrite so they're not toxic to fish but still available as a food source for your bacteria. It does not remove ammonia or nitrites. Both will still show up when up when you test. That's why you add Prime, wait 24 hours, add TSS, and do nothing for two weeks.

 

The benefit to feeding wild rice is that it provide many vital vitamins amd also help with constipation like the pea. My goldfish never had constipation, but I give it to them just in case.

Do you mean what we in US call wild rice?

Chinese give their children very watery, very overcooked rice in case of DIARHEA

 

I use StressCoat, not Prime. I don't know if getting Prime is an option for me, because I am running low on budget. If I cycle with fish, they will certainly be exposed to ammonia and/or nitrite at some level, right? Suggestions?

 

I think Stress Coat just takes care of the heavy metals in the water. It's Stress Coat Plus that does the ammonia and nitrites. I believe. As far as the budget concerns, I get what you're saying. But one of the nice features of Prime is how little you have to use. One bottle lasts a long, long time.

 

Ok, final question: If I cycle the tank with my goldfish, will they die or no? How high of the ammonia or nitrite reading is fatal to the fish and require WC?

 

When I did the TSS cycle on my betta tank I saw no spikes. Not one. But I have heard it is possible. But the spikes are usually not too high and not sustained long enough to do damage. I think those fish probably endured far worse levels before you rescued them!

I believe tetra says if a level of 1.5 is sustained for more than 24 hours then the cycle may have failed. There is no set level for fatality though obviously the higher the reading the more dangerous. Just observe for any signs of distress. When I cycled my goldfish tank I did it with the fish and did not use TSS till well into the nitrite phase (lots of WC and amquel plus). It is not something I recommend at all but my point is your fish are not going to die the instant levels hit a certain height. You will see signs of stress first at which point you test the water and so a water change if needed.

 

When I used TSS, I never saw any nitrite. Others have had similar experiences on this site.

The fish produce ammonia, that the BB need to survive. So, after the large water change (or, multiple smaller water changes...then wait the 24 hrs, etc.), 24 hr wait (levels will be lower/0ppm).
Fish must be added within 20-40 min (or before) of the TSS.

If the fish are not added, there will be no ammonia source and the BB will die off due to starvation.

Feed fish sparingly during the cycling so as not to add extra ammonia to the tank (via fish processing food). Goldfish are known to be large ammonia producers.

If you monitor the tank water parameters, and the ammonia is sustained at 1.0-1.5 for 24 hrs (not just a spike), you should do a water change and then start the cycle with another bottle of TSS. Also, in the rare even this does happen, recheck your pH. If if is < 6.4 ish, cycling is very difficult.