How Can I Help Striped Raphael Catfish To Survive?

First time poster here, unfortunately start off with a very sad situation - will try to keep things as brief as possible.

There was a very nasty outbreak of ich + fin rot + probably something else (?)in my son's new 65g tank and I'm trying to save our Striped Rafael
Unfortunately I never had a tank before myself (so I know very little and have to learn on-the-fly) and didn't interfere with his decisions and my wife's decisions until the situation went totally out of control :-((( And now I'm trying to be a superman and save the world :-(

-------------- Some context here --------------

Basically here's what I have now:
1) A LOT of mistakes have been made over the last month or so since this new 65g tank has been purchased in addition to an older 13g tank that previously had only a few species: (one) Striped Raphael Catfish, (two) Upside Down Catfish, a few guppies
2) Based on advice and "encouragement" from local Petsmart folks, my son and wife bought like 10 or more new fish and essentially dumped them without any quarantine into the new tank literally a week after it got filled, along with re-homing all species that were in older smaller tank. Most likely temp setting was also messed up due to a defective heater (so the tank constantly had like 72 even though the dial was set at 77).
3) They were doing regular (I guess, once a week or so?) partial water changes and using API Stress Coat every time.
4) Around a week ago the first guppy died and that's when things started to go south VERY quickly.

When I looked at the tank 3 or 4 days ago, I noticed there was a bunch of fish (mostly guppies) with different stages of fin rot + a lot of fish with visible ich.

5) I asked my wife to buy something against fin rot and ich and she brought (again from Petsmart) API Melafix and some Microbe Lift Herbtana (which seems to be just a supplement as far as I understand now). I decided to try heat (cranked the heater up to 84F, didn't go any higher) + carefully adding salt method in a big 65g tank + doing daily 25% water changes with gravel vacuum.

Well, until today it looked like it was working (we still lost a few guppies, but their fins were very damaged), but today we lost one of our Upside Down Catfish :-(((
What killed me most is that it seemed the thing was working and he was feeling better and started moving in the huge tank, but in reality it was just killing him (the picture I attached is a post-mortem picture of the upside-downie :-( - it seems he had some white ich spots, but I didn't think he would succumb so fast.

Anyways, this was just a context, but here's the main reason of my post and my absolute priority #1 now - as soon as this happened, I turned the small 13g tank into a hospital one and immediately moved our Striped Raphael Catfish and a few guppies there since I realized the water in 65g is no good and fish is dying.
- Given that ich seems to be active in the 65g tank and Raphael could potentially have it, I bought API Liquid Super Ick Cure and put 6.5ml in my 13g tank (the recommended dose is 13ml per 13g tank, but I read somewhere that catfish may be too sensitive to ich treatment dyes with an advice to use a half dose)
- I also put API StressCoat to this 13g tank some time before Ick Cure to make this relocation less stressful (if anything can help now).
- I removed charcoal media from the filter before doing this
- I plan to do a partial water change / gravel vac tomorrow or a day after tomorrow (not sure what API Ick Cure recommends)
- I didn't put any salt in the water and the temperature is set at 77-78F

So after a few hours in this 13g tank, I am worried about the Striped guy and how I can help him more (or if what I did was wrong at all...). He looks visually fine for me (I can only detect a few smaller ich spots), but I don't like how he acts. He can sit on the gravel for a while breathing normally and all of a sudden take off and quickly move across all the tank and then literally stop into the gravel like someone is irritating his face from inside :-( When I saw him doing this for the first time, I thought it would be the end :-( I put a catfish pill for him, but I didn't see him touching it (only guppies ate a little).

I am extremely worried about him especially after his upside down buddy died so quickly and so unexpectedly (literally in my view).

That said, is there anything else I can do to help him now? What if there's some other parasite / bacteria attacking him from the inside? Should I look into something like Seachem ParaGuard that seems to be more versatile? (at least based on manufacturer's statement).

For some reason I really love this little guy and want to try everything I can to save him. I hope it's not too late :-(

Any advice is more than appreciated!! Thank you!

 

sorry your going through this it sounds as though your fish had calamanaris the best thing u can do is lower the water temp to 24 digress and do a 50% water change and use watleys funcus aid in your tank for 5 days then do water change 50% then re treat take activated carbon out of the tank

 

He actually looks like he has ich. Does it look like he has been salted? I see white spots all over. If it is ich, then you need to put him back into his tank, and treat the whole tank. All the fish have been exposed.

Is he eating? What symptoms does he have?

johnbetta what makes you think it is columnaris? The med you are recommending I have never heard of.

 

I am sorry if my post has been more confusing than explanatory - I couldn't put it together at 3am :-(
Here are the pics I took today in the morning - so far Raphael pulled through the night in 13g tank with half dose of API Super Ick Cure, but he is quite slow and spends most of the time near bubble makers (somehow trying to put his tail in the bubble stream every time???) or in the corners now. I didn't see him eating his pills lately :-( I see there are ich spots on his body :-(

It seems that he is struggling, but I feel so bad that I have no clue how to help him now :-(
Should I put more of this Herbtana "immune stimulant" thing or can it interfere with other ich meds I started using now?

Thanks a lot!

AllieSten, I'm sorry for being unclear :-( that upside downie guy died before I took that picture, so I am now trying to fight for Raphael's life :-(

 

It sounds like he isn’t tolerating the medication. Catfish can be sensitive to meds for sure.

I would do a very large water change. Vacuum very well.

Then you are going to try to see if he tolerates the heat treatment. Slowly turn the heat up to 88 degrees. You are going to keep it at 88 for 14 days after you see the last spot. So this may be 14-21 days total. Vacuum everyday or every other day to get the cysts that have fallen off your fish. You need to be sure to get as many ich cysts out of the tank as possible. So vacuuming is very very important. Once you are done, then lower the temp back down slowly.

Do not Medicate and use heat at the same time. It looks like you have an air stone, so that is good. Increased temps decrease the oxygen in the tank.

 

AllieSten, thank you very much for your response!

I actually started with heat treatment (though I could only put it to 84F) in the other big tank (65g), but over the next 3-4 days fish kept deteriorating and dying, that's why I moved this little guy to the smaller tank yesterday, pretty much in desperation. I'm honestly very afraid to go back to heat method for this guy now + I think the heater in the small tank is set at 77-78F and not adjustable. I am afraid medicating might be my best bet for now, but please correct me if you think I am totally wrong :-(

I will do vacuuming and water change in the small 13g tank (where Raphael is now) today - should I introduce another half-dose of Siper Ick Cure after that?

Sorry if my next question would sound naive, but are there any realistic ways to help this little guy with his immune system now? (basically help him to pull through the medication period and not die). I read a lot of things on this with some folks even suggesting squeezing a garlic and soaking his pill in it (so that garlic enters his system) or all these Microbe - Lift medications that seem to "have natural components and boost the immune system"

Thank you again!

Also, one more question (apologies for so many of them, but I am lost) - given the history of Raphael (contact with many unquarantined fish for several weeks and being with a huge tank with them for a while), I am afraid he might have more than ich (maybe something else bacterial/parasitic?)
Do you think I should consider using some broader spectrum thing like API General Cure or Tetra LifeGuard / Parasite Guard?

I am very afraid they affect Catfish in bad way, but I am also super afraid of losing more time now and making Raphael even weaker...

Thanks much again!

Short story: after a severe and long-neglected outbreak of ich and fin rot in the big tank, that I tried to treat primarily with heat and it didn't seem to work (fish kept dying every day), I moved the only Striped Raphael and a few guppies to an emergency hospital tank (13g)
I dosed it with a half-dose of API Super Ick Cure right away (as it was recommended on the label for scaleless fish) and some stress-coat to make the transition a little less stressful

Raphael was acting up yesterday evening, moving really fast and scratching the gravel, then stopping for a while and keeping going again. He seems to be much less agitated now (~12hrs after I moved him to the hospital tank), but I didn't see him eating anything here.

So far I am planning to do a gravel vac later today with another 20% water change + probably keep half-dosing API Super Ick Cure as directed on its label (as I don't think I can safely go back to heat treatment now), but my two main questions to you are the following:

1) Given his potential exposure not only to ich, but to who-knows-what from a pet store, and his signs of distress, do I need to switch to broader spectrum meds now (like API General Cure or something similar) instead or in addition to Ick Cure in case there are secondary infections in him already?

2) Can I do anything to help him boost his natural immune system? He looks quite weak now, I wonder if I should try adding any "natural supplements" (I think I have Mircobe-Lift Herbtana + API Stress Coat + API Melafix if it is of any help). Maybe even something Garlic? Limit light to the tank?

Anything else I'm missing that can help a little guy? I really don't want to lose him...

Very much appreciate your help and Happy New Year! Thank you!

 

Raphael can handle the heat, though 88 is excessive (84-86 is recommended, this increases the ich life cycle and kills them faster at this temp), you need to stick with heat/salt or medicine, not both. Using both will weaken the med's effectiveness as well as weakening the fish.
I would stick with your medicine treatment. You can use the herbtania (it is an immune boost and another type of natural meds, artemiss is another variant of medicine but for now I would stick with the ick meds you already have).

 

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I would stick with your medicine treatment. You can use the herbtania (it is an immune boost and another type of natural meds, artemiss is another variant of medicine but for now I would stick with the ick meds you already have).

Thank you very much for your reply! So I am going to:

1) keep daily gravel vacs and 20% wc with 77f temp (can't set different in this tank)
2) keep giving API Super Ick Cure in half doses as directed
3) ? Possibly adding some Herbtana to help his immune system ? (Or it may neutralize API Ick Cure?)
I will not be adding any broader spectrum things like Tetra Lifeguard or API General Cure for now...

Any advice on how to make a little guy eat a little?

Thanks again!

 

Thank you very much for your reply! So I am going to:

1) keep daily gravel vacs and 20% wc with 77f temp (can't set different in this tank)
2) keep giving API Super Ick Cure in half doses as directed
3) ? Possibly adding some Herbtana to help his immune system ? (Or it may neutralize API Ick Cure?)
I will not be adding any broader spectrum things like Tetra Lifeguard or API General Cure for now...

Any advice on how to make a little guy eat a little?

Thanks again!

The herbtania is a natural version of meds and does not affect chemical based meds as far as I have seen using it and the other artemiss in tandem with chemical meds.
You can try garlic juice to tempt him to eat, raphael cats are nocturnal so dropping some food at night might have some results (you can try frozen foods like bloodworms, brine shrimp, or even mysis shrimp, you can also soak these in garlic juice or garlic guard), the garlic is an immune support/supplement that helps keep the fish healthier but also helps with appetite.
He just seems to have ick right now so I would avoid broad spectrum unless something further happens.

 

the garlic is a very good idea that's why I said it mate there is a other treatment u can use get some methaine blue and dip the catfish in it for two seconds then return him to the tank that will help to

 

Thank you everyone,
We did a ~30% water change today with some API StressCoat added with new water. I don't know if that was a right thing to do, but I figured this water change would dilute the concentration of API Ick Cure, so I "replaced" it with around 30% of half-dose I used yesterday so that the impact of water change on meds concentration is minimal.

I am so afraid to jinx, but Raphael seems to be less agitated today and more "natural" in the way I remember this guy before this whole ordeal started. However he seems to place himself closer to the air stone (sometimes even deliberately putting his tail in the air stream) and tail below head level...

---
Some bad news though: second Upside Downie died today in a big tank that has been heat-treated at 84F along with a few more guppies. Most of those guppies in that tank that are still alive visibly had BOTH fin rot and ick :-( Now here's my biggest concern with this - almost all those guys dying have severely damaged fins and damaged slime coat, so I wonder if ick or some kind of secondary infection was their real cause of death :-(... and if it was, how can I make sure that Raphael doesn't have it as well and I let it silently develop while I am only treating his ick :-(((

Going back to Raphael - I am soaking a couple catfish pills in pressed garlic now and plan to drop at least one of those in a few hours (my son usually fed him around 9pm EST every day). I hope it works fine and he eats something.

Thank you everyone again for your replies, you gave me a little more confidence today as I was ready to cry after losing both Upside Downies in less than 24 hours. I keep hoping Rafael will pull through!

 

Thank you everyone,
We did a ~30% water change today with some API StressCoat added with new water. I don't know if that was a right thing to do, but I figured this water change would dilute the concentration of API Ick Cure, so I "replaced" it with around 30% of half-dose I used yesterday so that the impact of water change on meds concentration is minimal.

I am so afraid to jinx, but Raphael seems to be less agitated today and more "natural" in the way I remember this guy before this whole ordeal started. However he seems to place himself closer to the air stone (sometimes even deliberately putting his tail in the air stream) and tail below head level...

---
Some bad news though: second Upside Downie died today in a big tank that has been heat-treated at 84F along with a few more guppies. Most of those guppies in that tank that are still alive visibly had BOTH fin rot and ick :-( Now here's my biggest concern with this - almost all those guys dying have severely damaged fins and damaged slime coat, so I wonder if ick or some kind of secondary infection was their real cause of death :-(... and if it was, how can I make sure that Raphael doesn't have it as well and I let it silently develop while I am only treating his ick :-(((

Going back to Raphael - I am soaking a couple catfish pills in pressed garlic now and plan to drop at least one of those in a few hours (my son usually fed him around 9pm EST every day). I hope it works fine and he eats something.

Thank you everyone again for your replies, you gave me a little more confidence today as I was ready to cry after losing both Upside Downies in less than 24 hours. I keep hoping Rafael will pull through!

The raphael is likely just trying to get more oxygen, but he is conserving energy doing it like he is. If he is acting more natural it is a good sign, hopefully he eats tonight when you attempt to fed him.
What do you mean by damaged? Are they raggedy/look like they are falling apart? Does it look like they have been nipped? The slime coat is a serious issue as that is the fishes' first defense, I would add stress coat at double dose to the tank to try and assist with the recovery of it. But if there is something more serious you may have to stop heat treatment (if it is fungus the temp will have to drop so you will have to switch to meds if that is the case as much as it pains me to say that after telling you to stick to one method).

 

The raphael is likely just trying to get more oxygen, but he is conserving energy doing it like he is. If he is acting more natural it is a good sign, hopefully he eats tonight when you attempt to fed him.

I put a catfish pill pre-soaked in garlic 20 minutes ago - so far it doesn't look like he touched it, but at least he's not agitated like yesterday. I too very much hope he eats something...

What do you mean by damaged? Are they raggedy/look like they are falling apart? Does it look like they have been nipped? The slime coat is a serious issue as that is the fishes' first defense, I would add stress coat at double dose to the tank to try and assist with the recovery of it. But if there is something more serious you may have to stop heat treatment (if it is fungus the temp will have to drop so you will have to switch to meds if that is the case as much as it pains me to say that after telling you to stick to one method).

As painful as it might sound, but I am done with the huge tank for now after so many loved ones died there - there was only a handful guppies left there (most with some tail damage, ranging from slightly nipped tails to almost no tail at all) and a couple very aggressive platties. I moved them to a 5gal container now with some aeration and experimenting Tetra Lifeguard on them. If they make it through over the next week (of course, with daily water changes and such) - well, great, I'll think of what to do with them a little later. My absolute priority now is Raphael

I only mentioned those guys dying because Raphael was with them in the same tank until 2 days ago, so my biggest concern if he could have contracted anything else. Looks I'll be monitoring his condition very close over the next days and while I am trying to be very optimistic, I'd appreciate if you could suggest what potential things I should be prepared for (like if Raphael doesn't start to eat) and what meds I might need to have on hand (I only managed to get Tetra Lifeguard today, no other stronger things seem to be available locally...)

Mcasella, thank you very much for your help again and Happy New Year!

 

I put a catfish pill pre-soaked in garlic 20 minutes ago - so far it doesn't look like he touched it, but at least he's not agitated like yesterday. I too very much hope he eats something...


As painful as it might sound, but I am done with the huge tank for now after so many loved ones died there - there was only a handful guppies left there (most with some tail damage, ranging from slightly nipped tails to almost no tail at all) and a couple very aggressive platties. I moved them to a 5gal container now with some aeration and experimenting Tetra Lifeguard on them. If they make it through over the next week (of course, with daily water changes and such) - well, great, I'll think of what to do with them a little later. My absolute priority now is Raphael

I only mentioned those guys dying because Raphael was with them in the same tank until 2 days ago, so my biggest concern if he could have contracted anything else. Looks I'll be monitoring his condition very close over the next days and while I am trying to be very optimistic, I'd appreciate if you could suggest what potential things I should be prepared for (like if Raphael doesn't start to eat) and what meds I might need to have on hand (I only managed to get Tetra Lifeguard today, no other stronger things seem to be available locally...)

Mcasella, thank you very much for your help again and Happy New Year!

I can understand giving up on a tank, I am having some issues with one of mine and I am going to have to do an autopsy on one of the fish that has died to make sure it isn't something else going on. I believe I just have some fish that feel the need to attack the others, so I have separated ones I suspect to be problems to other tanks with bigger fish so they won't be able to bully them. Right now I have some evidence it was the problem fish but I am watching some of the others in the tank to make sure nothing more serious is going down.
I how you have a Happy New Year's and that mr raphael improves over that time as well.
Some possibilities are probably a good choice to suggest. Surprisingly fish can handle going a couple weeks without food, even with illness. I haven't had a fish go more than a week without eating unless it was close to its end (but most of my fish have eaten or tried to eat on their deathbed, so there is no hard and fast rule for feeding), offer food but make sure it isn't left in there to go bad. (feed at night and if it is still there in the morning remove it, 12 hrs is long enough to tempt them to eat, assuming you feed at 9pm and remove at 9am the next morning.
I would suggest getting kanaplex, furan 2, and sulfaplex - these do gram negative bacteria, most fungus, and sulfaplex is a broad spectrum that helps with bacteria and fungus, as well as protazoan infections. You can get most of these on ebay with free shipping mosto f the time.
Life guard is a good one to have on hand because it is a broad spectrum (so it helps when you aren't entirely sure what you are dealing with, but you should make sure water changes are your first go to when fish are acting weird).

With removing him before they got worse you may very well have gotten lucky to catch the issue with him before it started in the raphael.

 

Mcasella, thanks a lot for suggestions, I will try to order at least sulfaplex and hope it gets here on time if Raphael gets any worse :-(

My biggest concern/fear is how quickly both upside downies died after this whole thing started - I read a lot of forums lately and there was one phrase there that scares me most: "I can not see any fish dying after only showing signs of ich for 1 or two days. If that truly is the case, you are dealing with something that is not ich."
Granted it's not exactly 1-2 days in my case, probably more like at least 3-4 days of neglect + 3-4 days of trying to cure with heat, but I am extremely afraid to miss something bad and lose precious time...

 

I can understand trying to play catch up and losing fish because of it.
Ich/ick normally doesn't kill unless left untreated, even massively ick covered fish can sometimes recover. It may be a different parasite, which the life guard may take care of, there are some internal medicines that treat parasites, like paraguard and prazipro - these can be fed or used to dip the fish in to treat as they can be absorbed through the skin/gills of the fish when in the water.

 

Well, yes, that's my concern, especially given how inexperienced I am :-(

I am only experimenting with Lifeguard in 5gal container with guppies/platties now, NOT in my "main" 13g with Mr Raphael now - we'll see how guppies behave, but Raphael is only getting CoatGuard + API Super Ick Cure + a little Herbtana to boost his immune system now.
The important thing for me is to understand when and how (and not too late...) I need to make a decision to possibly stop ich treatment and start involving heavy artillery and what this is going to be (just Lifeguard, or Seachem Paraguard if I can get it locally fast or kanaplex/sulfaplex). Unfortunately it's pretty much a guessing game for me, but hey, thanks to you I at least know these names now and can try reading more about it.

Thanks again, Mcasella !!!

 

Well, yes, that's my concern, especially given how inexperienced I am :-(

I am only experimenting with Lifeguard in 5gal container with guppies/platties now, NOT in my "main" 13g with Mr Raphael now - we'll see how guppies behave, but Raphael is only getting CoatGuard + API Super Ick Cure + a little Herbtana to boost his immune system now.
The important thing for me is to understand when and how (and not too late...) I need to make a decision to possibly stop ich treatment and start involving heavy artillery and what this is going to be (just Lifeguard, or Seachem Paraguard if I can get it locally fast or kanaplex/sulfaplex). Unfortunately it's pretty much a guessing game for me, but hey, thanks to you I at least know these names now and can try reading more about it.

Thanks again, Mcasella !!!

You can only try your best, for seeing when it is best to watch carefully, any behavior changes out of the ordinary, extreme lack of appetite (where the fish has a hollow belly, this can be a sign of internal parasites), fish top surfing (or gulping air, this is normally an oxygen issue but you have a bubbler so this shouldn't be an issue for you), or deteriorating appearance (which points ot something other than ick, methylene blue can help prevent infection/fungal growth on a fish's injuries by doing a bath or a direct appliance by q-tip).

 

sorry to hear about your fish it could have been alamanaris sounds like it is fungus aid will help with that and water temp at 24 digress

 

sorry to hear about your fish it could have been alamanaris sounds like it is fungus aid will help with that and water temp at 24 digress

Wardley Fungus Ade does not treat columnaris. It treats parasites. It doesn’t have any antibiotics in it, and columnaris is a bacterial infection. It may claim to treat columnaris, but it doesn’t contain the right medications.

It will however treat ich. But it is only available in Australia, not in the US.

Not every white spot is columnaris. There are lots and lots of things it could be. There isn’t a one size fits all treatment that cures everything.

 

Jan 1, morning, ~40 hours since I moved Mr Raphael to this 13g tank and since I gave the first half-dose of API Super Ick Cure

He still seems to have some ich spots on the right side of his body. I am a little worried that he seems to be bothered by those and he doesn't seem to find a comfortable position so he lies somewhere for a few minutes, than changes the position slightly and keeps going.
One other things that worries me is that from time to time he seems to be using gills only on one side of his body (I see only them moving), but then like 30 minutes later he breathes with gills on both sides - I don't know how I can help him

He didn't seem to touch food lately :-(

I will be doing a partial water change in a few hours, adding more stress coat and half-dose of API Super Ick Cure again... unless you think I should start looking for any anti-parazite meds right away (I believe one store may have API General Cure, but not sure what else...)

Thank you everyone for your help!

Jan 1, 3pm; Okay, we did a ~40% water change (hard to thoroughly vacuum the gravel with less water changed) with stress coat added + I introduced another half-dose of API Super Ick Cure.
Good news 1 (hope not to jinx): After the water change Mr Raphael seems to be breathing with both sides visibly working. Ick spots are unfortunately still present on him. Will be trying to feed him in the evening...
Good news 2: My experiment small "tank" where I am trying Tetra Lifeguard didn't see any deaths overnight - we fed guppies there, changed water (with usual Stress Coat + Melafix) and added another Tetra Lifeguard pill

Mcasella, one more question to you (and many-many thanks for all your help so far!!) - I attached a couple recent pics - I just wonder, do you think those spots (I marked them in red in one of the pics - especially a group of spots next to his gill on the left side) is certainly an ich (I think so, but just want to double check it's not something else)?

It's hard for me to guess as at times he was a little "spotty" himself, I attached his picture from 2-3 weeks ago before that outbreak just to give an idea how a little guy looked back then...

Many thanks again for your time!!

 

They look like ich to me, he is also producing more slime coat than his previous picture, also he probably can go a week without food with that fat tummy.

 

Mcasella, thank you! Yeah, he looks like me with that tummy, we both probably need to hit the gym when he gets better lol )

Jan 2, 3pm; did another ~30% water change with added Stress Coat (especially given ammonia reading was close to 0.5ppm) + adding a little more API Super Ick Guard to "replace" the dose I diluted with 30% water change - this is something that concerns me a little bit - instructions on Super Ick Guard bottle suggests the following algorithm: dose, 48 hours, dose again, 48 hours, partial water change. In my case I can't wait 96 hours between water changes - I have to do them daily now and my decision was to top up the dose to "replace" what I sucked out with the water (e.g. if I do a roughly 30% water change after 24 hours, I add 30% of my "normal" dose) - not sure this approach is the right one, but that's what I intuitive thought a right way to do it...

Also tomorrow will be 96 hours since I started treatment with API Super Ick Cure and instructions say nothing at all about if I should continue it or stop after that (I am inclined to give at least one more half-dose)...

In general, Mr Raphael feels less agitated than 2 days ago - he seems to be back to spending hours in his house during daytime (something that he has been doing all the time before). Also he seems to be producing more slime coat and I feel it difficult to say if (e.g. on one of my most recent pics) some white spots are actually still ich spots OR they are just local excesses of slime coat he is producing.

Surprisingly everyone is alive in the other "hospital" / experimental tank that I'm treating with Tetra Lifeguard, so I asked my wife to buy a small filter and a heater for that Sterilite "tank" (she has Petco next to where she works) - I honestly didn't expect most of those folks to survive at all (some of them have literally nothing left of their tails/fins)

Jan 3, 7am: Did a little wc (~15% or so) early morning before going to work as I will only be able to do this again later in the evening and didn't want Mr Raphael to have bad water all day.

I will need to make a decision this evening - if I am giving him another half-dose of Super Ick Cure (the 3rd one, 96 hours since the start of the treatment) or if I should finish this treatment. I will need to try taking better pics later today, but I don't see any obvious ick spots on him. I don't want to subject him to another 48 hours under this med, but at the same time I can't let ick survive and lead to another outbreak... decisions-decisions...

And when the immediate crisis is over, I have to start thinking about how to properly cycle this tank - given how urgently I set it up and how I didn't want to use anything at all from the big tank (as I didn't know what the **** was going on there), I have now an absolutely not cycled tank with 0 nitrites and 0 nitrates and relatively low ammonia readings thanks to frequent water changes and gravel vacs. I need to read how to jumpstart this cycle process without doing too much damage to Mr Raphael who has nowhere to live except for this tank now
Mcasella, do you think I should think about it now or should I wait a little? Thanks a lot!

 

Jan 3, 7am: Did a little wc (~15% or so) early morning before going to work as I will only be able to do this again later in the evening and didn't want Mr Raphael to have bad water all day.

I will need to make a decision this evening - if I am giving him another half-dose of Super Ick Cure (the 3rd one, 96 hours since the start of the treatment) or if I should finish this treatment. I will need to try taking better pics later today, but I don't see any obvious ick spots on him. I don't want to subject him to another 48 hours under this med, but at the same time I can't let ick survive and lead to another outbreak... decisions-decisions...

And when the immediate crisis is over, I have to start thinking about how to properly cycle this tank - given how urgently I set it up and how I didn't want to use anything at all from the big tank (as I didn't know what the was going on there), I have now an absolutely not cycled tank with 0 nitrites and 0 nitrates and relatively low ammonia readings thanks to frequent water changes and gravel vacs. I need to read how to jumpstart this cycle process without doing too much damage to Mr Raphael who has nowhere to live except for this tank now
Mcasella, do you think I should think about it now or should I wait a little? Thanks a lot!

I would go ahead with another ich treatment to make sure it is wiped out of Raphael's system and current tank. I would grab either stability or safestart plus to cycle with since you will be doing in-fish, stability will allow you to do water changes, safestart requires you go two weeks without water changes for the bacteria to take hold (also many people say their readings are weird when using this, I have not used either of them, my water is nearly perfect and I have some many tanks already I move media with fish) do this while doing the final treatment but don't add it until after you get treatment done to make sure the bacteria is able to grow.
I agree with not using anything from the other tank until you get that tank under control, I am not sure if you should treat that tank or not once you get the bucket fish healed up. It would probably be best to treat the bigger tank to make sure whatever the bucket fish have doesn't pass on again.

 

I would go ahead with another ich treatment to make sure it is wiped out of Raphael's system and current tank.

Thank you, I will likely do the same as I want to err on a side of caution - I am just trying not to expose this little guy to more meds than he needs

I would grab either or plus to cycle with since you will be doing in-fish, stability will allow you to do water changes, safestart requires you go two weeks without water changes for the bacteria to take hold

Thanks again, just ordered a small bottle of Stability on Amazon, should be here Friday, right when I end my 3rd half-dose of Super Ick Cure. I don't know if it is better than Tetra SafeStart Plus or not, but I'd feel a little better if I can still do frequent water changes for now.

I removed most of the water from the big tank at this point as with so many different symptoms I am too scared to reuse anything from there before I treat all decoration, tank walls, filter and everything with something strong. Maybe it's excessive, I don't know. There was one loss in the bucket this night, a small guy with badly damaged fins sadly didn't make it through the night...

Mcasella, thank you so much for all your responses, I'd say your help is probably the only thing that gives me some confidence now (and so much needed knowledge!) and keeps me from totally freaking out

 

You're welcome, I am hoping everything works out with raphael and you other tank.

 

Jan 3, 9pm: We did a large water change (~40-50%) as ammonia was reading at 0.5ppm again - I hope that still was a "safe" ammonia as I use Seachem Prime every wc lately.
I introduced the third half-dose of API Super Ick Cure (6.5ml for 13gal tank), diluting it first in one of the buckets with clean water.

Behavior-wise Mr Raphael seems to be very close to normal (but I am ashamed to admit that I haven't paid too much attention to his routine before :-( ) - even when I was doing a water change/gravel vac, he seemed to be curious about how I was vacuuming the gravel and not much agitated.
My wife managed to snap a couple good pics, but I am more and more struggling to say if those are still really ick spots or just excess slime coat.
He was not darting like crazy / flashing today, but rather went into his house right after the water change and another dose of meds - I hope that is a good sign.

I am not sure I will be changing his water in the morning, unless he explicitly asks for it - I guess we'll see...

First shipment came from Amazon today: now I have Seachem ParaGuard, more Prime and a bottle of Garlic Guard - just in case. Kanaplex, Sulfaplex and Stability should come in the next shipment.

 

He still has a couple ick spots on him, most of the "snotty" (sorry no better way to describe it) is the excess slime coat, which doesn't look too bad.
Definitely good to have the medicines on hand, just in case.

 

He still has a couple ick spots on him, most of the "snotty" (sorry no better way to describe it) is the excess slime coat, which doesn't look too bad.
Definitely good to have the medicines on hand, just in case.

Thank you, then I guess it means it was a good call to give him a third half-dose of API Super Ick Cure - I hope he won't need the fourth one in 48 hours, but it looks like only time will tell.

Jan 4, 8pm: I am about to perform a small wc / gravel vac for Mr Raphael soon (and topping up a dose of API Super Ick Cure proportional to how much water I remove during wc).
Mr Raphael found some new interesting positions for the daytime - my son told me he spent pretty much all afternoon looking out of the window of his house - I don't really know if that should concern me (given that he has never been very active during daytime) or not - at least I am happy he's not flashing/darting like crazy as he did 3-4 days ago.

I snapped some low light pics - I still see some white spots that may be ick, so I guess I'll have to dose him the fourth half-dose of Super Ick Cure tomorrow :-( That upsets me a little as he doesn't seem to like this med and the last time I introduced it he became somewhat nervous for the first hour or two and rushed to the bubble maker to spend some time there (again, not sure if there's a connection between 2 events, I just read that malachite green can irritate AND lower the oxygen level, but that's just my uneducated guess).

I also noticed some weird lesion / deformity on his right side, but it looks like it has been there already before, maybe not so pronounced.

Anyways, another day with Mr Raphael staying strong and no deaths in the bucket is a good day

Mcasella, thanks so much again for advice and encouragement! I doubt I'd be able to go through these days without your help!

 

It looks like his armor pattern is just a little crooked more than an injury (so technically the armor pattern could be an old injury sustained when he was younger). He does have a few ich spots still, I'm not seeing as many though, which is great.
They sometimes hang out and sleep upside down which is a little freaky if you aren't used to seeing them sitting at odd angles. If his breathing is normal and he isn't showing signs of stress there shouldn't be much to worry about it.
I'm glad I have been able to help, and I am glad they are showing signs of improvement.

 

It looks like his armor pattern is just a little crooked more than an injury (so technically the armor pattern could be an old injury sustained when he was younger).

My wife reminded me of how he likely sustained this injury - he got stuck in a decoration when he was young and was growing fast - she lost him for almost a week and thought he died - and then she spotted just a tail from one of the shells - I had to very carefully Dremel it and then crack it open (without too much hope to get him out alive), but luckily for him he made it through So you might be absolutely right about the past injury

There was another surprise when I was doing the gravel vac (and the reason I'm writing this at midnight ) - there was one healthy guppy in that tank that looked pregnant to me, but I wasn't sure and wanted to ask if she looks like one. Well, kind of late to ask now But at least I now know how a pregnant guppy looks like. Will now need to read how to take care of little guppies )) (hopefully this is a good sign overall for the future of this tank...)

 

My wife reminded me of how he likely sustained this injury - he got stuck in a decoration when he was young and was growing fast - she lost him for almost a week and thought he died - and then she spotted just a tail from one of the shells - I had to very carefully Dremel it and then crack it open (without too much hope to get him out alive), but luckily for him he made it through So you might be absolutely right about the past injury

There was another surprise when I was doing the gravel vac (and the reason I'm writing this at midnight ) - there was one healthy guppy in that tank that looked pregnant to me, but I wasn't sure and wanted to ask if she looks like one. Well, kind of late to ask now But at least I now know how a pregnant guppy looks like. Will now need to read how to take care of little guppies )) (hopefully this is a good sign overall for the future of this tank...)

Crush up some flake food for them, they know what to do, they don't take much care besides relatively clean, warm water (the babies survive more than adults will, so if mom is doing okay they should all be fine), if you are keeping them in this tank until they grow you will need something at the surface for them to hide in, for the most part they are faster than the adults but a little cover goes a long way (I added in a stem plant just to float along the surface in my japan blue tank where the females are really bad about eating fry and everyone is enjoying the new cover and the newest babies that are about a week old now are doing splendid and their numbers are near what they were instead of them being less by half like last time).

 

Mcasella, thank a lot, I read a couple threads on caring for the fry - I put them in a separate small bowl floating in the tank for now (for the temperature transfer), but will later look into hideouts for them. There were only 2 fish and their mommy looks normal now, so either that was it, or she gave birth to others still in that tank before I noticed and Mr Raphael or a small molly took care of the rest of the fry.

My son doesn't have school today, so he told me Mr Raphael seems to act normal now, mostly hiding either in his house or in a submarine during the day.

I have one question (again, please, forgive me if I am over-cautious and going crazy with it ) - yesterday late night, when I shut most of the lights and Mr Raphael started swimming around the tank and exploring it, I noticed something that looked like very mild redness at the base of his fins on the sides (not the top one, sorry, not sure how those are properly called - the ones that are like "arms", so he has a mild redness around his "armpits"). Now maybe the only reason I noticed it was his whitish belly and if it was on his top fin, I wouldn't have even noticed it on a darker background (it is really very mild, I probably have more pronounced redness on my hands due to freezing temps now).
He started swimming in the dark and from time to time he was kind of trying to scratch his body on the house or gravel, though it was nowhere near those scary flashings he had a few days ago.

I googled this particular symptom ("redness base fins") and got some scary pics of septicemia or some other serious infection in fish, but most of those pics had very bright and even blood-looking spots. Unfortunately I didn't have a chance to snap a pic as it was very dark and when lights are on he rarely shows me his belly. I also ran into some threads with folks reporting this as an adverse reaction / irritation in catfish to malachite green that is in Super Ick Cure or even an irritation from ich itself. Also many people mentioned this as one of the symptoms of elevated ammonia levels (which can be true given this tank is not cycled, even though I'm treating it with Prime daily at partial WCs)...

If he shows me his belly tonight, I'll see how it looks like at a better light (there's also an option that it was just very bad light that made me believe it was a redness) and try taking a picture. I also plan to do a relatively huge WC today (at least 50%) and will need to decide if I am dosing him with another half-dose of API Super Ick Cure, especially given this redness (if it's still there). I reached out to API with another question and they told me that malachite green should not accumulate in the body, so as long as I am properly dosing, it should not cause too much harm.

I know it's hard to say without pics (and I'll honestly try to take some in the evening), but do you think I should change the treatment course if redness becomes more pronounced? I still hope it's something minor or even my imagination/lightning conditions, but don't want to miss if that indicates something else...

Thank you very much again!

 

Septicemia is a very noticeable thing, so if the fish has it it would compare to the pictures even in the early stages.
Pectoral fins is the term.
Since you are dosing with prime he should not be being bothered by ammonia, the scratching is a sign of ich (they irritate the fish so the fish scratches to ease the irritation).
Some of my fishes' armpits are naturally red, so I wouldn't be concerned unless it becomes more pronounced.

 

(...)the scratching is a sign of ich (they irritate the fish so the fish scratches to ease the irritation).

Thank you very much! I guess it means the fourth half-dose of API Super Ick Cure tonight after the wc...

I think the same about ammonia, I put Prime dosing it for the whole tank (~1.3ml for 13gal tank) every day that I do wc, diluting some in the clean bucket water (enough to make the water safe) and putting some directly to the tank shortly after the change (not sure it's the right way to do it or if that matters at all)

Jan 5, 10pm: Did another wc (this time - 50%+) and put another half-dose of API Super Ick Cure to the tank after the wc (6.5ml for 13gal tank)

Good thing: On a second look I didn't see any redness on Mr Raphael today - either it was really my imagination / light conditions yesterday, or it was something very minor that just cleared up.

Bad thing, blaming myself very hard: I feel very bad for my memory - it looks like when I was checking things in the morning, I must've disconnected Mr Raphael's heater and haven't plugged it back, so he spent the whole day without a heater :-( :-( Luckily the house heater was on and an ambient temp was either 71 or 72F, so the water slowly dropped from 77F to around 71-72F over the day, not any lower. I feel so dumb for neglecting such an important thing, especially when Mr Raphael is undergoing treatment.
I figured it out during a water change, so I did it with 72F water not to shock him too much and added a little Stress Guard along with Prime.

Interestingly enough, slightly lowered temperature seemed to have helped with his irritation (hopefully it's not just a slower/more lethargic behavior due to a lower temp) and I haven't seen him flashing / scratching today. He patiently waited in the other end of the tank while I lifted his house and gravel vac'ed under it, and once I put it back he quickly got back into the house and went back to sleep. I really hope this 5-6 degrees drop over a day didn't cause too much damage. It is slowly going back, around 75F now after 3-4 hours after the water change...

Anyway, now I feel like I am a total disaster for poor Mr Raphael. It will be a week tomorrow since I moved him to this smaller tank and started a course of API Super Ick Cure

 

The lower temp probably made him feel a little better, the drop would have been about 0.25 degrees per hour (over a 24 hour period), which is better than most people changing the temp do (most people will do 1 degree per hour or so if raising the temp, and if dropping it let it drop as slow as possible).
If you want you can keep it around 75f since the lower temp eased some of his discomfort.
It could be much worse, you are doing very well for him and he is probably very grateful to have you as his owner (you baby him, feed him all sorts of tasty stuff, and give him fresh water whenever he needs it, he has a nice big tank once it is clean again to go back into and he has a home he can sleep in without being distrubed). One of my baby tanks got too cold and killed the whole spawn of angels (well half of it, the other half I left with the parents and they ate them...) and three baby bronze cories that were about four days old, so you definitely didn't hurt him.

 

Mcasella, thank you very much for kind words!
This small heater is unfortunately not adjustable, so it can only heat to what it is currently preset for which is 77-78F depending on the outside temp. I checked it in the morning, it got back to 78F now.
Jan 6, 11:30am: Mr Raphael seems to look much cleaner now, he spent most of the morning in his house, but when I started hanging out in front of the tank, he went out of his house and spent some time at different spots showing me his different sides
Now at a broad daylight I see that his "redness" is not very pronounced, so it must've been the light I had that made me believe it was more red before.

The only thing that bothers me - it looks like he again is back (at least for some time) to breathing with only one of his sides (right one). When I first noticed it some time ago, it freaked me out, but it returned back to normal over these days. Now it looks like only one side is moving again.
I tried sharing a few very short videos, don't know if these links work.




He doesn't seem to show any other obvious signs of distress (apart from sometimes weird poses, but I learned it may well be a norm for catfish) - I read what people write about it in similar threads online and some people mentioned ich as a cause of this, but others say that it is just a compensatory mechanism and there was nothing to really worry about.

P.S. Yes, looks like the words "I baby him" are a correct depiction of what I do to him lately
I am like a young parent who knows nothing about what babies do and bothers everyone around with questions "Is this normal?", "And what about this??", "OMG, what did I do?"
I am sorry again for this

 

I've seen them take very funny poses, I don't have enough space (with all the other catfish I have that is) but I honestly would love a spotted raphael.
I wonder if like our noses he is switching between them to give his gills breaks? I know that makes very little sense though. If he is able to breathe, even if one side is temporarily incapacitated, he should be fine.
Links show as pictures sadly.

 

I wonder if like our noses he is switching between them to give his gills breaks? I know that makes very little sense though

You know, as a person having deviated septum most of my life, I can absolutely understand the "switching between nostrils" thing and it makes a lot of sense to me
When I first noticed him using one side to breath, I freaked out, but my wife was like "aren't you having the same issue with your nose?!"

I tried re-uploading these short videos to youtube, maybe they'll open this way?

He's still in the same spot, same pose as in the second video and it doesn't seem to bother him much...
Thank you so much!

 

You know, as a person having deviated septum most of my life, I can absolutely understand the "switching between nostrils" thing and it makes a lot of sense to me
When I first noticed him using one side to breath, I freaked out, but my wife was like "aren't you having the same issue with your nose?!"

I tried re-uploading these short videos to youtube, maybe they'll open this way?

He's still in the same spot, same pose as in the second video and it doesn't seem to bother him much...
Thank you so much!

I think I see him faintly using the one that appears to not be working, so it may just be that he is switching to one.