How Can I Help Striped Raphael Catfish To Survive?

Mcasella, you may well be right! Thank you!

I just spent another half an hour in a room with Mr Raphael (it's probably bad I have a weekend lol, as I seem to check his every move today)
He seems to be swimming more today (compared to yesterday with accidentally lowered temp), but it seems for me he still is trying to scratch a left side of his body or kind of "shake" something off it and he keeps "standing" and floating upright (but not gasping for air at the top, just hanging out vertically close to his house) - interestingly, the same side he has difficulties breathing with.

I think I might just need to leave him alone until an evening water change

Do you think his swimming pattern now might be a sign of ich still going in his body OR there might be other parasites / something else bothering him as well?
Thank you very much again!

 

The shake is a sign of ich or irritation - if he is trying to rub his gills there may be something inside or on them irritating him.
His swimming pattern when he is flashing looks like just about every ich infected fish I have seen.

I would let him hang tight until the water change, I know how worrying fish can be.

 

The shake is a sign of ich or irritation - if he is trying to rub his gills there may be something inside or on them irritating him.
His swimming pattern when he is flashing looks like just about every ich infected fish I have seen.

I would let him hang tight until the water change, I know how worrying fish can be.

Mcasella, thanks a lot for your patience, you are truly the best!
I should really stop peeking into his room every 20 minutes as whatever he seems to be doing makes me think something is wrong lol

 

Mcasella, thanks a lot for your patience, you are truly the best!
I should really stop peeking into his room every 20 minutes as whatever he seems to be doing makes me think something is wrong lol

He looks okay, it is weird, I agree, when catfish stagnantly swim like that, specially in a corner so it looks like something is wrong. But he is fine.

 

He looks okay, it is weird, I agree, when catfish stagnantly swim like that, specially in a corner so it looks like something is wrong. But he is fine.

Mcasella, thank you, that sounds very promising!

Jan 6, 6pm: I did a water change yesterday a little earlier than I initially planned and it calmed Mr Raphael a little bit (before that he kept this stagnant swim in the corner, after that he went to relax next to his house)

Jan 7, 11am: Mr Raphael keeps freaking me out lol I feel like I'll really get some grey hair looking at every single thing he does
I spotted him close to the heater (!) today - it looks like he likely found a warm and a very oxygen-rich tight spot in the tank (it's right above the bubble maker) - I hope he doesn't get burns there (he seems to be leaning to the upper part of the heater that is not getting hot).
I knocked at the glass and he moved down closer to his bubbles JacuzzI

Anyway, apart from behavioral things (not sure how concerned should I be about Mr R exploring upper layers of the tank and hanging out next to the heater), he seems to be looking somewhat better. He's actively producing slime coat. My only small concern is about a little "cloudiness" in his eyes this morning, but I wonder if these are just really slime coat "pieces" covering eyes...

Based on my treatment course, today I am supposed to either stop ich treatment with API Super Ick Cure or give another half-dose after the WC.
As I have Paraguard now (and Paraguard seems to have malachite green as one of the main ingredients in it), do you think I should try dosing Paraguard instead of Super Ick Cure, just in case his eye cloudiness and irritation/redness can be caused by something minor / secondary, and Paraguard (at least as advertised) can take care of those? Or do you think I should stick to API Super Ick Cure and dose it again?
Apologies if that question sounds dumb - just trying to do my best for Mr R

Thanks a lot!

Mr R hanging out near the heater

Looks like Mr R cleaning his tail in Jacuzzi

Mr R exploring a filter and freaks out when I move the tank lid

 

If he still has ick you will have to dose again (I know a pain). Do you have a still if what his eyes look like?

If he still has ick you will have to dose again (I know a pain). Do you have a still if what his eyes look like?

 

If he still has ick you will have to dose again (I know a pain). Do you have a still if what his eyes look like?

I think that's the best one I spotted today - not sure if he got more ick spots overnight :-( or if this is really slime coat...
(also added a still-shot from the video + the most recent close-up)

Thank you!

Jan 7, 9pm: Okay, Mr Raphael seems to be at his worst since the onset of this whole thing
I don't see any ick spots at this point, but he is gasping for air all day, breathing quite heavily and trying to get to the top of the tank all time (something I never really seen before), and in between he either flashes or lies somewhere breathing heavily.
I've been trying to find information on what it can be this time and from what I can understand, this time it looks like flukes (not sure though if we are talking about gill flukes or skin flukes...) ???

This is what I found on one of the websites ():

(...)
Behavior
Fish will appear lethargic, and swimming will become intermittent as the fish will tire very easily. Breathing at the surface, or just stationary "hanging" at the surface will be observed, as the fish try's to obtain sufficient oxygen when the gills are badly infested.
Fins.
Fins can become clamped and/or ragged . Often small spots of blood may be observed at the base of the fins.

I also found a topic about gill flukes here on FishLore - Gill Flukes...
Some people also mentioned "cloudy eyes" - "(...) (flukes) will very often cause cloudy eyes as the primary symptom"

Anyways, after a WC I decided to go with half dose of Paraguard today instead of API Super Ick Cure - Mr R is lying in the corner of the tank all evening. I didn't see him eating anything either :-(

I am not sure what to do now as things seemed to progress very fast today :-(


Mcasella, do you think I should stay with Paraguard for now or do you think it's already time to use Praziquantel?
(Unfortunately, I don't have PraziPro, but I have API General Cure which is Metro + Prazi... Do you think I should use those ASAP or stick to Paraguard for now?)

I also was thinking about Paraguard dip (I even prepared a sterilite for it), but Mr R was far from enthusiastic about it and I didn't want to stress him more...

Many thanks in advance!

 

I would go ahead with the praziquantel, it is more serious (I'm not really seeing any ich spots on him- however you sometimes have to go with the more dire issue to make sure the fish can survive until everything can be taken care of).
Paraguard is more of a preventative than real treatment (it helps, but like I stated preventative).

 

I would go ahead with the praziquantel, it is more serious (I'm not really seeing any ich spots on him- however you sometimes have to go with the more dire issue to make sure the fish can survive until everything can be taken care of).
Paraguard is more of a preventative than real treatment (it helps, but like I stated preventative).

Thank you so much! Do you think I should do an emergency partial wc (I added Paraguard a few hours ago) or do you think I can dump API General Cure to the tank as is? (not sure how it will interact with Paraguard if there's any interaction at all...)
And General Cure powder - it says just put it into a tank - should I try to dissolve it in a cup/glass first using a water from the tank?

Thanks again!

 

I think it would be safe to do a partial water change (no more than 40%) to make sure there isn't any weird mixing going on - the powder will dissolve as it sinks but you can mix it beforehand dumping, make sure whatever cup or mixing thing you use is something you aren't attached to in case it stains (it may turn water green).

 

Mcasella, thank you very much!
Went ahead and did a ~40% wc (~5 gal), dissolved powder from a full packet (it says it is for 10 gal) and roughly 1/3 of another packet in a cup, then dumped it into the tank.
For an hour or so I am leaving Aqueon filter off (just in case it sucks large particles that have not dissolved yet), but the bubble maker is on.
I checked on Mr R half an hour later and he was at his new spot near the heater, so at least he's moving inside.

Hopefully this was caught on time (and I am not mistaken in what I see) and metro+prazI would do the job and make it easier for Mr R to pull through!

Many-many thanks again to you for giving me a list of what I should purchase! I wish I purchased PraziPro too (I ordered it now as well), but I'm glad I at least had General Cure on hand following your advice! Fingers crossed this will help!

 

It is good that have a range of meds just for this reason, if something happens you are prepared for it (but making sure the medicines are viable by not being out of date is a big thing too, so you'll have to check the date on meds to keep them useful).
It should not hurt your filter (the powder should break apart easily and dissolve fast), but good idea. Hopefully it fixes his illness.

 

It is good that have a range of meds just for this reason, if something happens you are prepared for it (but making sure the medicines are viable by not being out of date is a big thing too, so you'll have to check the date on meds to keep them useful).
It should not hurt your filter (the powder should break apart easily and dissolve fast), but good idea. Hopefully it fixes his illness.

Mcasella, thank you very much!
I checked on Mr R in the morning and it looks like he spent a lot of time on the top of the heater - I moved its suction cup a little lower and turned the heater at a slight angle to the wall so that he can squeeze between the wall and the plastic top part of the heater that doesn't get too hot. He seems to have liked this spot (that's how he spent all morning in the picture), though I don't know if that's a good thing or not. At least he was alive and breathing.

I ordered PraziPro just in case as well, in case I need a more prolonged treatment just with Praziquantel and some Furan 2 (though I am not sure he has anything bacterial at this point, but with at least 2-3 days turnaround time for orders I figured I'd better have it on hand)

Will see how Mr Raphael behaves in the evening - I guess I will still have to make at least a small water change with Prime (as the tank is not cycled) - 1) do you think I'll need to "top up" General Cure as well? (e.g. change 2-3 gallons, dose General Cure for 3 gallons) - or will it be more harmful?
Should I be prepared for anything specific, especially with regards to his cloudiness in eyes and fatigue/not willingness to eat? Should I later try dropping half a pellet to the tank in case he suddenly decides to eat after metro+prazI treatment?

Thanks so much!

 

If your parameter readings for ammonia and nitrite are below 1ppm, you can just dose prime, that way you don't have to top up (but can follow the med instructions).

 

If your parameter readings for ammonia and nitrite are below 1ppm, you can just dose prime, that way you don't have to top up (but can follow the med instructions).

Thanks a lot, that's a great idea! I have not seen readings more than 0.5ppm lately and with a thorough gravel vac I did yesterday before applying General Cure I think the tank can survive a day without a change just with Prime.
I very much hope he gets better and starts eating something soon!

Jan 8, 8pm: I guess no news is better than bad news - Mr R spent pretty much all day hanging near the heater directly in the bubble-maker air stream and closer to the evening he moved down and placed himself next to the decoration. He looks quite tired and his eyes are still quite cloudy.
I am trying to lower the light as much as I can not to irritate him, thus a dark picture...
HI breathes "normally" (well, quite slowly, but with both sides visibly working) and it doesn't seem like he's gasping for air lately.
I was told that he had several short episodes of flashing today - I very much hope he was trying to get rid of dying parasites.

I tried putting a half of his regular catfish pill and I tried mixing the other one with Garlic Guard and some API General Cure (I read Metronidazole can be much better absorbed through food), but I haven't seen him touching food yet :-(

I hope he's fighting now and saving his energy, not just losing it...

I will see how he is doing closer to 11pm and decide if I just add another 1.3ml of prime or do a very little water change / gravel vac to suck degrading food from the gravel (not more than 1gal or so) and add Prime and maybe a little bit of General Cure to "top up".

 

Jan 8, 8pm: I guess no news is better than bad news - Mr R spent pretty much all day hanging near the heater directly in the bubble-maker air stream and closer to the evening he moved down and placed himself next to the decoration. He looks quite tired and his eyes are still quite cloudy.
I am trying to lower the light as much as I can not to irritate him, thus a dark picture...
HI breathes "normally" (well, quite slowly, but with both sides visibly working) and it doesn't seem like he's gasping for air lately.
I was told that he had several short episodes of flashing today - I very much hope he was trying to get rid of dying parasites.

I tried putting a half of his regular catfish pill and I tried mixing the other one with Garlic Guard and some API General Cure (I read Metronidazole can be much better absorbed through food), but I haven't seen him touching food yet :-(

I hope he's fighting now and saving his energy, not just losing it...

I will see how he is doing closer to 11pm and decide if I just add another 1.3ml of prime or do a very little water change / gravel vac to suck degrading food from the gravel (not more than 1gal or so) and add Prime and maybe a little bit of General Cure to "top up".

If you have a turkey baster you can suck the uneaten food up to prevent ammonia from building. (They are cheap so you can replace the one you use with a new one fairly easy and just keep the old one for a useful fish tool.)
Flashing might be irritation in general or it could be him being irritated by dying parasites and trying to shake them, I would keep the lights dI'm as you can to keep him calmer, since he is a nocturnal - he should have still moments, these are his energy conservation.

 

If you have a turkey baster you can suck the uneaten food up to prevent ammonia from building. (They are cheap so you can replace the one you use with a new one fairly easy and just keep the old one for a useful fish tool.)

That's a great idea - I doubt I have one, but I can pick one up tomorrow in Walmart or anywhere else - thank you!
I'll turn off all lights in my son's room too

Jan 9, 9pm: No big news here. Mr Raphael spent most of the daytime either in the corner of the tank with his tail in the bubbles or next to the heater.
My son told me he didn't see him flashing hard in the afternoon and he did change his position around the tank a few times.
I don't see any ich spots on him, he's breathing with both sides and I haven't seen him frantically gasping for air like a few days ago. I can't ask him, unfortunately, but I hope he's recovering and just feels exhausted, but better, thus not flashing or doing crazy things

He's bothered with his eyes though, it's clear he sees something is in his way of vision and he tries to gently scratch it off his eyes :-( (not crazily flashing on the gravel, but more like gently scratch on the filter or heater). He still has some redness at the bases of his fins...

I tried to drop 2 different types of catfish pellets (from Tetra - his usual ones, and from Hikari), but he doesn't seem to be interested in them, at least openly . He went to his house shortly after I took these pictures, probably hiding from the light on the tank.

Later this evening I am likely doing a huge water change (probably 50% or so) with a thorough gravel vac and put another (second) dose of API General Cure, as per label instructions. I hope the treatment helps...

P.S. And my wife picked a turkey baster from the store, looks like a great tool! Mcasella, thanks again for the advice!

Jan 10, 10pm: I am cautiously optimistic, but it was the fourth day since I started metro+prazI combination (API General Cure) and it looks like it is actually working (he got 2 doses already, on day 1 and day 3). Mr R's eyes cleared up yesterday pretty much overnight - there is no such cloudy foam on them anymore - and he was evidently very happy! He was swimming all around the tank breathing normally late evening after my huge water change on Day 3 before the second dose and almost don't see any redness at the base of his fins now...

Today in the morning I saw him next to the bubble maker again "washing" his tail in the bubbles. Later my wife spotted him next to the heater, like 4-5 days ago. I am a little concerned he was again using only one side to breathe :-( (he has been breathing normally for a while after his eyes cleared up), but I guess he might need time to heal it properly.

Mcasella, I read on API General Cure box that it should be administered only twice on Day 1 and Day 3 and then a water change on Day 5 - it says nothing about continuing the treatment past 2 doses.
If I go to Metroplex description on Seachem website, it says "Repeat this dose every 48 hours for up to 3 weeks or until symptoms disappear."
I still don't have Metroplex (in shipping) on its own, so I wonder if I should administer the third dose of General Cure tonight after a huge water change? On one hand, it seems to be helping at least with some of the symptoms (notably eyes). On the other hand, I don't want it to be just a short-term band-aid and cause whatever is bothering him to adapt and become resistant to these components, and I wonder if the treatment may be becoming less efficient over days.
So far I see more arguments in favor of giving him the third dose, but was wondering if you think it's a good idea or if I should try anything else?

Thank you very much for your help!

 

If you do another dose I believe you would need to do a full dose to make sure the entire cycle of it is kept up.
Until you have another med I would stick with what is working.

 

If you do another dose I believe you would need to do a full dose to make sure the entire cycle of it is kept up.
Until you have another med I would stick with what is working.

Mcasella, thank you very much, yes, I meant doing a large WC tonight and adding another package + ~1/3 of the other package of API General Cure (for 13 gal) as a third dose.
I just wasn't sure if it was save to administer the third dose of praziquantel over 5 days as it was likely safe to do so with metronidazole, and API General Cure contains both...

Seachem Metroplex (metronidazole separately) should arrive tomorrow along with Focus, just in case.
Thanks to your great advice I think I have a lot of various meds on hand now (including kanaplex/sulfaplex, I read a lot that it was usually the next line if metronidazole alone wouldn't work too well), so the question will more be of what is appropriate and required
Thank you!

 

You're welcome, hopefully this experience has given you a better handle on fish diseases.

 

Jan 12, 9pm: Just a brief update - Mr. R seems to be doing much better in terms of symptoms he had before - I tried summarizing his appearance before and after this treatment in the pictures below. I see that after 2 General Cure doses (metronidazole + praziquantel) some symptoms that had me very worried either disappeared or became much less pronounced.
1) He does not have any redness at bases of his fins
2) His eyes are pretty much cleared
3) He behaves very actively now, especially at night

I administered General Cure 3 times so far: on Jan 7, Jan 9 and Jan 11 (third dose, even though instructions say 2 doses represent the full course). The biggest improvement happened around Jan 10 - Jan 11 (probably when full 2 doses worked).

I didn't really like how he reacted on the third dose - very shortly after it he started acting nervously and I immediately started googling if it was possible to overdose on metro or prazI (I didn't find any hard proof that it was possible, but I definitely found some reports of very bad results from this combination). One thing people noted was about prazI potentially reducing oxygen contents, so I quickly added one more stone to the tank and honestly was ready to put charcoal and/or perform an emergency wc if he keeps being distressed. I didn't need either in the end.

Today, Jan 13: It will be 48 hours since my third dose of General Cure and I am thinking of what to do next. I'd really love to call it a day and consider Mr R fully recovered by now, but from time to time he still does notable flashing (but much-much less than he did a week ago, probably 10 times less - maybe you'd spot 1 or 2 obvious episodes over a day). I don't want to give another dose of General Cure as this combination seems to be very strong (and that was great!), but I also don't want to leave him "undertreated" so that whatever he might've been having resurrected and attacked him with a new full force, so to say.
I don't see him eating in an obvious way and when I do gravels I remove parts of his catfish pills, but I doubt he's actually fasting all this time as he seems to be pretty active now.

Mcasella, I absolutely trust your judgement as without you I doubt Mr R and myself would be get through this successfully, thank you very much again! That said, what do you think about my next steps? Should I just stop with meds, keep doing water changes and observe? Or do you think I should keep medicating, maybe with lower dosages / separate meds? (By now I think I have almost all meds we've ever mentioned in this topic - finally Seachem Metroplex arrived, so I pretty much have a full line of Seachem meds now... at least hope so)

Thank you very much again! Mr R and I owe you a lot for helping us

 

I would complete the current dose of meds then work with clean water and observation.

 

I would complete the current dose of meds then work with clean water and observation.

Thank you again! Did a ~50% water change after the last (third) round of API General Cure and added no more meds to the tank for tonight. Luckily that's the long weekend, so I can observe him more closely over the next two days and hopefully he will not exhibit any worse symptoms.

I guess next step will be to clean the large tank and start investigating how to start it properly this time with Seachem Stability...