Help with Sick Betta (Thank you in advance)

Tank

What is the water volume of the tank? 10 gallons
How long has the tank been running? 4 months
Does it have a filter? Yes
Does it have a heater? Yes
What is the water temperature? Usually 77/78 (moved it to 80 yesterday to see if that helps at all with the disease)
What is the entire stocking of this tank? (Please list all fish and inverts.) Now 1 betta/1 nerite/2 amano shrimp. Just before serious illness began also had 1 mystery snail and 10 chili rasbora

Maintenance
How often do you change the water? Prior to illness every 2 weeks. Have been changing much more frequently since.
How much of the water do you change? ~25 percent
What do you use to treat your water? Chlorine remover (have been using a stress coat/conditioner since illness began)
Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water? Water and debris on sand bed

*Parameters - Very Important
Did you cycle your tank before adding fish? Fish-in cycle with water changes and monitoring. The fish was the betta and he seemed fine throughout the cycle. Illness began ~1+ month after finish of the cycle.
What do you use to test the water? Ammonia test. During cycle was using 5 in one test strips as well for nitrites/nitrates etc..
What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”. I know this is not good/ideal, but I have only tested ammonia recently-- 0 PPM. Based on previous numbers from test strips pH should be about 8.0. Water is very hard, though I had been diluting with about 33% distilled water.

Ammonia: 0 PPM
Nitrite: When I tested 2 + months ago (tested from setting the tank up until shortly after cycle), was 0 PPM
Nitrate: "" At time was hard to tell exactly, but seemed to run between perhaps 10-50/60 (I would guess 20-40)
pH:""~8 (may be a bit lower now as a planted tank)

Feeding
How often do you feed your fish? Betta pellets and baby brine shrimp
How much do you feed your fish? 12-14 pellets a day.
What brand of food do you feed your fish? Tetra Betta Floating Mini Pellets
Do you feed frozen or freeze-dried foods? The baby brine shrimp were frozen--mostly were for the chilis but the betta ate these too.

Illness & Symptoms
How long have you had this fish? 4 months
How long ago did you first notice these symptoms? Severe ones began ~10-14 days ago
In a few words, can you explain the symptoms? Not eating, lying on bottom of tank. Also has swollen area behind gills. Fast breathing. Has what may be a damaged scales and damaged fins. (see attached photos)
Have you started any treatment for the illness? Salt at about 1.4 tablespoons for the tank
Was your fish physically ill or injured upon purchase? No
How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all ?Significant change--had been very outgoing and active.

Explain your emergency situation in detail. (Please give a clear explanation of what is going on, include details from the beginning of the illness leading up to now)

Betta is in rough shape. A bit of a long story, but as noted above, I bought the Betta at the same time as the tank (early July) and did a fish-in cycle. This is basically a Walstad-like tank (dirted substrate capped with sand) and I did regular water changes and tracked ammonia, nitrites, nitrates. Also used some bacteria-additive products. Ammonia numbers weren't super high and on only one day did I perhaps notice any sort of change in the Bettas behavior, which was always very outgoing/active (and even that was slight). The ammonia cycle was completed after 10-14 days, though nitrites lingered high for a while, which I later learned can happen with Walstad tanks. Took perhaps 1+ month to complete the whole cycle. A week or so after the cycle completed I added 6 chili rasboras. One died after a week or sobut the others did well and a month+ later I added 5 more. Also eventually had one mystery snail, one nerite snail, two amano shrimp.

About the time I added the 5 chili rasboras I noticed that part of the Bettas dorsal fin was gone. No fin nipping from the chilis, and I eventually came to the conclusion that it had caught in either the filter intake or on spiderwood in the tank. That was about late August and by mid-late September translucent finnage had grown back in (also on the caudal fin, which had apparently also had some damage that I hadn't noticed previously). By early October the fins were beginning to color back up and I thought the problem was solved.

In early October I added the final 5 chilis. The Betta's very occasional flaring/chasing of the first 5 chilis picked up pretty markedly soon after this. About two and a half weeks ago I noticed that the chilis were schooling very tightly together, counted them, and realized one was missing. Assumedly the Betta had eaten it. I then took the other 9 chilis back to the LFS that day. Catching them really messed the tank up quite a bit, lots of things moved around and lots of c*** stirred up from the bottom of the tank. The Betta acted OK for 3-4 days afterwards, but then I noticed that some of the new growth on the dorsal fin was gone and that one bone was actually sticking clean out. Soon afterwards, during a water change, I accidentally came too close to the Betta and he startled and hit the tube quite hard. I think (though I'm not sure) that this is where the missing scales came from. He went down hill pretty quickly after this, going off his food about 7-9 days ago (at first he would take some and spit it out, then basically none, though he may have had a teeny bit of baby brine shrimp that basically fell into his mouth earlier tonight) and beginning to sit on the bottom of the tank soon thereafter. When he swims up for air he appears to swim fairly normally, but these trips have become shorter and shorter. It is possible that I missed it earlier, but I only noticed the swelling behind his gills about 2 days ago.

I went to the LFS this last Sunday. Given the invertebrates in the tank, and the fact that my only other tank is a betta bowl that I bought along with the Betta in July, we decided that a salt treatment would probably be the best way to start. But the salt does not seem to be helping.

My best guess is that the illness was caused by a combination of stress from the original injury, stress from the chilis/their removal, perhaps days of high nitrates (though unsure), and then perhaps contributed to or set off by that injury with the tube. I have been doing quite a few water changes, and doubt that there are high nitrates any longer, though I will likely go to the LFS tomorrow to test.

In any event, I am unsure of what (if anything) to do now. I think my main questions are whether treatment at this point has a real chance of success, and if so, what recommendations would be? I currently have the mystery snail in the Betta bowl (again, the Betta is in a ten gallon) as they don't do well with salt and the snail seems to be doing well with daily water changes in there; I could potentially move the Amanos and nerite in there as well and medicate the tank. If so, the question becomes with what/ for what? Is this swim bladder disease? Or advanced fin rot? I could also try even higher salt doses. On the other hand, if it seems unlikely that the Betta can recover, then it may also not be the best idea to begin stressing the remaining life in the tank with moves and perhaps the best thing would be to either put the Betta in the Betta bowl, add a heater (if that is even possible for a Betta Bowl), and medicate the Betta in the bowl?

Any and all thoughts are appreciated, and thank you very much!

 

First off, it is very important to test nitrite as well. That stuff is very toxic. Btw, the reason your nitrate was higher is likely because of your water change schedule. 25% once a week is better than every two weeks. Second of all, it sounds like you were over feeding. That can lead to all sorts of issues. I feed my bettas a small amount every other day. Your little guy looks bloated. This can happen due to overfeeding. Does he have any trouble swimming, or does he just seem tired? Don’t dose the whole tank with salt. I’ve never found it to be very effective. Instead, try doing a salt dip in a separate container with pure Epsom salt. Use Epsom, not aquarium salt for this. It’s been a while since I did a salt dip, so I’m not sure of the ratio. Maybe someone else could help you with that. I don’t see any signs of fin rot. It could be swim bladder disease, in which case the epsom salt dips would help immensely. This looks easily treatable, so I think he should be fine. I once brought a betta in much worse condition than this one back to full health, so I think he’ll make it through. And yes, I would keep him in the tank. No need to stress him out further by moving him. Finally, may I just say, I love your betta. I used to have a betta that looked just like him. His name was Ketchup. I lost him to a heater malfunction and miss him terribly. I hope your little guy gets better!

 

Tank

What is the water volume of the tank? 10 gallons
How long has the tank been running? 4 months
Does it have a filter? Yes
Does it have a heater? Yes
What is the water temperature? Usually 77/78 (moved it to 80 yesterday to see if that helps at all with the disease)
What is the entire stocking of this tank? (Please list all fish and inverts.) Now 1 betta/1 nerite/2 amano shrimp. Just before serious illness began also had 1 mystery snail and 10 chili rasbora

Maintenance
How often do you change the water? Prior to illness every 2 weeks. Have been changing much more frequently since.
How much of the water do you change? ~25 percent
What do you use to treat your water? Chlorine remover (have been using a stress coat/conditioner since illness began)
Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water? Water and debris on sand bed

*Parameters - Very Important
Did you cycle your tank before adding fish? Fish-in cycle with water changes and monitoring. The fish was the betta and he seemed fine throughout the cycle. Illness began ~1+ month after finish of the cycle.
What do you use to test the water? Ammonia test. During cycle was using 5 in one test strips as well for nitrites/nitrates etc..
What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”. I know this is not good/ideal, but I have only tested ammonia recently-- 0 PPM. Based on previous numbers from test strips pH should be about 8.0. Water is very hard, though I had been diluting with about 33% distilled water.

Ammonia: 0 PPM
Nitrite: When I tested 2 + months ago (tested from setting the tank up until shortly after cycle), was 0 PPM
Nitrate: "" At time was hard to tell exactly, but seemed to run between perhaps 10-50/60 (I would guess 20-40)
pH:""~8 (may be a bit lower now as a planted tank)

Feeding
How often do you feed your fish? Betta pellets and baby brine shrimp
How much do you feed your fish? 12-14 pellets a day.
What brand of food do you feed your fish? Tetra Betta Floating Mini Pellets
Do you feed frozen or freeze-dried foods? The baby brine shrimp were frozen--mostly were for the chilis but the betta ate these too.

Illness & Symptoms
How long have you had this fish? 4 months
How long ago did you first notice these symptoms? Severe ones began ~10-14 days ago
In a few words, can you explain the symptoms? Not eating, lying on bottom of tank. Also has swollen area behind gills. Fast breathing. Has what may be a damaged scales and damaged fins. (see attached photos)
Have you started any treatment for the illness? Salt at about 1.4 tablespoons for the tank
Was your fish physically ill or injured upon purchase? No
How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all ?Significant change--had been very outgoing and active.

Explain your emergency situation in detail. (Please give a clear explanation of what is going on, include details from the beginning of the illness leading up to now)

Betta is in rough shape. A bit of a long story, but as noted above, I bought the Betta at the same time as the tank (early July) and did a fish-in cycle. This is basically a Walstad-like tank (dirted substrate capped with sand) and I did regular water changes and tracked ammonia, nitrites, nitrates. Also used some bacteria-additive products. Ammonia numbers weren't super high and on only one day did I perhaps notice any sort of change in the Bettas behavior, which was always very outgoing/active (and even that was slight). The ammonia cycle was completed after 10-14 days, though nitrites lingered high for a while, which I later learned can happen with Walstad tanks. Took perhaps 1+ month to complete the whole cycle. A week or so after the cycle completed I added 6 chili rasboras. One died after a week or sobut the others did well and a month+ later I added 5 more. Also eventually had one mystery snail, one nerite snail, two amano shrimp.

About the time I added the 5 chili rasboras I noticed that part of the Bettas dorsal fin was gone. No fin nipping from the chilis, and I eventually came to the conclusion that it had caught in either the filter intake or on spiderwood in the tank. That was about late August and by mid-late September translucent finnage had grown back in (also on the caudal fin, which had apparently also had some damage that I hadn't noticed previously). By early October the fins were beginning to color back up and I thought the problem was solved.

In early October I added the final 5 chilis. The Betta's very occasional flaring/chasing of the first 5 chilis picked up pretty markedly soon after this. About two and a half weeks ago I noticed that the chilis were schooling very tightly together, counted them, and realized one was missing. Assumedly the Betta had eaten it. I then took the other 9 chilis back to the LFS that day. Catching them really messed the tank up quite a bit, lots of things moved around and lots of c*** stirred up from the bottom of the tank. The Betta acted OK for 3-4 days afterwards, but then I noticed that some of the new growth on the dorsal fin was gone and that one bone was actually sticking clean out. Soon afterwards, during a water change, I accidentally came too close to the Betta and he startled and hit the tube quite hard. I think (though I'm not sure) that this is where the missing scales came from. He went down hill pretty quickly after this, going off his food about 7-9 days ago (at first he would take some and spit it out, then basically none, though he may have had a teeny bit of baby brine shrimp that basically fell into his mouth earlier tonight) and beginning to sit on the bottom of the tank soon thereafter. When he swims up for air he appears to swim fairly normally, but these trips have become shorter and shorter. It is possible that I missed it earlier, but I only noticed the swelling behind his gills about 2 days ago.

I went to the LFS this last Sunday. Given the invertebrates in the tank, and the fact that my only other tank is a betta bowl that I bought along with the Betta in July, we decided that a salt treatment would probably be the best way to start. But the salt does not seem to be helping.

My best guess is that the illness was caused by a combination of stress from the original injury, stress from the chilis/their removal, perhaps days of high nitrates (though unsure), and then perhaps contributed to or set off by that injury with the tube. I have been doing quite a few water changes, and doubt that there are high nitrates any longer, though I will likely go to the LFS tomorrow to test.

In any event, I am unsure of what (if anything) to do now. I think my main questions are whether treatment at this point has a real chance of success, and if so, what recommendations would be? I currently have the mystery snail in the Betta bowl (again, the Betta is in a ten gallon) as they don't do well with salt and the snail seems to be doing well with daily water changes in there; I could potentially move the Amanos and nerite in there as well and medicate the tank. If so, the question becomes with what/ for what? Is this swim bladder disease? Or advanced fin rot? I could also try even higher salt doses. On the other hand, if it seems unlikely that the Betta can recover, then it may also not be the best idea to begin stressing the remaining life in the tank with moves and perhaps the best thing would be to either put the Betta in the Betta bowl, add a heater (if that is even possible for a Betta Bowl), and medicate the Betta in the bowl?

Any and all thoughts are appreciated, and thank you very much!

I would try fasting him. It seems as though you are overfeeding. I only feed 5-6 pellets to my betta and he is always well fed. The first thing that came to mind when I saw this was ammonia burn so maybe it is some sort of nitrite burn? I would say feed less and see if he improves. Good luck!

 

First off, it is very important to test nitrite as well. That stuff is very toxic. Btw, the reason your nitrate was higher is likely because of your water change schedule. 25% once a week is better than every two weeks. Second of all, it sounds like you were over feeding. That can lead to all sorts of issues. I feed my bettas a small amount every other day. Your little guy looks bloated. This can happen due to overfeeding. Does he have any trouble swimming, or does he just seem tired? Don’t dose the whole tank with salt. I’ve never found it to be very effective. Instead, try doing a salt dip in a separate container with pure Epsom salt. Use Epsom, not aquarium salt for this. It’s been a while since I did a salt dip, so I’m not sure of the ratio. Maybe someone else could help you with that. I don’t see any signs of fin rot. It could be swim bladder disease, in which case the epsom salt dips would help immensely. This looks easily treatable, so I think he should be fine. I once brought a betta in much worse condition than this one back to full health, so I think he’ll make it through. And yes, I would keep him in the tank. No need to stress him out further by moving him. Finally, may I just say, I love your betta. I used to have a betta that looked just like him. His name was Ketchup. I lost him to a heater malfunction and miss him terribly. I hope your little guy gets better!

Thank you very much for this! I had no idea that I was overfeeding (pellet instructions were 4-6 twice a day) by that much, very good to know. I was thinking swim bladder disease as well, but didn't know a salt dip could work. I'll check around for ratios, but if someone else has done this and knows, more info would be much appreciated.

And yes, he is a really cool fish. When he is healthy he moves constantly, eats from my hand, and is quite the fish. His movement was perhaps 2-3 times that of the other fish in the store when I bought him. And the blue undertones really show off when he 'struts'.

Again, thank you very much!

I would try fasting him. It seems as though you are overfeeding. I only feed 5-6 pellets to my betta and he is always well fed. The first thing that came to mind when I saw this was ammonia burn so maybe it is some sort of nitrite burn? I would say feed less and see if he improves. Good luck!

Thank you very much as well! He hasn't eaten for a week+, so though unintentional I think he is officially 'fasted.' But thank you, and that feeding amount is good to know--as I posted to Kribensis above, I didn't realize I was overfeeding by that much.

 

First off, it is very important to test nitrite as well. That stuff is very toxic. Btw, the reason your nitrate was higher is likely because of your water change schedule. 25% once a week is better than every two weeks. Second of all, it sounds like you were over feeding. That can lead to all sorts of issues. I feed my bettas a small amount every other day. Your little guy looks bloated. This can happen due to overfeeding. Does he have any trouble swimming, or does he just seem tired? Don’t dose the whole tank with salt. I’ve never found it to be very effective. Instead, try doing a salt dip in a separate container with pure Epsom salt. Use Epsom, not aquarium salt for this. It’s been a while since I did a salt dip, so I’m not sure of the ratio. Maybe someone else could help you with that. I don’t see any signs of fin rot. It could be swim bladder disease, in which case the epsom salt dips would help immensely. This looks easily treatable, so I think he should be fine. I once brought a betta in much worse condition than this one back to full health, so I think he’ll make it through. And yes, I would keep him in the tank. No need to stress him out further by moving him. Finally, may I just say, I love your betta. I used to have a betta that looked just like him. His name was Ketchup. I lost him to a heater malfunction and miss him terribly. I hope your little guy gets better!

I just did the first epsom salt dip. Do you happen to remember about how many you performed and whether there was an immediate improvement? He doesn't look very good right now after being put back in the main tank (I did about a 50% water change, so salt levels should be down quite a bit there)...Also, does the heavy respirating (with gills 'flaring' out) make sense if a swim bladder disorder?

*Edit: also, just got a picture of him. Good news is that the dorsal fin is erect for the first time in days (and the respirating may have lightened just a bit, hard to say) The regrowth on the dorsal fin looks fairly health I think? But what is that greyish/'dirty-looking' film that starts at the back of the dorsal fin and looks to connect almost to the caudal fin? Is that regrowth or fungus? I don't recall there originally being finnage there. (see attached photo)

 

I think I'm really reaching here, but given the bloat is there any chance this started with (assumedly) eating the chili rasbora? Though no idea why this would cause the gasping...

 

I just did the first epsom salt dip. Do you happen to remember about how many you performed and whether there was an immediate improvement? He doesn't look very good right now after being put back in the main tank (I did about a 50% water change, so salt levels should be down quite a bit there)...Also, does the heavy respirating (with gills 'flaring' out) make sense if a swim bladder disorder?

*Edit: also, just got a picture of him. Good news is that the dorsal fin is erect for the first time in days (and the respirating may have lightened just a bit, hard to say) The regrowth on the dorsal fin looks fairly health I think? But what is that greyish/'dirty-looking' film that starts at the back of the dorsal fin and looks to connect almost to the caudal fin? Is that regrowth or fungus? I don't recall there originally being finnage there. (see attached photo)

I did a salt dip once a day for around ten minutes each. Time varies based on amount of salt, but from what I’ve seen that’s a pretty average amount of time. With ten minute dips every day, he started showing signs of recovery after three dips. After about a week he could swim again, but weakly. After two weeks he was back to his normal self. The film between the dorsal and caudal fins could be fungus, but it looks like it still connects back to the dorsal fin. This means that it’s probably just odd looking new growth. Monitor it just in case, but I think it’ll be fine. Also, can I ask what ratio of salt you’re using? Just curious mostly. I want to see if this one works better than the one I used over time.

 

Thanks! Did yours have the heavy respirating as well?

I did some reading online and decided to go with one tablespoon Epsom Salt per gallon. I mixed one tablespoon into roughly a gallon (eyeballed a two gallon bucket I use for water changes). While this was going on I also did a 50% water change of the main tank to begin getting the water salinity back down. Yesterday I did about 18 minutes, but I think I will go with something closer to your 10, as he did seem to tire out a bit. The water I used for the dip was tap water yesterday, though I think I will mix half tank water and half tap water (conditioned of course) today to try to reduce stress.

 

Yes, mine also had the heavy breathing. It’s just from the stress of being pulled out of the tank and stuck in a container of salty water. As he gets more used to the dips, I think the heavy breathing will wear off faster. Your ratio sounds fairly similar to mine. I think reducing it to ten minutes will be beneficial.

 

Has taken a turn for the worse today unfortunately. Having much more trouble staying upright and swimming (saw him go to the surface just now and it was a major effort--I'm going to drain the tank some to make it easier). He was almost upside down earlier and I actually thought he was pineconing, though now that he is in a more natural position I can't see this. I think I'm going to get some clove oil in a bit and may even use today if this gets worse/continues. If anyone has any ideas, please do let me know! :-(

 

This sounds like the swim bladder disorder progressing. Just continue with the salt dips. Mine did this too, but was better soon after. Of course every fish is different in their recovery, but I think he can still pull through.

 

He passed. Was clear about an hour or so after I posted this morning that he was not going to make it. Even with a lowered water level he had trouble making the surface and began 's' swimming. Wound up lying in some moss with his gills barely moving and at that point I decided enough was enough.

Kribensis27, thank you so much for these posts and help. I think this method of treatment did give him the best chance of surviving--probably asked/began it just a bit too late. Don't know for sure the cause, but I think the fact that I write that after not having had anything to test water with (other than ammonia) for a 1.5 month stretch probably points to nitrate issues (other possibilities include stress/that injury) and is likely my fault. He had been the strongest Betta I have seen. RIP Biden the Betta.

 

I’m so sorry. It can be so hard to lose them. You did the best you could to save him. I’m sure he lived a happy life with you.

 

He passed. Was clear about an hour or so after I posted this morning that he was not going to make it. Even with a lowered water level he had trouble making the surface and began 's' swimming. Wound up lying in some moss with his gills barely moving and at that point I decided enough was enough.

Kribensis27, thank you so much for these posts and help. I think this method of treatment did give him the best chance of surviving--probably asked/began it just a bit too late. Don't know for sure the cause, but I think the fact that I write that after not having had anything to test water with (other than ammonia) for a 1.5 month stretch probably points to nitrate issues (other possibilities include stress/that injury) and is likely my fault. He had been the strongest Betta I have seen. RIP Biden the Betta.

I'm so sorry for your loss. SIP Biden the Betta