How to do a fishless cycle without Dr. Tims or fish food

I'm cycling a 10g shrimp tank fishless right now. If you live in Canada and don't have access to Dr. Tims, but don't want to mess around with rotting fish food, Aquavitro by Seachem makes a product called Aquavitro Synthesis. It is a Nitrogen supplement that contains N as ammonia, urea, and nitrate.

Although ammonia is excreted by fish directly, small amounts of urea is too, and there is a process by which urea is converted to ammonia. Cycles completed with pure ammonia skip this first part, so there is often a short stall after live fish are added. Synthesis contains 0.25 ppm ammonia, 0.25 ppm nitrate, and 0.5 ppm urea per dose, so this problem is avoided. It is also nice because the urea will convert into ammonia to continue feeding the cycle.

I dosed my tank with 2 ppm ammonia using Synthesis, which ended up being 2mL or so for 10g, and added one single ceramic bead from another cycled tank. I will continue to dose it until my tank is mature enough for shrimp because it is fairly cheap and comes in a 500mL bottle.

Hope this is helpful!

 

Pfrozen definitely very helpful ! I’ve never heard of it but won’t forget, as I’m from Canada and was never able to find any ammonia...

 

Pfrozen
I'm not familiar with your other tank/tanks but why not just move some fiter media over to the shrimp tank for an instant cycle?
Or add filter media to your existing tank for a couple weeks then move it to the shrimp tank?

If the purpose of the thread was simply to inform members about the product you found, ignore my comment

 

The majority of ammonia excreted by freshwater fish is ammonia. Urea still needs to be converted via urease which probably requires bacteria with that enzyme to grow. Thus, it adds an extra step.

 

The majority of ammonia excreted by freshwater fish is ammonia. Urea still needs to be converted via urease which probably requires bacteria with that enzyme to grow. Thus, it adds an extra step.

Thanks for the clarification Dave I'll change that in a sec

Pfrozen
I'm not familiar with your other tank/tanks but why not just move some fiter media over to the shrimp tank for an instant cycle?
Or add filter media to your existing tank for a couple weeks then move it to the shrimp tank?

If the purpose of the thread was simply to inform members about the product you found, ignore my comment

lol all good just trying to inform people mainly. I have plants in there and the Synthesis is a fertilizer anyways so by adding one bead I can just forget about it and it should be cycled by the time its mature enough to add shrimp to. If I was in a hurry I would for sure those things though, I always instant cycle my tanks now for the most part

 

Good to know because it is hard to get amonia in Canada. The dollar store stuff took cups to get up to 3ppm.

 

Some old gen fish keepers used to pee in their aquariums to cycle it, I know it is gross but supposedly urine contains lots of nitrogen

 

Some old gen fish keepers used to pee in their aquariums to cycle it, I know it is gross but supposedly urine contains lots of nitrogen

Lol @ the thought of peeing directly into a fish tank. I'm pretty sure ammonia was available on the shelf everywhere back then too haha, why

 

Some old gen fish keepers used to pee in their aquariums to cycle it, I know it is gross but supposedly urine contains lots of nitrogen

 

Some old gen fish keepers used to pee in their aquariums to cycle it, I know it is gross but supposedly urine contains lots of nitrogen

Urine is mostly urea also but maybe this step in the cycle goes faster than others.

 

Some old gen fish keepers used to pee in their aquariums to cycle it, I know it is gross but supposedly urine contains lots of nitrogen

Could it be cause these old fishkeepers couldn't hold till they reached the toilet hahahaha. Every year there are several threads about cats peeing in a new tank that needs cycling. Thank you cats.

 

In Lithuania the way to get ammonia is a pharmacy. They sell 10% ammonia solution as a hand skin softener. That's what I cycled my tank with.

 

I use botanicals and leaves for cycling. (Oh, what a surprise.... )

 

I use botanicals and leaves for cycling. (Oh, what a surprise.... )

I remember a guy using soil from the forrest to do so. We'll call you Mr.Leaf Mike.
Remembering my promiss to send you the article from PFK. Next week !

 

Ammonium chloride seems to be available in Canada.

 

I remember a guy using soil from the forrest to do so. We'll call you Mr.Leaf Mike.
Remembering my promiss to send you the article from PFK. Next week !

Mr. Leaf sounds ok to me.
Oh, yes! The article! Definitely still interested!

 

Keep us updated on your progress Pfrozen this is quite interesting. I've always done the traditional ammonia (Fritz, but same idea as Dr Tims), but always wondered about the urea on some of my reading and how thats an important part missed.

 

I use botanicals and leaves for cycling. (Oh, what a surprise.... )

I didn't even realize you could use leaves haha. That sounds like a much more natural way of setting up a blackwater tank

Ammonium chloride seems to be available in Canada.

Nice, it seems you can order it for sheep and goats and stuff haha. Seems a bit pricey but I didn't realize it was available at all

 

I normally use a high-protein fish food to cycle tanks for a couple of weeks and the switch over to a fish-in cycle using hardy fish. Some people even put a small piece of frozen fish or shrimp into the tank to start the cycle.

The reason I like to start with fish food is that by starting with protein you are also developing colonies of bacteria that convert protein to urea and then to ammonia which then begins what fishkeepers think of as the nitrogen cycle. However, in an aquarium, the process does not begin with ammonia, but with food that we feed to our fish. Thus, it is good to have a full complement of bacterial colonies in the tanks. If you start with pure ammonia or ammonium chloride, you will be growing the bacteria that convert ammonia to nitrite and nitrite to nitrate, but you will not be developing the sludge eating bacteria that are also needed.

 

I didn't even realize you could use leaves haha. That sounds like a much more natural way of setting up a blackwater tank

It is, but it also takes longer than the other methods. My main tank took 6 weeks of just being left standing there with leaves, cones, plants and snails.

 

The reason I like to start with fish food is that by starting with protein you are also developing colonies of bacteria that convert protein to urea and then to ammonia which then begins what fishkeepers think of as the nitrogen cycle. However, in an aquarium, the process does not begin with ammonia, but with food that we feed to our fish. Thus, it is good to have a full complement of bacterial colonies in the tanks. If you start with pure ammonia or ammonium chloride, you will be growing the bacteria that convert ammonia to nitrite and nitrite to nitrate, but you will not be developing the sludge eating bacteria that are also needed.

No, it really starts with ammonia that diffuses out of the gills. That's 80-90% of the nitrogen excretion.

 

It is, but it also takes longer than the other methods. My main tank took 6 weeks of just being left standing there with leaves, cones, plants and snails.

That is longer than my fish-in cycles with TSS but not terribly long, some people here have used Dr. Tim's and spent longer than 6 weeks still I might try the leaf method in the future, I still do have a bunch of empty tanks to set up

 

That is longer than my fish-in cycles with TSS but not terribly long, some people here have used Dr. Tim's and spent longer than 6 weeks still I might try the leaf method in the future, I still do have a bunch of empty tanks to set up

I have always done just fishless-cycling, just as I learned it back in the day.

Cycling with botanicals doesn't need much. Just scape, plant and add leaves. I used 2 hands full of maple and birch leaves that rot very fast. I had bladder snails as hitchhikers in my first plants in that tank, that helped breaking the stuff down. I just let them do their thing. They didn't multiply exponentially, so I then just picked them off one by one whenever possible and after 2 months I was snail-free. I later added a species I wanted instead.

 

I have always done just fishless-cycling, just as I learned it back in the day.

Cycling with botanicals doesn't need much. Just scape, plant and add leaves. I used 2 hands full of maple and birch leaves that rot very fast. I had bladder snails as hitchhikers in my first plants in that tank, that helped breaking the stuff down. I just let them do their thing. They didn't multiply exponentially, so I then just picked them off one by one whenever possible and after 2 months I was snail-free. I later added a species I wanted instead.

nice, I actually have maple, birch, oak, and alder trees all around me since they are native to my area I have had the opposite luck with bladder snails unfortunately.. I like to feed heavy so there were hundreds in my last tank and removing them manually didn't help lol. I've noticed a few in this new tank so I might stock some assassin snails this week just to be proactive, maybe not enough to totally take them out but enough to account for my feeding practices anyways

 

nice, I actually have maple, birch, oak, and alder trees all around me since they are native to my area I have had the opposite luck with bladder snails unfortunately.. I like to feed heavy so there were hundreds in my last tank and removing them manually didn't help lol. I've noticed a few in this new tank so I might stock some assassin snails this week just to be proactive, maybe not enough to totally take them out but enough to account for my feeding practices anyways

Yeah, a dozen Assassins should be enough for the time being.

When collecting leaves remember to look for trees as far away from roads as possible.

 

No, it really starts with ammonia that diffuses out of the gills. That's 80-90% of the nitrogen excretion.

Yes, that's true, but if you do not feed you fish protein, no ammonia will be excreted.

 

Update:

I let it run for 3 days, then redosed with 2ppm ammonia, and let it run for another 3 days....

I don't remember if I posted this thread on the day I set my tank up or the day after so we'll say its been a week I guess... I dosed 4ppm ammonia total and right now its sitting at 0.75ppm

so its definitely doing stuff lol. I can probably stock it in a week or so

 

Some old gen fish keepers used to pee in their aquariums to cycle it, I know it is gross but supposedly urine contains lots of nitrogen

Not really as gross when you think about it. Pee is primarily sterile, and seems to be a cleaner option than rotting fish food.
Hmmm, there is an idea for the next tank

 

So how does the amonium chloride work? Has someone done the math so I can just mix up a standard solution?

 

So how does the amonium chloride work? Has someone done the math so I can just mix up a standard solution?

When ammonium chloride dissolves in water, it produces ammonium ions and chloride ions. If the pH is below 6, the ammonium ions will stay primarily in the ammonium state. However, as the pH increases, a portion of the ammonium ions will convert to ammonia. The percentage of ammonia and ammonium ions depends upon the pH. Thus, when you add ammonium chloride to your tank, you end up adding ammonia as well. However, the bacteria responsible for the nitrogen cycle will convert either ammonium ion or ammonia to nitrite.

When you test for ammonia using a test kit like the one from API, you are measuring both ammonium ion and ammonia. The first test reagent used increases the pH of the test sample such that any ammonium ion is converted to ammonia. The second test agent then reacts with the ammonia to give a colorimetric result.

 

I'm cycling a 10g shrimp tank fishless right now. If you live in Canada and don't have access to Dr. Tims, but don't want to mess around with rotting fish food, Aquavitro by Seachem makes a product called Aquavitro Synthesis. It is a Nitrogen supplement that contains N as ammonia, urea, and nitrate.

Although ammonia is excreted by fish directly, small amounts of urea is too, and there is a process by which urea is converted to ammonia. Cycles completed with pure ammonia skip this first part, so there is often a short stall after live fish are added. Synthesis contains 0.25 ppm ammonia, 0.25 ppm nitrate, and 0.5 ppm urea per dose, so this problem is avoided. It is also nice because the urea will convert into ammonia to continue feeding the cycle.

I dosed my tank with 2 ppm ammonia using Synthesis, which ended up being 2mL or so for 10g, and added one single ceramic bead from another cycled tank. I will continue to dose it until my tank is mature enough for shrimp because it is fairly cheap and comes in a 500mL bottle.

Hope this is helpful!

I just cycled a 20 gallon tank without using ammonia from a bottle. I put a ton of cheap fish flakes in a knee high pantyhose, tied a knot in it, and hooked it under the tank lid so it laid in the water. It worked like a charm. I didn't have to do anything but wait for the cycle to finish, then I removed the super-gross stocking and tossed it. Good luck!

 

I just cycled a 20 gallon tank without using ammonia from a bottle. I put a ton of cheap fish flakes in a knee high pantyhose, tied a knot in it, and hooked it under the tank lid so it laid in the water. It worked like a charm. I didn't have to do anything but wait for the cycle to finish, then I removed the super-gross stocking and tossed it. Good luck!

The point of this guide is to NOT use fish food in case you missed it lol. Of course you can use fish food if you want, its a perfectly valid method.

Update:

I added 1 more ceramic bead from my other tank, a shot of mulm, and 1 ppm ammonia two days ago. Today's reading is 0.25 ppm ammonia.

I'm guessing it'll read yellow tomorrow.. if it does I'll test for nitrites. If they both read 0 I'll do a water change and stock a couple dither fish to keep things going

 

The point of this guide is to NOT use fish food in case you missed it lol. Of course you can use fish food if you want, its a perfectly valid method.

Update:

I added 1 more ceramic bead from my other tank, a shot of mulm, and 1 ppm ammonia two days ago. Today's reading is 0.25 ppm ammonia.

I'm guessing it'll read yellow tomorrow.. if it does I'll test for nitrites. If they both read 0 I'll do a water change and stock a couple dither fish to keep things going

I guess I assumed that the problem with using fish food is the mess it makes. So, I was just suggesting a way to get the benefit of ammonia from fish food without the mess it makes of the substrate.

 

I guess I assumed that the problem with using fish food is the mess it makes. So, I was just suggesting a way to get the benefit of ammonia from fish food without the mess it makes of the substrate.

Aaah right that makes sense. The issue is more about consistency... you can't really dose a specific ppm of ammonia with it

 

Lol so I read 0 ammonia this morning, went to test nitrites and burst out laughing. It was like... comically purple. Who even knows what the reading was. 5ppm maybe?

So weird. I've never had nitrite spikes in any of my tanks. I guess there's something different about using bottled ammonia after all. pretty interesting stuff!

added a couple gallon of water and dosed 0.5 ppm ammonia to keep things going. if it doesnt resolve itself in 2 days ill do a full water change