How Does Removing Stock Affect Cycle?

Discussion in 'Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle' started by sassymomma, Apr 15, 2017.

  1. sassymomma

    sassymomma Well Known Member Member

    I have a cycled 38 gallon wintering 4 goldfish

    When they go home in a week or two, should I expect a cycle crash?

    I have plans to turn this tank into a Betta sorority but it will take a couple of months to build up the plants, and scape it in preparation for the girls.

    During this time, it will only house a 2-3 inch bn pleco

    He is used to living with Betta, as he comes out of my 29, at 77-78degrees, and lived previously with my male Betta

    Should I leave him where he is?
    I wonder if I should use this interim period to put in a school of something to distract the girls and hold my cycle ?
     
  2. GlamCrab

    GlamCrab Well Known Member Member

    i wouldnt think it would cause a cycle crash.. as long as the bacteria have an ammonia source the cycle will live on.
     
  3. TexasDomer

    TexasDomer Fishlore Legend Member

    You'll still have a cycle, but a lot of the bacteria will die (since there's now not enough of a bioload to suppor them).
     




  4. _IceFyre_

    _IceFyre_ Well Known Member Member

    Agree with the above^
    Just be sure to add your bettas gradually if possible to build up the bioload gradually.
     
  5. OP
    OP
    sassymomma

    sassymomma Well Known Member Member

    From what I understand the best way to begin a sorority is to take them from the same spawning...I'm fortunate enough to have a store that ocasionally gets spawnings in stock, so I had planned on doing it this way. I was planning on setting them up in the tank, in vases/jars to take their adjustment period.

    I do have a bacterial suppliment, though I plan on replacing that with a fresh bottle of Stability. What about setting up a filter on the other tank, to bring fresh bacteria in when I add the betta? I have an Aquaclear 50 set up on an overstocked 5 gallon, after losing their QT.. the treatment course has run, and no one has shown any signs in a couple of weeks. I also have a betta tank(29g) in my diningroom, but I don't know if one betta ina 29g would support enough bacteria to help things? That tank is cycling, and runs 0ammonia/.25-.50(nitrite)/5-10nitrate

    My tap water runs trace ammonia...so water changes will add some, and I was considering adding some cories or something....I could get those close to the time that I remove the Goldfish.
     
  6. CindiL

    CindiL Fishlore Legend Member

    You could pick up some pure ammonia at ace hardware and keep the cycle going that way by dosing ammonia every 48 hours or so, just not sure if its worth it if its going to be a couple of months before you start the sorority. You could just empty out the tank for now and move the cycled filter to your main tank and keep it there until ready to start the sorority. At that time, move the filter back over to the newly filled tank.
     
  7. OP
    OP
    sassymomma

    sassymomma Well Known Member Member

    I was thinking of getting a sponge filter and setting it up in my main tank to bring over when I add the girls.....so that I add both fresh live bacteria and new fish at the same time?

    The bn pleco in the 38 will keep a little ammonia, combined with the.25 in my tap water..... so I think if I prep a sponge filter in with the Betta tank it should help avoid a crash upon adding....that and some Stability

    He's only 2-3 inches long and will be the only fish for awhile though, so I don't know how much ammonia he will actually produce in a 38 gallon tank lol.

    Maybe I should bring him to the 29, and he and the male Betta can share space while I prep the big tank fishless


    I have my aquaclear 50 on the 5gallons box with the surviving small fish. I will probably never put them with other fish again due to disfigured faces post-illness..... but they are better now. I'm just not sure that I want to risk using media from there, just in case.......

    I had considered a school of something to precede the girls.....but I need to find out what it temperature compatible. My harlequins all died

    I was going to spend the time planting and scaping the 38, whilst I wait for a spawning to arrive in big Als....make sure it's just right for the best chance of success
     
  8. CindiL

    CindiL Fishlore Legend Member

    My rummy nose tetras have done well with my girls as well as my sterbai cories. But because you're new to a sorority, I'd start with the cories and girls at the most and then later you can think about adding a non-aggressive schooling fish.

    I have found personally that as long as you get your girls as juveniles there is rarely if ever any aggression, even with girls from different spawns. As juveniles they have not been long out of their shared tanks and it feels natural to them. I currently have 8 girls and I don't think there is really any one girl who is dominant in this group though I have had some dominant ones in the past. Mostly they just all get along.

    It is key to have lots of plants and/or line of sight breakage for them such as with driftwood, etc.
     
  9. OP
    OP
    sassymomma

    sassymomma Well Known Member Member

    Yes, that has been the common theme in my research too, and is the reason for waiting on the girls - whom I plan to buy when I see a whole tank come in at the same time

    Will I still need to individually qt them if they are all from the same tank?

    I couldn't plant the tank with goldfish in it, so I will need to start that when they go.... I am thinking of using vases to bring plants up to surface, since it's a tall tank, then plants around the vases too for lower cover

    I would like to focus more on rhizome plants, which I have noticed thrive in my water...as opposed to stems which always melt. I can keep swords as well, and am going to put them into various sized containers that I can add miracle grow organic into

    I know that the male loves to swim around his plant in a cup :)


    I have heard that miracle grow can leech ammonia?
     
  10. CindiL

    CindiL Fishlore Legend Member

    No, you shouldn't need to individually quarantine them though I'd recommend giving them at least a round of a parasite treatment like Prazi Pro or General Cure.

    Instead of using miracle grow, I'd just use Flourish.

    I bought a piece of fake driftwood and super glued anubias all over it, it looks nice and gives them lots of cover "if" they want to get away.
     
  11. OP
    OP
    sassymomma

    sassymomma Well Known Member Member

    Flourish root tabs? Or liquid?

    I have Flourish Excel and API leafzone at the moment, and am running low on both. The anubis is doing great with the Leafzone- I see a new leaf almost weekly. I ran out of root tabs a little while ago, and hadn't bought more while I was trying to decide how best to feed the swords. They're just now beginning t suffer and I have to grab something.

    I'll pick up General Cure for when I buy them. I still have enough Tetra Fungus guard for a round on the big tank too, if I have need of it. And I added an Ick treatment to my medicine cabinet too, just in case.

    I'm racking up quite a shopping list lol
    Stability
    General Cure
    Plants
    Wood
    Sponge filter
    Air pump/powerhead

    At least I already have that heater that the male hated XD How dare I put a blue thing in his tank :p

    I think I'll go on the assumption that I'll experience a mini-cycle upon adding, and add in some liquid bacteria, and watch parameters daily for the first couple of weeks
     
  12. AllieSten

    AllieSten Fishlore VIP Member

    I think the sponge filter is a great idea. It will be the perfect source of additional bacteria.
     
  13. CindiL

    CindiL Fishlore Legend Member

    Regular Flourish is perfect for fertilizing, you won't need root tabs except for your sword.
     
  14. OP
    OP
    sassymomma

    sassymomma Well Known Member Member

    Ok...so I have decided to remove the pleco and heater to the male tank, and go fishless until the females get here. His heater is malfunctioning, and his tank dropped to 72. I need to replace it and will borrow the hated blue one for now until I can run to a pet store.

    Question:

    How much pure ammonia would I dose into a 38gallon tank to hold an already healthy cycle? Will I still do water changes? I will keep one filter running, and return the other to my dad along with his fish. The Aqueon Quietflow30 is mine. . I'll run the tank with only plants, and at room temperature until about a week before I am ready to bring the girls home. Then I'll add a sponge filter and bacterial supliment to make up the difference of bioload.

    Is the flow from a Quietflow filter too stong for a female? I know it was too much for the male, but females don't have heavy fins
     
  15. CindiL

    CindiL Fishlore Legend Member

    How many girls will you be adding in at once do you think? I would think 2ppm would be sufficient dosed every couple of days. You'll want to do water changes in that tank when nitrates get super high, like over 100.

    A quietflow will be fine. I actually have two of the quietflow 30's in my 33g sorority. Because of their normal fin length they swim as well as any other fish. I have always kept a piece of filter batting underneath the outflow to keep the outflow calmed down.
     
  16. OP
    OP
    sassymomma

    sassymomma Well Known Member Member

    I'm thinking 7 should be nice

    My son has asked to be allowed to add his shrimp to the sorority tank so I need to look into appropriate breeds. I tried ghosts in with the male and they ate his tail. Maybe Amani, crystal with a java moss hideaway

    Tomorrow I head to the pet store, where I will look for wood and Anubis, and ask about stock. And how often it comes in. I also need to find a replacement heater

    If I can't find ammonia in a store, I will probably buy khuli or cories on my way home from taking the goldfish back- let the tank adjust to a lower load, but remain stocked

    Oh, and general cure
     
  17. CindiL

    CindiL Fishlore Legend Member

    If you had "ghost" shrimps eat his tail, then I guarantee you they weren't ghost shrimp, but were whisker shrimp instead which accidentally get mixed in some times. You can tell them apart usually by the bands on their pincers. Ghost shrimp usually have orange bands. If i remember right when I was sold a whisker shrimp it had blue bands and yes, they are very aggressive. Ghost shrimp would never do that.

    There are Amani, "true" ghosts, cherry etc. Crystal shrimp are sensitive and I wouldn't bother with them. My girls are with lots of cherry shrimp and some Amanos.

    Depending on where you're at, Ace hardware is your best bet for pure ammonia. That or online with Dr. Tim's ammonium.
     
  18. OP
    OP
    sassymomma

    sassymomma Well Known Member Member

    I don't have any Ace, and can't order online...but I have a home hardware out at the edge of town

    Depends partly on hubby, who works shift and has to drive me. I'm in a big city with lots of options and nothing in walking distance lol. Buses are unreliable at best and the kids come home for lunch, so I don't have much time to stray far from home lol

    I'm pretty sure they were whisker shrimp too-they even fought off the goldfish when placed in the goldfish tank while I decided what to do with them...quite the shock the big orange monster got, bitten by his dinner

    I still have a few. I had ghosts before and they were always peaceful
     
  19. OP
    OP
    sassymomma

    sassymomma Well Known Member Member

    Big Als has a tank of girls in :)

    If I can prep my supplies before I take home the goldfish, I can clean up and plant, then buy the girls... looking like next trip to dads is the end of the month, so I have a little over a week

    How many days could I sit empty, if it came down to it? Like if the store was shut on the way back into town and I was waiting for hubby to run me out....
     
  20. CindiL

    CindiL Fishlore Legend Member

    You could put some fish food in there to feed the cycle if you can't get pure ammonia. I'd say as far as empty and not losing the cycle without an ammonia source, a few days. The bacteria will shrink due to starvation but they shouldn't die off or anything.
     




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