High ammonia at 4ppm with fish in tank

I gotten my 3 gallon tank with hang on back filter and had de-chlorinate it and let it run for 2 days . Then i gotten a betta, dennerle aquasoil and 2 small anubias for the tank. A week later, i gotten my API liquid test kit and did the water test. The results were high ammonia at 4 ppm, 0 nitrite , 10-20ppm nitrate. So i quickly did a 30% water change and tested it few hours after. The result were still the same. Yes, i understand that i should have do the whole cycle tank but i was told by the local fish store that i can put a fish within a day after adding de-chlorinator.

May i know if anyone had encountered the same problem and found a solution for it? Much appreciated!

 

We encounter this all the time. Your local fish store is 100% wrong. You can't put a fish in the tank after 2 days.....obviously you are seeing why.

Unfortunately, you are going to have to do daily water changes for a long time.
Fortunately, the tank is only 3 gallons so this will be easy. With such a small volume of water your parameters are more volatile and will change very rapidly. This is good and bad because just as quickly as your ammonia will rise, you can get it to drop back down again.

I'm glad you are testing.

You need to change out as much water as you can for now (about 90-100%) then i would continue changing 50% per day for the next 6 weeks....set an alarm and do it at the same time every day.

Keep testing and read up on fish in cycling.

The bacteria that you need to grow will eventually establish and your tank will start to stabilize...but this is a slow process.

Fortunately you have a betta and they can tolerate some pretty brutal water parameters but don't let that deter you from changing the water religiously for the next few weeks.

Dont touch the substrate and don't touch the filter at all for the next 3 months. Just don't do it. Your plants will help this process along because they will eat up the ammonia too.

Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle

 

Hi LostAquarist
Welcome to fishlore.
The shop gave you the wrong information. It’s possible the shop assistant/ person knew no better?

For your information de chlorinator takes 2 minutes to work so you can add fish to new tanks after 2 minutes or 2 days the results are the same.

We say de chlorinator works instantly. The manufacturers say two minutes.

I was told to wait 7 days before adding fish. . Add 3 small fish and wait a week they said. Add 3 more and wait another week they said. I was not given much information about the nitrogen cycle from my first shop. Strangely they have gone out of business.

Your best course of action is to change water often.
My suggestion is to never change more than 50% but to change some water as often as possible. Every day if possible. I won’t suggest setting an alarm but will suggest you “ smash out 5 minute water changes “

Agreed no cleaning of filters, unless they are blocked which is unlikely to happen for months unless you have dead plants. Don’t touch the substrate.

 

We encounter this all the time. Your local fish store is 100% wrong. You can't put a fish in the tank after 2 days.....obviously you are seeing why.

Unfortunately, you are going to have to do daily water changes for a long time.
Fortunately, the tank is only 3 gallons so this will be easy. With such a small volume of water your parameters are more volatile and will change very rapidly. This is good and bad because just as quickly as your ammonia will rise, you can get it to drop back down again.

I'm glad you are testing.

You need to change out as much water as you can for now (about 90-100%) then i would continue changing 50% per day for the next 6 weeks....set an alarm and do it at the same time every day.

Keep testing and read up on fish in cycling.

The bacteria that you need to grow will eventually establish and your tank will start to stabilize...but this is a slow process.

Fortunately you have a betta and they can tolerate some pretty brutal water parameters but don't let that deter you from changing the water religiously for the next few weeks.

Dont touch the substrate and don't touch the filter at all for the next 3 months. Just don't do it. Your plants will help this process along because they will eat up the ammonia too.

Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle

Thanks for your reply! Yeah, i will do water change daily. And the filter is the last thing i would want to touch.

Hi LostAquarist
Welcome to fishlore.
The shop gave you the wrong information. It’s possible the shop assistant/ person knew no better?

For your information de chlorinator takes 2 minutes to work so you can add fish to new tanks after 2 minutes or 2 days the results are the same.

We say de chlorinator works instantly. The manufacturers say two minutes.

I was told to wait 7 days before adding fish. . Add 3 small fish and wait a week they said. Add 3 more and wait another week they said. I was not given much information about the nitrogen cycle from my first shop. Strangely they have gone out of business.

Your best course of action is to change water often.
My suggestion is to never change more than 50% but to change some water as often as possible. Every day if possible. I won’t suggest setting an alarm but will suggest you “ smash out 5 minute water changes “

Agreed no cleaning of filters, unless they are blocked which is unlikely to happen for months unless you have dead plants. Don’t touch the substrate.

Fortunately, my betta doesnt seem to be much affected by the ammonia. Seems to approach the glass tank whenever i am close. Doesnt seem to be affecting his appetite either. Yeah, i will do a 30% water change daily. As for media filter for my hob filter, i was recommended by the shop owner a small media filter called PF media max+. Filter media picture is attached. I also added bottled beneficial bacteria after every water change.

 

Fortunately, my betta doesnt seem to be much affected by the ammonia

For now, but he will. Even though he doesnt seem affected you still need to keep the ammonia as low as you possibly can. It will harm him. You may need to change water more than once a day to accomplish this.

 

For now, but he will. Even though he doesnt seem affected you still need to keep the ammonia as low as you possibly can. It will harm him. You may need to change water more than once a day to accomplish this.

Thanks, i was wondering, how long do i usually need to wait between water changes? i was thinking of doing 30% change every 12 hours

 

Well first you have to get it to zero or close to it. You can change water ever few hours.

After it is down you can do a change when it starts to creep up over .25ppm. Could be once a day, could be every other. It has to come all the way down first.

 

There is a chart I could post about the relationship between PH , temperature and the maximum safe level of ammonia. I don’t think it’s particular helpful to post the chart because sometimes we have little control over air temperature ( the weather) and over the PH ( water supply company) in our tanks . Plus it only leads to the assumption the ammonia is not always dangerous. As you are seeing ammonia may not kill when it’s harmless ammonium but should you get a spell of hot weather the same ammonium becomes toxic ammonia very quickly. I don’t know anything about the long term effects of small amounts of ammonia but I have in the past had fish die in a few hours with just small amounts of ammonia.

In regards to how often it’s possible to do water changes.
My personally opinion working with my own adult fish is 4 hours is enough. At least with the species I have performed changes on so far I have had no losses. I have changed 45% of the water in a tank of adult fish 3 times on the same day.

 

Thanks, i was wondering, how long do i usually need to wait between water changes? i was thinking of doing 30% change every 12 hours

Honestly....you should test your water to figure this out.

The goal is to keep the ammonia as close to 0ppm as possible at all times. So if you test after your water changes....then test again a few hours later, you will get a feel for how fast your ammonia is rising.

Also...make sure that you aren't overfeeding. It's just one betta. Don't turn every meal into Thanksgiving dinner....its not necessary.

I know that before i said to set an alarm, that's just because I don't know what your day to day schedule looks like and IF you needed to set a reminder to change water....you would most likely set it during a time each day when you are at home.

But if you are like a lot of other new fish keepers, you are more than welcomed to obsess over your water parameters and you will get to the point where you will know what your ammonia accumulation rate is over a given set of hours, then you can schedule your water changes based upon that info.

I don't really care what method works best for you....as long as you be consistent with keeping your ammonia and nitrite as close to 0ppm as possible at all times.

 

Thanks for the advices guys! Will do more water changes each day till it gets very low

 

The ammonia you are seeing on the test is from urea. It's in the Aquasoil as a slow release nitrogen source, the urea breaks down slowly to ammonia then nitrites than nitrates but on a total ammonia test it's going to show it as ammonia, which it is, just not in its crazy toxic to fish form. No way is 4ppm ammonia coming from 1 betta.

Urea (carbamide) is an organic compound with the chemical formula CO(NH2)2. It is highly soluble in water and practically non-toxic to mammals and aquatic life.

This is why in a 3g, with 1 betta and a couple days you've got scary high ammonia tests. It's the aquasoil doing it.

Also why it's gonna remain high with water changes for a good while, and it's going to mask it if you do have an ammonia problem with the tank.

If I were you I'd not add any more ammonia producers to the tank(fish) The anubias are probably usuing the straight ammonia from the fish, and I'd do a 30-50% water change daily, to be safe for a month until the tank cycles and the urea comes down, until then you can't really trust your ammonia test.

You could cap the aquasoil with sand or something it should hold the urea release back some.

 

The ammonia you are seeing on the test is from urea. It's in the Aquasoil as a slow release nitrogen source, the urea breaks down slowly to ammonia then nitrites than nitrates but on a total ammonia test it's going to show it as ammonia, which it is, just not in its crazy toxic to fish form. No way is 4ppm ammonia coming from 1 betta.

Urea (carbamide) is an organic compound with the chemical formula CO(NH2)2. It is highly soluble in water and practically non-toxic to mammals and aquatic life.

This is why in a 3g, with 1 betta and a couple days you've got scary high ammonia tests. It's the aquasoil doing it.

Also why it's gonna remain high with water changes for a good while, and it's going to mask it if you do have an ammonia problem with the tank.

If I were you I'd not add any more ammonia producers to the tank(fish) The anubias are probably usuing the straight ammonia from the fish, and I'd do a 30-50% water change daily, to be safe for a month until the tank cycles and the urea comes down, until then you can't really trust your ammonia test.

You could cap the aquasoil with sand or something it should hold the urea release back some.

Holy smokes! The soil is the main source? Will continue doing daily water changes. So its just non harmful ammonia? Does rinsing the soil beforehand helps to reduce these urea? Can i get prime to temporary suppress the ammonia ?

Yeah, i dont plan on getting anymore aquatic animals. Just a betta for me and thats it. Maybe some more plants in the future.

 

Holy smokes! The soil is the main source? Will continue doing daily water changes. So its just non harmful ammonia? Does rinsing the soil beforehand helps to reduce these urea? Can i get prime to temporary suppress the ammonia ?

Yeah, i dont plan on getting anymore aquatic animals. Just a betta for me and thats it. Maybe some more plants in the future.

If it were rinsed first, then water changed for a couple weeks with only plants, it would all settle in and likely be lower than it is but you wouldn't run zeros for it for like a month of frequent water changes.
Figure it like this and you can read a bit more on the aquasoil you got, it has nutrients in it, fertilizers, it's not inert. This is gonna put off to the water to some extent.
Urea is a large particle nitrogen source, so is nitrites, and ammonium, and nitrates. Ammonia is the smallest. Ammonia is small enough for a fish to absorb into its skin and breathe in its gills while the others aren't small enough.
So, ammonia is toxic, while the other forms are much less toxic, since it's too big to absorb.
Science. 1ppm ammonia, becomes 2.4ppm nitrite, or 3.7ppm nitrate, as ammonia gets broken down it becomes a larger particle with a heavier weight, which is why the ppm in the water increases. I don't know the ppm count for urea or what the difference is to ammonia but it's a large particle that easily joins the soil or water, but too large to be toxic to animals.
An ammonia test we use in the aquarium hobby are a total tests in a way, they don't differentiate what the source of it is, just that it is, so like an ammonia test can read ammonia but it can't tell if it's ammonia, ammonium, or urea, it all tests the same.

Aquasoil will test for ammonia anywhere from 2-5ppm for the first 3-8 weeks. It also buffers pH at the same time, so you might find the pH going down the longer it sits in the tank, this would be a good thing because at lower pH ammonia binds and becomes ammonium, a larger than ammonia particle and less toxic to the fish because it's less absorbable by the fish.

You do have right for your fish doing this, if you read on aquasoil it recommends not adding fish for 4-6 weeks until the ammonia test reads zero, washing it helps bit doesn't stop it from leeching.

And yes, you are like 90+% of folks, they had no idea about any of that when they bought it and used it in their aquarium they bought it, use it and find out after what it does.

You have a 3 gallon tank, water changing a gallon a day for a month is a less than 5 minute job per day and easily done. The prime can help and be used as another safety net but not in place of water changing. The water changing must be done to keep it safe, the urea does break down and either becomes ammonia or ammonium depending on the waters pH and temperature, and if it doesn't break down to nitrite because there's no cycle established, what urea you have that's showing as ammonia will become ammonia given the time, temp and right pH to do so which can then be deadly to your fish.
You are doing a "fish in cycle". Water changing will keep it safe until the cycle can break it down all the way to nitrates the plants will use some of it and more plants can do more, but the water change is what need to keep happening through your cycle and until the aquasoil stabilizes and stops leeching the urea.

 

Thanks, i was wondering, how long do i usually need to wait between water changes? i was thinking of doing 30% change every 12 hours

Your test results will tell you when to do water changes and how much you need to change.

No need for a water change if the test values are good. If you test .25 ammonia and 0 nitrite and 20 nitrate for example, there would be no need, but if Ammonia is 1ppm you will needn to do a 50% change to get to 0.5 and a second 50% to get to 0.25.

 

Before OP does anything crazy i just want to mention that ive seen this post on reddit and its missing a critical info which is the water is acidic around 6-6.6 pH.

Ammonia is not toxic at this pH and OP should probably look into blackwater setups

 

Before OP does anything crazy i just want to mention that ive seen this post on reddit and its missing a critical info which is the water is acidic around 6-6.6 pH.

Ammonia is not toxic at this pH and OP should probably look into blackwater setups

I had assumed it was acidic, again, the aquasoil doing it's thing. The water changing still applies the high ammonia and low pH of it won't last forever.

Basically why I'm not suggesting blackwater, it's the soil doing all of this and at some point it won't anymore. Just easier to tell someone to water change until the effects diminish than to tell them how to establish a true blackwater aquarium, I mean, i can tell someone how to stain water, but getting it right and stable and consistently stable and true blackwater,,,,, in 3 gallons of water,,, it's kind of a fools errand if you ask me.

 

Ah I missed the 3g part, it was on the other site. That's a bit small..hopefully the betta gets an upgrade in the future. Im guessing OP has naturally soft water unless he was using RO/distilled?

 

Hi guys, its been more than a week since my last reply. Just an update to you guys
about my tank conditions.Its been a week since the last water change. Ihave never once seen my nitrite change to other colour other than the light blue. Also, since my last reply, i had added a new plants (the one in the middle with lighter green colour), which im not sure what is it called but it is a low light plant as confirmed by the shop owner and a couple of red root floaters.