Here we go again! Dirted 29 setup

And it looks like the tank may be cycled! 0s for ammonia and nitrite, looks like 10-20 nitrate. Surprised it happened quite so quickly, we were hanging around 3 ppm nitrite since that water change. But I did add cycled bio media from my LFS two weeks ago, and perhaps that helped sped things up.

So if the water parameters hold, I may be stocking soon—leaning towards CPDs now, and any thoughts on them would be appreciated.

Today’s FTP:

 

Deja vu all over again! Despite an uneven start to the day (while attempting to take an API nitrate test, I exerted too much force while removing the cap between steps 1 and 2 and accidentally crushed/broke the test tube, though I did manage to avoid any cuts and/or chemical burns; also found out that my LFS closed for Labor Day, so no intentional fish purchases today), test strip results still showed no ammonia/nitrite and a bit of nitrate, so I decided that that I was cycled and got back in contact with the same local seller who sold me 8 shrimp and an accidental endler last fall. I also changed out about 25-30% of the water; while doing so I discovered that a light vacuum of the top of the sand (being sure not to disturb the underlayers) cleans up the sand nicely, as you can see from the portion in the left center of the attached photos.

This time I asked for 12 shrimp. Arrived after a 40 minute drive for the pick-up (my son slept the entire way there and back!), to discover that he had bagged 13-14 shrimp and (you guessed it), a small endler fry, nearly identical in size (about 1/4 inch) to the one from last time.

So here I am again with a tank containing shrimp and one small endler fry. I panicked bought (worried about the fry getting sucked up) white filter floss on the way home. Not sure what I was thinking--obviously should have gone with black. I will either remove it eventually once the endler is larger or replace it with something black if worried about shrimplets getting sucked up.

All inhabitants seemed to be doing well before I turned out the lights. A couple of pics are below. These are Neocaridina davidi shrimp of various colors (red, native-type-like, blue/red rili). I know this means that they won't breed true, but I actually quite like the varied looks and won't mind it even if the colony eventually breeds back to native type. I suppose that the endler fry means that I'll wait a week before purchasing CPDs or emerald dwarf rasboras? Or is it already big enough at 1/4 inch to avoid getting eaten by something as small as the CPDs? Perhaps I'll go down and eyeball the CPDs they have at my LFS and decide from there.

In any event, feels good to have non-snail life in the tank...Speaking of that, I may need to make a decision on the snails soon. They are ramshorns, and while I hate killing things and really like the look of them, I'm worried about the population getting out of control. It may eventually become assassin snail time...

 

Deja vu all over again! Despite an uneven start to the day (while attempting to take an API nitrate test, I exerted too much force while removing the cap between steps 1 and 2 and accidentally crushed/broke the test tube, though I did manage to avoid any cuts and/or chemical burns; also found out that my LFS closed for Labor Day, so no intentional fish purposes today), test strip results still showed no ammonia/nitrite and a bit of nitrate, so I decided that that I was cycled and got back in contact with the same local seller who sold me 8 shrimp and an accidental endler last fall. I also changed out about 25-30% of the water; while doing so I discovered that a light vacuum of the top of the sand (being sure not to disturb the underlayers) cleans up the sand nicely, as you can see from the portion in the left center of the attached photos.

This time I asked for 12 shrimp. Arrived after a 40 minute drive for the pick-up (my son slept the entire way there and back!), to discover that he had bagged 13-14 shrimp and (you guessed it), a small endler fry, nearly identical in size (about 1/4 inch) to the one from last time.

So here I am again with a tank containing shrimp and one small endler fry. I panicked bought (worried about the fry getting sucked up) white filter floss on the way home. Not sure what I was thinking--obviously should have gone with black. I will either remove it eventually once the endler is larger or replace it with something black if worried about shrimplets getting sucked up.

All inhabitants seemed to be doing well before I turned out the lights. A couple of pics are below. These are Neocaridina davidi shrimp of various colors (red, native-type-like, blue/red rili). I know this means that they won't breed true, but I actually quite like the varied looks and won't mind it even if the colony eventually breeds back to native type. I suppose that the endler fry means that I'll wait a week before purchasing CPDs or emerald dwarf rasboras? Or is it already big enough at 1/4 inch to avoid getting eaten by something as small as the CPDs? Perhaps I'll go down and eyeball the CPDs they have at my LFS and decide from there.

In any event, feels good to have non-snail life in the tank...Speaking of that, I may need to make a decision on the snails soon. They are ramshorns, and while I hate killing things and really like the look of them, I'm worried about the population getting out of control. It may eventually become assassin snail time...

Tanks looking great! The shrimp also look really good in there. I doubt the CPDs would eat the ender provided with all the plants but waiting would never hurt.

 

Tanks looking great! The shrimp also look really good in there. I doubt the CPDs would eat the ender provided with all the plants but waiting would never hurt.

Thanks! Yes, quite nice to have some things swimming around. Accidental Endler 2 is doing well, apparently anyways--was really going after frozen baby brine yesterday. I may add 2-3 amano shrimp today.

 

All tank inhabitants are doing well. Test strips show about 8-10 ppm nitrate, no nitrite, no ammonia.

Mostly wanted to write another post just to state how much I enjoy dirted tanks. Growth is not nearly as fast as I would imagine it is in a Co2 tank, but it is steady and feels 'natural.' There is something very calming (almost 'unmodern'?) about a tank in which the plants aren't being pushed to grow as fast as possible or being supplemented with fertilizers, and where excitement comes at the steady appearance of crypt and sword leaves every 4-5 days. Not that there is anything wrong with other methods, but I do quite enjoy the dirted tanks, at least at the present moment where the dirt seems to providing all nutrients necessary for many of the plants...And the method that I have followed of attempting to suck up nutrients from the water column with lots of plants seems to be working, at least so far--I have been very pleased with the lack of serious algae issues so far.

 

Changed out 5 gallons tonight in preparation for possible additions tomorrow. I also added a Fluval M150 heater.

FTPs and photo of the little endler from tonight are attached.

 

Lots done today. Picked up 12 CPDs and added to the tank. $69 in total--not cheap! They are definitely skittish (primarily spent the day hiding near the bottom in dark corner behind the driftwood and beneath the water lettuce), but look healthy and came out to feed on BBS. Hopefully they stay away from the Endler; luckily they seem to usually be at different levels of the tank. Ultimately the reason that I went with the CPDs over White Clouds came down to temperature--the tank has been as high as 77 for water temperature this summer, which is a bit higher than the maximum I would feel comfortable keeping the White Clouds at. I neglected to mention it in my last post, but yesterday I added a Fluval M150 to the tank and can thus keep it at a good temp for everyone in the winter.

I also later went back to the LFS and picked up a white/olive mystery snail. I've really been worrying about the ramshorn population, especially as I hate killing things. My hope is that the new big fella to the snail world of the tank helps keep the population at a reasonable level (if so, I will be very glad to have the ramshorns, as I find them quite cool) both by outcompeting them for food and perhaps eating eggs. (no idea if mystery snails do the latter, but seems logically possible)

With all the new additions, it felt necessary to do a task that I have been somewhat dreading: fitting the glass/plastic lid onto the tank. Took over an hour, but got it done. Toughest bit was figuring out what to do with the 1 inch of the driftwood that sticks above the rim of the tank. I initially thought that I could use branch clippers to clip it off, but quickly found that the torque required was starting to yank the slate base out of the substrate. So instead I got the big auger drill bit out and made an ugly but functional hole that I then expanded with another cutting tool. Also cut out an opening for the filter. The most annoying part was figuring out what to do with the 1/16 inch of plastic connecting material that hung over beyond the glass and prevented the lid from fitting. Eventually got the job done with scissors, nail clippers, and an exact knife. Seeing the mystery snail powering up toward the top afterward made me glad I didn't put this off.

So I suppose today sort of completed the build in a sense. I'll keep posting in here for a couple more weeks until it is clear that everyone is doing well. Then perhaps I'll ask the mods to move this over to the journal forum if this is possible. A special thanks to Red Onion for the much appreciated support and help over the course of this build!
(Pics from the day are attached)

 

Quick update: all tank inhabitants seem to be doing well overall. It's hard to get a count on the CPDs, but I haven't seen any dead, and I've gotten up to counts of 10 or 11, so I think they are probably all still there. One or two are on the skinnier side and one or two have faded colors, so not out of the woods yet. But most or all are feeding well on BBS. They were VERY shy/timid the first day into yesterday, but seemed increasingly confident today and were out and about more. I saw a bit of sparring just now, and also saw one take a run at the endler fry. (with no success, though the endler fry does seem to be hanging tighter to the water lettuce after being out and about for much of the day yesterday)

Shrimp all seem well as does the mystery snail (hilarious and occasionally frightening to watch her/his falls from the top of the tank glass). I also just saw a Malaysian Trumpet Snail, so current stocking list is: 1 endler fry, 12 CPDs, 1 mystery snail, 13-14 davidi shrimp, multiple ramshorns and also (probably) at least a few Malaysian Trumpet Snails.

As mentioned before, I want to keep things not highly stocked fish-wise. There are, however, some fish/other inhabitants I could see myself getting in the near-intermediate future. In order of likelihood (greatest to least), they are: amano shrimp (2-3); three to four more endlers (but if so this wouldn't be until I can sex the fry--I don't want males and females, so would go with whatever sex the fry is); live daphnia (if so, would start a culture in a one gallon bowl I have, but ultimately try to seed and sustain a colony in the main tank); a bristlenose pleco (of some kind); Thai micro crabs; corys (like the idea of the pygmys, but not sure how they would do in the harder water); kuhli loaches (again, not sure how they would do in the harder water); hatchetfish (''harder water). Again, I'm not getting all of these, just a list of some that I have thought about.

No pictures today--will hopefully have a video from feeding time soon.

 

Some shots from today. Have a video too, but seems to be too large to post?

 

Upload the vid to youtube and paste the link here.

 

Upload the vid to youtube and paste the link here.

Thanks! Too tired to do this for this one tonight, but glad to know how to do this for the next time!

 

Cool, setting up a 29 myself, has always been my favorite footprint easy to maintain and plenty of viewing space with the 18" height. I'm going low tech with 60 pounds of CaribSea Eco Complete, had good results in the past. Never kept Cloud Minnows, South Florida water is too hot out of the tap lol, Axolotl dreams crushed as well. Jungle Val, Java Fern, Crypts, Hygrophila, Sagittaria will be my plants. Going to move my GBRs from my 16 to the 29. Thinking about using the 16 for DwarfPuffer, just worried about feeding them, they can be finiky from what I have read. Good luck, show us pics

 

Cool, setting up a 29 myself, has always been my favorite footprint easy to maintain and plenty of viewing space with the 18" height. I'm going low tech with 60 pounds of CaribSea Eco Complete, had good results in the past. Never kept Cloud Minnows, South Florida water is too hot out of the tap lol, Axolotl dreams crushed as well. Jungle Val, Java Fern, Crypts, Hygrophila, Sagittaria will be my plants. Going to move my GBRs from my 16 to the 29. Thinking about using the 16 for DwarfPuffer, just worried about feeding them, they can be finiky from what I have read. Good luck, show us pics

Yea, I really like the 29 too. Only other tank size that I think I would prefer at this stage of life (busy work, busy school, busy fathering) is maybe a 33 long. But then again, the cost for the 33 is much higher (I got my 29 for about $35 from Petco)...Look forward to pics as well of the new 29!

Also, a couple of videos as promised. Let's just say that I won't be winning an Oscar anytime soon for camera work...

 

It's been a few days since my last post, but all is well. No fish losses as far as I can tell. The endler fry is now big enough that I think she/he is beyond danger from the CPDs. As I wrote in a different thread, and despite an initial miscount, I think I have either a six:six CPD male- female ratio or seven to five. So not too bad. Current plans are to add 3-5 more endlers once this one is large enough to sex.

The shrimp also seem to be much more confident, and several are colored up nicely.

I'm pretty happy overall with plant growth. As I wrote in a different thread, I have been puzzled by slow growth by the sword on the right. But it may be slowly starting to grow a bit. The wisteria growth by two stalks is pretty remarkable-- about a foot over the last month. Two ludwigia are hanging in and growing, though I think one has stem rot. At some point I want to get more ludwigia and give it another go. I was just watching a father fish stream in which he recommended not pushing stem plants all the way into the dirt in a dirted tank, and maybe this has been my problem? Anubias glued to the rocks and a dwarf water lily are also on the wish list.

Weekly maintenance at this point is just a 20-25 percent water change and thinning out the water lettuce and duckweed.

That's all for now folks, FTS attached/below.

 

It looks great! I read the first couple of posts when the thread started and then lost track. I also like the 29 g and have one set up myself.
Oh, and good luck with your grad studies!

 

Thanks! I've been reading your stem plant tank journal as well and have really enjoyed it/learned from it. (still struggling with stem plants besides the wisteria and pogostemenon (if the latter even counts))...And thanks for the well wishes regarding studies--diss. defense is scheduled for spring 2023 and so good luck will def. be hoped for!

 

Thanks! I've been reading your stem plant tank journal as well and have really enjoyed it/learned from it. (still struggling with stem plants besides the wisteria and pogostemenon (if the latter even counts))...And thanks for the well wishes regarding studies--diss. defense is scheduled for spring 2023 and so good luck will def. be hoped for!

May I ask what area of study?
And stem plants still thwart me in my low tech tanks. But then I’ve not tried a low tech dirted tank. Right after I set up my 75 g (2018) I purchased some lovely already submerged wisteria. It grew great for a while then slowly melted. It’s one of my favorites though so I’m super excited that it’s doing well in the 20 long.

 

Glad the wisteria is doing well in yours, and fingers crossed that it continues to do well in mine! If it does, I’m sure it’s the dirt...I’m in History (Chinese/Central Eurasian).

Also, an update: as mentioned I have been wanting to try more stem plants in the middle, preferably ones with some sort of red color. My LFS got a new plant shipment in, and were kind enough to give me 2 for 1 (only five+ bucks at that) on some sort of red-stemmed Ludwigia. So here we go again with an attempt at Ludwigia in the middle.

The attached pictures are from after the planting but before I went to town yanking out water lettuce and duckweed (removed about half) and then conducted a water change. I have been cutting my very hard tap water with a bit of distilled water, but was out of the distilled today and will need to make this up next time.

Not sure if you can tell, but the pogostemenon is really starting to take off. That stunted sword is also starting to grow a bit. A leaf melted off the crypt on the far right today, but I’m going to assume that was due to shade from the water lettuce. There is also quite a bit of new hornwort growth since planting last month. Only the vals and two remaining first Ludwigia stems are not doing too much.

All creatures are well, though the CPDs were fairly stressed out from the water change, which included me cracking my head on the top of the tank. :-(.l I’m also pretty sure I can see a gonopodium on the endler—if so, he will be getting some new bros soon.

 

So, a question: is it necessary to trim the water wisteria now that it has reached the surface? Or can I let it hang/stay as is for a while? And if I do trim, do I basically pick a spot half way down, cut, strip a few leaves off to create a stem and then replant the former top section? And will the cut bottom section grow upwards, or branch from the cut? Thanks in advance for any replies!

*(I should add that I personally like the way the wisteria looks as is. So I would only trim at present if it is recommended/necessary to prevent problems)

 

So, a question: is it necessary to trim the water wisteria now that it has reached the surface?

It's a good thing for a plant to come out of the water for the same reason floating plants are good. There is more CO2 in the air than there is in the water. Because of this a plant can grow faster and consume ammonia/nitrites more efficiently. If you haven't already, I highly recommend Ecology of the Planted Aquarium by Diana Walstad as she goes into great detail about dirted tanks and their benefits.

 

Update: added a yellow/black nerite snail today. Fingers crossed that it is a male, as I really like nerites but I am not such a big fan of the eggs. I'm pretty sure that some of the ludwigia has already grown--top leaves are a really nice pinkish red as well. A few tank pics are below (unfortunately still no really good ones of the CPDs--hard to photograph!).

It's a good thing for a plant to come out of the water for the same reason floating plants are good. There is more CO2 in the air than there is in the water. Because of this a plant can grow faster and consume ammonia/nitrites more efficiently. If you haven't already, I highly recommend Ecology of the Planted Aquarium by Diana Walstad as she goes into great detail about dirted tanks and their benefits.

Very helpful, thank you!

 

Update: added a yellow/black nerite snail today. Fingers crossed that it is a male, as I really like nerites but I am not such a big fan of the eggs. I'm pretty sure that some of the ludwigia has already grown--top leaves are a really nice pinkish red as well. A few tank pics are below (unfortunately still no really good ones of the CPDs--hard to photograph!).


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Very helpful, thank you!

Looking really nice and lush!

 

Looking really nice and lush!

Thanks!

 

The good news: created a rock pile in the middle of the tank yesterday that will hopefully serve as a home for shrimplets in the future. And I also picked up a dwarf lily bulb and plopped it in the tank. Also did my weekly water lettuce yanking.




The potentially bad: during my weekly water change today I smelled a tangy scent and tested the tank for ammonia for the first time in a couple of weeks. Looked to be a .25 ppm last night after the water change, though I’m not 100% sure. Tested again today; looked more yellow, but I was going back and forth on whether had a light greenish tint. Hopefully either was my imagination or a transient problem! Everyone seems healthy...

 

Looks like the ammonia reading was a blip...have been back to zero the past couple of days (but bc of the tangy smell Friday, I tend to think there was ammonia in there—interesting).

 

Tank pics from tonight. Very happy overall with plant growth--even the new ludwigia seems to be doing almost well. Some trimming of the wisteria will likely be next as it is really starting to shade the big sword.

Btw, pretty sure the endler is actually a female and not sure at all what this means for stocking going forward. Don't want lots of livebearer young and unsure how to obtain more females that aren't pregnant.

 

I just started following and read through your thread- nice set up! I especialy like the variety of plants you have. I keep CPDs and cherry shrimp together also, and I really enjoy those two species together (and I have dirted tanks too!)

 

I just started following and read through your thread- nice set up! I especialy like the variety of plants you have. I keep CPDs and cherry shrimp together also, and I really enjoy those two species together (and I have dirted tanks too!)

Many thanks! This is the closest I have come to a 'successful' tank (I am especially glad that the fish/shrimp all seem to be doing well after a month+), and it will be interesting to see where it goes from here. I will be on the lookout for your tanks as well!

 

Here’s a few tank pics from tonight. Some of the CPDs are getting fairly chunky, though very difficult to catch on film. Currently debating whether or not to buy a 10 gallon for both quarantine of new fish and perhaps spawning attempts in the future.

 

After a failed attempt last month, finally got the API Nitrate test bottles out and did an official nitrate test. Wanted to do it both to see how accurate the test strips are (they have been suggesting almost zero nitrate), and because the tank had gone a week since its last water change and so today was a perfect time to see how well it is progressing toward my initial goal of being a 'relatively self-sustaining (i.e. low nitrate) tank. I've waited so long to do the API nitrate test both because of all of the warnings on the nitrate tests (seriously, have you read them!?) and because the last time I attempted it I crushed the test tube and nearly sliced my hand with glass and apparently toxic test fluid.

The API test was a slightly orange yellow, so we'll say 2-5 PPM nitrate after a week since the last water change. Honestly, it looked closer to zero than five, which also suggests that the one year-old test strips are also pretty darn accurate. This is welcome news both because it suggests that the large number of snails are not appreciably adding to nitrates (good because I hate killing things) and because it means the tank has progressed well toward the initial goal of being a low nitrate tank...

All of which also suggests that this build is over. It has now been a month since the CPDs were added (I counted to 12 today, plus the one endler, so looks like no losses) and the tank, while not mature, seems to be past its initial build stages. Many thanks to all who contributed/followed, and again, especially to Red Onion. I will start a journal thread soon (honestly not completely sure why builds and journals are separate, but when in Rome...) so the tank will not be disappearing from FishLore. Below are a few personal takeaways from the build:

1. I'm officially a dirt convert. After two dirted tanks, I don't think that it is quite the miracle medium some make it out to be, but the combination of effectiveness and (low) price is hard to beat--in NBA terms dirt is the 6'8 power forward prospect with a 7'5 wingspan. I suspect that I will need to start adding ferts soon (some holes in the wisteria and other plants), which is a bit disappointing, but almost everything that I have put in the tank has grown, some in very nice fashion. And dirt+sand came to about $19 total ($13 if not including the bone meal, of which I used about 1/200th).

2. So far I think that I have achieved the goals set out in the first post of this build. #3 (to create a self-sustaining ecosystem) was discussed above in terms of the nitrates. I would love to find a way to also seed the tank with some sort of food source, but that may honestly be a goal for a future tank with sump (which would allow for some food source to be grown in there). #1 (to create an aquarium that promotes the health of the livestock) is going well so far as also discussed above. And though not a show-stopper, the tank is visually pleasing to me (and wonderfully, to my wife!) and does indeed have nooks and crannies (#2).

3. Some of the biggest aids to attaining (so far) those goals, and things that I am particular proud about, have been patience and forbearance. This was the first time that I have done a fishless cycle. I have also held off (many times!) on my desire to add a list of 'dream fish' that include honey gouramis, kuhli loaches, norman lampeyes, a betta, hatchetfish, a school of piranha, etc. Hopefully I will largely continue to resist adding these. If anyone reads this in the future who is a newbie, consider seriously the benefits of a fishless cycle and think seriously before stocking your tank to the 'limit'. The fishless cycle removed much stress/worry from the setup stage for me; an understocked tank has many benefits, including especially more leeway in terms of mistakes and water changes.

Future goals that will kick off the journal include getting an anubias or two going on the rocks, as well as perhaps a dwarf water lily (didn't post in this thread, but the one I tried two weeks ago ended in quite the smelly mess three days ago). Once I figure out whether the endler is a male or female I will also likely be stocking some more endlers; I may try Thai micro crabs and/or Amano Shrimp as well. So hopefully that provides some reason to check out the journal posts as well. Again, thank you very much to all!

Below are the tank on setup day and today.

Setup Day:



Today: