How do you guys react to toxic fishkeepers

I'm sure you know the type. Most fishkeepers I've met online and in person are genial, polite, and helpful people, but there's a few exceptionally opinionated people I've ran into. There's the one extreme of doing things like chucking goldfish in bowls, and there's the other extreme of calling anyone who disagrees with them fish abusers. For example, I went down a rabbit hole on a certain tumblr blog I won't name, and it was basically them posting callouts about people in the hobby. Was viciously against divided betta tanks, sororities, and basically doing anything they didn't like. (I'm kinda neutral on sororities since I know many advanced fishkeepers have successfully maintained them)

Basically the whole blog was just extremely self-righteous and preachy sounding, and it seemed that anyone who ever so slightly disagreed with them was automatically a target, no matter how experienced they were. They seemed to act like they were some sort of ultimate authority on fishkeeping while backing up absolutely nothing they were saying. Anyway, I just mean to ask, how do you guys deal with those people? I mean, of course there's basic standards, but when you get into the nitty gritty of people attacking others for keeping fish ever so slightly differently it just gets really annoying. Thoughts?

 

I just tell them to go away and go about my day. This hobby is where I find my zen. Ain't got time for those folks at all.

 

Yep. One side of the spectrum you have oscars in five gallon tanks, other side you have PETA. Luckily I have noticed very little people like that.

 

I know what you mean, I have not experienced any people like that in the fish keeping hobby. But I have in other interests in life, music is probably the worst. I used to be a really good guitar player back in the day and I could sing really well. I was in and out of a few bands and music clubs and that is where I found the most egotistical idiots the world can produce. It is not like any of use where going somewhere at playing music, just hanging out an playing. But some of these idiots liked to get drunk and act like every woman in the place was their personal groupies. It was disgusting at times.

 

Feed them a guppy. Guppies solve everything. If that doesn't solve the issue then feed them to the guppy

 

Facts. Arm yourself with facts. You can’t argue facts with feelings without looking like a fool.

 

I often end up ignoring a lot of those people since it’s not worth the headache of the debate. And in all honesty the person you described does not want to view things any other way. You always have people who are very opinionated whether it’s personal experiences or just regurgitating what they read somewhere else. I think in this hobby it’s hard because on one hand the goal is to recreate nature to promote a happy healthy life for our fish. But on the other end of that we have many fish that are farm raised and so far removed from the wild that it makes you question how close you need to emulate their native water. Or can this fish be kept in a school or solo? How large of a school is the minimum? Etc

Generally people on here pretty nice and not to belittling. I’ve surfed other places that aren’t the same.I think the best way to grow the hobby is to be welcoming and patient. I remember being a teen and posting on here and thinking I knew it all when I was mixing African cichlids with community fish in a 20gallon high lol. I can laugh about it now because I learned the hard way. And I got great advice along the way.

But again, ignore those people and follow those who you either agree with or at a minimum remain objective to their own opinions.

 

Facts. Arm yourself with facts. You can’t argue facts with feelings without looking like a fool.

I've found that fools rarely recognize themselves, even with a mirror.

 

Usually I go to sarcasm in these situations. It usually only makes me mad if they are jumping all over someone ( a new fish keeper) without knowing anything about the situation yet. Makes me so mad. Otherwise people being hoity toity make me laugh most times.

 

I see fish keeping as covering a big range of people.
I think there is room in the hobby for all kinds of people. I try and let people do their own thing. As long as it’s not risking the authorities changing the rules that I have to follow in regards to animal welfare let people have a bit of slack.
My local club tries to be inclusive.

 

When they ignore reality and replace it with they own stupidity, you can't win anything. I just ignore them, or block if nothing else helps.

 

Hum. I wonder how many people have me blocked. Think 10? or 20 ?

When they ignore reality and replace it with they own stupidity, you can't win anything. I just ignore them, or block if nothing else helps.

 

I left Facebook for that very reason so many people think they know everything about aquarium keeping and you know nothing what I like about this group is y'all don't put anyone down for being a noob you try to help and let them understand the hobby keep up the good work all my fishkeeping friends

 

I would not worry about it, there are to many good fish forums out there to waste time with them.

 

On the extreme of bad fishcare, I just try to get them to think about the well-being of their fish instead of their own pride. It’s just sad these people are so stubborn in their ways they simply don’t bother to do any proper research or even put in the effort to give the highest quality of life to their animals.

Then there’s the other extreme. Sometimes, their points have meaning and are respectable, but at the end of the day it draws negative energy to the hobby. It’s normal to make mistakes in this hobby, and yes, those mistakes do put the fish in danger. But what’s done is done and the focus should always be bettering our fishcare and helping others do the same. Getting angry at people for their mistakes won’t help the fish involved and it distracts from the wellbeing of the fish.

 

Been there, done that.

Cody does make a good point in that sometimes it's not worth the debate. I'm going to put in a personal experience to show why I say this.

I was forced into the seafood department at work which includes a live lobster tank. When the old tanks chilling unit went, instead of replacing the chiller, the so called lobster experts decided to replace the entire tank. Not only was it a smaller tank, but then they threw in a bottle of bacteria in the tank and deemed it ready to go. I tried to say no, but another guy in the department, who has never had a fish tank, publicly basically called me a "insert word that would be deleted in this forum", said I could not know what I was talking about since I only had fresh water tanks and ridiculed me relentlessly, after all, what could I know after 50 years of fish keeping that the so called lobster experts didn't. Wasn't a pretty picture, he was relentless in his ridicule.

Do I need to say the tank became a lobster death trap. Broke my heart. I know they were there to be sold to be killed and eaten, but that doesn't mean I didn't want them to at least be healthy until then. Got to the point it sat empty for 2 months, the lose of the lobsters got too expensive.

Meanwhile in those empty two months, this may shock you , the tank cycled. I took readings, went to the department lead (also fish stupid), showed her the readings and said it was time to get lobsters and not to get as many. I even brought in my own personal tank care things to get the tank nice and clean. Guess what? Not a one died. Even have the last 4 who have been there over a month and are still healthy.

So yea, been through the fish stupid people who seem to think they know what they are talking about through media, or so called expert advice. And through my 50 years or so journey through the fish world, I'm sometimes that stupid person. It's a very complex thing, keeping fish. I sure know that I will never claim to know it all, but at least I'm willing to admit that.

 

I ignore them all.

My general rule of thumb is do what makes you happy. Obviously be smart about it and do research. There are a lot of grey areas in fishkeeping, but some like to make it seem everything is black and white. I've especially seen this on a lot of reep keeping groups, so I try avoiding them.

 

I ignore them all.

My general rule of thumb is do what makes you happy. Obviously be smart about it and do research. There are a lot of grey areas in fishkeeping, but some like to make it seem everything is black and white. I've especially seen this on a lot of reep keeping groups, so I try avoiding them.

This. If they try to make the hobby a job, time to move on.

But OP, you said it was a blog, that's literally an online diary & an Op ed pretty much. That's generally how they are run. It's the personality of the writer - you are reading their digital diary.

You cannot fight a belief system because it's an attack on personality. Just move on and don't worry about it.

 

I think one common theme I everyone’s responses is that there is no absolutes in this hobby. Because even the science can fail out at times. We have opinions, as we should. And if someone views their opinion as an absolute statement, good for them. But don’t let them take you down in the process!

 

There are snobs in every hobby. In addition to fish, I also drive a Jeep and am learning the violin:
Jeepers are the worst snobs after reef keepers. If you don't have X brand of lift and Y brand of tires and chromoly sleeve axles and blah blah blah lockers well you are less than nothing and you drive a mall crawler. But there we are on the trails right next to them.
In violin, I play a $200 backstock instrument from a reputable maker that had a blemish in the finish that no one would see if they didn't know it was there. It's not a $200 fiddle, really. I took it to our local luthier, who also happens to take care of the instruments in the Smithsonian, who handed it back to me and in so many words told me it wasn't worth his time to even look at it. Yet here I am two years later progressing nicely and being complimented by my teacher on the fine tone and projection of my instrument.

Point is people can just be mean because it makes them feel better about themselves to make you feel like less than they are. Narcissism is the purest form of crazy.

Also Tumblr, is a place that people only seem to go to troll others. Ick. Not a place I would ever go for actual information.

 

End of the day what I remember. Everyone has different opinions and experiences, and that's perfectly fine! There's also many widely accepted facts.

Best thing to do is keep in mind you don't always have to agree, that's perfectly fine! That's the beauty of this amazing hobby. There is always so much to learn and discuss. So much unknown that we really can only guess based on opinions and sometimes the loudest opinion is the one that people believe. That's fine.

I have been keeping fish for over 20 years now, worked at a LFS, etc. I have had everything from goldfish/bettas to seahorses. I can promise you I do not always agree with others. Even others with 20+ years experience, we don't always agree. That's perfectly fine. I still learn every day about this amazing hobby.

What I do is I listen to their response, research if I'm unsure for anything scientific behind it. If I realize its opinion based I look into it a bit more honestly. Like say its betta related. I may ask some of my other well known betta breeding friends what their thoughts are. End of the day I don't think opinions can really be wrong unless its completely negating a known scientific fact. So if you see something you don't agree with, just move on. Fighting tooth and nail to change someone's opinion isn't worth your time.

Sorry for the babbling, hopefully that helps!

 

I'm sure you know the type. Most fishkeepers I've met online and in person are genial, polite, and helpful people, but there's a few exceptionally opinionated people I've ran into. There's the one extreme of doing things like chucking goldfish in bowls, and there's the other extreme of calling anyone who disagrees with them fish abusers. For example, I went down a rabbit hole on a certain tumblr blog I won't name, and it was basically them posting callouts about people in the hobby. Was viciously against divided betta tanks, sororities, and basically doing anything they didn't like. (I'm kinda neutral on sororities since I know many advanced fishkeepers have successfully maintained them)

Basically the whole blog was just extremely self-righteous and preachy sounding, and it seemed that anyone who ever so slightly disagreed with them was automatically a target, no matter how experienced they were. They seemed to act like they were some sort of ultimate authority on fishkeeping while backing up absolutely nothing they were saying. Anyway, I just mean to ask, how do you guys deal with those people? I mean, of course there's basic standards, but when you get into the nitty gritty of people attacking others for keeping fish ever so slightly differently it just gets really annoying. Thoughts?

Only a fool picks a debate with a fool .

There are some things in life you can control. There are some things in life you can have an influence over. And there are some things you can neither control or influence. I like to think that I am not a fool and that I spend my time in those areas of my life that I have control or influence over. I'm not perfect. A little trite. It's an old wound an one I find myself apologising for often

AiYn'U

 

Smack them with a dirty filter cartridge Jk I'd just block them, they aren't worth any ones time here!

 

To quote MomeWrath (wouldn't let me do a quote from post),

Point is people can just be mean because it makes them feel better about themselves to make you feel like less than they are. Narcissism is the purest form of crazy.

This is all too true and let's face it folks, we are all guilty of it because of the simple fact, we are all human. I do try to be better than that, I don't always succeed, but at least I do try, and meanwhile, I'll have to live with the times I didn't succeed and try to learn from it.

And yea, I've spent more years than I care to count in the show animal area. I learned a lot from my journey, but I also learned that a ribbon or trophy is pretty on the wall, but in the end it all comes down to if you actually love the animal or that trophy. I've decided to love the animal first and forget about the trophy, I have boxes of them just sitting in the attic. This change of attitude is how I ended up with my far less than perfect chosen breed of dog, and you know what, he's wonderful and I'm far more at peace with myself.

 

people who are rude should be blocked or taught manners

 

Personally-
I am an animal empath. I am intensely in touch with my emotions and I care very deeply about all animals.

I name my fish, I care for my fish, I give my heart out to them. I am undeniably connected to them in a way most other people struggle to understand.

It bothers me on a level that I can't adequately put into words when people tell me I'm wrong, put me down, and constantly fight against everything I say and do here.

Trust me, of all people- I am the one who is insanely intent on making sure that my fish are the healthiest they can be. When they get sick, or are improperly cared for, it causes my anxiety to flair up. I panic, I race around, doing everything possible in that moment to ensure their safety and survival.

It angers me especially when people who are much younger than me, or far more inexperienced than me, tell me off with incorrect information.

I did the research, I consulted others, I have a strong concept of what I'm doing- Don't strip me of my efforts. Or attempt to.

It's debilitating when they choose to blow off my personal experience as wrong. I lived it, I breathed it, I thought through it and worked hard during that time. If you haven't done that, you don't have that experience, how can you tell me otherwise?

I made it through successfully, I'm here now aren't I? I didn't give up and leave it all behind did I?

Bottom Line - Don't make people feel like nothing they say and do is right. Don't make people's personal experiences seem worthless. Don't try to convince someone otherwise when they know what they're doing.

It's rude and disrespectful, period.

 

Personally-
I am an animal empath. I am intensely in touch with my emotions and I care very deeply about all animals.

I name my fish, I care for my fish, I give my heart out to them. I am undeniably connected to them in a way most other people struggle to understand.

It bothers me on a level that I can't adequately put into words when people tell me I'm wrong, put me down, and constantly fight against everything I say and do here.

Trust me, of all people- I am the one who is insanely intent on making sure that my fish are the healthiest they can be. When they get sick, or are improperly cared for, it causes my anxiety to flair up. I panic, I race around, doing everything possible in that moment to ensure their safety and survival.

It angers me especially when people who are much younger than me, or far more inexperienced than me, tell me off with incorrect information.

I did the research, I consulted others, I have a strong concept of what I'm doing- Don't strip me of my efforts. Or attempt to.

It's debilitating when they choose to blow off my personal experience as wrong. I lived it, I breathed it, I thought through it and worked hard during that time. If you haven't done that, you don't have that experience, how can you tell me otherwise?

I made it through successfully, I'm here now aren't I? I didn't give up and leave it all behind did I?

Bottom Line - Don't make people feel like nothing they say and do is right. Don't make people's personal experiences seem worthless. Don't try to convince someone otherwise when they know what they're doing.

It's rude and disrespectful, period.

Not just this forum but on almost all this is a problem. People think the fact they read somewhere is the only correct answer. Personal experience beats internet articles any day. I know I do plenty of stuff I'd get lectured about on here. But it works.

 

Not just this forum but on almost all this is a problem. People think the fact they read somewhere is the only correct answer. Personal experience beats internet articles any day. I know I do plenty of stuff I'd get lectured about on here. But it works.

Exactly; other forums, employees at pet stores, and even my other, less-experienced fishkeeper friends often tell me, "Well- this article I read says..."

I'm doing what I'm doing, and my fish are happy and healthy. Isn't that what matters? That they are in optimal shape and condition physically?
If they aren't dying, ill, and improperly cared for, then I don't see the problem.

A happy, healthy, and thriving fish is a happy, healthy, thriving fish. That's the straight-out truth.

 

Exactly; other forums, employees at pet stores, and even my other, less-experienced fishkeeper friends often tell me, "Well- this article I read says..."

I'm doing what I'm doing, and my fish are happy and healthy. Isn't that what matters? That they are in optimal shape and condition physically?
If they aren't dying, ill, and improperly cared for, then I don't see the problem.

A happy, healthy, and thriving fish is a happy, healthy, thriving fish. That's the straight-out truth.

If you only swim in one direction, you only find one answer.
That's all I got....

 

I’ve seen some people get criticized and chased off from forums because they were ignorant or stubborn or both. If someone is being stubborn/ignorant, in any situation, it’s never a good idea to be hostile or forceful towards them, because you’ll never prove your point and the other party won’t learn anything.

If you push over a sapling, it’ll just rebound and smack you. However, if you train a sapling, you can encourage it grow in a different way.

I think the fact someone is part of a forum such as this shows a willingness to learn, even if that someone is stubborn at first.

 

A spray bottle. I use it on my cats to keep them out of the curtains. The types you mentioned have about the same capacity as a cat so it should translate fine.

 

Let the toxic aquarist sit alone in their own aquarium. They're so toxic, eventually they'll just poison themselves sitting in their own toxicity.

 

I think it’s to be expected. It’s that cross over from being passionate and knowledge about a topic and wanting to help people, to becoming a radical and opinionated on a topic. I think we see this behaviour in all walks of life and areas of knowledge. It’s annoying because although there are some subjects and science in the hobby which are undeniable, we should accept all tanks are miniature environments and are subtly different. What works in my tank for me, may not have the same results in everyone’s else’s tank because of the little differences between tanks. So we have to be open minded to varying opinions and advice. Mistakes! We try our best, but we learn best in this hobby by sometimes being wrong. I think the part I like the best about this forum, more than trying to help people, is hearing what others are doing that works and learning from that.

 

I think it’s to be expected. It’s that cross over from being passionate and knowledge about a topic and wanting to help people, to becoming a radical and opinionated on a topic. I think we see this behaviour in all walks of life and areas of knowledge. It’s annoying because although there are some subjects and science in the hobby which are undeniable, we should accept all tanks are miniature environments and are subtly different. What works in my tank for me, may not have the same results in everyone’s else’s tank because of the little differences between tanks. So we have to be open minded to varying opinions and advice. Mistakes! We try our best, but we learn best in this hobby by sometimes being wrong. I think the part I like the best about this forum, more than trying to help people, is hearing what others are doing that works and learning from that.

I agree with this entirely. It's bound to occur; whether we want it to or not. People have their opinions, they have their resources, and they are entitled to that.

That is one of the most wonderful things about fishkeeping in my opinion. Each tank is beautifully and wonderfully different, just like each keeper themself. Each tank will develop and grow in it's own way, just as each of us will. Everyone has different views and opinions, and everyone has different experiences.

The fish themselves vary as well, they may be the same species, but each one is so unique in its own way! They eat differently, grow differently, and interact differently. No two fish will ever be the same! Same species or not, they are all different.

Everyone learns at their own rate, and some people will find their way through trial and error. In my opinion, that's one of the most educational processes someone can use! To hypothesize, try, see the results, and learn from that is such an invigorating and enthralling experience. How are we meant to learn if we can't try to do things for ourselves?

Some people need to realize this.

 

that sounds terrible. glad i havent met anyone like that. lucky for me i found this great community first

 

I would do 3 things: 1. Offer a link to a reputable source supporting my point of view. 2. Ask them for a link to a place that supports their point of view. 3. If they remain argumentative or don't have any data, ignore them. Block if you can so you don't have to worry about seeing their posts again.

 

People are mean on the internet!? <shocked face> Simple and easy solution: Ignore them, and go on with your day.

It's not for nuthin' that I call it the "neenernet."

Neener neener.

 

Personal experience beats internet articles any day.

I do agree with this but to some extent articles can best personal experience.

Whos to say that the person writing the article has had experience with that certain fish for 10+ years? Just because they write an article does it automatically discredit them?

 

I do agree with this but to some extent articles can best personal experience.

Whos to say that the person writing the article has had experience with that certain fish for 10+ years? Just because they write an article does it automatically discredit them?

No, that's not what I meant. There's plenty of good articles out there. My issue is with the people who'll tell you something is impossible because it goes agaisnt what they read. I'm sure we've all heard "you can never do XYZ" and thought "well the fact I've been doing it that way for years says otherwise".

 

No, that's not what I meant. There's plenty of good articles out there. My issue is with the people who'll tell you something is impossible because it goes agaisnt what they read. I'm sure we've all heard "you can never do XYZ" and thought "well the fact I've been doing it that way for years says otherwise".

I have seen people right here on this website argue that they have used what amounts to a perpetual motion machine ( a circulating siphon, in this case) as a pump.

Personal experience is one thing. Defying the laws of physics is quite another. I will always land on the side of chemistry, biology, and physics.