How many fancy goldfish should I add in my 40 gallon breeder?

  1. N

    NighttHawk Valued Member Member

    I was thinking of 2, 1 black moor and 1 oranda both being between 2-3 inches. I have an urge to add 5 ghost shrimps and 1-2 snails. I have 2 HOB filters 1 is 125 gallons per hour and the other is 350 gph and also has bio filter, I also have a 48 inch bubble wall bubbler. So 475 gallons of filtration (more than x10 filtration) +bubbler. I would have to cycle my tank though. I beleive walmart sells amonia to begin my cycle. Would I need to add in the safe start to add fish even if I dont have fish or not needed? Also Do I need to get bacteria or will bacteria form on its own with the ammonia. Once the ammonia goes to 0 in 24 hours my tank is cycled right? So after would I have to do a 50% water change or 90%-100%?
     
  2. LWormy

    LWormy Valued Member Member

    I would add safestart and only have 2 goldfish because quality of life is more important than quantity of life. If you use safestart you don't need to do fishless cycle. And I would test for nitrate after your cycle and if it's high do a 70% WC. I personally find using old media or substrate really helpful so you might want to try that too.
     
  3. Aster

    Aster Well Known Member Member

    On a side note, I'm pretty sure that goldfish will eat the shrimp, and possibly snails too. Just putting that out there so you don't waste your money on some expensive snacks :)
     
  4. LWormy

    LWormy Valued Member Member

    I disagree. I have my 2 fancy with about 30 cherry shrimps, MTS, trapdoor snails, and ramshorn and they've all been going strong for 2 years now. You just need plenty of hiding spots and densely grown plants in the back for the shrimps to hide. It helps to have mosses too. You just need to make sure your tank's established before introducing your goldfish.
     
  5. el337

    el337 Fishlore Legend Member

    Welcome to the forum :)

    I would first read up on the nitrogen cycle as that would be the first step to keeping fish.

    You can cycle without a bacteria supplement as the nitrifying bacteria that processes the ammonia will form. This cycle can take up to 12 weeks. You can, however, use a bacteria supplement like Tetra SafeStart Plus or Seachem Stability (the ones most recommended) to speed things up and will cut down the cycling time to about 2-3 weeks. The bacteria aids can be used with both fishless and fish-in cycling.

    If you are going to use pure ammonia (make sure it has no dyes, perfumes or surfactants), dose up to 2ppm only. Keep testing daily, checking for nitrite and nitrates. Once you can dose 2ppm ammonia and the ammonia and nitrite are converted to 0 in 24 hrs with some nitrates, you are cycled.

    Here are a couple of threads for more info:

    https://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/...9627-ammonia-instructions-fishless-cycle.html

    https://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/aquarium-nitrogen-cycle/58116-q-tetra-tetra-safestart.html

    Do you own a test kit? I would get one to monitor these parameters. The one most recommended is API Freshwater Master Test Kit.
     
  6. Aster

    Aster Well Known Member Member

    Hmm, really? Others have reported that their goldfish ate their shrimp and small snails. I guess it's one of those hit and miss things.
     
  7. OP
    OP
    N

    NighttHawk Valued Member Member

    When I add safe start do I keep adding everyday and do water changes until water is cycled? Or should I just go with fish less cycle with ammonia bottle from Walmart. I'll start the cycle this Thursday or Friday. Waiting on some decorations for the tank to get here. So my filtration and oxygen are perfect right? Should I add live plants? Do they require special gravel or some expensive liquid?
     
  8. el337

    el337 Fishlore Legend Member

    You'll want to first decide what method you will be cycling - with fish or without fish? You can use TSS+ for either.

    You'll want to read those threads I linked you to but basically, for fishless, you'll want to fill your tank with dechlorinated tap water, then 24 hrs later, dose pure ammonia to 2ppm and add an entire bottle of TSS+ (that says Start-Up on the front) that's appropriate for your tank size. Keep testing daily for ammonia, nitrite and nitrates. When ammonia finally starts decreasing, you should see nitrites, then nitrates. Anytime ammonia goes down to 0.25, dose it back up to 2ppm. When ammonia and nitrite are converted to 0 in 24 hrs and you see rising nitrates, you are cycled. Do a 90% water change and add a few small fish the next day.

    For fish-in, you'll want to follow the same steps except since your ammonia source is fish waste, you just add TSS+ with the fish together (pick 4-5 small fish) and then do NO water changes for 2 weeks. If after 2 weeks, you show 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite and some nitrates you are cycled. Do a large enough water change to bring the nitrates down to 20ppm or below.

    Your filtration sounds good. Live plants is really up to you but it's always a plus for fish. They can grow in any substrate and if you stick with easy, low-light plants you don't really need to add any ferts. Here's a thread for more help on that:

    https://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/content/297-how-set-up-low-light-low-tech-planted-tank.html