How long did it take you to cycle?

QUOTE=Vash;855658]I am having a really slow progressing fishless cycle.
It's day 8 for me for my 10 gallon. And day 3 for my 40 gallon.
At the end of day 3 for 10 gallon, I got a driftwood from a friend's well established large (probably 75g+) aquarium. On day 6 I moved the driftwood into the 40 gallon which is day 1 for the 40 gallon. I used two sponge filters and a canister on the 10 gallon until the end of day 5, and then I moved one sponge filter and the canister to the 40 gallon.

The days don't matter. The only things that matter are your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate readings. Keeping track of days is only going to make it that much more difficult to be patient.

So far I got 0 nitrite reading in both tanks. Means no ammonia has been convertedBut in the 10 gallon, nitrate reading is about 15...however, some of it might come from the water I got from my friend's. Definitely came from the water I put maybe 1 gallon of his tank water into my 10 gallon tank when I planted this driftwood. His tank water had nitrate reading of 20+. He had squeezed his filter media in the water he gave to me. Squeezing the media is not as good as it seems
I don't see why I am making no progress. It's days 8 and 3 Ammonia does drop in the 10 gallon since day 1 with 0 nitrite reading and 0 nitrate reading. If you have 0 nitrites and nitrates, then the ammonia was not converted.... I got the nitrate reading after I used friend's water, but the nitrate does seem to have raised since with no noticeable large decrease in ammonia, and nitrite always holds at 0. If your ammonia is not going down and you have no nitrites, then I suspect you may be misreading the nitrate test.
I am getting impatient. Yes, you are My Red cherry shrimps are dying, and I am waiting to use either tanks. Getting fish before your fishless cycle is complete will surely add to your impatience. I heard with access to established tank, the cycle time can be 5~14 days. If you had gotten some of his filter media, it would have been instant. Why I don't see any real progress in my 10 gallon which has been cycled for 8 days? Because your tank isn;t cycled. You chose an inefficient means to cycle your tank. All you need is some of his filter media. Stick it in your filter and viola![
P.S. The temperature is 83~85F.
I have lots of white spider web like things build up on rocks, decoration etc. I read somewhere it's the stress coat... It is annoying.[/QUOTE]

Before you add the media from your friend, Do a water change to get the ammonia concentration down to under 2 ppm.

 

I got a big driftwood from him. (as many many articles instructed). The squeeze of filter media is a big bonus as some articles said it is rich in bacterias.
His Power Filter media will not fit into my Canister Filter. So getting his filter media will be out of question. E


It is 9 days and still 0 nitrite reading. Completely 0.
I know the bacterias require time to be large enough number to convert ammonia fast. That does not mean that before they have sufficient amount they will not be eating ammonia at all. They do, just not significant amount. However, small and increasing number of bacterias should have had culminated at least some small tiny amount of nitrite in 9 days to be registered on the readings. But nope. 0 nitrite.

I did test every day. I can't misread multiple times. 0 Nitrate would be snow white color on my test kit, but it clearly showed pink and getting more red which is the color of registered readings of nitrate.

So on one hand, ammonia isn't decreasing for real, on the other hand, nitrate is going up slowly without having any tiny bit of nitrite.

I see this as problem.

 

I am new, but I don't think I made any critical mistake or missed any steps. The critical mistake was not getting media from your friends filter.[

I did weeks of research and read countless articles and forum threads about cycling before I actually started. You can't teach experience. There are so many factors that no two cycles are alike....unless you use filter media from a cycled filter - then it's instant.

Unless the articles I read were wrong. There is that possibility. You never really know who's behind the words you read on a computer screen, unless it's published.
They stated that by using low to middle 80s F could speed up the reproduce of bacterias. This is true. Warm water speads up the life cycle of fish as well.
They also stated that 3~5 or even a little more ammonia should be ideal for ammonia eating bacterias. This is also true.

I don't have plants in there, I don't change water. I used pure ammonia.

Well unless my test kit somehow can't read nitrIte, I don't see how nitrite was always 0 after 9 days. This could be. What kind of test kit?

I hope people read more carefully before replying. I did state that my ammonia level in a fishless cycle wasn't dropping fast in my first post. Can't have high level of ammonia in a fishless cycle if I did not add any.

This is true, but YOUR the one who needs help so it would behouth you to provide such information rather than relying on people to read between the lines. You never said HOW the ammonia got in the tank. Some people have ammonia right out of the tap. People who have high concentrations of chloramine in their water will also result in readable amounts of ammonia. There are A LOT of variables to considder.

Even though the ammonia had dropped at least once magically on the first a few days since day 1, there was 0 nitrate reading until I got the driftwood from my friend's tank. Since then, ammonia hasn't really dropped, nitrite was always 0, nitrate had magically raised.

I started to think my kit's nitrite test is defect.

It's quite possible your test kit is not right. What are you using?

The bottom line is that is your ammonia is not dropping, then you most definitely don't have nitrites.

 

I got a big driftwood from him. (as many many articles instructed). The squeeze of filter media is a big bonus as some articles said it is rich in bacterias.
His Power Filter media will not fit into my Canister Filter. So getting his filter media will be out of question. E Out of the question? It's not out of the question. You just have to look at it a different way. It takes a little creativity, but is easy to do. And it's ideal.

So on one hand, ammonia isn't decreasing for real, on the other hand, nitrate is going up slowly without having any tiny bit of nitrite.

I see this as problem.

The problem is you used one of the least efficient means to quick start your tank. ALL YOU NEED IS THE USED FILTER MEDIA

 

Lets please not treat me like a noob that is missing some important step.
Of course I added pure ammonia, and watched the levels closely.

One of the things I've learned in this forum when trying to guide someone, is to never take anything for granted.

I'm trying to help you. No need to be rude or condescending.

Thank you, Jaysee.

 

Just so you know. I got my liquid test kit today. In my 40 gallon tank, it measured
ammonia 0.25
nitrite 0.25
nitrate somewhere between 20~40.

Guess what. The old strip test kit still show 0 nitrite the whole time.

Guess the cycle is almost done. It has been 10 days for the 40 gallon.

 

Well your close. You have to wait till ammonia and nitrites are at 0 and your done.

10 days is actually a short time for fishless cycling. The last time I cycled a tank (10 gal two months ago) it took between 14-18 days.

You need to keep adding ammonia, get it up to 1ppm every day now. Take readings 24 hours after you add ammonia and when your ammonia gets to 0 and nitrites are 0 your good.

 

I would suggest you go get your water tested at a LFS or petco or something of the like, if you want to check if your test kit is defective. I highly doubt it though, as I work in an analytical chemistry lab and we the quality assurance of any test kit very seriously.

Idk dude, you shouldnt have bought the shrimp yet... Sorry to hear they are dying off.

 

Hello Vash,

I'm glad to see that you now have a liquid test kit. This thread just proves how inaccurate paper test strips can be.

I think you're well on your way to being cycled. Hang in there

Ken

 

It seems a little odd to have ammonia, nitrites and nitrates all at the same time, so if it were me, I would test my tap water to make sure it doesn't contain ammonia, nitites or nitrates.

 

It seems a little odd to have ammonia, nitrites and nitrates all at the same time, so if it were me, I would test my tap water to make sure it doesn't contain ammonia, nitites or nitrates.

I never did any water change during the cycle. So I doubt it has to do with the make up of my tap water.

It is probably because I had added way too much ammonia in there. I added it several times and the concentration was getting out of hand because it wasn't really dropping at all. I assume it needed time to get ride of all those ammonia. Since I got the driftwood from a well established aquarium, I guess there were some nitrite consuming bacterias from the start. I was getting nitrate reading on the third day on the strip test kits, but since it wouldn't show nitrite so I thought it wasn't really making any progress.


Update: After the test yesterday, I added quite a bit ammonia(I think it was more than one full stocked tank can produce). I just tested it again.
Ammonia 0.5
Nitrite 1.0
Nitrate close to 40



As for my 10 gallon,
I had put my remaining Red Cherry Shrimps and 2 Zebra snails into it two days ago. I figured that they will probably have better chance in there than in the one gallon containers they were in.
One day after
Ammonia 0.5
Nitrite 0
Nitrate <5

Two days after
Ammonia 0.25
Nitrite 0
Nitrate <5

I have two live plants in there.
On the side note, my red Cherry shrimps were almost transparent in the 1 gallon container, but all turned much more red soon after I placed them in the 10 gallon. Is this normal? All my dead ones had turned into the most red ones among the group right before they died. Right now these remaining ones are quite active in the 10 gallon. They never stop searching for food everywhere including on the sponge filter, unlike the dead ones which all became inactive before they died.
P.S. I have only 5 out of the original 12 left. For the last whole day, I was only able to count total 4 every time I tried to count all 5. There are a few hiding places I can't see the inside though.
The two Zebra Snails too, seems to be constantly on the move. Are well fed snails suppose to be on the move most of the time?

 

Update


I guess the bacterias for nitrite is not enough yet.

For the last a few days, I might have added way too much ammonia on daily basis.

It turns out in the last two days, ammonia was always 0 after 24 hours. And was still 0 after just 12 hours of adding ammonia yesterday. But the nitrite build up is off chart. My liquid test kit can only show 5.0 nitrite. It is definitely much more than that.

Also, my nitrate is off chart as well. It's hard to tell the color difference between 40 and 80, but either the color of them isn't accurate(they look the same to me on the test result sheet), or...the nitrate is over 160 which is off chart. (This gives me the impression that nitrite is being turned into nitrate at a fast rate, but just too much to handle)

The PH was always 7.8 in the aquarium.
Somehow it has changed to 6.6 !!!

Does super high nitrite or nitrate usually lower the PH?



I also did a test on my tap water, both untreated and treated.
0 for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate on both.
However, I just discovered that my untreated tap water has PH of 8.2
Treated tap water(with Aquasafe) however, has PH of 7.8

Any input? Should I do some partial water change to lower the nitrite and nitrate a bit? I heard too much of them might actually stale the cycling.

 

Cycling using ammonia:

Introduce pure ammonia to cycle the aquarium. You can buy unscented ammonia with no additives from a supermarket or a bottle of ammonium chloride.

Add ammonia from a dropper, 3 - 5 drops per 10 gallons of water per day to get and maintain a reading of 5 ppm.

Initially there will be no nitrites. Monitor nitrites daily and continue the daily ammonia dose until you get a nitrite reading. At this point you can reduce the daily amount of ammonia to 2 - 3 drops per 10 gallons. Continue this until both the ammonia test and the nitrite test reads 0 ppm.

This method can take as little as three weeks or up to six weeks to complete the nitrification cycle, but adding a starter culture as described above can speed the time up considerably.

When the cycle is complete reduce the temperature slowly back to 74 ° to 80 ° F(26 ° - 28 ° C). Reducing it quickly can stress the bacteria.
Do a major water change, about 90%, and add activated carbon to remove any possible additives which might have been in the ammonia.

 

I did the same thing

Wanted to hurry up my cycle and it took forever! (nearly five weeks)
I added the product "cycle" (bacteria starter like biospora) on about week two and it messed with my readings and made them basically useless to show the progression of the cycle, only snapshots of water chemistry.
I also used Parsons ammonia which as about the worst thing I could have done.
Broke down everything and rinsed and rinsed 90% water changes, started over with two giant tiger shrimp in a pantyhose foot and then got a normal progression. Smelly but awesome in the end... because I got to fully stock my tank when it was done. ;-)

Glad you got a liquid test kit, my API Freshwater master test is the best!

The presence of both types of bacteria is good but you need to let them come into balance now (this is why adding the "cycle" midway messed me up, I was having die off and inhibited growth of both stages starving the food source of the other)

A very knowledgeable hobbyist told me to begin doing 50% partial water changes to get my nitrite down to a measurable level with my kit and then monitor it daily for three days. If it climbs again, you know you have a good strong established second stage colony.

Some may disagree but water changes, especially at the point in the game you are, will not hamper or slow down the process (which trying to speed it up like I did does) as very little bacteria live in the water column itself, but the hard surfaces and the filter media where they can "cling" and reproduce are where they thrive.

If I EVER have to start a tank from scratch again, I will take the biomax insert from my filter (or any ceramic biofilter media in bulk, placed in a filter media bag, all available from the petstore) and have someone run it for a week in their filter (it should fit, you can make it do so with the filter media bag) or get some of their media (carbon or floss or a whole insert).
And if I can't do that, I'll set it up, stick my two big (one big one per 10 gallons of water) fresh or frozen cocktail shrimp in cheesecloth or a nylon and just test every three days until I get 0,0,and some ungodly number lol.

 

My "LFS" is limited to a super walmart. Thus I will have to buy online, and the shipping cost will be $35 no matter how many fish I order. So I plan to order full stock at once. (I know it is recommended to add a few fish at a time. That doesn't suit my situation). I will need as many bacterias as possible to handle the full load at once.



In my case,
Ammonia was converted as fast as I want. I felt that I had to maintain at least 2.0 Ammonia to keep the bacterias not to "die back".

So I did. And believe, me, it takes much much more than just 2~3 drops per 10 gallon to reach 2.0 ammonia with my 10% ammonia solution.
But now the bacterias for ammonia can get ride of 2.0 of it no problem, while the nitrite bacterias can't keep it up, yet I do see massive increase in nitrate as well.

My conclusion is that the ammonia bacterias has reached sufficient amount for a full stocked tank, while nitrite bacterias could not keep up yet I do not intend to have the ammonia bacterias to die back by adding less ammonia. You can never have too many bacterias.

So I guess some partial water change is needed to keep nitrite reading on the chart.


Could someone please answer my question about the PH 2 posts ago?

 

Ordering your complete stock at one time is not a good plan, unless you've planned for it. Once your fishless cycle is complete, you'll need to build up your bacteria colony by feeding it increased dosages of ammonia.

 

In my case,
Ammonia was converted as fast as I want. I felt that I had to maintain at least 2.0 Ammonia to keep the bacterias not to "die back".

So I did. And believe, me, it takes much much more than just 2~3 drops per 10 gallon to reach 2.0 ammonia with my 10% ammonia solution.
But now the bacterias for ammonia can get ride of 2.0 of it no problem, while the nitrite bacterias can't keep it up, yet I do see massive increase in nitrate as well.

My conclusion is that the ammonia bacterias has reached sufficient amount for a full stocked tank, while nitrite bacterias could not keep up yet I do not intend to have the ammonia bacterias to die back by adding less ammonia. You can never have too many bacterias.

So I guess some partial water change is needed to keep nitrite reading on the chart.


Could someone please answer my question about the PH 2 posts ago?

Though rare, and this almost happened to me, you might not have enough surface areas and filter media to support a large enough colony of second stage since it sounds like from your readings and posts you have a supersize colony of first stage like I did to be able to process that much ammonia in the time you are giving (again, like I did)

Jaysee is right... it's not normal to go to full stock but if you plan for it, as I did and you are, it can be done, especially since you should know how fast your biofilter is processing by dosing the tank to 1ppm of ammonia and if the biofilter processes it to 0 in 12 hours, it's very strong.
Note*** Fully Stock is different from over-stock, which I'm sure you know, you can have the best strongest healty biofilter ever and then introduce twice as many fish as your aquarium and biofilter can handle and mini-cycle.

For the PH... two things are happening, which are normal. Your PH is dropping from the elevated nitrAte (which is nitric acid) which means the cycle is working and it is either SO elevated it's exhausting your water's alkalinity/ buffering capacity or your source water has a very low alkalinity/ buffering capacity. This is why high nitrAte is bad... as it builds up, it lowers the PH of the water depending on the buffering capacity of the water.

The shortfall of the API freshwater master test kit is it's lack of a KH/alkalinity test kit (they really aren't the same thing, but are used interchangeably). Super wal-mart is probably not going to have a KH test, but if you can find a strip test that has it, it's better than nothing.

Since there are no fish in your tank, the swinging PH is still okay, but once you get your first and second stage colonies in line where you can process from 1 ppm of ammonia to 0 in 12 hours along with maintaining a 0 of nitrIte... do a big water change (testing source water) till the nitrAte is 5ppm or less. Then test the PH. It should stabilize.

Note* Learned the hard way... big water changes often require turning off the filter b/c the waterline drops below the intake. Make SURE the water level in the filter box, canister, etc. completely covers the media so it doesn't dry out.

A really great article on water chemistry...sorry I don't know how to make it a link but if you copy and paste it, that works.



Also... bacteria reproduce very quickly. A colony can double in size in 24 hours, so if your second stage bacteria aren't keeping up, there is another problem (which I SUSPECT is that you have such a supersize colony of first stage the second stage doesn't have enough surface area/filter media "room" to stick and colonize).
Check this article out... it can explain it in detail



I've come to know that keeping the bacteria healthy is more important than keeping the fish healthy. The first takes care of the second, which if you'll allow me to wax poetic, lol, saw a great quote from another member.

"we are not keepers of fish, but rather water. If we maintain the water, the fish will tend to themselves"

 

Thanks for answering my questions.

Yes, I have soft water. Before I got the liquid test kit, I had a 5 in one strip test kit. It showed my water hardness at 75 and it is labeled under "soft".

I did test my tap water as I mentioned a few posts ago.
It has 0 readings in all 3 (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate). Untreated tap water here has PH of 8.2 !!! Treated tap water PH is 7.8.

Is there any good and safe way to raise my water's hardness? I don't want my aquarium water PH drop THAT much when I add fish for real lol.

As for water change, if the readings of nitrite and nitrate are accurate, even if I do 75% water change it will take me a few times in a row to get them down lol.

My EHEIM Classic 2213 is rated for "up to 66 gallon". I know how the rating of manufacturers are always higher than what we prefer, but I really have maybe only around 30 gallon of water in the tank. I also have a Hydro Sponge Pro III on the intake of the EHEIM.

Tomorrow I will do a substrate change(change from flourite to eco-complete). I also got 4 more decoration with good surface areas. Maybe that should balance out the surfaces area for the two different bacterias a bit.

I guess since I settled my RCS in the 10 gallon, I am not in a hurry to stock up the 40 gallon. I can wait a few more weeks if I need to.

 

So I plan to order full stock at once. (I know it is recommended to add a few fish at a time. That doesn't suit my situation).

It's not about you. It's about the fish. At some point, we all figure that out, usually the hard way. It's a heck of an "AHA" moment.

...it takes much much more than just 2~3 drops per 10 gallon to reach 2.0 ammonia with my 10% ammonia solution.

I must have missed where you indicated that you were not able to find the proper type of ammonia to start your fishless cycle. Sorry.

 

It's not about you. It's about the fish. At some point, we all figure that out, usually the hard way. It's a heck of an "AHA" moment.




I must have missed where you indicated that you were not able to find the proper type of ammonia to start your fishless cycle. Sorry.

I already spent lots of $$$ and it's getting out of hands.

I am not about to spend $35 (shipping) repeatedly to get fish in different batches. One $35 for shipping is bad enough.
I know it's all about the bio-load. So which in my opinion if my filters can handle high ammonia, it should be ok for full load of fish waste as well.

My source of ammonia is ok. Some other people had used it as well.
It is 10% pure ammonia with 90% water. I don't see a problem with that. It smells so bad already. If I do get 100% (if it exist), I think I'll pass out once I open the bottle.

 

Was the strip measuring KH or GH? They are different, and it would be better to test the water column now, as we're seeing your parameters are all still in flux because of cycling.
You are wanting to measure the KH, and ideally it should be 20 ppm or mg/L or better.
Although again, this is something that would be best to address when the cycle completes.

Adding limestone rock can increase the KH, but it will also increase the GH (General Hardness) or you can also add pure baking soda to increase your buffering capacity, which is a pain because it has to be tested and redone for your pwc's. There is a calculator online but I have never had to do this so can not verify it's accuracy. I decided to acclimate my black neon tetras to my 7.8 ph tap water rather than try to lower it to their ideal ph and stress them out, and then having to worry with the buffering capacity of my source water when doing pwc's... too much work and mad scientist and my fish would stop being fun and become a chore. When I bought them I had the fish store test their water and the pH was the same since it was on the same water supply as my home (in the city).

 

Was the strip measuring KH or GH? They are different, and it would be better to test the water column now, as we're seeing your parameters are all still in flux because of cycling.
You are wanting to measure the KH, and ideally it should be 20 ppm or mg/L or better.
Although again, this is something that would be best to address when the cycle completes.

Adding limestone rock can increase the KH, but it will also increase the GH (General Hardness) or you can also add pure baking soda to increase your buffering capacity, which is a pain because it has to be tested and redone for your pwc's. There is a calculator online but I have never had to do this so can not verify it's accuracy. I decided to acclimate my black neon tetras to my 7.8 ph tap water rather than try to lower it to their ideal ph and stress them out, and then having to worry with the buffering capacity of my source water when doing pwc's... too much work and mad scientist and my fish would stop being fun and become a chore. When I bought them I had the fish store test their water and the pH was the same since it was on the same water supply as my home (in the city).

On my test strips,

GH (Total Hardness) - 75 (soft)
KH (Total Alkalinity)) - 40 (low)

I have only 1 test strip left.


Where do I get the limestone rocks?
Is too hard water bad for fish? Somehow I do need a little hard water for my snails and shrimps since I suspect some of my shrimps died because of molting problems.

 

double post, sorry

 

Also... just curious why you're changing the substrate. And I hear you on costs out of hand... truthfully given enough time most of these problems will self correct if you research it online and address the cause. But a lot of stores want to sell products, which are important but I personally DETEST adding anything other than water conditioner to my tank.
I have PRIME onhand (which conditions water and you can emergency dose to lock ammonia and nitrite for 24 hours) and my liquid test kit. That's it. Oh, and food
Again, until you go those massive water changes to get your water at readable levels, I wouldn't worry so much about the pH, except if it gets any lower we'll start killing bacteria.
I am a fan of fishless cycling, but with frozen/fresh shrimp for TWO reasons... one, easier to find than pure ammonia and two, you hang it in it's nylon over the tank of the side and that's it. It is a continuous and constant supply of ammonia.
When I messed up trying to speed up with the cycle and not knowing my ammonia was so hI from adding liquid ammonia too much at the beginning and flooded the tank with nitrite the tank never would have cycled without the water changes and took so long I had to replace my shrimp as they had decayed away but other than that I still think it's easier and better than the liquid ammonia method, IMHO (and I know that doesn't help you Vash, just people who might read the thread later researching fishless cycling).

LyndaB, I know where you're coming from... I would NEVER tell someone they could fully stock a newly cycled tank if I wasn't sure they knew EXACTLY what they were doing and how to test water parameters and calculate the efficiency of the biofilter, but again, it can be done. Any someone who tries will kill a lot of fish before the tank settles, so if you're reading this and being tempted, you must know exactly what you're doing or you'll waste a lot of money and a lot of fish lives.

 

I already spent lots of $$$ and it's getting out of hands.

I am not about to spend $35 (shipping) repeatedly to get fish in different batches. One $35 for shipping is bad enough.
I know it's all about the bio-load. So which in my opinion if my filters can handle high ammonia, it should be ok for full load of fish waste as well.

My source of ammonia is ok. Some other people had used it as well.
It is 10% pure ammonia with 90% water. I don't see a problem with that. It smells so bad already. If I do get 100% (if it exist), I think I'll pass out once I open the bottle.

It's not all about the bioload, that's just the first hurdle. Adding several different species at once can result in a high stress environment and lead to disease and death. ALSO, if you get a diseased fish they may get all the others sick. Some species need time to adjust so that they will more readily accept additions to the tank. Some species require a mature tank. SO it really will be determined by the mix of fish you are wanting to add.

You are correct, there is no 100% ammonia. 10% is what is available, and what you should be using.

 

So, 10% ammonia is what they mean when they refer to "pure" ammonia? That's confusing.....

 

So, 10% ammonia is what they mean when they refer to "pure" ammonia? That's confusing.....

Its a 10% solution in water, any more potent and it could be corrosive (I think), this is a safe dillution for the public.

 

I already spent lots of $$$ and it's getting out of hands.

I am not about to spend $35 (shipping) repeatedly to get fish in different batches. One $35 for shipping is bad enough.
I know it's all about the bio-load. So which in my opinion if my filters can handle high ammonia, it should be ok for full load of fish waste as well.

Since you've decided to add the full load at once, make sure you have Prime on hand, and test your water daily for several weeks. Also, I think you should expect that there could be some fish loss, as your fish will probably be stressed. Just be ready for the possibility.

So, 10% ammonia is what they mean when they refer to "pure" ammonia? That's confusing.....

yep.

 

There's a ton of debate on this but I believe for the most part hard/soft only comes into real consideration when trying to get your fish to breed and then rear the fry. Most of your stock in the trade is not wild-caught, it has been breeder and tank raised for generations now. I don't keep cichlids but I know they really like or need hard water, especially if being conditioned to breed. I keep tetra's, which is a soft water fish that does fine in mine which is both hard by GH and KH. This is actually good, because the high KH helps keep my pH stable.
I bought limestone rock because it "looked cool" at my fish store and then found out later it was increasing the hardness of my water. They have it for what I described earlier, making the water harder for cichlids. I left it because the cover it provides is good and the tetras do fine with it, and it is not a parameter I monitor.

More about hardness

What's your stocking plan anyway?

 

I'm pretty sure by "pure" ammonia, they mean with no additives or detergents, which is the kind sold in most stores for cleaning. That is why using Parsons was an EPIC FAIL to begin my fishless cycling when I started out. You can know "pure" ammonia (which is the straight ammonia and water) because it's clear, and you can shake it and it will not sud.
And I'm with Meenu, get some PRIME, and be ready for loss anyway because shipping is VERY stressful on live fish stock. I feel bad getting mine home in their baggy the half hour from the store.
I was able to do it because of how I cycled and my stock all came from the same store at the same time (they are on a main line, like most fish stores, so if there's one contaminated, they're all going to have it or get it or be stressed from it).

When you open the shipping container, do it in a darkened room. It's been pitch black for them while in transit so whipping the lid and box top off in a bright room is just going to shock them more. Assume no one is dead unless he's been fed on. Sideways and stunned can sometimes recover. Here's a great article on acclimating and should minimize loss.

I obviously researched the heck out of fishkeeping before I got into it again (i'm surprised any of my fish lived when I first had my 20 gallon back in high school, amazing what I was ignorant of) and I still think I know very little, and even with the best knowledge and plans, things will go awry. (As in my ammonia laced source water happening overnight)

 

I was looking to buy from PetSolution.com

They have 14 days live guarantee. If the fish is stressed, can they last 14 days?

I have both Aquasafe and Prime.

Prime smells so bad... I wonder how fish will feel about that odor in the water lol.

By the way, I want to make sure my understanding of the amount of water conditioners I need is correct.

To my calculation, I need about 10 drops of Aquasafe for 5 gallon of water right?
And only 2 drops Prime for 5 gallon?

Can I use both at the same time with reduce amount for both benefits?

 

Prime does stink, doesn't it.
Stressed fish that destress can survive. I suppose the concern with your plan is that your already stressed fish won't really destress, since they'll go straight into a tank with a bunch of other stressed fish.

What are you planning on stocking?

 

Prime does stink, doesn't it.
Stressed fish that destress can survive. I suppose the concern with your plan is that your already stressed fish won't really destress, since they'll go straight into a tank with a bunch of other stressed fish.

What are you planning on stocking?

My new list




I want to get Neon Tetra too since they would look awesome in a school. But I heard they die easily right?


Are all these fish easy to take care of? Do you see a problem putting them in the same tank? I have plenty of covers.
Now it has increased to 7 caves, 2 driftwood. Plus I have some plants on the way.



P.S. My zip code is on there. I don't care lol. Would be nice if someone is close and willing to give me some fish for cheap.

 

Neons need to go into a tank that has been cycled for several months. I'd skip them if I were you.

 

Neons need to go into a tank that has been cycled for several months. I'd skip them if I were you.

Were you talking about Neon Sunburst Moon? Or Neon Tetra?

I read that Neon Tetras are mass produced weak fish. (inbreed etc.) The fish farm used massive medication to keep them from getting sick. So once they leave the fish farm,
They die in mass when reach pet store and home.
Is that correct?

I also read that the other very close type of Tetra, (the one with a complete red strip instead of Neon's half way red strip), are wild caught and won't live long due to they have already lived for most of their live when they were caught.
Is that right?

Just to confirm on what I read.

I think they look awesome in a school. Besides I need something blue. Would be nice to have in my aquarium.

 

First, I'd like to see some statistics on some already cycled tanks. Please answer only if you have completed the cycle.
1. Time to complete your cycle. Weeks
2. Fishless or with fish? Fish
3. tank size? 10 gallons
4. With or without media from established tank? If yes, please list it(them). no, but used bionoodles
5. water treatment chemical? (for example, Aquasafe, Prime) biobooster
6. Filter? hob 250lph
7. temperature? 25C
8. planted? no
9. Substrate? gravel
10. Day(? insert number. Ex: Day 6) to first see nitrite reading? day 5
11. Day(?) to first see nitrate? day 9
12. Day (?) first start to see rapid decrease in ammonia? day 10
13. Day (?) first start to see rapid decrease in nitrite? day 13

 

Those are Cardinals

I also read that the other very close type of Tetra, (the one with a complete red strip instead of Neon's half way red strip), are wild caught and won't live long due to they have already lived for most of their live when they were caught.
Is that right?

Those are Cardinal Tetras and are extremely sensitive to their water parameters. Wild capture is (unfortunantly) sometimes done with cyanide placed upriver or stream from them to stun them then the transport process finished off quite a few and then less than pristine water makes it hard for them to recover, they also have to adjust to new water parameters often drastically different from their native water.

If I put wild caught Cardinal Tetras in my tetra tank, they'd probably die for that reason.

Why not opt for some blue male guppies. I noticed your mixing male and female... do you have a plan for the resulting fry or are they just going to supplement the omnivorous diet of the community?

 

Those are Cardinal Tetras and are extremely sensitive to their water parameters. Wild capture is (unfortunantly) sometimes done with cyanide placed upriver or stream from them to stun them then the transport process finished off quite a few and then less than pristine water makes it hard for them to recover, they also have to adjust to new water parameters often drastically different from their native water.

If I put wild caught Cardinal Tetras in my tetra tank, they'd probably die for that reason.

Why not opt for some blue male guppies. I noticed your mixing male and female... do you have a plan for the resulting fry or are they just going to supplement the omnivorous diet of the community?

The plan is to have fry stay in the community tank. Adults fish will keep their numbers in check. I will have plenty of hiding places, so I hope a few of them will survive and grow up to carry on the generations.
I try to keep the guppy pure, so their offspring will look the same as their parents.

So there is no farm raised Cardinal Tetra? Don't they breed at all once they are in the aquarium?

As for Neon Tetras, are they really hard to keep?

 

Were you talking about Neon Sunburst Moon? Or Neon Tetra?
neon tetra
I read that Neon Tetras are mass produced weak fish. (inbreed etc.) The fish farm used massive medication to keep them from getting sick. So once they leave the fish farm,
They die in mass when reach pet store and home.
Is that correct? the best I can do with this is probably. They do well if they survive the first few weeks.

I also read that the other very close type of Tetra, (the one with a complete red strip instead of Neon's half way red strip), are wild caught and won't live long due to they have already lived for most of their live when they were caught.
Is that right? I'm unsure - as far as I know, those are cardinal tetras and not neons? Or are you talking about a type of neon I'm unfamiliar with?

Just to confirm on what I read.

I think they look awesome in a school. Besides I need something blue. Would be nice to have in my aquarium.

I had a blue guppy. Very pretty. Lost him over the weekend after 8 months.

My neons are beautiful in my tank. They've turned out to be hardy, but I put them in a well-established tank. And I still lost a few at the beginning. They just...disappear.

 

I had a blue guppy. Very pretty. Lost him over the weekend after 8 months.

My neons are beautiful in my tank. They've turned out to be hardy, but I put them in a well-established tank. And I still lost a few at the beginning. They just...disappear.

They can't just disappear for real, can they? There must be some kind of explanation lol. Either eaten, or sucked into the filter.

After I put my remaining 5 RCS into my 10 gallon, I never could count all 5 after the first night. My guess is, either it was dead and others ate its corpse, or it was sucked into the canister filter I temporarily moved there to help the filtration. Although I saw other shrimps walking around searching for food on the intake with no problem.

Which type of guppy was that? I think Green Cobra and Yellow Tale are the most beautiful though...but they are out of stock at PetSolution.