How Bad Off Am I?

So two weeks ago I was at the pet store and decided I wanted a Betta. Got all his stuff, a 1 gal tank, etc and headed home. Started reading and realized he needed more room, and learned he can have buddies. Cool! Then my hubby decided we could get a bigger tank, and we jumped in with both feet. We purchased a 20 gal tank kit and 5 white cloud minnows, 3 rasboras, a Cory cat, two tiger barbs, and two powder blue gourami. Lady at the store said we can use the apI QuickStart and add fish right away to our new tank. So we did! Lost both the tiger barbs and one rasbora. I read a little and learned the Cory likes buddies and that I needed more rasbora since I was down to 2. Went to a different store and got 3 rasbora, 4 panda Cories, 4 kulI loaches, And 1 oto cat. Now I’ve been reading more and I fear I am overstocked. How terrible will this be for them? I have plants and hides, maybe not enough though. I am planning to do my first partial water change this weekend and will be purchasing a gravel vacuum. I have apI 5 way test strips, QuickStart, stresszyme, And accuclear as well as tetrasafe. Also, the lady at the second fish store gave us this plant in one of our bags since we were asking about doing live plants, I have no clue what kind of plant it is but it was floating at first but in 2 days time it got knocked to the bottom and has put down 6 roots! I’m not sure what I need to do with it. I want my tank community to be happy, they are so fun to watch!

 

Usually gouramis get nasty to each other. I’m too lazy to check, but aqua advisor is pretty close when it comes to stocking.

 

Welcome to Fishlore!

The plant you have is Anacharis, it's a low maintenance plant that can either float or be rooted in the substrate.

Could you post your water parameters?

You have a few issues with the stocking of your tank. Your gouramis look like they are both male and a 20 gallon is too small to have two males, they will eventually fight for territory, if you can rehome one that would be the best option.

Some species in your tank are not temperature compatible. WCMM and panda cories prefer cooler tropical water while your betta, gourami, kuhlI loaches and rasboras do better in warmer water.

In the first pic I see a peppered corydoras, it's best to keep them with the same species.

Do you think you could get another 20 gallon? Then you could separate between those compatible with each other. Plus, the more tanks the merrier!

 

Usually gouramis get nasty to each other. I’m too lazy to check, but aqua advisor is pretty close when it comes to stocking.

Aqadvisor is a great tool, but I wouldn't recommend it as the only one or even the best one. Research on sites like Fishbase, Seriously Fish, and Planet Catfish. There are issues with your stocking, but I'll tag TexasDomer to help.

 

First off, Welcome to Fishlore. This place is a wealth of knowledge and the people here are great to get information from.

Unfortunately you are pretty overstocked. Firstly, the Gourami's and Betta aren't suited to be a tank together. They are pretty likely to clash at some point. I also wouldn't personally keep two Dwarf Gourami's (Powder's are a Dwarf to my knowledge) in the same tank, especially if they are both males as they will also clash with each other. To my knowledge, white cloud minnows are a cool water fish and Bettas need warmer temps near 78-80. Rasboras, White Cloud Minnows, KhulI Loaches and the Cories are all schooling fish. Meaning that in order to thrive, it is recommended to have 6+ of each to allow them to school and feel safe. If you were to do this with all the fish you have, you would be even more overstocked they you are.

Personally, I would rehome the Gourami's, White Clouds, and either the Cories or Khuli's. I don't know the minimum tank size for them but they occupy the same space as the cories and one will outcompete the other. I also don't know enough about cories to know for sure if Panda's and the other type you have are the same species. Meaning they may not school together. All cories aren't the same type.

To TRY a community with a Betta, you could try by keeping the Rasboras, upping them to at least 6+ and keeping either the cories or the Khulis. I probably would recommend rehoming the Oto as well. They need very established aquariums to thrive and are also technically a schooling fish.

 

Get your betta into his own tank ASAP. The gouramis are going to tear him apart at some point. He is also not temperature compatible with your other fish.

I would return the oto, as they need a long established tank with lots of algae in order to survive. They are also shoaling fish and prefer groups. White Cloud minnows are schooling fish too. Schooling fish, ALL schooling fish, need groups of at least 5, with more being preferable.

 

You have a lot of problems. I suggest you start doing more research on all the fish you have. Also, do some reading on the Nitrogen cycle. You did not cycle the tank and despite popular belief, adding quickstart does not instantly cycle the tank. I wouldn't take an employees words worth a grain of salt. They are mainly there to sell fish, not give solid advice.

The oto, corydoras, loaches, rasboras, and white clouds are all schooling/shoaling fish, meaning they should ideally be kept in groups of 6+ each. No way there is enough room for each species to have a proper school.

Betta and gourmaI should not be kept together, especially in such a small tank. And yes, 20gal is still quite small. At most I'd only be keeping a single dwarf gourami, a single group of mid dwelling schooling fish, and a single group of bottom dwellers.

Can you test your water for nitrites, nitrates, and ammonia then post the number result here? I would think some of the levels are rather high seeing as the tank was not properly cycled. This means you will have to do more frequent water changes till the tank is cycled.

A stocking I suggest is Either the betta or a single dwarf gourami, either a school of loaches or corydoras or otos, and either the white clouds or the rasboras. Looking at the temperature requirements I think the peppered + panda corydoras should go as should the white clouds as both prefer cooler around 70-72 temps while all the others like warmer temps of around 78.

Side note: the substrate you have now is pretty rough on loaches and corydoras, both of whom have fragile whiskers and soft bellies. Sand is far better for them and I promise you they will appreciate a switch to sand.

 

Thanks everyone for the quick replies, wow! I’ve started reading more on this forum and there’s so much to learn! The lady at the store is who recommended me the two gouramis, said she had some with her Betta at home. Sigh. I’ve been reading about the loaches and am thinking next pay check I will get a tank and do sand substrate and move them, one of the gouramis, and maybe the white clouds if hubby will let me. I got the white clouds as a different online site said they were good with Bettas. I only wanted the panda cories but they had just the one other guy and I felt bad for him, he does seem to hang out with the other ones sometimes though.

I will redo a test strip when I get back home and post a picture for y’all, I did one today and ph was between 7.0-7.5 and the nitrite and nitrate markers didn’t show any color at all. After reading more on the site I realize how bad we messed up as far as cycling the tank, etc and I guess I am lucky we didn’t lose more fish than we did! I’m going to download the ebook from here onto my kindle. In the meantime I am going to do my best to keep the water good and healthy for them while I figure out what will work for our house setup and talk hubby into another tank!

 

Seems like you learned a lot in the past 30 minutes. Welcome to the fishy side. Sounds like you are making some well-needed and beneficial changes.

 

Seems like you learned a lot in the past 30 minutes. Welcome to the fishy side. Sounds like you are making some well-needed and beneficial changes.

Haha yes I’ve become quite educated as to how ignorant I am very quickly! At least I am willing to learn though right??

Here is Mr. Oscar Blueberry, the Betta that started it all

 

Get yourself an API master kit. It'll do a much better job than those strips, will last longer, and in the long run is much cheaper.

It also tests for ammonia, which is the most harmful parameter that your test strips don't measure.

 

Get yourself an API master kit. It'll do a much better job than those strips, will last longer, and in the long run is much cheaper.

It also tests for ammonia, which is the most harmful parameter that your test strips don't measure.

I will get one of those soon as I can!

 

Well if you had 3 tanks and filled out your schools the stocking would be great. I would check craigslist maby you can come up with something cheap.

 

Well if you had 3 tanks and filled out your schools the stocking would be great. I would check craigslist maby you can come up with something cheap.

Oh good idea, I will start looking around on there! Didn’t even think of that.

 

You should try to get some more LOW LIGHT LOW TECH (no CO2 and other complicated stuff)
Plants eat ammonia, nitrate, and nitrites. The more you have, the easier it will be on the fishies! Check out my
Posts: I am a newbie too! Lots of videos and research is helpful. They are free and helpful. Every mistake will make you better!

 

Here is my water parameters according to my test strips:


The first one was taken immediately after dipping in the water, to read gh and kh as instructed on the package.


Second pic is 30 seconds after dipping in water to read ph, nitrite and nitrate according to the package.

Will be buying the master test kit when I go to the big town tomorrow with a petsmart that sells it.

 

Okay from the start:
Betta and Gouramies are incompatible. They also need warmer water than is healthy for white clouds that are essentially cold water fish. Also white clouds need to be in a larger shcool.
The Rasboras, Cories, Kuhlis, Tiger Barbs and the Oto each need to be in a school of atleast 6 for each species.

I'm afraid that if you up the numbers of each species to meet their individual minimum social requirements you'll need in excess of 50 gal.
Finally the Otos while minute fish really needs a 29gal minimum. They also have special dietary needs. They don't eat and store food the same way most other fish does they need a constant stream of fresh algae to remain healthy which is why they need a comedically large tank for their size.

But don't feel too bad a lot of us here have fallen in the trap of believing that the petshop clerks are knowledgeable.
My advice for you going forward is to decide on a couple of species and trade back in the rest for more of the same. But definitely trade in the Oto. Being new to the hobby you're not equipped for its care. Get a BN instead they have been used and abused by the aquarium hobby for a century. They are very hardy and forgiving to a lot of beginner mistakes.

The common advice given by most fishkeepers seems to go along the same line:
1 BN, 1 School and 1-3 Centrepieces. The exact species of the School and the Centrepieces tend to be the favorite of the advice giver.

 

If you want to really get your cycle going, a little easier method is to get an old filter cartridge from a friend and just throw it in your filter. This is another way to do a fishless cycle.

 

Okay from the start:
Betta and Gouramies are incompatible. They also need warmer water than is healthy for white clouds that are essentially cold water fish. Also white clouds need to be in a larger shcool.
The Rasboras, Cories, Kuhlis, Tiger Barbs and the Oto each need to be in a school of atleast 6 for each species.

I'm afraid that if you up the numbers of each species to meet their individual minimum social requirements you'll need in excess of 50 gal.
Finally the Otos while minute fish really needs a 29gal minimum. They also have special dietary needs. They don't eat and store food the same way most other fish does they need a constant stream of fresh algae to remain healthy which is why they need a comedically large tank for their size.

But don't feel too bad a lot of us here have fallen in the trap of believing that the petshop clerks are knowledgeable.
My advice for you going forward is to decide on a couple of species and trade back in the rest for more of the same. But definitely trade in the Oto. Being new to the hobby you're not equipped for its care. Get a BN instead they have been used and abused by the aquarium hobby for a century. They are very hardy and forgiving to a lot of beginner mistakes.

The common advice given by most fishkeepers seems to go along the same line:
1 BN, 1 School and 1-3 Centrepieces. The exact species of the School and the Centrepieces tend to be the favorite of the advice giver.

Thank you! I’m still working on getting a second tank, started looking on Craigslist. We literally just found out we will be moving for his job soon, so have to tighten up on money so I need to find a used tank. I am going to get the apI master test kit today. Lost the peppered Cory Wednesday night (he was one of the first fish and had been acting odd from the beginning, I suspect my original chlorine issue with the water damaged him). And lost one of the rasbora this morning (second batch of fish, has been acting odd since this weekend I don’t know why, just hanging out near the surface but was moving around and eating). All others currently seem fine. Will also look today and see if they have the BN plecos at LFS so I can exchange oto cat. I know I saw a clown Pleco there, is that a good option if they don’t have the BN? I know to not buy a common Pleco from reading on here!

Also, what is the safest way to change tank substrate? I have gotten permission to get sand for the loaches! Is it ok to keep some of the gravel on one end and do the other end in sand? Want to get this done this weekend! If I go all sand how do I clean it? do I still need to buy a gravel vacuum?

Thank you all for being so helpful and not hating on me too much for my mistakes!

 

For changing substrate there's not really a best way. I just scooped it out with a childrens beach toy shovel. For adding sand temporarily shut down the filter and put the sand in with a pitcher or bucket. Just lower the sand down to the bottom of the tank before you dump it out. And WASH THE SAND before you put it in the tank.

You will need to vacuum any substrate so yes. The vacuum will suck up some sand aswell which you then wash and put back in your tank. That's really all you need to keep a sand bottom. And keep it below 1 inch in depts.

 

For changing substrate there's not really a best way. I just scooped it out with a childrens beach toy shovel. For adding sand temporarily shut down the filter and put the sand in with a pitcher or bucket. Just lower the sand down to the bottom of the tank before you dump it out. And WASH THE SAND before you put it in the tank.

You will need to vacuum any substrate so yes. The vacuum will suck up some sand aswell which you then wash and put back in your tank. That's really all you need to keep a sand bottom. And keep it below 1 inch in depts.

Uh oh, I made it deeper... the bag said to use 1-2 lbs per gallon of tank, it’s a 20 gallon and I used about 20 gallons of sand. It’s probably at least an inch and a half thick! What is the reason for needing it less than an inch?

at least I did most of it right, I did shut down the filter and I washed it!

 

There not really a downside to deeper sand outside it being abit more work when cleaning. The problems that may happen for thicker sandbeds occour mostly in sand deeper than 3 inches and insufficient vacuming. So you're not in disaster land. Its just that neither Cories or Kuhlis will ever dig more than half an inch down so deeper sand is really just wasting tankspace that could be abit more water.

 

There not really a downside to deeper sand outside it being abit more work when cleaning. The problems that may happen for thicker sandbeds occour mostly in sand deeper than 3 inches and insufficient vacuming. So you're not in disaster land. Its just that neither Cories or Kuhlis will ever dig more than half an inch down so deeper sand is really just wasting tankspace that could be abit more water.

Oh I see! I used a vacuum for the first time today, it’s kinda neat, I may just be easily impressed lol.

I have noticed since I added the sand the kuhlis are a lot more active during the day than they were before. I’m honestly a little disappointed though, from my reading I thought they would dig in it more haven’t seen them dig in it but I have gotten to see one push a few pieces of sand out of its gills which was neat!

 

Welcome to the forum and the greatest hobby on earth.

 

I have noticed since I added the sand the kuhlis are a lot more active during the day than they were before. I’m honestly a little disappointed though, from my reading I thought they would dig in it more
haven’t seen them dig in it but I have gotten to see one push a few pieces of sand out of its gills which was neat!

The loaches will mainly only dig into the sand when they are scared/stressed. The few times I was buying kuhlis they would quickly dig into the gravel and make it all the harder to catch them. I've had loaches for years but they've never dug into the sand.

 

The loaches will mainly only dig into the sand when they are scared/stressed. The few times I was buying kuhlis they would quickly dig into the gravel and make it all the harder to catch them. I've had loaches for years but they've never dug into the sand.

THIS! When I was changing substrate I legit thought someone must have eaten two of the loaches. Had to keep stirring the gravel to find them, and then could hardly catch them because they were burying back in it so quickly!! It was crazy haha