How Many Lift Tubes For Ugf?

I have a question for experienced undergravel filter users. After lots of research I decided to use an undergravel filter with my fish tank .

I have a 30 gallon aquarium in which I am housing to small (so far) fancy goldfish. I have gravel substrate which is probably 3in thick at the back and closer to 2in thick at the front. At the moment I have two lift tubes being powered by a Tetra 40 Whisper air pump.

My question is, should I be using four lift tubes instead of two? How can you tell if you're getting proper flow down through your gravel?

 

Now that's old school. Its really hard to determine exactly how much water its pulling threw the filter. By the looks of how full the tubes are of bubbles I think your pulling about all the water threw it that you can. Your bio load of the tank inhabitants will ultimately determine how much filtration is needed more than tank size.

 

Now that's old school. Its really hard to determine exactly how much water its pulling threw the filter. By the looks of how full the tubes are of bubbles I think your pulling about all the water threw it that you can. Your bio load of the tank inhabitants will ultimately determine how much filtration is needed more than tank size.

Yeah how I got this tank is a bit of a long story but, I'm pretty sure this setup is from the 80s. I bought it from Craigslist and the glass is much thicker than your average fish tank these days, and the fake wood grain on the edging leads me to believe that it is indeed pretty old school. I was planning to use an undergravel filter anyway but this one actually came with a filter plate already sized to the tank so I used it. It didn't have any lift tubes but handily the tubes I had for my 29 gallon filter plate fit just fine. This has space for 4 tubes but I'm only using two of them, I blocked the other two off with little caps I made from epoxy and covered with aquarium gravel.

Anybody else with undergravel Filter experience?

 

I usually just use one tube on my 30, but I put a 200 gallon per hour powerhead at the top of it.

For bubbles I just put an air wand at the back of the tank on a whisper 60.

That's the setup that I used for 27 years, and I had some fish that lived from 10 to 14 years old.

The key is that you want to get a gravel siphon and do your gravel every other week plus change your water 25% once a week and don't overload the tank with fish.

By the way, you can get by with fewer water changes, but that's what you're doing: just getting by.

IMO it's not the kind of treatment that will normally produce prize fish.

It is the kind of treatment that will produce average listless fish, so you decide.

 

By the way, you can get by with fewer water changes, but that's what you're doing: just getting by.

IMO it's not the kind of treatment that will normally produce prize fish.

It is the kind of treatment that will produce average listless fish, so you decide.

ooh, thank you Ulu! Yeah I do regular water changes of about 20-30% a week, and test my water every week. I also gravel siphon when I do the water changes, all-over and then a section deeper. Last week was the first time I had Nitrates over 5... my cycle is going really well. If there's one thing I can't call these fish, it's listless! haha... we named one Sun Wukong because it is such an energetic creature it reminded my guy of a monkey! We only ever plan to have these two fish in this tank, and probably see how they put up with a few invertebrates (shrimp and snails).

 

All I’ve ever used were UGF. They worked perfectly. I’m so so glad you got to use the older one! The new ones are .
I’ve switched to sponge and HOB. I miss the ease of taking care of a tank with an UGF. Water changes, gravel vac. If you notice bioload getting too much for the filter, add a power head. I’m so proud for you! And jealous too.

 

All I’ve ever used were UGF. They worked perfectly. I’m so so glad you got to use the older one! The new ones are .
I’ve switched to sponge and HOB. I miss the ease of taking care of a tank with an UGF. Water changes, gravel vac. If you notice bioload getting too much for the filter, add a power head. I’m so proud for you! And jealous too.

I am just using airstones to move the water so far, I'm using a Whisper 40. I was considering getting a sponge filter to 'scrub' the water some (put it in place of my center airstone) and hide it behind a decoration).

If I decide to use a powerhead with my UGF how do I do that? I am concerned about having too much 'breeze' in the tank for my fantail goldfish. My telescope eye in particular is not a very strong swimmer (the other one is a tiny calico racecar... I guess she didn't get the memo that fantails are supposed to be "slow" fish) It's one of the reasons I finally settled on an undergravel filter and learned allllll about the PROPER maintenance of it, I.. hope. haha

 

I am just using airstones to move the water so far, I'm using a Whisper 40. I was considering getting a sponge filter to 'scrub' the water some (put it in place of my center airstone) and hide it behind a decoration).

If I decide to use a powerhead with my UGF how do I do that? I am concerned about having too much 'breeze' in the tank for my fantail goldfish. My telescope eye in particular is not a very strong swimmer (the other one is a tiny calico racecar... I guess she didn't get the memo that fantails are supposed to be "slow" fish) It's one of the reasons I finally settled on an undergravel filter and learned allllll about the PROPER maintenance of it, I.. hope. haha

If you don’t overstock your tank, you’ll be fine without a powerhead. Especially an old school UGF! Did you post pics of the fish?

 

Back in the 1980's when I had my 30 gallon saltwater tank. The normal practice was to use undergravel filters with crushed coral as the substrate. I had three separate filter platforms and of course each had it's own lift tube. I had a large air pump with gang valves to operate everything. For a while, I used airstones but they kept clogging up with mineral deposits. At the local saltwater fish shop, I noticed they just had the airline in the tube with no stone. I tried that and the filters worked much better and didn't need the maintenance. Powerheads were just coming into use but I never had one.

 

If you don’t overstock your tank, you’ll be fine without a powerhead. Especially an old school UGF! Did you post pics of the fish?

I have posted pics of the fish in the user gallery, but here is a video I shot just last night:

Thee Lady G on Instagram: “Here's my blubbos chasing around a slightly buoyant piece of omelet! You can give your goldies an egg treat too! Here's a recipe: Crack an…”

Sun Wukong (Sunny) the Calico Fantail and Copper Dragon (Copper) the Telescope Eye Fantail
Copper is about 3" or so with his (her?) tail fins, they're just little still

 

Back in the 1980's when I had my 30 gallon saltwater tank. The normal practice was to use undergravel filters with crushed coral as the substrate. I had three separate filter platforms and of course each had it's own lift tube. I had a large air pump with gang valves to operate everything. For a while, I used airstones but they kept clogging up with mineral deposits. At the local saltwater fish shop, I noticed they just had the airline in the tube with no stone. I tried that and the filters worked much better and didn't need the maintenance. Powerheads were just coming into use but I never had one.

I never used air stones either.

 

All I’ve ever used were UGF. They worked perfectly. I’m so so glad you got to use the older one! The new ones are .
I’ve switched to sponge and HOB. I miss the ease of taking care of a tank with an UGF. Water changes, gravel vac. If you notice bioload getting too much for the filter, add a power head. I’m so proud for you! And jealous too.

Actually I'm curious... I know UGF's are not ideal for every type of fish tank, but if they were so nice to use why did they fall out of fashion? I feel like they are nearly ideal for fancy goldfish keeping as long as you use Good Sense Fishkeeping™ (which seems to be sorely lacking, alas).

What made you decide to go to sponge and HOB?

 

Actually I'm curious... I know UGF's are not ideal for every type of fish tank, but if they were so nice to use why did they fall out of fashion? I feel like they are nearly ideal for fancy goldfish keeping as long as you use Good Sense Fishkeeping™ (which seems to be sorely lacking, alas).

What made you decide to go to sponge and HOB?

At one point UGF's were thought to be good for planted tanks since the waste got sucked into the substrate. Today's thinking is exactly the opposite. Other issues can be either the substrate getting clogged and reducing water flow or debris being sucked completely through the substrate and going back out into the tank. Fry can also be sucked through if the gravel pieces are too big. Another thing is that your substrate becomes your biological filter bed and because it is so large the BB really multiply. The bad is that if you add decorations that sit on the substrate, you cause anaerobic pockets under the decoration which causes the BB to die and foul the water, Also, to clean out the filter and get good water flow back you pretty much have to completely break down the tank and rinse out the substrate before putting everything back in again. There will also always be some accumulation of debris under the filter plate. UGF's can work but they're more hassle than they're worth to most people.

 

I never used an UGF filter because I always liked sand substrate. When I worked at a pet store, all we used was UGF except the goldfish tank which had an HOB. One cool thing I saw somewhere was that some guy had taken a bulkhead and placed it on the bottom of the aquarium so he could drain out all the detritus that made it under the UGF without breaking down the tank.

 

It is a different process to clean the undergravel system but with the right powerhead you can really overstock a tank.

Normally I would just use a gravel siphon whenever I changed the water.

When I wanted to really clean the gravel (about twice a year) I would first reverse the flow of the power head and blow everything out backwards as I siphoned the gravel with a big tube.

I would drain up to 80% of the water & replace it with clean water. Most of the detritus was siphoned off.

I redecorated my tank frequently by moving the ornaments around. This helps reduce aggression in an overstocked tank. Really clean water helps too and that's one of the things I was able to maintain.

Right now I have different filtration systems on each of my tanks and they are almost all experimental setups.

One 30 on a sump system is running a reverse undergravel filter. Pretty much everything winds up in the sump and when I siphon that gravel I don't get much.

 

It is a different process to clean the undergravel system but with the right powerhead you can really overstock a tank.

Normally I would just use a gravel siphon whenever I changed the water.

When I wanted to really clean the gravel (about twice a year) I would first reverse the flow of the power head and blow everything out backwards as I siphoned the gravel with a big tube.

I would drain up to 80% of the water & replace it with clean water. Most of the detritus was siphoned off.

I redecorated my tank frequently by moving the ornaments around. This helps reduce aggression in an overstocked tank. Really clean water helps too and that's one of the things I was able to maintain.

Right now I have different filtration systems on each of my tanks and they are almost all experimental setups.

One 30 on a sump system is running a reverse undergravel filter. Pretty much everything winds up in the sump and when I siphon that gravel I don't get much.

Some great info on this thread, thanks you guys!

Yeah I siphon my gravel every water change, and I move the decorations around and vacuum under them. My weak swimming fish in particular has a talent for chasing food under/against things so he can get hold of it. I logic'ed that I could probably use the fountain pump that I use to get water back into the tank out of buckets (instead of lifting buckets) to occasionally stuff down one uplift tube and siphon out the other. With only 2 fish I don't know that I'll accumulate grossness very fast.

 

I love this thread! I have ugf in all my tanks. Though I also run tetra whisper in tank filters that I've adapted to be kind of like canister filters. I do this just to really minimize how much cleaning is required. Make no mistake, I do pwc every week or 2. Minimal gravel vac with these pwc and then really hardcore gravel vac once a month. My tanks never get cloudy, and algae is at a minimum. It is wonderful!

As far as covering surface area with decorations, I've found getting the ones that are open on the bottom helps. Water can still flow through the gravel under it. Though you'll find when you gravel vac under said decorations that they still accumulate more gunk than the open gravel. But definitely less gunk than under a closed bottom decoration.

As far as periodically cleaning the gunk that collects under the filter plate, I saw an awesome youtube video once where a guy adapted a shop vac hose to fit over his uplift tube. He capped one side and vacumed out the other. It just took a few short pulses to get all the build up out from under the plate. And he said you only need to do this every 6 months to a year I believe, though don't quote me. If I can find the vid I'll link it. I've yet to try this, but it is getting about time to clean mine, so I will be.

As far as undergravel filter brands and quality, I've tried 3: Lee's, Penn Plax, and Supa. I very much like the design of supa, but the material is very flimsy. Idk if it works as well as the others, but I can say I've had no problems with the tank it is in(20 hex) for the 2 yearsish I've been running it. Penn plax and lee's are pretty much the same design. Though imo lee's premium(NOT economy) is much better quality. It is the closest thing to the old school ugf you can still buy.

 

Undergravel filters I still have are both over 15 years old. I have no idea what brand they are, but they're still in the tanks.

By the way I never did the trick with the Shop-Vac. I would stick a garden hose on the lift to if I wanted some real pressure to blow everything up through the gravel

 

Undergravel filters I still have are both over 15 years old. I have no idea what brand they are, but they're still in the tanks.

By the way I never did the trick with the Shop-Vac. I would stick a garden hose on the lift to if I wanted some real pressure to blow everything up through the gravel

I bet the garden hose would work well too! I don't have one, nor a faucet that would fit one. But I do have a shop vac. Lol! Fingers crossed I can get it to work.

I bet the garden hose would work well too! I don't have one, nor a faucet that would fit one. But I do have a shop vac. Lol! Fingers crossed I can get it to work.

Fyi, the last time I cleaned out the gunk, I stuck my battery operated gravel vac on the uplift and ran a hose to a bucket. This worked, but the suction wasn't very strong and it took forever! I also ended up burning out the motor on it. Whoops! Good thing it only cost $8 off ebay. It did work though. Lol!

 

. . . UGF's were thought to be good for planted tanks since the waste got sucked into the substrate. Today's thinking is exactly the opposite. . .

I have never been a planted tank guy, but I built a planted test tank setup with reverse undergravel powered by a sump with pond pump.



This was a 30 tall, and so lighting became a problem when I moved it to a room that had no sun exposure. But while that tank had Sun it worked remarkably well, and the only question was could I grow plants faster than my pleco could eat them.

That's now my betta sorority tank, but I need so much cover for those fish that I ended up going to all silk plants. I do not have time to keep up a really dense Jungle of plants.




When the Home Remodeling is over, I'm going to buy some larger tanks and consolidate these aquariums. I intend to have a 90 and a 75 that both run reverse undergravel filters, fed from a sump below the tank.

The plants I intend to grow will work fine with gravel.

 

I have never been a planted tank guy, but I built a planted test tank setup with reverse undergravel powered by a sump with pond pump.
View attachment 450398

This was a 30 tall, and so lighting became a problem when I moved it to a room that had no sun exposure. But while that tank had Sun it worked remarkably well, and the only question was could I grow plants faster than my pleco could eat them.

That's now my betta sorority tank, but I need so much cover for those fish that I ended up going to all silk plants. I do not have time to keep up a really dense Jungle of plants.

View attachment 450397

When the Home Remodeling is over, I'm going to buy some larger tanks and consolidate these aquariums. I intend to have a 90 and a 75 that both run reverse undergravel filters, fed from a sump below the tank.

The plants I intend to grow will work fine with gravel.

I find this interesting. I was told that many plant shouldn't be put in a tank with ugf. Now I can see some that have roots that really get down in there not being good. If they grew into the plate(which would probably only happen with certain styles) and you needed to move them, you'd certainly have to break some roots.

I've never done aquatic plants for this reason. However, this summer I'm watching my friend's 20 gal planted guppy tank for her. And whatever the plants are that she has don't root very deep. And further more are super low maintenance. So as an experiment I've put one of the pups in my 37 gal with ugf. It has only been there a couple weeks but is doing great! I now feel like I've been missing out on live plants.

 

The plecos were uprooting things frequently so nothing ever stuck in the plate. Things didn't stay in place long enough to grow through. I will attempt this again someday without big herbivores.

I have a new idea for a UGF system, but no time to test and build now. When the dust settles here I will post more about that.

 

The plecos were uprooting things frequently so nothing ever stuck in the plate. Things didn't stay in place long enough to grow through. I will attempt this again someday without big herbivores.

I have a new idea for a UGF system, but no time to test and build now. When the dust settles here I will post more about that.

I just have corys, they don't go for the plants too much.

 

The gravel filter I have now came with the tank I bought. It has a "rick rack" design instead of a grate. It had some tiny gravel chips stuck in it that I couldn't really get out (the tank I got was pretty dirty, but for the price I wasn't gonna complain). It's pitched so that the back is higher than the front. When I gravel vacuum I can see that water is getting pulled up through, as gravel from the bottom is being sucked up and settles on the top. I just wish there was a way to tell if the water is actually getting sucked through the gravel with the lift tubes! I'm guessing this setup is probably from the 80's, largely because the tank glass is thick and heavy, and the fake woodgrain detail on the tank itself.

If I add a sponge filter to this setup, will it help get 'bits' out of the water? Random floaties and whatnot... for example, I have a rabbit and that hair gets around... or sometimes that towel you dried your hands on wasn't as "lint free" as you thought...

I have an airstone in the center of the tank mostly just looking pretty and extra surface agitation. It would be an easy spot to stick a sponge, I think...

 

I have goldfish and I hear they can be murder on plants... so I've just got marimos so far. I do like the idea of doing sort of "container plants" or hanging them from a lattice on the back wall, or any of those other things you'd do in a regular garden when you don't have/can't plant in the grass!

 

I love all the info in this thread. It's just what I've been looking for. Thank you so much, everyone who is chiming in here!

 

The gravel filter I have now came with the tank I bought. It has a "rick rack" design instead of a grate. It had some tiny gravel chips stuck in it that I couldn't really get out (the tank I got was pretty dirty, but for the price I wasn't gonna complain). It's pitched so that the back is higher than the front. When I gravel vacuum I can see that water is getting pulled up through, as gravel from the bottom is being sucked up and settles on the top. I just wish there was a way to tell if the water is actually getting sucked through the gravel with the lift tubes! I'm guessing this setup is probably from the 80's, largely because the tank glass is thick and heavy, and the fake woodgrain detail on the tank itself.

If I add a sponge filter to this setup, will it help get 'bits' out of the water? Random floaties and whatnot... for example, I have a rabbit and that hair gets around... or sometimes that towel you dried your hands on wasn't as "lint free" as you thought...

I have an airstone in the center of the tank mostly just looking pretty and extra surface agitation. It would be an easy spot to stick a sponge, I think...

Yes a sponge would suck in the little floaty bits. I put a sponge on the intake of my friend's hob after an unfortunate incident where a guppy got suked into it. It had the bonus of sucking up decaying plant pieces, keeping pond snails out of the filter more than before, and generally keeping it cleaner.