How Often can you do a saltwater dip on Freshwater Fish

americanninja

I had an awful battle with Velvet in my tank. It took out everyone except for my one Blood parrot. Tried Ich-x, Paraguard, and nothing worked. Now using Coppersafe in the tank to treat and eradicate this pest. The only thing that appeared to work and get my fish back to health was a salt water dip. I did 30 teaspoons of kosher salt per gallon and had him sit in the dip for about 15 minutes. I read you can do from 5 to 30 minutes or until they lay on their side.

My blood parrot looked fine throughout the process and never laid on his side. But since he was so stressed from the Velvet, I decided 15 minutes was enough. Maybe I should have went longer since he wasn't on his side, any recommendation?

I plan to treat the fishtank for a full month with Coppersafe. However, my blood parrot had some white spots and stuff in his gills, the same thing my large blood parrot had before he died. The younger blood parrot is finally eating now, so I think he is on the way to recovery, but I thought it may be a good idea to continue doing the salt dip to make sure if any velvet parasite is still in the tank and attaching to his gills, that I can regularly kill it with the salt dip. How frequently can I do the dips safely? Is it something that can be done everyday or every week days, or once per week. For those that have had success defeating Velvet and using the salt dip method, what was your approach?

Obviously the coppersafe is killing it in the main tank as time goes on, but I want to make sure to kill whatever is on my little guy as much as possible to speed his recovery.

As this is the first time I've tried this method and it proved successful, I would like to better understand it and how it can be used safely.
 

sydrc

i had a goldfish with dropsy and gave him 2 epsom salt baths a day, morning and night, for 10 minutes each time. this kept him treated regularly while giving him time to relax between sessions. it sounds like it’s clearing up, so if it’s not as life-threatening as dropsy, one 15 minute bath a day should be fine to keep doing. just make sure the temperature in the bath water is as close as possible to the tank water so it’s not as stressful.
 

ChrissFishes01

I had an awful battle with Velvet in my tank. It took out everyone except for my one Blood parrot. Tried Ich-x, Paraguard, and nothing worked. Now using Coppersafe in the tank to treat and eradicate this pest. The only thing that appeared to work and get my fish back to health was a salt water dip. I did 30 teaspoons of kosher salt per gallon and had him sit in the dip for about 15 minutes. I read you can do from 5 to 30 minutes or until they lay on their side.

My blood parrot looked fine throughout the process and never laid on his side. But since he was so stressed from the Velvet, I decided 15 minutes was enough. Maybe I should have went longer since he wasn't on his side, any recommendation?

I plan to treat the fishtank for a full month with Coppersafe. However, my blood parrot had some white spots and stuff in his gills, the same thing my large blood parrot had before he died. The younger blood parrot is finally eating now, so I think he is on the way to recovery, but I thought it may be a good idea to continue doing the salt dip to make sure if any velvet parasite is still in the tank and attaching to his gills, that I can regularly kill it with the salt dip. How frequently can I do the dips safely? Is it something that can be done everyday or every week days, or once per week. For those that have had success defeating Velvet and using the salt dip method, what was your approach?

Obviously the coppersafe is killing it in the main tank as time goes on, but I want to make sure to kill whatever is on my little guy as much as possible to speed his recovery.

As this is the first time I've tried this method and it proved successful, I would like to better understand it and how it can be used safely.
I wouldn't do any more dips on him. If he's on the road to recovery, removing him to dip him will only serve to stress him out - the goal right now should be allowing him to soak in the medication and de-stress to build up his immune system.

Dips of any kind are incredibly stressful - I usually recommend against them. That said, it sounds like it was kind of a "Hail Mary" pass in this case, so I understand why you did it and may have done the same thing.

I would say that you can't safely do salt dips ever - at all. There's always a risk. Daily is definitely too often, and 5 days a week is also way too often. Weekly would be better, but still too often IMO. Stress hormones can be found in netted fish for weeks after they've been netted once - I can't help but imagine netting them that often and dipping them into a salt solution is more harmful than helpful once the parasite is beaten back a little. Dosing in the tank is always preferable to a dip, unless dosing in the tank isn't possible due to other inhabitants.

My recommendation would be to keep the tank as calm as possible - dim the lights (or keep them off), keep a close eye on your copper levels with a test kit (because they will fluctuate as water evaporates from your tank - a proper dose can quickly become an underdose or and overdose as water evaporates, especially since you're never dosing 100% accurately in the first place due to water displacement in the tank from the decor), and feed lightly, since copper has been known to have a negative effect on biological filters. I'd be testing for ammonia pretty often, too.
 

americanninja

Thanks ChrissFishes01! Very helpful information here. It's definitely hard to find a consensus on just about anything in this hobby, but you make some valid points about the stress bit. And yeah, he is doing a lot better. He was eating pellets with a full appetite and his back to a nice bright orange color with no black stress spots on him and fins looking perfect. His strutting around the tank with fins fully raised looking like the new tank boss (since it's only him). Ah man, I wish I knew about the salt dip before I lost my large blood parrot, he was our first family fish and our first blood parrot, with loads of personality. He would always just hang out at the top of the tank waiting for me to come up to it. Miss that little/big guy.

Anyway, happy that this guy is doing as good as is he. So, okay, I will pass on doing any salt dips for now, however, could you help answer a few more questions.

The tank is still currently set at around 86-87F and the salt concentration in the tank is around 1 tablespoon per 4 gallons. How long can I keep the temp this high and the salt level this high with the blood parrot in the tank? I plan to keep the coppersafe in the tank for a full month and then remove it with water changes. But is it okay for the Blood parrot to leave him in with the high temp and salt for the entire month?

Also, you seem to have experience using coppersafe, what are the symptoms or effects if the concentration is too high (obviously, I have read death is one outcome, but what will you notice before that happens). I actually know that my tank holds about 25.6 gallons with all the rocks and substrate, as I measured it when I fully emptied the water for a 100% water change when I had all the fish out of the tank. I dosed it a bit high, as there were no fish in the tank. I measured it with the API test kit after having the blood parrot in there for 2 days (without any issue). It's hard to determine the readings by the shades of color, my guess is it was between 2 and 4ppm. Just to be safe, I took out about 5 gallons and replaced with only treated water and then retested. I think it's not around 2ppm. I'm just curious what I would expect to see in the fish if it was in fact around 3-4ppm. I couldn't find anything online, other than, "if it's high it can kill your fish".

Also, why would I need to monitor ammonia, I'm just curious? Is there a possibility that it will spike suddenly/randomly due to the coppersafe? I tested it 2 days ago, and I was at ammonia - 0, nitrite - 0, and nitrate - 20ppm.

Thanks in advance!
 

ChrissFishes01

Thanks @ChrissFishes01! Very helpful information here. It's definitely hard to find a consensus on just about anything in this hobby, but you make some valid points about the stress bit. And yeah, he is doing a lot better. He was eating pellets with a full appetite and his back to a nice bright orange color with no black stress spots on him and fins looking perfect. His strutting around the tank with fins fully raised looking like the new tank boss (since it's only him). Ah man, I wish I knew about the salt dip before I lost my large blood parrot, he was our first family fish and our first blood parrot, with loads of personality. He would always just hang out at the top of the tank waiting for me to come up to it. Miss that little/big guy.
I'm glad you found it helpful! There's definitely a million ways to do everything - but if it works, it works. I'm glad he's doing better!

The tank is still currently set at around 86-87F and the salt concentration in the tank is around 1 tablespoon per 4 gallons. How long can I keep the temp this high and the salt level this high with the blood parrot in the tank? I plan to keep the coppersafe in the tank for a full month and then remove it with water changes. But is it okay for the Blood parrot to leave him in with the high temp and salt for the entire month?
So, personally, I would lower the temperature down to normal temps, or at least 80-82. 86 is pretty high, and the higher the temperature, the less oxygen can be dissolved into water. Couple that with the fact that any medications in the water will also change the amount of oxygen that can be dissolved into water, and you get into a precarious situation, IMO. So, I'd lower the temp, and I would actually water change the salt out of the tank, if you can. The copper will take care of the parasite, as long as the treatment is done correctly. The dosage of salt isn't all that high, so it may not prove harmful - but when you're doing a treatment as harsh as copper (which was necessary in this case), you really want to minimize other stress factors, like separate medications.

Also, you seem to have experience using coppersafe, what are the symptoms or effects if the concentration is too high (obviously, I have read death is one outcome, but what will you notice before that happens). I actually know that my tank holds about 25.6 gallons with all the rocks and substrate, as I measured it when I fully emptied the water for a 100% water change when I had all the fish out of the tank. I dosed it a bit high, as there were no fish in the tank. I measured it with the API test kit after having the blood parrot in there for 2 days (without any issue). It's hard to determine the readings by the shades of color, my guess is it was between 2 and 4ppm. Just to be safe, I took out about 5 gallons and replaced with only treated water and then retested. I think it's not around 2ppm. I'm just curious what I would expect to see in the fish if it was in fact around 3-4ppm. I couldn't find anything online, other than, "if it's high it can kill your fish".
Copper is one of a very few treatments that works for saltwater ich and velvet, so a lot of marine aquarists get very used to using copper very quickly. Unfortunately, I've had my fair share of saltwater ich issues, lol.

The problem with copper is that it's literally poison. It will damage a fish's organs very quickly, so there really won't be many symptoms of things going wrong until it's too late. IME, a loss of appetite (if there was one before) is a symptom that levels might be a bit too high. Becoming lethargic is another common issue. However, both of these things are common symptoms of disease as well, so it's hard to differentiate between copper symptoms and illness symptoms.

The thing about copper is that levels must stay at therapeutic (therapeutic meaning parasite-killing) levels for the entire course of the treatment. So, in the case of coppersafe, levels would need to be at 2.0 PPM for the entire course of the treatment. Any lower, and there's a chance that some of the parasites may survive it, and any higher, and there's a good chance it'll kill the fish. I know color charts can be difficult, but this one time when you really want to be sure about the readings. I've got the API copper kit (although I use Copper Power), and have found that relatively intense light will help get the reading correct.

Also, why would I need to monitor ammonia, I'm just curious? Is there a possibility that it will spike suddenly/randomly due to the coppersafe? I tested it 2 days ago, and I was at ammonia - 0, nitrite - 0, and nitrate - 20ppm.

Copper kills pretty much everything, at the right levels. The only reason we can use it as a medication is that most fish can tolerate it longer than a lot of parasites can. It's been theorized that copper can actually kill some of the bacteria that live in your filter (the nitrogen cycle), thus causing an ammonia or nitrite spike, which fish would be even more vulnerable to while they're sick and in copper.

I'd also note that velvet is really bad about getting into the gills. If you notice him swimming under the filter flow a lot or gasping at the surface, I'd add in an airstone. He may already have rebounded enough not to worry about it, but a lot of deaths with velvet are due to asphyxiation as the parasite damages the gills.
 

americanninja

Thank you ChrissFishes01! I really appreciate the detailed responses and follow-up, I can tell by your writing, that you have extensive experience with this stuff and there are so many nuggets of gold in the above advice.

I have slowly lowered the temperature, it's about 82-83 now. I think I will now take out the adjustable heater and leave my 100w Aqueon fixed temp heater in the tank, which usually keeps it around 80-82F.

My blood parrot is looking fantastic. He got annoyed that I moved his lava rock today and tried biting my hand a few times. Gotta love that...nursed him back from death's doorstep and he wants to bite me. lol. I guess he's pretty well recovered if he has his feisty attitude back.

Understood on the ammonia check need due to potential impact on beneficial bacteria, that makes sense. I will continue doing testing every day or so. The water is looking so nice and no algae on the rocks because I am keeping the tank darker than usual (I cover the tank with a black towel around 5pm each day, to give the give more darkness to rest and recovery. The lack of light does wonders on the diatom algae situation I had prior to this whole thing.

What do you recommend for the treatment period? On Mardel's website for their Coppersafe product, they recommend keeping therapeutic levels for 10 days to ensure that Velvet has been erradicted. Is that what you also recommend and found in your experience?

Since my blood parrot is the only guy in the tank, I was thinking to wait a full 2 weeks to make sure no signs/symptoms return. Then I was thinking to add 1 small blood parrot (to be his new friend), 1 Lace Catfish, and 1 Rainbow shark. Since the entire tank is being treated with coppersafe, I thought to just add them directly to the tank and let the Coppersafe run two more weeks (for one month total) and then remove it with water changes.

Reading Mardel's website, they basically say that you can leave the coppersafe in the tank indefinitely, as long as you maintain it at therapeutic levels (1.5-2ppm). Is this really true? If so, why not leave it in the tank to keep the rid free of any potentially future parasites from cropping up (assuming you don't plan to put in plants or invertebrates)? Do you know any hobbyists that do this?

And yes, it seems this nasty Velvet stuff does attack the gills really badly. I never saw any presence of the parasite on the body of my two blood parrots, even when trying the flashlight in a dark setting approach. Nothing, it was almost as if it only attacked their gills, and even that, I couldn't tell what it was. If my poor lace catfish had not died such a slow painful death, I would have never realized it was even Velvet. He was the only one that showed the velvet all over his body. And it wasn't until the very late stages (his skin started to peel off) that the color started to appear a yellow / gold dust color. I would have never known. As for air, I have the HOB and 2 air pumps pumping air into the tank, so it's well aerated throughout this entire process.

As for the salt, I haven't swapped any of it out just yet, as I didn't want to mess with the redosing of the coppersafe, since it's at a good level, and he's not showing any signs of stress, I thought to just keep it in until end of treatment. It's only at a level of <1 teaspoon per gallon so I think it's quite low. If he is not showing any signs of stress, is there any harm to keep that level of salt in the tank for extended periods of time? Honestly, his skin, color, and fins look the best I have ever seen them. So it doesn't appear to be bothering him, but just curious if there is some hidden damage the salt could be causing that I'm not aware of.

Thanks again for your advice and help, I'm learning so much from this thread.
 

ChrissFishes01

I'm glad you're finding it helpful! Copper is rarely used with freshwater diseases, so it can be a bit tough to find information on it unless you extrapolate from saltwater resources.

I have slowly lowered the temperature, it's about 82-83 now. I think I will now take out the adjustable heater and leave my 100w Aqueon fixed temp heater in the tank, which usually keeps it around 80-82F.
Sounds good!

My blood parrot is looking fantastic. He got annoyed that I moved his lava rock today and tried biting my hand a few times. Gotta love that...nursed him back from death's doorstep and he wants to bite me. lol. I guess he's pretty well recovered if he has his feisty attitude back.
His personality returning is a good sign, for sure.

What do you recommend for the treatment period? On Mardel's website for their Coppersafe product, they recommend keeping therapeutic levels for 10 days to ensure that Velvet has been erradicted. Is that what you also recommend and found in your experience?
This is a complicated question, but I don't think 10 days is enough to be 100% sure it's gone. There are a bunch of different variations of Velvet, and a lot of them take different times to complete their life cycles. Some parasites only attach to the fish for around 12 hours, and some can stay attached up to almost a week. This is a problem, since the medication can only kill the parasite while it's free-floating in the water, not attached to the fish. So, for one strain, 10 days may be plenty. For another, 10 days may leave the parasite alive.

In the saltwater world, the accepted length of time to treat is 30 days in copper. That would kill even the longest-attached strains of Velvet. Unfortunately, I can't find a lot of information on the freshwater strains - but considering how deadly Velvet tends to be, I would be tempted to go the full 30 days at 2 PPM of copper. It'd be terrible to think you had it taken care of, only to find that the treatment failed later.

I tend to take the advice of hobbyists over the advice of the company, when it comes to medications and chemicals. Often, hobbyists end up finding better ways of treating with medications than what's indicated on the bottle, so a good Google search for forums like this one has always proved more helpful for me.

Since my blood parrot is the only guy in the tank, I was thinking to wait a full 2 weeks to make sure no signs/symptoms return. Then I was thinking to add 1 small blood parrot (to be his new friend), 1 Lace Catfish, and 1 Rainbow shark. Since the entire tank is being treated with coppersafe, I thought to just add them directly to the tank and let the Coppersafe run two more weeks (for one month total) and then remove it with water changes.
I would probably recommend against this, unfortunately. As I stated in my last post, copper is a poison - it's something that fish should really only be subjected to as a last resort. In some cases, such as a stubborn velvet infection, it makes sense to use. It doesn't make sense to drop some fish who likely aren't sick with something requiring velvet into copper, IMO.

Some long-term side effects of copper are suspected to include tumors, cancer, sterilization, and nerve issues. The medication that can save a fish can kill it later, even when the treatment is done correctly, so I always recommend not to use it on any animal you don't have to. All of these side effects are anecdotal, and come from hobbyists who have had fish that were treated in copper develop side effects years down the road. They can definitively be linked to copper, since it's not a proper study, but it's happened enough that there's probably some correlation.

I'd wait to add fish until after the copper is completely water changed out of the tank, personally. I'm not sure if you have one, but a quarantine tank would really help make sure that something like this doesn't happen again - even just a couple weeks in a Sterilite storage tote will tell you whether or not the fish is likely carrying a parasite. Velvet would be obvious very quickly, so you'd probably never infect your main tank again.

Reading Mardel's website, they basically say that you can leave the coppersafe in the tank indefinitely, as long as you maintain it at therapeutic levels (1.5-2ppm). Is this really true? If so, why not leave it in the tank to keep the rid free of any potentially future parasites from cropping up (assuming you don't plan to put in plants or invertebrates)? Do you know any hobbyists that do this?
I think I may have just answered this in the last paragraph, but copper is a poison. I do know that a few saltwater stores keep all of their fish for sale in copper to avoid ich and velvet outbreaks in the store, but I don't know I've ever heard of the home hobbyist doing it.

Even if there turns out to be no side effects to exposure to copper, the fact still remains that all it takes is an accidental overdose or even just evaporation (since water will evaporate, leaving the copper behind in a higher concentration) to bring copper from therapeutic levels to deadly levels.

Plus, certain fish are killed by even low levels of copper. Puffers and eels are generally a no-no when it comes to copper, for example. That doesn't apply to you, but I'm not sure there's been enough copper use in the freshwater hobby for anyone to have put together a comprehensive list of which fish can handle copper and which can't. We have that resource in saltwater, which simplifies things. So there'd always be a chance that you'd introduce a fish to the tank, only to have it killed by the copper.

And, for one final reason: Velvet is extremely rare, IME. Especially freshwater velvet. Ich is more common, but is easily treated with Ich-X or salt, which are much more gentle on the fish than copper is. Maybe the only benefit would be you'd never deal with anchorworm, which can be hard to get rid of, but again, there are gentler medications that can deal with it 99% of the time. The same is true for Velvet, honestly - it's rare to need copper in the freshwater hobby at all. Most freshwater hobbyists probably never touch the stuff.

As for the salt, I haven't swapped any of it out just yet, as I didn't want to mess with the redosing of the coppersafe, since it's at a good level, and he's not showing any signs of stress, I thought to just keep it in until end of treatment. It's only at a level of <1 teaspoon per gallon so I think it's quite low. If he is not showing any signs of stress, is there any harm to keep that level of salt in the tank for extended periods of time? Honestly, his skin, color, and fins look the best I have ever seen them. So it doesn't appear to be bothering him, but just curious if there is some hidden damage the salt could be causing that I'm not aware of.
While I would personally go ahead and water change it out, I understand being wary of messing with the copper dose. If you're not super confident about it, don't worry about it yet - it's unlikely the salt will cause issues during treatment, if he's looking better so far.

Some people do run salt 24/7 in their tanks, but I usually recommend against it. Aquarium salt is basically an irritant that causes the slime coat to thicken, among other things. It also raises the salt content in the tank (duh), and then organisms in the tank have to filter the salt out of the water to avoid dehydration.

Saltwater fish are adapted for this - they essentially lose as little water as possible. They actually only pee a tiny amount every now and then, but that little amount is very concentrated waste. Freshwater fish (excluding euryhaline species) are always peeing out a very diluted waste solution, since they generally have no problem getting freshwater into their body. When salt is added, sometimes they're able to adapt to a small amount, just as humans are able to adapt to a slightly different atmosphere than we're used to. But, over time, it can take a toll on their kidneys and cause organ failure down the road.

And, again, evaporation and dose management plays a role. If you were to forget to top off the tank with freshwater (without salt in it) while aquarium salt was in the tank, as that water evaporates, the concentration of salt in the tank goes up. A mild dose of salt slowly becomes of larger dose. Couple that with maybe a little extra salt here and there during water changes (just by accident), and you may eventually reach a dose that's harmful over the short-term. It happens. I've thought my saltwater tanks were doing great, only to test the water and find that they were more (or less!) salty than they should be by a large amount, simply due to a build up of "Oh, close enough!" and other small mistakes. It's not usually deadly in saltwater fish, though, because they have a mechanism to get rid of excess salt in their bodies, as long as the water isn't crazy salty. Freshwater fish don't have that, at least not a way to do it efficiently.
 

americanninja

Awesome! Thanks ChrissFishes01, very helpful information.

Cool, I will run the coppersafe through the full course of 1 month. Meanwhile, I will setup a 10 gallon tank as a quarantine tank for prepping the new inhabitants. I was only thinking to avoid that, because I dont have a seeded tank and I worry that 2 weeks in there would have issues with Ammonia and Nitrate and I didn't want to bring over a sponge filter from the main tank, as it could bring Velvet and I wouldnt have the quarantine tank treated. So that was my rationale for why just dumping them into the main tank.

Funny to hear that velvet is so rare, I have no idea, but it seems I always experience the most rare things in life, which gives me a lot of opportunity of learning new things all the time, but its a bit annoying. haha. But hey, you live and learn.

So I have a question then, since Coppersafe appears to be more of the nuclear option, assuming in the future, I get an outbreak of Ich, what do you recommend? I have used ich-x, but honestly, its a pain in the a** because you have to do daily 30-40% water changes and that consumes a good 30-40 minutes a day, which I dont really have time for. That's kind of why I gave Paraguard a try this time around, before I realized it was Velvet. So I currently have bottles of Ich-X, Paraguard, and Ich Attack by Kordon. Do you have any experience with these others and can recommend? Ideally, I'm looking for a solution which doesn't require daily water changes. I have no problem doing a very large water change at the start of the treatment, but I would like a medication that I can simply dose daily and not have to be carrying buckets of water back and forth between the bathroom (i know of things like Python, but it doesnt connect with any of the facets in my apartment, I will look into adapters in the future).

Thanks again for all the help!
 

ChrissFishes01

Cool, I will run the coppersafe through the full course of 1 month. Meanwhile, I will setup a 10 gallon tank as a quarantine tank for prepping the new inhabitants. I was only thinking to avoid that, because I dont have a seeded tank and I worry that 2 weeks in there would have issues with Ammonia and Nitrate and I didn't want to bring over a sponge filter from the main tank, as it could bring Velvet and I wouldnt have the quarantine tank treated. So that was my rationale for why just dumping them into the main tank.
I understand - if it were me, as much as it sucks, I'd wait to get new fish until after the treatment is totally done. Technically, velvet can be transmitted through air (up to 10 feet away), although I've never experienced that. But accidentally using the same net or any other equipment without thinking could cross contaminate the QT with your display tank. I'm personally too lazy to take care of an uncycled QT tank anyway, so I'd definitely be waiting till I could move a sponge over! Lol.

Funny to hear that velvet is so rare, I have no idea, but it seems I always experience the most rare things in life, which gives me a lot of opportunity of learning new things all the time, but its a bit annoying. haha. But hey, you live and learn.
That is true. Fortunately, if you ever run across velvet or something similar again you'll be in better shape than most freshwater hobbyists to treat it. Hopefully you never do, though - and if you do, hopefully some alternative treatments work before you have to resort to copper again.

So I have a question then, since Coppersafe appears to be more of the nuclear option, assuming in the future, I get an outbreak of Ich, what do you recommend? I have used ich-x, but honestly, its a pain in the a** because you have to do daily 30-40% water changes and that consumes a good 30-40 minutes a day, which I dont really have time for. That's kind of why I gave Paraguard a try this time around, before I realized it was Velvet. So I currently have bottles of Ich-X, Paraguard, and Ich Attack by Kordon. Do you have any experience with these others and can recommend? Ideally, I'm looking for a solution which doesn't require daily water changes. I have no problem doing a very large water change at the start of the treatment, but I would like a medication that I can simply dose daily and not have to be carrying buckets of water back and forth between the bathroom (i know of things like Python, but it
I use both Ich-X and aquarium salt to treat ich in my freshwater tanks, but never at the same time.

Salt will treat most strains of ich starting around 1 tbsp per 2 gallons. So, if I have a fish that's salt-tolerant (cichlids, livebearers, tetras, rasboras, etc.) I'll typically just treat with 1 tbsp per 2 gallons of salt and leave it in there for 2 weeks. After that, it gets water changed out. Salt will kill plants and some inverts, though, so you gotta be careful of that. Plus, some fish (some catfish, for example) are known not to like salt, so you gotta be careful with what you treat.

I use Ich-X the rest of the time. If it's a planted tank, or it has shrimp, or it has a fish that's more sensitive to salt, or whatever - I'll use Ich-X. 5 mL per 10 gallons, change 1/3 of the water every day until you can't see any spots any more - and then I treat for another couple days after that. I don't do any big water changes to remove the medication after treatment - it gets water changed out over time.

As far as Ich Attack... I hate to say it, but there's no herbal cure known for ich. The stuff might bolster immune systems or something, but it won't cure ich. Plain and simple. I wish it did - it'd be a whole lot easier on fish, I'm sure.

I've never used Paraguard, but it's a similar mixture of ingredients to Ich-X, so I'd guess it probably works okay. No experience with it, though.
 

americanninja

Thanks! Yeah, I was skeptical about the natural herbal cure stuff. I guess that's why it's $5 for a large bottle. Just snake oil. I will try Paraguard next time I encounter Ich. Having had to deal with this Velvet outbreak and a previous Ich experience, the daily water changes is just a bit taxing, when you think about doing it for 2 weeks. Paraguard seems to be similar stuff to Ich-X, but for some reason you don't need to do the water changes, that's why I was looking forward to it.

I will give it a try next time to see how it works, but I know Ich-x is highly recommended and it worked great last time. I'm kind of annoyed by it though since it advertises that it takes care of Velvet, which appears to be far from the truth. But I lost precious time dosing the tank for more than a week thinking it would take care of it if I just continued with the treatment. So I'm a bit turned off by it due to this experience.

Anyway, I have both in my arsenal of tools, so I'll test and compare during the next opportunity. Thanks again for all the help!
 

americanninja

Is this depression in fish or side effect of Copper?

So, it's been 2 weeks now since I have had the Coppersafe in the main tank with my lone survivor Ben, the Blood Parrot. Here is a photo and video of him. He was the only survivor from this battle with Velvet (The tank boss, the large blood parrot, the lace catfish, and the flowerhorn all died). Ben was very close with the large blood parrot and the lace catfish, so I'm wondering if he is just depressed.

Basically, he had lost most of his color, very pale white, and had black stress spots all over his face, fins, and tail. The salt dip seemed to have saved him and he started eating again normally and got his strength back and color. However, this past week, once he got his color and strength back, I noticed he would just sit between these rocks all day. He wouldn't even move his fins, almost just sitting in a frozen pose and looking. He eats when I can coax him out of this position and then he just goes back into it again.

His color looks great, no other symptoms and I assume is gills are back to normal given the Coppersafe should have killed the velvet by now. Water Params are 0- Nitrite, 0 - ammonia, ~20 Nitrate, and from what I can tell Copper is around 1.5-2ppm.

So I don't think he's sick but he is not swimming and just sits in this position all day. Any thoughts?

It seems i can't post videos on this site. But just image, that photo but he's not moving. hah!
 

Attachments

  • IMG_7967.JPG
    IMG_7967.JPG
    240.8 KB · Views: 1

ChrissFishes01

Is this depression in fish or side effect of Copper?

So, it's been 2 weeks now since I have had the Coppersafe in the main tank with my lone survivor Ben, the Blood Parrot. Here is a photo and video of him. He was the only survivor from this battle with Velvet (The tank boss, the large blood parrot, the lace catfish, and the flowerhorn all died). Ben was very close with the large blood parrot and the lace catfish, so I'm wondering if he is just depressed.

Basically, he had lost most of his color, very pale white, and had black stress spots all over his face, fins, and tail. The salt dip seemed to have saved him and he started eating again normally and got his strength back and color. However, this past week, once he got his color and strength back, I noticed he would just sit between these rocks all day. He wouldn't even move his fins, almost just sitting in a frozen pose and looking. He eats when I can coax him out of this position and then he just goes back into it again.

His color looks great, no other symptoms and I assume is gills are back to normal given the Coppersafe should have killed the velvet by now. Water Params are 0- Nitrite, 0 - ammonia, ~20 Nitrate, and from what I can tell Copper is around 1.5-2ppm.

So I don't think he's sick but he is not swimming and just sits in this position all day. Any thoughts?

It seems i can't post videos on this site. But just image, that photo but he's not moving. hah!
I would guess he's just not feeling very well - copper is a toxin, after all, so it would make sense if it made him feel a little sick on top of the infection he's getting over. As long as he's still eating and not showing any other (or new) symptoms, I think you should stay course.

I'd double and triple check that Copper reading, personally. You want to be as precise as you can. Keeping it as close to 2 PPM as you can will make sure you're not adding any unnecessary stress to the fish.
 

Similar Aquarium Threads

Replies
0
Views
78
americanninja
Replies
16
Views
1K
yomo
Replies
7
Views
352
americanninja
Replies
3
Views
346
California L33
Replies
9
Views
7K
AbraCadaver

Random Great Thread!

New Fish Disease Threads

Latest Aquarium Threads

Top Bottom