5 Gallon Tank How to cycle a patio pond without filter?

[brahms]

I'm planning to set up medaka patio pond with just 4 fish, 5 gallon pot with no filter. I'm planning to do only with plants with water lily and some floating plants.
Currently I'm attempting on raising pH as it's at 6.2.

Question is, does it need to go through nitrogen cycle process to establish the bacteria for the conversion? or are the fishes good to go after conditioning and adding Stability?

 

[FishDin]

It needs to by cycled. Do not trust bacteria in a bottle. If you choose to use it, don't trust it. Test as if you are doing a fish-in cycle. Test daily and do water changes as needed.

Bacteria in a bottle is hit-or-miss. You will know in a few days if it's working, but if it's not, you will need to proceed as a fish-in cycle.

 

[Blacksheep1]

Do you have another tank you can use media and decor/plants from to kick start the process ?

 

[SparkyJones]

Well at 6.2pH it doesn't really need to be cycled, most all ammonia will be as ammonium, and non-toxic like that.
But if the pH comes up some at a later time like from rainfall and some acidity, then it will have a problem. What's the reason for the 6.2 pH? Is it low KH?

However, you can add the water substrate and plants and then do nothing for a month, come back, check for algae, mosquito, maybe tadpoles, see what it's doing and if life has moved in naturally, and doing well.
You can dose like 2ppm ammonia, that's gonna kill off the tadpoles and mosquito, see how long it takes to cycle out to nitrates, and if reasonable, water change and add your fish.

Do a water change if the ammonia isn't becoming nitrates, and wait another month.
or just wait two months and it should be completely cycled, a safe bet.

in all honesty, the less you go out of your way to rush things on an outdoor pond with supplements and manipulations, the better it becomes on it's own naturally and the less you need to do to maintain it.

I put 5 gallons of chlorine in my pool each week, and every week later, I have algae, mosquitos and tadpoles bouncing back again. I need to get the gunk out of the bottom, that's what's doing it, the chlorine getting used up on the "mulm build up" and also offgassing (oxidizing) from the sunlight, and in under a week life can live there again. yeah it's 15,000 gallons of water or so but same principle applies, do nothing and wait, and nature will do it all for you.

Easy for my pool to be a pond, really hard for me to make it and keep it a pool, just neglect it and life will move into it and cycle it.

 

[Flyfisha]

Hi brahms
I have 6 outdoor containers of medaka and 7 indoor tanks with juveniles from last summer ( Australian time zone )
The question of cycling a medaka outdoor container.
This is always going to confuse many people.
It is true that most containers of water will eventually have a nitrogen cycle working in them given enough time . What is not fully understood is the conditions medaka are kept in? .
With the cold water and low PH recommended ammonia is almost harmless as it becomes ammonium .

A large amount of plants will consume the toxic waste.

As difficult as it is for aquarium keepers to understand no cycle is needed if you have a cool climate. If you have a low PH in your tap water that is also a help. A chart on the relationship between PH and temperature in regards to the maximum safe level of ammonia/ ammonium.


A 6,2 PH is fine don’t try and change it.
All water must be conditioned / have a de chlorinator added.

Although this is my first winter with these guys I feel confident you will succeed in breeding if you start today .
A couple of snapshots.







edit to add a link to a good resource channel brahms

I look forward to seeing some pictures of your first fry.

 

[brahms]

Do you have another tank you can use media and decor/plants from to kick start the process ?

I do have 50 gal tank with 2 canisters, should I get some media in along with fresh gravel bed?

 

[Blacksheep1]

Yeah any media at all will help kick start it off for you.

 

[brahms]

Hi brahms
I have 6 outdoor containers of medaka and 7 indoor tanks with juveniles from last summer ( Australian time zone )
The question of cycling a medaka outdoor container.
This is always going to confuse many people.
It is true that most containers of water will eventually have a nitrogen cycle working in them given enough time . What is not fully understood is the conditions medaka are kept in? .
With the cold water and low PH recommended ammonia is almost harmless as it becomes ammonium .

A large amount of plants will consume the toxic waste.

As difficult as it is for aquarium keepers to understand no cycle is needed if you have a cool climate. If you have a low PH in your tap water that is also a help. A chart on the relationship between PH and temperature in regards to the maximum safe level of ammonia/ ammonium.


A 6,2 PH is fine don’t try and change it.
All water must be conditioned / have a de chlorinator added.

Although this is my first winter with these guys I feel confident you will succeed in breeding if you start today .
A couple of snapshots.







edit to add a link to a good resource channel brahms

I look forward to seeing some pictures of your first fry.

Hi flyfisha, those are incredible medaka setups. Wish I had no restriction on going extreme.

It's summer most of the month and the water's always colder than room temperature (25C) outside as it doesnt get full blown sunlight.

Tap pH is 7.0. I'm guessing it's the clay soil on Water Lily that has been affecting the pH level, making it slightly acidic.

I hope to see them surviving and expanding the family.

Well at 6.2pH it doesn't really need to be cycled, most all ammonia will be as ammonium, and non-toxic like that.
But if the pH comes up some at a later time like from rainfall and some acidity, then it will have a problem. What's the reason for the 6.2 pH? Is it low KH?

However, you can add the water substrate and plants and then do nothing for a month, come back, check for algae, mosquito, maybe tadpoles, see what it's doing and if life has moved in naturally, and doing well.
You can dose like 2ppm ammonia, that's gonna kill off the tadpoles and mosquito, see how long it takes to cycle out to nitrates, and if reasonable, water change and add your fish.

Do a water change if the ammonia isn't becoming nitrates, and wait another month.
or just wait two months and it should be completely cycled, a safe bet.

in all honesty, the less you go out of your way to rush things on an outdoor pond with supplements and manipulations, the better it becomes on it's own naturally and the less you need to do to maintain it.

I put 5 gallons of chlorine in my pool each week, and every week later, I have algae, mosquitos and tadpoles bouncing back again. I need to get the gunk out of the bottom, that's what's doing it, the chlorine getting used up on the "mulm build up" and also offgassing (oxidizing) from the sunlight, and in under a week life can live there again. yeah it's 15,000 gallons of water or so but same principle applies, do nothing and wait, and nature will do it all for you.

Easy for my pool to be a pond, really hard for me to make it and keep it a pool, just neglect it and life will move into it and cycle it.

Reason for acidity is likely clay soil on Water Lily. Natural pH for tap water is 7.0.

I have applied bb from Seachem, Stability once in my 50 gallon tank. It turned out well at first 7 days, completing in a month and 1 week. I'm hoping it'd help kick start. I will keep an eye on water parameter and wait to see any living species blooming. Hopefully I wont get mosquito larvae explosion. As it goes wild if there is any stagnant water here.

Yeah any media at all will help kick start it off for you.

Thanks, I will add in handful of media to increase the rate.

 

[Flyfisha]

Yes it will do no harm to add media from an aquarium , even if it’s bacteria from warm water and a higher PH / different PH . No harm at all

The Japanese medaka can handle cold water and it seems hot summer temperature as long as it’s not in the same week. Not so the Daisy‘s rice fish from the tropics.

It was minus 6 centigrade/ 21 F last night. We get 42 centigrade/ 107 f days in a row in summer. I am serious when saying we can get extremes in the same week. So far so good.

I have had the glass tanks pictured in post #5 at the back door for 6 months in the shade without a cycled filter or any media. One water change in six months.You can see I have as many plants as possible. I recommend the Lebanese celery as a nuisance weed to get things started. You can remove it as you find plants more to your taste / that are more pleasing to your eye and native to your climate?

My tropical tanks get at least one 45% water change each week. Fry tanks get up to three 45% changes each week.

Edit to add link.
Please realise this family has been keeping rice fish for twenty years. I am not saying what they are doing is the only way or the “ correct “ but it’s definitely an eye opener for anyone who has an aquarium and does the work that tropical fish need .

Fast forward to 6 minutes to see what just confirms there is little need for a large amount of cycled media,

 

[brahms]

Yes it will do no harm to add media from an aquarium , even if it’s bacteria from warm water and a higher PH / different PH . No harm at all

The Japanese medaka can handle cold water and it seems hot summer temperature as long as it’s not in the same week. Not so the Daisy‘s rice fish from the tropics.

It was minus 6 centigrade/ 21 F last night. We get 42 centigrade/ 107 f days in a row in summer. I am serious when saying we can get extremes in the same week. So far so good.

I have had the glass tanks pictured in post #5 at the back door for 6 months in the shade without a cycled filter or any media. One water change in six months.You can see I have as many plants as possible. I recommend the Lebanese celery as a nuisance weed to get things started. You can remove it as you find plants more to your taste / that are more pleasing to your eye and native to your climate?

My tropical tanks get at least one 45% water change each week. Fry tanks get up to three 45% changes each week.

Edit to add link.
Please realise this family has been keeping rice fish for twenty years. I am not saying what they are doing is the only way or the “ correct “ but it’s definitely an eye opener for anyone who has an aquarium and does the work that tropical fish need .

Fast forward to 6 minutes to see what just confirms there is little need for a large amount of cycled media,

Medaka I have is Platinum and Orange variant. I googled on Daisy Blue and apparently it is different from Oryzias Latipes (Japanese Ricefish).

As for the plants, I have added some Water Hyacinths. I will add some other water plant after things are more established.

Appreciate your insight on your experience. I feel confident than before now.