How Long To Quarantine After Ellobiopsidae?

Discussion in 'Cherry Shrimp' started by Irlandaise, Apr 20, 2019.

  1. IrlandaiseNew MemberMember

    I received an infected shrimp in a recent order. He appeared to have ellobiopsidae, and none of the others in the order showed signs of infection, so I quarantined him.

    After a week and a half of salt dips and Paraguard treatments there's no more visible green on him. How much longer should I keep treating him? How long should I quarantine for?
     

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  2. RtessyFishlore VIPMember

    I'm assuming this is the before picture, lol.
    I think @sinned4g63 and @richie.p will have a better idea than me
     




  3. IrlandaiseNew MemberMember

    Yeah, just envision the same little guy, just without the green fuzz!

    I realized I should detail treatment steps, in case it's useful for anyone else. I ramped up the salt dip time and Paraguard dosing over the first few days; I'm on day ten now.

    Quarantine set up: 1 gallon glass jar, with 0.5 gallon dechlorinated tap water and a small clump of java moss, no filter, no heater

    Daily: Put 1 cup (each) of tank water into two bowls. Dissolve 1 tsp aquarium salt in one. Dip the shrimp and moss in salt water for 5 minutes; move to second bowl to rinse off salt. Meanwhile, dump out tank water and rinse jar with hot tap water. Refill with half gallon dechlorinated room-temp water; add 0.3 ml Seachem Paraguard. Feed very small amount of food soaked in more Paraguard.
     




  4. david1978Fishlore LegendMember

    The biggest thing is there really isn't much info out there about it. A few years back it was just euthanize them all and sorry for your loss. So time wise after last seeing symptoms is hard to say.
     




  5. richie.pWell Known MemberMember

    Croseo welcome to fishlore @Irlandaise
    Not only is there nothing out there like @david1978 as mentioned but theres certainly nothing I'm aware of as to the treatment you've done and what looks like successfully treating this disease, this is new ground for many of us, if your absolutely sure its cleared and you do decide to stop treatment I'd keep him in quarantine for two weeks and see how it goes. (That is only advisory) as at this time you are more knowledgeable about this than any of us, what you and @sinned4g63 is doing is so important in the management of this disease that I hope somehow both treatments can be merged together and put as a locked thread for future shrimpers, please keep us informed of what and how you do things as this is so important, thankyou so much for sharing this.
     
  6. david1978Fishlore LegendMember

     
    I like researching stuff I don't know much about.
     
  7. richie.pWell Known MemberMember

    This is the document that we moved to once the h202 was a failure I will admit I overlooked the paraguard treatment when I first read it, don't know what I was thinking there and we moved onto the Kordon Rid-ic plus mixed with food,even after 15 years this is about the best we could come up with and didn't really know what was going to happen. I think it's safe to say two up to date treatments have been tried by @sinned4g63 & @Irlandaise which seem to be working, the other thing that's not clear is he treated it for over a week but doesn't say how long and if he did keep them quarantined after they were clear, on the way I read it he dipped all in paraguard and job done returned to tank, perhaps you can make a bit more sence of it than I, it seems @Irlandaise can dip in paraguard and return them to their tank, another key part to all the is recognising the Ellobiopsaide early enough for safe treatment
     
  8. david1978Fishlore LegendMember

    I didn't see a time line either but it was about the only complete article I could find. Rachel oleary touches on it but then links this article.
     
  9. tjanderWell Known MemberMember

    Hey all, you sure that the shrimp is not just with eggs? Just asking?

    Also, again just tossing this out, the quality of the shrimp does not look that good, if it is infected wouldn’t it be better to just euthanize it vice the risk of infecting the tank?
     
  10. richie.pWell Known MemberMember

    The shrimp is definitely diseased with Ellobiopsaide but can see how it can be mistaken for eggs and yes back 14 years ago and even today most would have euthanized the shrimp because of the lack of information about the disease, it's only doings things like this can people learn and maybe find a cure that's a lot quicker than present, I'm not one for killing or euthanizeing if at all possible but understand sometimes theres no option, the other point to remember is if a shrimp died of Ellobiopsaide and it was unnoticed all the shrimp that took part in devouring it would be affected and as you say it could be mistaken for eggs, you then run the risk of killing all infected or treating
     
  11. IrlandaiseNew MemberMember

    It's hard to get a good picture, but it was very clear in person that it wasn't eggs; it was bright green, and kind of fuzzy/spiky looking.

    The green is gone now, but I'm keeping the shrimp in quarantine to see what happens. I stopped dosing the Paraguard yesterday, and will just do salt dips and clean the tank/100% water change for a week or so to see if it comes back.

    I'm treating rather than euthanizing because it seems wrong to kill an animal I'm responsible for when I might be able to cure it with a few minutes of daily effort and materials I already had on hand.
     
  12. david1978Fishlore LegendMember

    Don't get me wrong I'm not pushing the euthanizing thing by any means. Its just treatments that actually help are newer things. Now this was by trial and error mostly by hobbyists such as yourself.
     
  13. IrlandaiseNew MemberMember

    Yeah, it's definitely something that would have to be replicated by others to be declared a definitive "treatment". I settled on trying salt dips and Paraguard after reading a bunch of different ideas others had tried, including that Discobee article, partially because I had the materials already, and partially because both salt dips and Paraguard are relatively mild but effective for other issues, so I figured it couldn't hurt.

    A lot of the difficulty seems to lie just in the fact that there's not a good consensus on what this parasite actually is. Some of the stuff I read said that it might be actually more than one kind of parasite or infection, and that people are lumping all "green fuzz on the pleopods" together. If that's true, it might explain why some people succeed with one treatment while others fail.

    Anyway, the little dude has good color, no visible infection, and is behaving normally. I'm not going to put him in with my other shrimps any time soon, but so far he's looking good.
     
  14. david1978Fishlore LegendMember

    I think the part of the problem with coming to a definite concensous lies in hobbyists as well. We don't put things under miscropes and document like a scientist would. We go by our eyes and others successes with our own little twists. It good to hear that its working for you.
     
  15. richie.pWell Known MemberMember

    Documenting what you've done from the start is very important to us all as you've treated and definitely looks like cured this disease with time and patience, I can see why some would euthanize as it's been quite a task you took on to save this little critter and it's what we do for the love of this hobby and as you say we have a duty of care to look after them, after all they didn't ask to be put in a tank just to be euthanize at the first sign of trouble, I think you've don a fantastic job, and I look forward to reading your report should you decide to put one together
     
  16. sinned4g63Well Known MemberMember

    I'm bummed I didn't see this sooner.. but hopefully now I'll see any further updates Haha. I had a conversation about my shrimp with someone recently that questioned why I was trying to treat it always referring back to the fact that it's a tiny $6 shrimp.. but what were doing here is certainly going to help others in the future. Whether the shrimp makes it or not I can always get another but if most consider it doomed without treatment then how much worse can things get? We have furthered our knowledge on the subject making us that more of a competent doctor for our aquatic pets. That was my response to treating a seemingly cheap and insignificant pet. To me my shrimp is no different then my betta or my cats and dogs, I'll try to help any way I can.
     
  17. IrlandaiseNew MemberMember

    Update: Now doing salt dips and 100% water changes every other day. Still no visible return of green fuzz. Shrimp is active, and had a molt yesterday (which I cleaned out of the tank).
     

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  18. richie.pWell Known MemberMember

    when do you intent to return him to the main tank
     
  19. IrlandaiseNew MemberMember

    Not sure, I haven't been able to find any information on the parasite's life cycle or how long it can remain undetected
     
  20. richie.pWell Known MemberMember

    The only one I found and they put the shrimp back in as soon as it cleared
     
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